General Reports

[QUOTE=Smoothy;2444951]That's the best expert advice according to who? To the people who don't give a shit about the world economy and are willing to have lock down for years? If you live in a dream fantasy world, then that is a possibility. But here in the real world, all that will do is cause the 2nd great depression while the corona cases are stretched out ad infinitum. They will not go to zero even with the lock down. People will die of starvation (especially in third world countries), suicide or drug abuse from depression, etc if they can't earn money.

Sweden most likely did it the right way. Get it over and done with as quickly as possible rather than kill the economy and let it go on for years. We will see in the long run.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Dena0;2444912]A change in our way of life is inexorably dawning upon all of us. At some point in the future <say, under three years , the virus will eventually mutate its way out of our lives. The question is how long will it take and how much of our herd will it cull. As somebody else pointed out in this forum, Sweden is no success story. Until now, the best expert advice seems to be that in the face of the power of exponential contact, the name of the game is social isolation to a point where we reach fourteen consecutive days with zero new cases anywhere in the world. Does not seem likely to happen from what we can see right now.

Having said that, I suspect Natty's pov (which is a mild variant of Trump's pov) will prevail in the short term and as a result, we will likely see another round of surge in the reported cases and the social isolation lockdown process might have to be repeated. Trump's position is hugely influenced by his perception of electoral impact (and to hell with the rest).[/QUOTE]Here's a quote from a Swedish newspaper referring to New York Times:

"In several European countries, data show that around 20-30 percent more people died during the period under. Investigation than normal, the New York Times review shows.

In Spain, 19,700 more deaths were registered than normal during the period 9 March to 5 April, and 12,401. Were confirmed deaths in covid-19. In France, 10,500 more deaths were registered than normal, and 8,059 were cases of covid-19.

Sweden stands out in the magazine's review, with 1,100 more deaths than normal between March 9 and April 12. Compared with 1,160 registered cases of covid-19 during the period."

It does not prove that the Swedish method is good but it shows that the data of deaths related to corona preseted by government in Sweden are accurate. Other countries data may differ as much as 40% from the true amount of covid 19 deaths.

In a month or two there will be reliable data of increase of death to show the real outcome of this pandemic. But when looking at that dataset you have to consider other effects on the number of deaths. For example the lockdown strategies will certainly decrease other causes of unnatural death such as deaths of traffic accidents, deaths in ordinary flu and other contagious diseases, deaths referred to air pollution and maybe also increase of deaths from domestic violence.

[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2445372]Just another non-factual opinion?

Based on my opinion about Thailand, the government, culture, and economy I more in the camp things will retract how far is anyone guess? When you look at what the Virus has done to the USA And its economy compare it to Thailand which years ago I read something like 20% of the population actually pay taxes and that is being very liberal. Living here especially in Pattaya from my experience and environment I feel that is a pretty accurate assessment that the majority are poor and this Virus situation has really brought out how poor.

When it comes to the GoGo which I'm a big fan I for some time felt there needed to be some type of correction and this Virus is doing just that. I kind of sense where it was going when foreigners started to group and pool their money to try to monopolize the business especially in Pattaya. I don't have a problem with paying for the service if it is based on normal economics things get more expensive to operate but many of the problems were self-induced in my opinion by these ownerships justifying prices by placing labels like Models, Agency then with the decline of service personally I'm not the type that expects out of the world experience but having to pay premium money and only get attitude and head games?.[/QUOTE]Its great to be retired. Its great to have an apartment in Siem Reap. Its great to have money. Open up those borders, or hell, open up the clubs here! I'm an hour away!

This virus story is starting to become completely delusional. Everyday seems like a crazy day.

The virus would have escaped from a poorly managed Wuhan laboratory (which was still considered a conspiracy theory a few days ago), the effects are accumulating and seem much more serious than a simple flu, there is also neuroligic impacts. No vaccine in sight soon and I learn in the newspapers today that there is no vaccine for the 7 known types of human coronavirus. The only vaccines that exist just boost the immune system. People no longer come for treatment because they are afraid of getting coronavirus from the doctor.

We are told to stay at home but also that the virus must be widespread to have collective immunity because we have no treatment. How do we do to have immunity if we stay home ?

Japan, which had reopened the schools, is closing them again. Singapore is restarting the lockdown.

A few days ago you were paid to pick up the barrels of oil that clogged the passage.

The resumption of flights from Europe to BKK recently scheduled for May 1 has once again been postponed to May 18. No return to normal expected before the end of 2021.

The bad economic figures are piling up, the debt is starting to become obese, the stock market is freezing, even the robots are hesitating.

Everyone freaks out, nobody knows what to do, do we stop the lockdown? We stay confined?

I feel like I'm in Disney's Space Montain attraction.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2445647]The virus would have escaped from a poorly managed Wuhan laboratory (which was still considered a conspiracy theory a few days ago)[/QUOTE]And is still a conspiracy theory (as is the Chinese version of this which is that the US Consulate in Wuhan released it).

I say conspiracy theory, I should use the scientific term for such conjectures, which is "complete and utter bollocks".

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2445662]as is the Chinese version of this which is that the US Consulate in Wuhan released it.[/QUOTE]So if it is the Chinese version, it's probably true.

Did the US consulate read this too? : ". On February 16, Chinese state media also reported deficiencies. They claimed in particular that researchers threw laboratory materials down the drain, after experimentation and without having subjected them to the specific treatment intended for biological discharges. They also recalled that a number of researchers, to make ends meet, were selling laboratory animals that had undergone experiments in the markets of Wuhan. ".

LE Figaro - 04/20/2020.

[QUOTE=GettingFedUp;2445662]And is still a conspiracy theory (as is the Chinese version of this which is that the US Consulate in Wuhan released it).

I say conspiracy theory, I should use the scientific term for such conjectures, which is "complete and utter bollocks".[/QUOTE]For me most likely it is not man made and it's origins are similar to SARS and MERS but its not impossible it came from the lab.

Like most "news" nowadays what one believes depends on what one reads or listens to. If there is a political dimension which there most certainly is in the US with Covid-19 what you believe can often depend on ideology rather than science.

The US blames China, China retaliates by blaming the US. For me, China most certainly screwed up their initial response when it was critically important to contain the spread and we are all paying the price now.

On the other hand it is not a Chinese virus, virus's have origins but not nationalities.

Anyway it's all the f**king same where it came from or who is to blame, it's here and it's one big pain the ass that doesn't look like it going away anytime soon.

[QUOTE=Eloket;2445610]Here's a quote from a Swedish newspaper referring to New York Times:

"In several European countries, data show that around 20-30 percent more people died during the period under. Investigation than normal, the New York Times review shows.

In Spain, 19,700 more deaths were registered than normal during the period 9 March to 5 April, and 12,401. Were confirmed deaths in covid-19. In France, 10,500 more deaths were registered than normal, and 8,059 were cases of covid-19.

Sweden stands out in the magazine's review, with 1,100 more deaths than normal between March 9 and April 12. Compared with 1,160 registered cases of covid-19 during the period."

It does not prove that the Swedish method is good but it shows that the data of deaths related to corona preseted by government in Sweden are accurate. Other countries data may differ as much as 40% from the true amount of covid 19 deaths.

In a month or two there will be reliable data of increase of death to show the real outcome of this pandemic. But when looking at that dataset you have to consider other effects on the number of deaths. For example the lockdown strategies will certainly decrease other causes of unnatural death such as deaths of traffic accidents, deaths in ordinary flu and other contagious diseases, deaths referred to air pollution and maybe also increase of deaths from domestic violence.[/QUOTE]In coming months countries will have an important decision to make: either no lockdown like Sweden or allow their economies to be further ruined.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2445695]In coming months countries will have an important decision to make: either no lockdown like Sweden or allow their economies to be further ruined.[/QUOTE]Lock downs stop transmission and save lives. Lock downs cause economic hardship especially where there is ineffective government intervention by way of compensatory payouts. Lock downs for most people are emotionally and physically oppressive.

Whenever reopening's start no matter how good social distancing, wearing masks, sanitizing measures work more people will die as a result, the virus is still out there. That's the reality until a vaccine is found.

So where is the point where the trade off in lives meets the requirement for life to return to some semblance of normality, where we can travel, go have a beer, a meal, get a massage have our hair cut, work out at the gym etc etc.

The so called herd immunity response which seems to be the thinking behind the Swedish model and which was the original response in the UK doesn't seem at least so far to have any basis in reality as it would require in excess of 50% infection rates.

You are correct dude. It's f**king complicated.

[QUOTE=Pimpampoumpipo;2445647]This virus story is starting to become completely delusional. Everyday seems like a crazy day.[/QUOTE]Based on Thailand numbers, you're not wrong. I was taking a walk around Sukhumvit last evening around 6 pm, and everything seems normal. People were coming from their offices, traffic was enough (not as usual ofcourse) and girls were standing around typical pickup-points.

Won't be long before all those girls left starts to come back.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2445691]For me most likely it is not man made and it's origins are similar to SARS and MERS but its not impossible it came from the lab.

Like most "news" nowadays what one believes depends on what one reads or listens to. If there is a political dimension which there most certainly is in the US with Covid-19 what you believe can often depend on ideology rather than science.

The US blames China, China retaliates by blaming the US. For me, China most certainly screwed up their initial response when it was critically important to contain the spread and we are all paying the price now.

On the other hand it is not a Chinese virus, virus's have origins but not nationalities.

Anyway it's all the f**king same where it came from or who is to blame, it's here and it's one big pain the ass that doesn't look like it going away anytime soon.[/QUOTE]The world has learnt an important lesson. In future, wherever there is a similar outbreak other countries will immediately prevent nationals from that country from entering their countries. Could you imagine if in December all countries prevented people from China from entering their countries then now we would all be enjoying the company of our favorite hotties all around the world, except China of course.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2445934]The world has learnt an important lesson. In future, wherever there is a similar outbreak other countries will immediately prevent nationals from that country from entering their countries. Could you imagine if in December all countries prevented people from China from entering their countries then now we would all be enjoying the company of our favorite hotties all around the world, except China of course.[/QUOTE]What about expats living in China who may have been exposed to the virus? Should they have been denied the opportunity to come home? I know some countries have forbidden even their own citizens from returning from "hot zones", but this has traditionally been repugnant in the USA where citizens by law cannot be denied entry. And under the right circumstances, lawful permanent residents must be permitted to enter as well. Plenty of other countries approach this like the USA does. In fact, not letting your citizens return is the exception versus the rule. This is a reality that cannot be ignored. In this super connected world, as long as this kind of movement is allowed to happen, then stopping "people from China" from entering is not going to be some fail safe approach to blocking spread of this very contagious virus. Some of those people are not Chinese citizens, but citizens from countries around the globe. And, their governments will let them come back home if they want to, and even arrange for flights to help make that happen. And with that, the virus is going to spread.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2445934]Could you imagine if in December all countries prevented people from China from entering their countries then now we would all be enjoying the company of our favorite hotties all around the world, except China of course.[/QUOTE]Absolutely! I went to Pattaya in February and China was already confined. I went immediately to immigration control because there were no queues. At some of the counters the police were waiting there were no passengers.

Heaven.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2445934]The world has learnt an important lesson. In future, wherever there is a similar outbreak other countries will immediately prevent nationals from that country from entering their countries. Could you imagine if in December all countries prevented people from China from entering their countries then now we would all be enjoying the company of our favorite hotties all around the world, except China of course.[/QUOTE]Of course there are many foreigners living, visiting or transiting China. It pretty difficult to prevent them returning to their home countries, especially when up to 50% show now symptoms when affected. The big difference between this and previous scares is that this virus is highly contagious. Once the genies was out of the bottle it was not going back in.

[QUOTE=Turgid;2445934]Could you imagine if in December all countries prevented people from China from entering their countries then now we would all be enjoying the company of our favorite hotties all around the world, except China of course.[/QUOTE]Absolutely! I went to Pattaya in February and China was already confined. I went immediately to immigration control because there were no queues. At some of the counters the police were waiting there were no passengers.

Heaven.

[QUOTE=Franciscass;2445691]On the other hand it is not a Chinese virus, virus's have origins but not nationalities.[/QUOTE]Which is precisely why I have no problem calling this the Chinese Virus or Wuhan Virus. It's about the origin. Bill Maher said it best in the link below.

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEfDwc2G2_8[/URL]