Moscow

[QUOTE=Ash1001]

Dr Skank's here for work.

But for the rest of us, surely Samara, Volgograd and Novgorod are the places to be?

All big cities good looking girls haven't the snooty-arsed attitude.
And MUCH lower prices.

FSU is poor and full of hotties.

Its odd to go to the ONLY place that's actually richer than the West to get girls 'cheaply'.

I can't quite figure it out.

[/QUOTE]

Because its not true. Nobody's going to Moscow for cheap, anymore. And in the provinces, its not as cheap as you think, at least not now. Sure, starting prices are much lower, but that usually comes with all the restrictions and rules. 2 hours will be 3000 rubles, but that doesn't mean you'll get GFE treatment. You want GFE, BBBJ, fotos, etc., you'll probably need to throw in another $50 to $100. And anal is still rare. So when you start asking for everything extra, its not a low price anymore. But in comparison, you can usually get anything, for what is now around the Moscow starting prices. But then again, you find the right girl with the right attitude, and you quickly forget about money.

As far as the other places to be, trust me when I tell you, that it all depends on the girl. There is definitely snooty attitude in the other cities, though its all about how pretty the girls look. I had opportunities to meet as many girls as I had time to, though like I already said, they're all working or in Institutes, so they limit when they'll meet you to 17:00 to about 19:00. That's the first problem, when you have to figure out how to squeeze 2 or 3 meetings into 2 hours! It does get tricky!

But the real issue is that most of them that are interested to meet, are not hot. They're just plain janes, nothing special, and certainly not up to my standards. Maybe the rest of you are not picky, and will fuck anything with a hole and a heartbeat, but I won't.

Yes, of course I did meet A FEW super hot ones. If you keep up a furious pace and devote maximum time to this effort, in a 2 week period, its always going to happen. BUT these are the girls with the attitude. Not necessarily snootiness, but basically impossible to get into bed unless you have more than a few weeks. On my last 3 trips, the hottest of all the models/students I met, were more than happy to go to cafe's, even come to my flat, but would not put out. The hottest one, I tried offering her "big" money, but she kept saying about her boyfirned. In these cases, though I should know better than to waste too much time on them on second and thrid dates without them starting to show promise, they are just so fucking hot, I let myself be fooled into thinking something will develop, but it doesn't. When I think back about the last girl, a med student who was too cute to believe, she dressed to kill when we met, but was so sweet and friendly, I decided against offering her a bunch of cash, and just pursued her as a serious relationship. Now that I think back, the way she was dressed when we met, maybe she was expecting a big sponsorship. I should have learned by now, that these girls aren't really offended when you propose to be their sponsor, they're SO hot that they must get offers from locals with money too. So if they do turn it down, then you just apologize and its forgotten. At least I think.

At the next level are the girls who are NOT dressing up to show off how hot they are, so on first glance, they look kind of pretty, just not really hot. These girls ARE doable. Dressed plainly, you really can't tell what's hiding underneath, but when they show you, they have great tits and nice asses. They're just modest about their looks, therefore NO attitude. These are the ones that make it worth all the hassles. The problem is that for every one of these girls, I meet about 7 others that are the plain jane type that are either chubby or too homely to waste my time, because I know that there's always the chance to meet a cutie, an hour or two later.

I don't know about you guys, but I just have to draw a line somewhere, and not settle for mediocrity, when siginificant talent is out there waiting to be found.

[QUOTE=Lukasek]
Hello Piper1,

could you please explain better what happened to your friend? If he did some mistakes or if he was just unlucky or what exactly?

I guess when you live there, together the chance to get much more pussy, you increase the risk to get some troubles too, for example it is enough to make jealous a wrong girl that one of her friends or brother or so on,can give you problems.[/QUOTE]He was unusually vague on the details, as he told me the story while my wife was with us. He said it was a mugging or maybe a racist bashing. I do know he's overly-confident and sometimes pushy in approaching girls in clubs, coffee shops, on campus, on the street, anywhere. Maybe he rubbed up a boyfriend the wrong way. Maybe it was because he was an Arab in a small Russian town (Petrovodstok - pardon my spelling).

Skank and Bez, thanks for the perspectives.

Bez, I'm not an expert in the Russian market, being a frequent visitor to Kiev and Ukraine's provinces, but I think the exact relationship between a girl's attractiveness and market price is not so tightly defined. I've met beautiful girls who really want to spend time getting to know you and don't mind if the dates you take them on are $10 ones at a coffee shop. And somewhat chubby ones who won't settle for anything less than 'true love', which they define financially as an allowance of $3000 per month :) (Kiev prices). I don't need to say this, but it's all about getting lucky.

I personally think that all women classify men into 2 types: the reliable provider (the type that would be suitable for marriage, sponsor or generous boyfriend) with whom they will delay having sex, and the exciting 'bad boy', with whom they'd love to have a one night stand but can't be sure if he'll ever phone after the event.

What probably distinguishes Skank (and maybe a few others on this site) is the ability to come across as the second type, which opens to doors to no-strings freebie action, often shortly after the initial approach. I think that until we've really honed our 'game' to the stage where we're percieved this way - and, I suppose, believe it ourselves - it will be a case of mentally juggling the time and financial costs of getting a girl to say yes with the price of p4p.

True, going to a Russian provincial city will cost you less once you're there, but the extra travelling and less developed p4p market will waste more of your time. As a consultant who charges a daily rate, every day I'm not at work costs me dear so I'm probably best off arriving in Moscow on a Friday, doing an NF girl that night, a CF girl the next night and going home Sunday :) I'm beginning to lose any sense of pride about getting it more 'wholesomely' with a freebie. I'm just going to look at the Quality / (Time x Cost) ratio.

For those of you interested in what (some) Russian ladies in London are up to, and fancy a laugh, read this article: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=458832&in_page_id=1879[/url]

If any guy thinks he can get top quality for free, he's kidding himself :)

[QUOTE=Ash1001]Skank and Bez, thanks for the perspectives.

I personally think that all women classify men into 2 types: the reliable provider (the type that would be suitable for marriage, sponsor or generous boyfriend) with whom they will delay having sex, and the exciting 'bad boy', with whom they'd love to have a one night stand but can't be sure if he'll ever phone after the event.

What probably distinguishes Skank (and maybe a few others on this site) is the ability to come across as the second type, which opens to doors to no-strings freebie action, often shortly after the initial approach.

For those of you interested in what (some) Russian ladies in London are up to, and fancy a laugh, read this article: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=458832&in_page_id=1879[/url]

If any guy thinks he can get top quality for free, he's kidding himself :)[/QUOTE]

There's definitely a degree of truth to that and it is advantageous to be perceived as mischevious/bad/unpredicatable/exciting in my experience. It's so self-evident that it's like autopilot for me when I am in my good phases. When in a dry spell, I usually discover that I am trying too hard and overpursuing.

Be bad, but don't be rude. Rude they don't like, but they do like games. I often find it's easier to get 3 or 4 girls essentially at the same time as it is to just get one you focus on.

When juggling 3 or 4 you are cool... you don't answer SMSs immediately, you don't desperately pursue dates and you don't overdote. This sparks their interest.

Girls like to be chased... but only to a degree. They also like to chase a bit too. Don't make it to easy on them, they lose interest if you are too interested.

This of course applies mainly to the casual type relationship. If she is looking for something more serious and you've already headed down that road, she'll lap up as much attention as you can give her. There is no point holding back then... if you want the same thing. I've BTDT and it has it's rewards... but being an EE junkie I know it's virtually impossible to stay faithful to one woman there. A closet romantic, I don't count out the possibility entirely and have met a few girls worthy of a serious commitment, but there is just too much temptation. Most EE vets and especially expats living in EE say the same to me.

A lot of my girls were initially interested in something more than just casual sex, but I try to establish early on that only a casual relationship is possible... mentioning that I travel a lot, not denying having other girls in other cities etc. Most go for it anyway. Makes things easier in the long run. And the number that have regular boyfriends on the side and still fuck me is disturbing. Makes me wonder how common that kind of stuff is. Maybe an advantage being foreign in that aspect, taking the role of their sex toy or "fuck friend" as they put it.

One thing that definitely scores big time for me is that I can go from bad boy to sentimental guy in a heartbeat. Switching gears goes a long way with them, both in conversation, flirting and in bed. Keeps them guessing. And despite any of their faults, Russian women are very emotional and passionate. Don't ignore these aspects. And they are great conversationalists. If you can get them into a conversation and break down any defensive barriers they have, that'll usually lead to sex if you play your cards right. Most women have admitted to me that being able to talk to a guy is important to them. It's definitely not the only thing and not sure where it actually ranks in importance, but they often mention it. Go figure. :)

Most of all though, you have to find things that work for you. Some guys employ methods very successfully that don't work for me at all and vice-versa.... it's all relative.

All the "strategy talk" is useful and fun on a superficial basis, but ultimately you are face-to-face with her alone and it comes down to adapting your game accordingly. Every girl is different as is every guy. And keep the initiative on your side.

Thanks for the article on London BTW. That's horrible... and there are girls like that in Moscow too obviously. What I hate the most is the probing/demeaning "is money a problem for you?" question. High-priced *****s like to ask it too. Suki.

Those women deserve a polite response like:
"Is fitting my fat cock in your ass a problem for you b1tch?"

Nothing a bit of lube can't fix... :)

If you want to be out of money you gan just sponsor this teen...

[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/dev_ll444/[/url]

Taskent, but I think if you are rich enough she will come to Moscow... simply incredible, an 18teen just out from the high school and look at some pics..

I think if you sponsor such a girl (it would be so for me in any case) you would be with no work and completely out of money in some months...

IT

PS But if you are a Russian billionare... she can be a benefit for one of your directors :(

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]Dear Guy, now good girls in Russia suddenly began to believe in family values. Life is getting better, girls want to multiply, to be loved and cared for. Almost no decent girls want just to fuck (especially to become a free-fuck-friend of a foreigner who may any moment disappear). Even escorts this year began to believe in family values, can you imagine? It seems to be the trend. Russian women no more want to invest their precious life-time in temporary things (though I don't know too much about distant villages, but can speak about Moscow). So for honest guys there are still 2 save possibilities: to pay or to marry. For honest+brave ones there is one more: to approach a girl you like and honestly inform her that you want to fuck her. Then to hear the answer. If you find the one who agrees, post about your experience, this will be really interesting. If you don't worn the girl about your plans she will automatically consider you searching for serious relatioships and when she discovers your real plans (very fast) you are very fast kicked out with a huge ugly scandal. You are lucky if you by accident don't cross in a dark street boxer-brother or bandit-father :) Things like "yes, I liked you but I didn't promise you anything" don't work any more. Everybody is fed up with this shit. Women in Russia are no more desperate, the learned how to survive (including surviving without a man due to our bad situation with their amount). For fun and fuck they now prefer to go to special strip-clubs with men dancing. The most popular ones are "Egoistka" and "Red Hat". Compare yourself with the dancers. If you look the same or better, your chances grow. Each decent girl now has a stip-teaser fun-and-fuck-friend (they are quite affortable and sometimes free, because they also need fun and tired of serving ugly old women from Rublevka). And the girls are becoming so terribly picky... Even in a fuck-and-fun-boy they search now not just phisical beauty, but also kind heart and intelligence. Inperfections are forgiven only to real men for real relationships (with marriage, kids... I guess you already understood - just dating is no more fashionable). And to tell you the truth even professionals are so terribly tired of cinizm, you can't emagine.[/QUOTE]Helena Moscow describes the way russian girls think and ukrainian girls maybe wish to think. Anyway I meet everything Helena describes from the opposite site and reflects the reality. I wanted to ask Helena if:

1. Are there differences between czech and russian girls? Who are more available, open minded, cost less etc? Did she feel jealous of czech girls like many western women?

2. Does she think ukrainian and moldovan girls are different from russian ones and in what way? (Russian women claim ukrainian girls are dumb).

3. In her opinion foreigners are cheap and cannot compete the local oligarches? Her opinions would be of interest for mongers.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Thanks for the article on London BTW. That's horrible... and there are girls like that in Moscow too obviously. What I hate the most is the probing/demeaning "is money a problem for you?" question. High-priced *****s like to ask it too. Suki.[/QUOTE]

With reference to that watch she wanted, I'm not sure I'd have thought of it in the heat of the moment but the perfect response would have been: "Of course my darling, tomorrow that timepiece will be on your wrist. Right now, back to mine, it's time for a meeting of souls... "

And when dawn breaks you tell her all about your debt problems.. :D

I got asked for a laptop by a pre-op pamela anderson in Kiev three years ago. That night she got talking to the 18 year old son of a local "big man", after about an hour of this humiliation, I manufactured a row to get out of it. I had met her within 24 hours of landing but within three days and so much eye candy it was time to move on.

[QUOTE=It Travel]If you want to be out of money you gan just sponsor this teen...

[url]http://www.flirt.com.ua/dev_ll444/[/url]

Taskent, but I think if you are rich enough she will come to Moscow... simply incredible, an 18teen just out from the high school and look at some pics..

I think if you sponsor such a girl (it would be so for me in any case) you would be with no work and completely out of money in some months.

IT

PS But if you are a Russian billionare... she can be a benefit for one of your directors :([/QUOTE]Profile says Moscow (maybe it changed). However having spent a considerable time in Tashkent, I have come to the conclussion it is a VERY underrated mongering destination. Hanging out at Juliano's on a Friday evening as a VIP was a life experience you gotta have. No so much for the Uzbek chicks (some of whom were available) but the ethnic Russians were stunning (you could get away with $40) - some of them even know where to find rooms (which is a requirement as no Western Hotel chain - i.e. Intercontinental) would let them pass. The Intercont Manager "Helen" a black chick from the States had an eagle eye believe me.

[QUOTE=Ash1001]....
And when dawn breaks you tell her all about your debt problems.. :D[/QUOTE]

Or...tell all about her...that she kisses as student, she is so cold in sex..you need and deserve much more...she is nice,but her body miss the "fire"...she miss the most important thing in a woman...she is just a Ferrari without engine! :)

However joking aside, in couple of years I am afraid we all members ISG we will meet in Siberia to get nice pussy at good price...

P.S: thanks for the article Ash1001..we have something to reflect...

Gold diggers are generally cunning and want cash in advance.I also found that dating EE girls in western countries(except Germany) is considerably more expensive than in EE.It has to do with the attitude of natives towards the girls and the level of competition.Probably the russian girls in London know there are lots of suckers willing to pay for them considerable amounts.

The appearance of western girls who are supposed to compete with them makes them even more selfish and greedy.That is why I prefer chasing in EE and never bring EE girls outside EE.(except polish and czech girls who are now in EU).

[QUOTE=Lukasek]

Or tell her she is cold in sex and her body miss the "fire"!

However joking aside, in couple of years I am afraid we all members ISG will meet in Siberia to get nice pussy at good price...

[/QUOTE]

If you get some hot piece of ass, and YOU can't figure out HOW to
set her on fire, perhaps YOU are missing something? :D

Joking aside, who needs to wait for Sibr pussy? :p

[QUOTE=Hecker] I wanted to ask Helena if:

1. Are there differences between czech and russian girls? Who are more available, open minded, cost less etc? Did she feel jealous of czech girls like many western women?

2. Does she think ukrainian and moldovan girls are different from russian ones and in what way? (Russian women claim ukrainian girls are dumb).

3. In her opinion foreigners are cheap and cannot compete the local oligarches? Her opinions would be of interest for mongers.[/QUOTE]

OK, here are my answers:
1. About Russian and Czech girls. Being in Czech Republic, of course, I paid attention to girls. I found them very pretty, didn't notice anybody who would look really ugly, and some girls really impressed me by the way they looked. Definetely they have a different sort of beauty - their features are thinner than the Russians and they have a different eyes expression, I'd say there is something wild and misterious about them. I'd be often unable to say with certainty what they are thinking about. With Russians it's much easier for me, may be because I am a Russian myself. I had no chance yet to know any Czech girls (or boys) very well, I only began to learn about the Czech and their culture. So I can't say anything about the difference in our attitudes, for this I need more time and information. I didn't feel jealous, not for a second. I don't think Russian and Czechs are rivals or something like this. We are just slightly different, but for sure must have much in common, because we are both slav. Some people may prefer Czech, others may prefer Russians. I didn't feel lack of attention to my person, felt OK. By the way, I think it's an exaggeration that western women are jealous of Czech or Russian girls or girls of any other country. I traveled a lot, and in every country you can meet many wonderful women, men, girls and boys. Teenagers are cute everywhere. Nobody is better or worse than others. In general the cost of living in Prague is less than in Moscow, so I suspect that escorts in general can be slightly cheaper. But at the same time I saw a lot of advertisement of rather expensive Czech escorts. There must be a market for them, too. Anyway this small difference in rates can be important only for clients whose choice a provider is based on price only. When the choice is more personal, 30% price difference doesn't change the weather.
2. Ukrainean women are OK, I have some Ukrainean friends, they are both smart and good-looking. Moldavians I don't know, never met them.
3. Foreigners have different possibilities from oligarches. There are enough cheap and good people in any part of society and in any nation. I'd judge people by what they do, not by where they belong to.

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]

Be bad, but don't be rude. Rude they don't like, but they do like games. I often find it's easier to get 3 or 4 girls essentially at the same time as it is to just get one you focus on.

When juggling 3 or 4 you are cool... you don't answer SMSs immediately, you don't desperately pursue dates and you don't overdote. This sparks their interest.

Girls like to be chased... but only to a degree. They also like to chase a bit too. Don't make it to easy on them, they lose interest if you are too interested.

This of course applies mainly to the casual type relationship. [/QUOTE]


I really don't know where you find this sort of girls. I don't know any who would like this sort of games. For example, when I discover that a man plays tricks, I get rid of him even if he is a well-paying client. I think that playing tricks is disrespect to a person you are with, and it's absolutely not fun. Right, it makes women nervous and attracts attention. But then it depends on a women. If she likes to have things clear and feel happy (most of women I know prefer this), she will soon explain you the rules, and if after this you continue playing games, will soon turn you off. Probably after a huge histeric (because she will feel upset, used and humiliated). A man who responds sms with a dealy? - you kidding, a woman who has at least a drop of selfrespect will not be with a man who is so much uninterested in her that he doesn't even bother to respond in the proper time. The explanation like "sorry, dear, I was busy" is the synonim of "sorry, dear, I am an asshole, kick me out as soon as possible". All women who ever had relationships with men playing tricks always say to their friends: "I just don't understand, why he had to perform this ugly spectacular? He is an attractive man, and I liked him. If he didn't do this shit, I'd continue meeting him, but he behaved as a completely sick person... for what?" To me, for example, in any relationships - short, long or just business - my own comfort is the most important thing. I don't meet a person who tease me after I discover the game. And I don't have sex with him after this. Never. Under no condition, it's absolutely impossible, because my own quietness is more important. To my mind the only acceptable type of a "bad boy" is a fun-guy who entertains, but not playing tricks and keeps situation clear and fun for both. And, of course, this boy should say at the very first moment: "I'm just a bad boy, I'm here for fun only, I don't need serious relationships". Then if a girl feels OK about this, she may continue. This is at least honest.

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow] To my mind the only acceptable type of a "bad boy" is a fun-guy who entertains, but not playing tricks and keeps situation clear and fun for both. And, of course, this boy should say at the very first moment: "I'm just a bad boy, I'm here for fun only, I don't need serious relationships". Then if a girl feels OK about this, she may continue. This is at least honest.[/QUOTE]Helena,

Perhaps you miss the point entirely but being a woman it is not entirely your fault. You think that a man is going to be straight, honest and upfront with a woman? But to my mind this only applies to women you pay by the hour, this being the only honest relationship a man can have.

For everyone else, casual or otherwise the cardinal rule is to tell them only what they need to know, no more no less.

Honestly telling them you are only looking for casual sex or a quick fuck may work for the esteemed Dr Skank but for us lesser mortals, bullshit is the dish of the day and the thicker you lay it on they more they will lap it up.

Lastly, Russian women might come across as very tough, but dig a little deeper they will put up with a hell of alot of shit and still jump into bed with you. More so than in Western Europe.