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[QUOTE=Chocha Monger] the next minute he's taking pleasure in advocating compliance with racist Thai attitudes towards dark skinned, wide flat nosed Isaan girls. [/QUOTE]
This has nothing to do with racism, it's more like "classism". If a Thai looks down on another Thai because he/she is dark it has nothing to do with race because they are all Thai. Try not to confuse the preference of white skin over black/dark skin in Thai society with racism. It has nothing to do with it.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger] Thais will assume that any native female with a white guy, or any other foreigner, is a prostitute or in it for a visa. [/QUOTE]
Do Thais feel the same way about the daughter of the big BOSS? Don't think she was a pro, or needed a visa!
[QUOTE=Fon Tok]I'm a well-educated, 50ish, bald, fat white guy from North America (sound familiar?)[/QUOTE]
They're going to love you in Pattaya then :D
(sorry... bad joke)
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Thais know why single male farangs come to their country. You can masquerade as an English teacher or whatever fits your fancy. They know you're there for the pussy just like all the others.[/QUOTE]
You're talking out of your ass
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]What is so difficult to understand? Well I can't seem to understand how a racist sex tourist cum sex expatriate can [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] and moan about being a victim of Thai racism and prejudice.[/QUOTE]
I'm not, nor have I ever been a sex tourist or sexpatriate. Nor, do I consider myself a racist. I've dated Thai women of all shades and from all kinds of backgrounds. It seems whenever I report the attitudes of Thais, it's assumed I'm secretly advocating those attitudes, while in fact, I'm merely explaining them.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]the next minute he's taking pleasure in advocating compliance with racist Thai attitudes towards dark skinned, wide flat nosed Isaan girls. He heaps ridicule on his fellow farang for bucking against Thai racial ignorance.....[/QUOTE]
I was actually suggesting in all of this that Farang guys should consider how the BG feels in an environment where she's not welcome and should take her somewhere where she is.
I don't give a toss what other Thais think, especially the snobs who populate Emporium and Paragon.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Thais will assume that any native female with a white guy, or any other foreigner, is a prostitute or in it for a visa. Thais know why single male farangs come to their country. You can masquerade as an English teacher or whatever fits your fancy. They know you're there for the pussy just like all the others.[/QUOTE]
1/ a)Thais assume when they see a Farang with some tarted-up TG covered in tatoos, wearing cheap clothes and walking and talking like a ho, (even if she has white skin), that she's (quite rightly) a ho.
b)If they see a Farang with a well-dressed, well-bahaved, and well-spoken TG, they might still make those assumptions if she has dark skin and looks Isaan. That isn't my prejudice. That's theirs, and it's just a fact.
c)If they see a Farang with a well-dressed, well-behaved, and well-spoken TG with white skin, especially if she's Thai-Chinese, they would very unlikely assume she's a hooker (although, she still might be...just a high-class one).
With the proliferation of foreign students, especially from the West studying in International programs, most of whom are dating TGs, Thais have become far more accustomed to seeing mixed dating, without automatically assuming the girl is P4P.
2/ Not a lowly English teacher. I'd rather have a labotomy, than be one of those.
3/I came to Thailand to work. My first job here was at The Nation. I knew little, if anything about P4P here before I arrived. It has never been a factor in my staying. Although, my long-term relationships with regular TGs has been a factor and a legitimate reason to stay. BTW, none of them were P4P or in it for the visa.
Based on your declarative rant here, it would appear that you have a very narrow perspective on Thailand and are another example of several simple-minded morons who have recently taken up residence on ISG.
While we seldom agree, and I do think that he has it in for me sometimes, (but all's fair in love and war) I respect someone like Run Mann, as an intelligent and worthy opponent. Ditto for Opebo, although many on here don't like him.
Sadly, for every one of them, there are a dozen like you.
[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]They're going to love you in Pattaya then :D
(sorry... bad joke)[/QUOTE]Nic: That's funny. Did you stay up all night oiling your pet worm and thinking about me? ;)
Despite old age, a big stomach, and a chrome dome, I get plenty of love most places I go. And funny thing, some of it's free.
Never been to Pattaya, though! Might have to check it out one of these days.
You have a good weekend...
[QUOTE=Mortman]"The UK and Europe have loads of former bargirls married to (most often) working-class geezers providing them with a life, (far from the dream-life they expected) of loneliness, mediocrity and freezing their tits off in crappy weather."
Never a truer word spoken. I know several bar girls who married and moved over to the UK. It is not only the crap weather but the fact that these guys cannot support them in the way that the girls expected. What the bar girls fail to realise is that many of the tourists visiting them for an annual two week holiday spend the year before hand saving for the trip. They hold down low paid jobs with some living off welfare benefits (though how they afford to go to LOS is anyone's guess) To the girls these guys appear very affluent not realising that their escape to a better life means living on some council estate in a dingy apartment, where money is sparse and trips back to see their family few and far between. In fact quite a few of the thai ex WG's in the UK find themselves working back in their old trade just to make ends meet and many of the marriages do not last. That is not to say that some of the marriages do work, but they tend to be with guys who can afford to send their girl home a few times each year to visit family and who have a decent income/nice home. Having cable with Thai TV also helps![/QUOTE]
Statistically, UK marriage success/failure rates between Brits and Thais run at around 50%, which is the same as the national average for the [i]whole[/i] adult population.
I expect we all know a few stories of Brit marriages to Thai women in the UK going tits-up and some of the women returning to type and going working in knocking shops. But the notion of large numbers of Thai women working in the UK prostitution biz is an urban myth. My own experience of years of extensively using Greater Manchester's massage parlours (Manchester is the massage parlour capital of Europe due to a long-time police tolerance policy btw) was that there were never more than a few Thai women working in them at any given time and most of these tended to be the same faces over lengthy periods of that time. This in a city that has over 3000 Thai residents, mostly female.
I linked to an excellent report by the Runnymede Trust about Thais living in the UK in a similar discussion with OTH a couple of years ago. It covers most aspects, including how Thais adapt and settle. The conclusion seems to be that many do, but not without difficulties. It's a long report. But this type of info is how we become informed rather than just repeating what we heard down the pub, in the back of a taxi or from a couple of acquaintances:
[url]http://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/file/EmpoweringIndividualsCreatingCommunity-2008.pdf[/url]
[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]Statistically, UK marriage success/failure rates between Brits and Thais run at around 50%, which is the same as the national average for the [i]whole[/i] adult population.
I expect we all know a few stories of Brit marriages to Thai women in the UK going tits-up and some of the women returning to type and going working in knocking shops. But the notion of large numbers of Thai women working in the UK prostitution biz is an urban myth. My own experience of years of extensively using Greater Manchester's massage parlours (Manchester is the massage parlour capital of Europe due to a long-time police tolerance policy btw) was that there were never more than a few Thai women working in them at any given time and most of these tended to be the same faces over lengthy periods of that time. This in a city that has over 3000 Thai residents, mostly female.
I linked to an excellent report by the Runnymede Trust about Thais living in the UK in a similar discussion with OTH a couple of years ago. It covers most aspects, including how Thais adapt and settle. The conclusion seems to be that many do, but not without difficulties. It's a long report. But this type of info is how we become informed rather than just repeating what we heard down the pub, in the back of a taxi or from a couple of acquaintances:
[url]http://www.runnymedetrust.org/uploads/file/EmpoweringIndividualsCreatingCommunity-2008.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]
I agree with you because you've supplied empirical evidence in the past.
My original reference was general, although I actually was thinking more about Europe and had certain countries in mind, like Germany, for example. There's a park, (I believe in Frankfurt) that's quite well-known as a place where all the ex-BG wives of working-class Germans meet up to eat som tam and whinge about their miserable lives living in gray bunkers, having to deal with dour German mothers-in-law, all the while longing for home and warmer climes. Germany has miserable, cold winters, passable, but wet Springs, tepid summers, and gusty, rainy Autumns, not to mention the Germans themselves, who aren't exactly the most welcoming people on earth, (sorry Giotto). How, in God's name could a TG ever be happy there? There are worse places, of course for unsuspecting starry-eyed BGs to end up. Stockholm? (boring fucking city full of miserable, suicidal Swedes). Helsinki? (even more fucking boring than Stockhom and full of even more miserable, suicidal Finns). I once knew a TG who went to Finland (afterall, "isn't that where Nokia is?", she asked before she left) and it so undid her psyche, that after 3 years there, she was never the same happy-go-lucky girl, I knew before.
As miserable as England can be, at least the Brits are generally a fun lot and good for a laugh. But, any time I hear a TG say she's got a BF in Western Europe and wants to move there, I cringe. They simply have no idea what they're getting into.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
... I knew little, if anything about P4P here before I arrived....[/QUOTE]
Gosh, is this really true? Must have led a very sheltered life beforehand then to be one of the few guys in the western hemisphere to be unaware of the p4p scene in Thailand! Must have been a big shock when you arrived and discovered it:eek: Guess that you immediately joined ISG to protest!!
[QUOTE=Terry Terrier] My own experience of years of extensively using Greater Manchester's massage parlours (Manchester is the massage parlour capital of Europe due to a long-time police tolerance policy btw) was that there were never more than a few Thai women working in them at any given time and most of these tended to be the same faces over lengthy periods of that time. This in a city that has over 3000 Thai residents, mostly female.
[/QUOTE]
This is maybe because they all moved to Northampton to do business. Place is full of Thai hookers. I think that the council is thinking of renaming one of the main red light thoroughfares Sukhumvit, in their honour. Anybody unfortunate enough to be passing through that godforsaken place can enjoy a real thai soapy massage experience at [url]http://www.thaipalacemassage.co.uk/[/url]. Nikki is particularly to be recommended. But cheap it 'aint (about 6T for an hour).
[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Gosh, is this really true? Must have led a very sheltered life beforehand then to be one of the few guys in the western hemisphere to be unaware of the p4p scene in Thailand! Must have been a big shock when you arrived and discovered it:eek: Guess that you immediately joined ISG to protest!![/QUOTE]
Thailand's image as a sex tourist destination only really took off with the popularity of the Internet and sites like ISG in recent years. When I arrived in Asia in '96 few people, even in the US were using the Internet. While very marginally aware of what was happening here, I still doubt my ignorance was particularly exclusive, back then. Nobody in the West knew much about Thailand in any way in those days, even horny, sex-starved Western guys.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Thailand's image as a sex tourist destination only really took off with the popularity of the Internet and sites like ISG in recent years. When I arrived in Asia in '96 few people, even in the US were using the Internet. While very marginally aware of what was happening here, I still doubt my ignorance was particularly exclusive, back then. Nobody in the West knew much about Thailand in any way in those days, even horny, sex-starved Western guys.[/QUOTE]
Totally disagree with that statement. I'm not that old and live in a sheltered area in the middle of no where and even my society knew of Thai and other Asian countries where prostitution was liberal to say it kindly. We do not even have have good internet only dial up and very limited at that. So internet did nothing for that.
And if you were military then everyone knew of SE Asia as a good port of call.
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Thailand's image as a sex tourist destination only really took off with the popularity of the Internet and sites like ISG in recent years. When I arrived in Asia in '96 few people, even in the US were using the Internet. While very marginally aware of what was happening here, I still doubt my ignorance was particularly exclusive, back then. Nobody in the West knew much about Thailand in any way in those days, even horny, sex-starved Western guys.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I must totally disagree with you there for your statement is utter nonsense. Thailand first took off as a well known sex destination during the Vietnam War when sex starved grunts took their R&R there way back in the 60's and 70's. When they left the vacuum was soon filled with sex tourists from the west and later East Asia. I had heard of Thailand's notoriety way back in the early 80's but didn't have the opportunity to visit until 1985, when like most first timers, I thought that I had died and gone to paradise. The only place missing then, in situ now, was Nana Plaza which first opened for business in 88 or 89. Everything else, Patpong (then the main p4p bar area), Soi Cowboy, Thermae, Beer Garden, Pattaya were all thriving and full of punters. Just the same as now although there was not the sheer numbers or the clinical professionalism of the girls that we find today. And we all went bareback:eek:
[QUOTE=Gamahucher] but didn't have the opportunity to visit until 1985...
And we all went bareback[/QUOTE]
I envy you! Sounds like the good ole days!
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I respect someone like Run Mann, as an intelligent and worthy opponent. Ditto for Opebo, although many on here don't like him.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the kind thought, sir.
Actually I don't entirely disagree with your views, or your taste (I like various types, but the high-end white-skinned do have their appeal). And any skepticism I have regarding denials of sex-tourist status apply to all foreigners in this country, not just your good self.
[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Yes, I must totally disagree with you there for your statement is utter nonsense. Thailand first took off as a well known sex destination during the Vietnam War when sex starved grunts took their R&R there way back in the 60's and 70's. When they left the vacuum was soon filled with sex tourists from the west and later East Asia. I had heard of Thailand's notoriety way back in the early 80's but didn't have the opportunity to visit until 1985, when like most first timers, I thought that I had died and gone to paradise. The only place missing then, in situ now, was Nana Plaza which first opened for business in 88 or 89. Everything else, Patpong (then the main p4p bar area), Soi Cowboy, Thermae, Beer Garden, Pattaya were all thriving and full of punters. Just the same as now although there was not the sheer numbers or the clinical professionalism of the girls that we find today. And we all went bareback:eek:[/QUOTE]
Yes I can remember being in Bangkok in approx. 1984.
I managed to find some Soapy establishment with large fishbowl, possibly called the Golden Gate. I was very scared to fuck the Thai girl even though she was gorgeous, because I didn't have any condoms and wasn't sure if they had diseases or not like Herpes, Siphilis, Gonorreah etc.
Found another Soapy in Chiangmai and had my first body slide.
In Patong beach Phuket, we already had a street with a hundred bars. Old guys were going round with young girls hanging off the arm, some who wore singlets and no bra showing off dark nipples.
To say that there was little sex tourism would be ridiculous.
Some ladyboys on the beach in Patong too.
I guess sex tourism would have stepped up a lot after Vietnam war, but Soapy MPs were available for Thai customers for who knows how long.
About 17 years ago I commenced to study Thai Language.
Then started trips to Thailand with mongering at Soapies like the Thermae and bars of Soi Cowboy for many years before I ever used the internet in connection with Thailand or became aware of the ISG.
Got first non P4P Thai GF about 14 years ago. A great character girl, but was still sexually frustrated.
So the internet just didn't seem to be relevant.
OTH probably wasn't aware of that infamous dictionary that described Bangkok as a place with many hookers, many years back.