Bogota Reports

[QUOTE=DaVinci40;2741325]For some reason, this theory seems to persist and feel that the air needs to be cleared so that we can all move on from Uber and rideshares being illegal. They are not. Let me summarize for us all:

1) Taxi companies in Colombia (like the rest of the world) require their drivers to pay a fee for a medallion. The fees go to local / city / state tax revenues. Every country has their own term for this medallion. In Colombia it's called a "Cupo". And just like basically every country, they had not yet modernized their taxi service and it struggled with the advent of rideshares where anyone could become a "taxi driver" without having to pay your local government the "cupo" fees. As an example, a Cupo in Colombia along with the special drivers license required costs $25-50 k USD. Yes, that is correct. $25 to 50 thousand US dollars. It is often more expensive than the car itself and is a huge source of revenue for the government.

2) Rather than modernize their service or reduce the need for a Cupo, Colombia instead chose to sue Uber specifically as it was the largest rideshare company at the time it entered the Colombian market.

3) Uber lost the court case and in December, 2019 the Superintendent of Industry and Commerce, came out and said Uber is now illegal. This is the point that many of these discussions have hovered around. A member of government on December 19th, 2019 said it was illegal.

4) 10 days later, Uber disputed the findings of the court case and initiated legal actions against the Colombian government to protect foreign investments under the free trade agreement between Colombia and the USA (Uber is a Delaware, USA based company).

5) Approximately 1 month later, while the courts had yet to review the case, Uber left Colombia in February 2020. Reports popped up that Transport police were giving rideshare drivers a hard time at the airports and in an attempt to get around it would require someone sit in the front. At the same time Uber dropped their protective status case because. (read number 6).

6) Once Uber had left, they initiated a different agreement to the Uber app and effectively bypassed the ruling given by the court. Uber in Colombia gets around the ruling by now calling itself a "Car and Driver Rental Service". Now, when getting an Uber from your app you are specifically renting a car and driver and that subtle change means you can use Uber as well as the other rideshare apps as they also changed their terms of service. This is how Uber (and the other apps we call rideshares but in Colombia are now called car and driver rentals) are allowed to operate. It is also my understanding.

7) That's it. Uber and other rideshare apps are not illegal in Colombia.

Now go out and ride your Ubers, Didi's, Indriver to your hearts content while down in Colombia and stop fretting that you're going to get arrested.[/QUOTE]You are wrong about one thing. The money that taxi drivers pay for a "cupo" is not going to the government, is not paying any taxes and it is not required by Taxi companies to include cars in their associations. The way it works is: the government allocates a number of taxis for a city let's say 100.000 for Bogota. People apply for a license and licenses are given to the first 100.000 people who applied. Then you are the owner of the license. It is just first come first served. That happened of course decades ago.

Now in order for a new taxi to be registered, you need to show papers showing that another taxi was scrapped. This is what they call the "cupo". Because there are so many taxis stolen for parts or in accidents that totaled them, there are always "cupos" available. In fact, the price of those "cupos" has gone down a lot since uber, didi, cabby and other firms are operating in the city. I am not sure how much it should be now but 10 years ago it was close to 80 million. Almost twice as much as the price of a new taxi at that time.

A few years ago, the government of Bogota, trying to get more tax money, wanted to make taxi drivers declare those "cupos" in their tax forms, but this idea never took off. Government at some point also tried to make the "cupos" Illegal but again the idea never took off. It is just money for an intangible asset that is paid between individuals.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2741338]What I do not get is why guys can not find a normal woman to treat like a human being. Why do they always have to do it with a chick they are supposed to be paying in the first place, aka a hooker, sugar baby, or whatever other name you want to give a chick that is not coming over if you do not give her money?[/QUOTE]I cannot speak for everyone Mr. E. After my divorce, I did not trust women. My ex was very attractive, church going, and was nice and loving early on and turned into a fucking monster. I was living with a woman who literally wanted me to be unhappy. Then you go to a court room and you are told that your money is not your own and half of the money is hers even if she is sitting on her ass. So what does that tell guys?

IMO you are telling men that prostitutes are a better deal. If you want control over your own money, and you want women who will be nice to you, have sex with you, and care how you feel, you better get a pro, and it is great at first, but slowly, you want more. It is an empty feeling as you hand them money and they fly out the door. So emotionally being a sugar baby was the next best thing. You open yourself up a little more and there is some emotional connection. There are some hurt feelings but not like with a GF or wife. And this is why I gave the compliment. The OP was treating women as human being versus a person just doing a job. That tells me a guy is halfway there.

As far as why I did not do the conventional dating market, the quality between that and the SB market was ridiculous. It would be one thing if I saw guys killing it in the dating market but they were all bitching, and many were very fit and very wealthy guys. This was in the USA, and the expectations of a halfway decent looking woman were through the roof. I told you about the overweight elderly woman who thought we were on a date and how she would not like it if I saw other people if we were dating. And I did not say it but what I wanted to say was, "Honey, I have a sugar baby whose friends compare her to a supermodel waiting for me at home. You think I give a damn about your expectations? You are lucky I am even talking to you. " I was not comfortable in that scene and why would I be. Look at what my supposed value was in it.

Again, I cannot speak for other guys but I mastered using seeking. I was confident using it scoring the type of women I never had been with before. My current gal is an incredibly provocative dancer and among the best looking women I have ever seen. If I talked to a hundred guys in a club where she was dancing, a normal club, a hundred guys would have told me she it out of my league. Yet when I am doing the SB interview, I did not think that at all. I had women in her league as sugar babies and had rejected them. I also knew what worked and did not in SB relationships. Furthermore, in Colombia, what I found on seeking was a lot of women were not there for money. Their friends had been on the site and found men they liked and had dated or even gotten married.

So we are not in the club and I can talk one on one where I am at my best and it is quiet. Unlike the club or some bar, I am not intimidated. I have done this so many times before. I have my list of questions. I am interviewing her. Where am I going to put you? Sugar baby? WG? Straight out rejection? I put her in the SB category and I have said before she asked for nothing but I still put money in her purse after we had sex.

But I needed that last push Mr. E, and you gave it. How about not giving her anything anything and putting her in the GF category? Now I had done this with women who were not that hot or really hot women I knew for a while and was comfortable with but next time I gave her nothing and invited her on a trip and that is where the magic happened. It was clear to me after that that she wanted to be with me and not my money.

The hard part for me was navigating around this reality: you can be miserable and stay married or you can not give a fuck what society thinks and see all the women you want, and I did the latter. For a while, I hid my life then gradually started showing it to people and saw that they really did not care as long as I was happy. What I saw in in the USA were WGs, women who were WGs but liked to pretend like they were not, and women who treated men like dirt. Given those choices, I was like I will stay with the WGs.

A lot is made about machismo in Latin countries but I will say that there seem to be limits put on female behavior whereas in the USA there seemed to be none. It took divorce for my ex and a lot of other women to realize that there were limits to their shitty behaviors.

I get your model Mr. E. It just does not work for me. I do not have the time to spend in Colombia like you do, and the amount you are haggling over is just not that important to me. I think the takeaway is there are high quality women in Colombia unlike in the USA who may just like you for you. If they ask for money, they are a WG and treat them accordingly but try to seek out the ones who do not ask and see what happens. There is a chance they may really like you.

In short, Mr. E, I paid women Mr. E because I did not trust them otherwise, and it is going to take time for a lot of guys to trust women without paying them. You might not get it but fears are not rational.

[QUOTE=ClamSlammer;2741418]So again, here's the question that you refuse to answer:

If Uber is illegal in Colombia, why doesn't the Colombian government shut down access to its servers? Remove Uber app downloads from Colombian IP addresses? Freeze all Uber's Colombian bank accounts? Issue arrest warrants for Uber's board of directors?[/QUOTE]I do not work for the Colombian government so I can not tell you why they do not take more measures to prevent ride-share apps. And even though it is illegal I have read info online that they are still paying taxes. Maybe kind of like those weed shops in the US that are illegal on a federal level, but they are still paying taxes to the federal government, and last I read they could not even deposit that "illegal drug money" into a federally-insured bank. Why doesn't the US federal government shut them down?

Now what you refuse to do is provide proof as to why it is legal. You keep using your first world business reasoning for a third world issue. And in this case it is not compatible.

Once again I talked to a friend in Bogota tonight that drives Uber. She said the apps exist but they are still illegal. What she sent me explains why it is not legal. It is because in order to give a ride to someone for money the car has to be registered with the minister of transportation. This is the cupo that costs an arm and a leg that is being discussed. And we all know that most vehicles that pick someone up when they order a rideshare is someone's personal vehicle. If you are giving someone a ride for money without the cupo then you are operating within an unregulated black market. Uber tries to circumvent this by saying the person that calls up for a ride is actually renting a car and the driver happens to come with it. But the thing she sent me goes on to say that if you are working through these apps you run the risk of being fined, your vehicle impounded, and your license suspended. Or maybe they should just tell the police to chill because ClamSlammer said it was all good.

If you can find any information that contradicts what she or this said, then post it here. And I am not asking for your reasoning, your experience in the first world, or something that sounds like it makes sense to you. Post something that says today Uber is finally legal in Colombia and supporting documents. Because there is tons online as well as drivers that have first hand experience saying that it is not legal, but from what you are saying you (with no hand experience) know better than them.

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2741673]After my divorce, I did not trust women.[/QUOTE]You did not trust them to do what? I trust a woman just fine to cook me a home cooked meal, but I damn sure would not trust any of them with my ATM card and the PIN. Why would I be inclined to? I guess it is all a matter of perspective and what you want to entrust to them.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2741739]You did not trust them to do what? I trust a woman just fine to cook me a home cooked meal, but I damn sure would not trust any of them with my ATM card and the PIN. Why would I be inclined to? I guess it is all a matter of perspective and what you want to entrust to them.[/QUOTE]To have sex and for them not to go crazy if their bat shit crazy expectations were not met. When you pay for sex, it is like this is what you get and you cannot * about getting more.

I knew big cops who were scared shitless of a woman complaining they harassed her. My ex called the cops and was told that I would be arrested if I yelled at her.

My sister-in-law got pissed at my brother and told the cops he hit her. Of course, he did not, and he eventually caught her in a recording where she said just that. A woman thinks that if a man offends her, he belongs in jail. Again, this has gotten to be normal.

We just had an incident where a volleyball player claimed someone called her the and word. I do not like it but this was like a national incident. It is like, "A woman's feelings are hurt. We need to find a man and beat them up so she feels better. " They did an investigation and found no evidence to back up what she said happened.

On the flip side, my ex-fiance in Venezuela went to the police and complained she had a stalker in Peru. The police were like "Yeah, sorry maam, but you are from Venezuela and we really do not give a shit. " The laws are the same in Latin America as they are here, but they are just not enforced.

One guy on here said that he wanted women to sign consent forms before having sex with them. For Colombia, that is crazy. For the USA, it is not.

And the idea of even seeing pros has been clamped down on with this trafficking BS. If you played the way you are in the USA, Mr. E, you would be sued or in jail or both. If you do not believe me, come back and try it. You will see.

Hi Mr E, first of all great advice. I'm new to this Bogota sub forum as I've only just visited this great city. I'm surprised there's not more buzz about it (I also want to try out Lima too but that's later) so the first thing I don't want to do is come on and be a douche and start something with someone that's got a lot of experience here. I also don't want to take Clams approach of just giving anecdotal stuff. Kind of like you said "Colombia doesn't work because Clam said something should work" with no real evidence to back that up. I also don't want to negate what your Uber driver friend had to say either but I'll try and make my points succinct and with no anecdotal evidence but something a bit more meaty and factual.

It's really confusing how the Colombian government works. What's new? LOL. In this example, it's confusing because Didi, Indriver, I can't think of the others right now but they work as ridesharing apps. Why it's confusing is that ridesharing apps are the things that should be illegal in Colombia under this ruling but they are allowed to continue as Cotech Inc (the company that initially sued Uber) sued just Uber and not Didi or the others as Uber was the primary market share at the time (this goes all the way back to about 2015). In theory if you ride Didi as an example, you may be breaking the law but the ruling was specifically against Uber. Either way it doesn't mean that a traffic cop can't be a dick to a driver. Confusing as well, because as of after Uber left Colombia and after the ruling that Cotech won the case against Uber, Uber changed their model of business to not being a rideshare but instead becoming a car rental but with a driver (kind of like a limousine but just not a limo LOL). That's specifically how Uber gets around the court case. So you are technically correct in that Uber as a rideshare is illegal. However, Uber in its new form in Colombia is now a car rental company that simply offers a driver. And car rentals, with or without a driver, are not illegal in Colombia. In fact, Cotech has yet to sue Uber as it would be difficult to win and complicated if they did win to then enforce.

From a consumer standpoint, it's no different to us. We get on the Uber app and we pick a destination, tell it where we are, a list of options come up for price and car and then we agree to the ride. As a driver, it's different. Here in the USA, Uber drivers and delivery drivers have their own app that's different than the riders app that you and I use. Terms of service have to be agreed upon and your specific country needs to be entered so that your app is then compliant with that countries laws. Uber around the time of this case partnered with a Latin American company, that was specific to Colombia called TaxExpress. That may be the app that the drivers use in Colombia or TaxExpress software may be integrated into the Uber Driver app. Either way, the driver is no longer considered a rideshare driver and is now expressly renting their vehicle and they themselves are offering themselves as a driver when me, you or someone else requests them on our Uber app.

A bit confusing? Yeah it is There are a number of articles out there but it gets a bit difficult to find some as I'm here in the States and if you are too finding Colombian based news articles in Colombian using google search that's going to search for primarily English language articles because I'm here is a little difficult but I'll put links to some good informative articles that will give you some more factual based evidence rather than what Clam is doing which is kind of "well if I think it should work then it must work this way" type thing. If you do some searching too it's easy to get what is now incorrect info. Make sure you look for articles specifically within the last year as if you look up most articles from 2020 and earlier it's before Uber changed their rideshare model.

As for your taxi driver friend. I feel for her / him. Those Cupos are frikken ridiculously high. And if I was a taxi driver that paid what is almost a small fortune and probably more than the cost of my car just so I can drive as a taxi to then have my earnings half or even worse almost dissapear with the advent of rideshares I'the be pissed and I may even take my anger out on Uber, DiDi drivers, etc. Because of that and because of incendiary remarks by the Colombian Transport minister it makes some of these drivers nervous. Hopefully instead the taxi fleet in Colombia modernizes instead.

[URL]https://fee.org/articles/how-colombia-s-crackdown-on-uber-is-hurting-their-transportation-industry/amp[/URL]

[URL]https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/2022/mar/24/uber-new-york-city-taxis-deal-app[/URL]

[URL]https://labsnews.com/en/news/business/uber-taxi-colombia/?amp[/URL]

[URL]https://www.expresscomputer.in/news/restriction-on-uber-overturned-by-columbia-court/58616/[/URL]

I had one from Bogota Express that was dated fairly recently but I can't find the link now and it was a good explainer regarding rideshare apps vs Ubers model of car rental w / driver and how that model may become more widespread across Latin America. The same situation is also happening to a lesser degree in CDMX but right now it's specific to the airport but just like Colombia, Mexico is also confusing as it's rarely enforced one day and then another is.

[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2741727]I do not work for the Colombian government so I can not tell you why they do not take more measures to prevent ride-share apps. And even though it is illegal I have read info online that they are still paying taxes. Maybe kind of like those weed shops in the US that are illegal on a federal level, but they are still paying taxes to the federal government, and last I read they could not even deposit that "illegal drug money" into a federally-insured bank. Why doesn't the US federal government shut them down?

Now what you refuse to do is provide proof as to why it is legal. You keep using your first world business reasoning for a third world issue. And in this case it is not compatible.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2741900]If you played the way you are in the USA, Mr. E, you would be sued or in jail or both. If you do not believe me, come back and try it. You will see.[/QUOTE]You forget that I have friends and family members that still do all their dirt in the USA. Those kind. Of problems just do not run in our circle.

What is the next cheapest country after Colombia? Can't stay here all year.

[QUOTE=ClamSlammer;2741418]You think a multi-billion dollar MNC knowingly operates illegally, gives millions of rides a day, conducts a million transactions a day with Colombian banks, and the Colombian government has no clue what's going on? The stupidity is just off the scale. BTW there are ZERO advertisements in Vegas explicitly advertising prostitution. And certain prosecutors won't prosecute small drug cases because the court system will become overwhelmed. You have no clue on how businesses and the legal system operate. You brag about knowing everything in the 3rd world yet you've never seen a plug-in water heater.

So again, here's the question that you refuse to answer:

If Uber is illegal in Colombia, why doesn't the Colombian government shut down access to its servers? Remove Uber app downloads from Colombian IP addresses? Freeze all Uber's Colombian bank accounts? Issue arrest warrants for Uber's board of directors?[/QUOTE]After taking countless Uber's, They always want me to sit in the front, even if it's just me and my girl. So they don't want to appear to somebody they are rideshare. I had one woman Uber driver tell me if we get stopped, to call her by her first name, she said " they can take my car away. " I have no idea who, what or why but they seem to me to be wary of something.

[QUOTE=DaVinci40;2741937]Uber changed their model of business to not being a rideshare but instead becoming a car rental but with a driver (kind of like a limousine but just not a limo LOL). That's specifically how Uber gets around the court case. So you are technically correct in that Uber as a rideshare is illegal. However, Uber in its new form in Colombia is now a car rental company that simply offers a driver.[/QUOTE]That I know. From my understanding this is only Uber saying they are now this type of business, however it has still not gotten approval from any government entity to be run in this manner. So until it does or until it is formally challenged, it is still operating in a gray area and technically illegal, hence the people doing it can be subject to all the fines and stuff.

It is like the reverse of the USA weed game. Some states have said it is okay, but federally it has not been given any approval, so at any time the federal government can come shut it down but as of now they have made no effort to do such. With Uber the big guys have NOT said this new model is okay but are not putting in the effort to totally squash it, hence the local guys can enforce it as being illegal under the last and most current LEGAL ruling which says Uber's business is not okay.

Cupid still around? I heard FB and Insta plus SA and tinder were the "stack".

Anyone know?

[QUOTE=LatinaLover#1;2741508]Back when I was using SA and Cupid, I would have lots of these girls asking for money and we had never even met! I always tell them I don't send money, when I see you, of course I'll take care of you. If they ask again I block them. I have to assume if they ask me, they are asking all the men. There is a good portion of SA girls that use the app to groom dozens of guys as their ATM.

I had a few close amigas, who were amazing, great sex, super cute and never even discussed money upfront, they were just thankful for whatever I gave them, never talked about time, just great girlfriend sex. I did send a couple of my special friends a few dollars during the pandemic, they had no food and they all lost their POS jobs. They were the exception.[/QUOTE]

Finally got airfare down to Bogota outside of work so I can spend some time checking out the girls. I'll be there Wed night-Mon (travelling Monday so probably not a chance to do much) in the beginning of November. See any reason to do 1 night in Medellin or just focus on Bogota? I'm not interested in the SA, tinder scene of dating, going out for meals, etc just primarily look around for a SG or club girl, fuck and move onto the next one. Sounds like T,F,S should be busier in the Santa Fe clubs while Sunday is going to be quieter. Wondering if the scene is busy enough in Medellin on Sunday or just stick around Bogota?

Seniors may comment whether above hotel is chica friendly? Thanks in advance.

I spent one week in Bogota. Here what I discovered.

This is my second time in Colombia, but 1st in Bogota. Be prepared for a lower temperature. Even inside the Airbnb temperature can be lower than optimal. Never freezing, but not what you expect from a tropical place. The red-light area is in Santa Fe, mostly Carrera 15 and 16 as reported in many maps. All the club are in the same area and it is nice to walk from one to the other Fiebre, Troya, Texas, California. On Thursday there were 2 great girls in Fiebre, and when I say great, I mean skinny, young, pretty and with active personality. Lap dance is 50 mil, and it is worth especially if you have a friend and the girl share the time between the two, jumping from one to the other. Be prepared that she gets completely naked and all the folks in the close tables will look at her (and you will do the same when the show is on a close table). Try to take a table just under the upper floor so the girl can hang and put her pussy on your face. My buddy paid 100 cop for a short session, I guess 20 minutes.

Comparing the red light area of Bogota to Medellin's Botero square, I felt much safer in Bogota. I was out there from 3 pm to 1 am without feeling any danger. Clearly, I used the normal precautions you must use in Colombia, avoiding dark areas and behaving like an easy prey. They say "no dar papaya". In the area, there are likely 100 girls in the street, and they keep changing, so, if you go to a club and you get out in 20 min or so, you will find many new girls. They ask between 40 and 50 for 30 minutes, at least with my weak negotiation skill. My Spanish is at 10% level and these girls do not speak slowly because they mostly work with locals. A chica told me that their customers are mostly Colombians, but they all prefer Tourist because they pay more. Keep with you a small baby-wipes bag that you can buy in any supermarket, it is very useful after the session.

You can find food for any taste. Many are just 18-19. There are small and large, tall and bajitas. For the equivalent of 10 USD you can get them and touch their young bodies. Even when I was too tired to finalize the session, it was great to play for 30 minutes with a pretty body and have some nice time.

I staid in and Airbnb, a large apartment at 10 minutes from Santa Fe. A ISG Member told me he stays ad San Francisco hotel that is at walking distance from SF and room are good, cheap with an included morning breakfast.

I tried to call girls from Photo Prepago and Mileroticos, but it was mostly a waste of time. To set an appointment it takes too long, They always say yes initially, but then they do not show up, or they do not want to go to an Airbnb. I had only one girl, but he was NOT the one in the pictures. Other Members told me this is very common. My most precious resource was "time" and these internet sites are very time consuming and I think it is not worth using them.

It is also possible to eat in the area, no need to take a taxi to go to eat.

I'll never say enough tank-you to the other ISG Member I met in Bogota and the great suggestions they had for me.

Finally, Woodman09 is a great guy, he is from LA, but lives in Bogota, and he spends his time mongering 365 days per year. He knows exactly what you need to know before you ask. If you want to learn all the tricks quickly, without wasting your time and taking risks, then PM him and have a tour. He will also introduce you to the other mongers. After the initial paid tour, I kept meeting him in the other days too, to walk around, eat and have some good time together.

Great report Arthur. Can't wait to get down there.

[QUOTE=Arthur62;2742323]I spent one week in Bogota. Here what I discovered.

This is my second time in Colombia, but 1st in Bogota. Be prepared for a lower temperature. Even inside the Airbnb temperature can be lower than optimal. Never freezing, but not what you expect from a tropical place. The red-light area is in Santa Fe, mostly Carrera 15 and 16 as reported in many maps. All the club are in the same area and it is nice to walk from one to the other Fiebre, Troya, Texas, California. On Thursday there were 2 great girls in Fiebre, and when I say great, I mean skinny, young, pretty and with active personality. Lap dance is 50 mil, and it is worth especially if you have a friend and the girl share the time between the two, jumping from one to the other. Be prepared that she gets completely naked and all the folks in the close tables will look at her (and you will do the same when the show is on a close table). Try to take a table just under the upper floor so the girl can hang and put her pussy on your face. My buddy paid 100 cop for a short session, I guess 20 minutes.

Comparing the red light area of Bogota to Medellin's Botero square, I felt much safer in Bogota. I was out there from 3 pm to 1 am without feeling any danger. Clearly, I used the normal precautions you must use in Colombia, avoiding dark areas and behaving like an easy prey. They say "no dar papaya". In the area, there are likely 100 girls in the street, and they keep changing, so, if you go to a club and you get out in 20 min or so, you will find many new girls. They ask between 40 and 50 for 30 minutes, at least with my weak negotiation skill. My Spanish is at 10% level and these girls do not speak slowly because they mostly work with locals. A chica told me that their customers are mostly Colombians, but they all prefer Tourist because they pay more..[/QUOTE]