General Reports

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547450]You seem bent on examining things in isolation, you think tipping improves attitude, guess what so do many other men, and their accumulative action of tipping is what creates the norm to these girls.[/QUOTE]Please show me, sir, where I ever said that I think tipping improves attitude. The topic being addressed is service, not attitude.

As for attitude if you tip a waiter 100 USD they are probably going to be happy, thrilled and you will have likely made their day. With also an instant attitude improvement towards their benefactors.

As for what creates the norm to these girls, the more they get paid all the power to them. Are you familiar with the story of Robin Hood.

Many foreign mongers spend thousands in air fare and hotels to spend a while in Siam. Why should they haggle over or be concerned about spending a relatively few extra dollars while having the time of their life with a Thai lady? Those dollars mean little to the monger, but a whole lot to many poor Thai women and their families.

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547450]Have you considered that maybe the reason that these girls you deem unworthy of a tip, maybe that way due to the behavior of mongers in the past.[/QUOTE]The reason the 90% were deemed unworthy of a repeat or tip is because they were not up to the standard of the other 10% who were worthy of being regulars or keepers. More specifically their attitude and or services provided were not up to snuff. Some of the services I was interested in included BBFS bareback full service sex, or one hour long BBBJ bareback blow job, or rimming for an extended duration, or DFK for an hour or three, or continual balls licking and many others that I won't bore you with by listing. A one minute BJ or no kissing doesn't really cut it, amongst various other causes for being not repeat worthy.

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547450]The most common complaint I hear from men about a girls attitude is demanding tips or asking for tips even before service has began.[/QUOTE]In having spent many months in Thailand seeing Bangkok streetwalkers I can't say I've ever encountered that kind of an upsell that sometimes occurs in Western prostitution. Have things changed that much in a few years since I was there in 2014. I doubt it. In the vast majority of cases I've found Thai females attitudes are at least quite decent, if not even excellent.

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547450]Or another possibility is maybe she just isn't into you, but I would have thought given your examples, offering a BIG tip would change most girls from a being cold fish to a hot ready to please fucklet. Seems to me this disproves your theory that tipping improves service.[/QUOTE]IME the few times I've ever offered a huge tip to get a lady to do something she was reluctant to do, it was generally successful. So, yes, that's evidence that tipping in such a situation often improves service, IOW it got me the service that I wanted.

The fact that I found, as a jaded monger, that 90% were not worthy of repeats, has no bearing on whether or not a big tip would have proven successful in getting what I wanted from those sessions, because I generally did not offer such a big tip during those sessions. In general I just let the ladies take the lead and do what they were into doing. If they asked me what I wanted, then I might tell them but not press the issue if they were reluctant.

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547450]Anyway like I said, guys who want to tip, overpay or call it whatever you want, can do as you please as its your money, but no way in hell will I be divulging where I find my 19 yrs old to fuck for 20 dollars, or the equivalent gem finds in the applicable countries. Feel free to pay as much as you like for women who already are overpriced, as these are not the waters I fish in.[/QUOTE]Sure, keep the inside info to yourself. Why wouldn't you. You wouldn't want to spoil your market or have ladies demanding higher prices. Personally I'm happy for relatively poor PFP pay for play gals getting more money from richer Koreans, Japanese, Americans and every other nationality. The story of Robin Hood comes to mind.

[QUOTE=HorseTrader;2547459]All of my friends, coworkers, and family at home know that I go to Thailand and most of them assume I go for sex. A few of them have asked me and I tell them that sex is part of the trip. Nobody has expressed any discomfort with the concept. One female friend said why else would a man go to Thailand?

I have several Thai friends in USA and they are supportive of what I do. They view it as recreation for me and financial support for the girls and their family.[/QUOTE]I suppose it depends on the sort of society in which one lives. I would never tell anyone I know that I am going to another country to bang hookers. If I'm going to Colombia, Brazil, the Philippines or Thailand I do not tell anyone that I am going there but lie and say another country where I usually go for work if I tell them at all. I tell them when I'm going to Germany though where I go to quite often.

My brother introduced me to mongering in the early 1970's but he no longer does that and just drinks and hangs out with his buddies now. I used to tell him about my exploits but stopped about 12 years ago after his slightly contemptuous reaction to a verbal Colombia trip report. My circle of associates are very judgmental and I actually seek to avoid their company as much as possible.

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547309][URL]https://www.infosurv.com/does-tipping-encourage-better-customer-service/[/URL]#text=Generally%2 C%20 how%20 much%20 people%20 tip, with%20 the%20 quality%20 of%20 service. &text=The%20 same%20 study%20 found%20 in, weakly%20 correlated%20 with%20 bigger%20 tips.

"he same study found in surveys that people say they tip almost exclusively based on the level of service, however, in field studies in actual restaurants find that better service is weakly correlated with bigger tips. ".[/QUOTE]That article refers to tipping in certain restaurants, etc, not prostitution. And tipping after the service is completed not offered beforehand as a promise if a specific service (such as BBFS, DATO, DFK) is performed. So it has no relevance to the type of tipping I was referring to. And does not constitute evidence against it. OTOH the following second restaurant example is additional evidence, on top of what my previous posts have stated, in favor of the view that the type of tipping I refer to works and can be highly successful:

"Tony Gill, professor of political science at the University of Washington, believes in tipping, and he has a favourite story about it. He's a fan of US football team the Seattle Seahawks. Every week he goes to his favourite bar, where a stool is reserved for him on game days. One week he had to travel for work, and the bar called to see whether he was OK. That, he says, is how good service quality becomes when you tip.

"Social psychologist Mike Lynn also has a favourite tipping story, but it's a bit different. He was working at a fine dining restaurant during his student days when a customer called him over and slapped a pile of US $5 notes on the table. The customer declared the money was Lynn's tip, but that he'd take away one fiver for every time his glass went unfilled, his ashtray unemptied, or any other issue that arose. Lynn ended up pocketing a big tip."

[URL]https://www.intheblack.com/articles/2019/04/01/does-tipping-encourage-great-service[/URL]

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547309]Now am I saying that if you are a weak beta male who is unattractive you cannot use the carrot of a big tip to increase your value, sure you can.

What I'm getting at is best illustrated by these examples.

Situation 1 Newbie monger gets the standard fuck and suck and he is blown away can't sing enough of her praises pays 2000.

Situation 2 Pinkpearl comes along and promises a "big tip" for good service, she again gives the standard fuck and suck that she got praised for earlier, but PP said that's the norm not excellent service refuses a tip they argue and everyone leaves unhappy.

Situation 3 "tipper" guy comes along and same thing happens standard suck and fuck tips 1000 baht as he happy.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't do what you imagine me doing above. For one thing I don't speak Thai and wouldn't trust that the lady would understand in English what I'm talking about if had ever spoken to any of them about a tip for good service. Secondly, it is too vague and, as you correctly pointed out, can lead to misunderstanding and unhappiness. How is she going to guess what is meant by good service. Is she a mind reader. Obviously not. OTOH when she says must have condom and I say big tip for no condom and she jumps on my bare erect rock hard joy stick, evidently the deal is understood and sealed.

[QUOTE=MutantChicken;2547450]if you are requesting something that is out of the norm or dangerous (most sane people would consider bareback sex with a prostitute not the norm and unsafe) then you would have to pay extra (call that a tip).[/QUOTE]In this era of covid and its ever deadlier mutations, I wonder if most people would consider kissing a prostitute to be the norm and safe, either in 2020,2021, 2022 or thereafter. Which is more dangerous, BBFS precovid o -lunhnnr DFK during covid with a PFP pay for play gal. Of course if one really wants to be safe, they can stay home, keep away from any form of sex with prostitutes or anyone else, and wank to internet porn and sex dolls. That would be safer re pregnancy and STIs as well as being cheaper and perhaps better sex as well. So how safe do you want to be. That's what I've been doing the past six years or so as I build up my bankroll for something different in South East Asia in latter 2021 or 2022. As far as bareback sex is concerned, as I've proven via many of my old posts, it's quite possible to do that in a way that is as safe as those who typically use condoms. By means off HIV testing, coitus interruptus, vasectomy, circumcision, etc. Been there, done that.

[QUOTE=MonkeyPaw;2468392]When this all started, I wrote this will be all about "the haves, the have nots, inequality, and social injustice" spotlighted by a global pandemic that seems to have no end. Nothing has change. Look around the world and you are seeing a perfect storm brewing with all the chaos. I suggest people go out and do whatever is on your bucket list or fuck whatever hot girl you can find or have an orgy. The end is the end.[/QUOTE]Hate to say, I told you so, but I told you so. Haves versus Have Nots. There is a reason why they are only closing "entertainment and sex" venues, blocking Facebook videos and pages, and quieting workers.

[URL]https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/pimp-turned-whistleblower-chuvit-blames-vvips-who-pack-thonglor-titty-clubs-for-endless-covid-video/[/URL]

[QUOTE=PinkPearl;2547975]tipping... offered beforehand as a promise if a specific service (such as BBFS, DATO, DFK) is performed.[/QUOTE]A promise of additional money for specific service beforehand is NOT a tip. It's an upsell. No idea why people insist on using "a tip" as a euphemism, but it's no more a tip than "un petit cadeau" given to a corrupt official to get out of trouble is a genuine heartfelt gift. Now, there's nothing wrong with negotiating before the session, some guys need to be clear on services provided (especially if it's something non-standard like A+) but let's call it for what it is.

However, negotiating / offering extra money for what should be services (like BBBJ, DFK, DATY) encourages the worst of behaviors in the girls. The a-la-carte sex is one of the most depressing aspects of paid sex, sadly common across the world. One major reason why people go to places like Thailand or The Philippines is precisely to avoid that, and have some illusion of a smooth sex session, rather than having to fight for every single thing, including taking off the bra.

I only tip if a girl has gone above and beyond, and never tell her beforehand I might tip her. Happens in maybe 20%-30% of the sessions in Thailand these days, and usually no more than token 100-200 baht. As for negotiation, I might ask to confirm if certain things (like BBBJ or 2 shots) are available, but don't offer extra money for them on top of the agreed on session price. If she doesn't do it, too bad, move on to the next one.

Covid-19 is spiking up in Thailand, particularly in Bangkok, where it spread rapidly through the bars frequented by High Society Thais. It looks like this wave is the Big One the government has been worried about. Bars are closed in Bangkok and Pattaya.

Singapore before Covid you could get a 40 USD fuck at a legal brothel or a 80 USD GFE hour with a hot girl in her 20's. Not Singaporean girls but imported Thai, Chinese or Viet girls. Even now with the borders close you can get a decent GFE and massage for about 120 USD.

[QUOTE=ExpatAmerican;2550194]Singapore before Covid you could get a 40 USD fuck at a legal brothel or a 80 USD GFE hour with a hot girl in her 20's. Not Singaporean girls but imported Thai, Chinese or Viet girls. Even now with the borders close you can get a decent GFE and massage for about 120 USD.[/QUOTE]GFE with a PRC or Viet worker in Singapore for 80 USD (100 SGD)!? You were either insanely lucky or have really low expectations about what GFE means.

Don't get me wrong, Singapore is OK for cheap-ish sex (though Malaysia is cheaper), but GFE is certainly not easy to find, at least not whatever I'd call GFE.

[QUOTE=ExpatAmerican;2550194]Singapore is a first world country with cheap sex

Singapore before Covid you could get a 40 USD fuck at a legal brothel or a 80 USD GFE hour with a hot girl in her 20's. Not Singaporean girls but imported Thai, Chinese or Viet girls. [/QUOTE]I've been to Singapore a few times but am definitely no expert on their scene. Where is the 40 USD legal brothel? Geylang? An insider tip would be great. Their are certainly some young cute Viet girls at Ipanema. Way way better than in BC and TC in Malaysia. I definitely wasn't quoted 80 USD but price for the quality is very good. Also met a top gogo quality Thai girl in one of the "gogo" bars in Orchard Towers.

The problem with Singapore is that hotels are extremely expensive near Orchard Towers or Marina Bay. I include that 200/300+ USD per night in my hobby expense. I'm assuming OT or Brix girls will not be willing to go across town to a budget hotel in Geylang. Beautiful girls but imo too expensive. It is my second favorite city in Asia behind Tokyo.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2550154]A promise of additional money for specific service beforehand is NOT a tip. It's an upsell. No idea why people insist on using "a tip" as a euphemism, but it's no more a tip than "un petit cadeau" given to a corrupt official to get out of trouble is a genuine heartfelt gift. Now, there's nothing wrong with negotiating before the session, some guys need to be clear on services provided (especially if it's something non-standard like A+) but let's call it for what it is.[/QUOTE]True, if one includes in the definition of a tip it necessarily being a "genuine heartfelt gift", then what I described is not necessarily a tip. Though it might still involve such a type of voluntary tipping if the agreed upon specified service was rendered in such an amazing way that I gave a much larger amount than I would have otherwise for just an average or poor performance of the required service. Moreover there are also other types of tipping besides voluntary tipping that are mandatory payments called "mandatory tipping" that do not fit that particular definition. I'd suggest googling the topic. Similarly, as with this example and usage of the word tip:

"Social psychologist Mike Lynn also has a favourite tipping story, but it's a bit different. He was working at a fine dining restaurant during his student days when a customer called him over and slapped a pile of US $5 notes on the table. The customer declared the money was Lynn's tip, but that he'd take away one fiver for every time his glass went unfilled, his ashtray unemptied, or any other issue that arose. Lynn ended up pocketing a big tip."

[URL]https://www.intheblack.com/articles/2019/04/01/does-tipping-encourage-great-service[/URL]

Likewise I could slap a pile of 10 one thousand baht notes on the table and declare them a hooker's tips if she performed 10 certain services. For each one that she didn't do, I'd take away 1000 baht from her tips.

An upsell by a hooker is when she offers to sell an extra specific service for a set price, such as, for an example, anal for an additional 100 USD, beyond the initial specified set price for basic services, such as 300 USD, for a total of 400 USD. OTOH my offer of a tip differs from such an upsell in that it is not about me selling anything, but buying, and there may be no mention of setting a definite price amount for anything, including the pre tip basic services. So the final amount the PFP gal gets is up to me and may largely involve a "genuine heartfelt gift" as per your seemingly narrow definition of the word tipping.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2550154] However, negotiating / offering extra money for what should be services (like BBBJ, DFK, DATY) encourages the worst of behaviors in the girls. The a-la-carte sex is one of the most depressing aspects of paid sex, sadly common across the world. One major reason why people go to places like Thailand or The Philippines is precisely to avoid that, and have some illusion of a smooth sex session, rather than having to fight for every single thing, including taking off the bra.

I only tip if a girl has gone above and beyond, and never tell her beforehand I might tip her. Happens in maybe 20%-30% of the sessions in Thailand these days, and usually no more than token 100-200 baht. As for negotiation, I might ask to confirm if certain things (like BBBJ or 2 shots) are available, but don't offer extra money for them on top of the agreed on session price. If she doesn't do it, too bad, move on to the next one.[/QUOTE]Having been with dozens of Thai ladies I've never considered DFK, or kissing in general, as something they "should" do. Neither is it something they tended to voluntarily and spontaneously offer with a new client. In fact there was quite a bit of resistance to it from some, though some other gals were game when asked to engage in it. OTOH BBBJ IME has been usually performed without even a mention, though even that was not guaranteed in every case and I would not opine they are under any obligation to do that either. If I ever felt entitled to such as a jaded monger living for months at a time in LOS, I don't now. As for taking off their bra, I don't recall that ever being an issue. Usually the lady goes for a shower and comes out naked or with a towel on her which is soon removed, even if she claims to be shy. Concerning DATY, not personally interested, and ditto per my remarks re DFK.

Regarding your mode of operation, sir, to each their own. Whatever works for you. Different strokes for different folks. Best of luck. The fun has just begun.

"The poverty got to me. Seeing them with so little and struggling day to day. Was doing 'my part,' but was it enough? Wished I could be a native Robin Hood. Steal from the rich and give to the poor. The rich had so many loaves of bread they would go moldy. Would they miss them?

[URL]https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/tag/robin-hood[/URL]

Some people know what they're talking about.

Sometimes I mention the tip before hand though. "If you do a good job I'll tip you. " And I let her take it from there. It usually ends up in good service, but you can't really prove it's because of the tip because she might have preformed that way anyway.

[QUOTE=Crocodilexp;2550154]A promise of additional money for specific service beforehand is NOT a tip. It's an upsell. No idea why people insist on using "a tip" as a euphemism, but it's no more a tip than "un petit cadeau" given to a corrupt official to get out of trouble is a genuine heartfelt gift. Now, there's nothing wrong with negotiating before the session, some guys need to be clear on services provided (especially if it's something non-standard like A+) but let's call it for what it is.

However, negotiating / offering extra money for what should be services (like BBBJ, DFK, DATY) encourages the worst of behaviors in the girls. The a-la-carte sex is one of the most depressing aspects of paid sex, sadly common across the world. One major reason why people go to places like Thailand or The Philippines is precisely to avoid that, and have some illusion of a smooth sex session, rather than having to fight for every single thing, including taking off the bra.[/QUOTE]

Like it isn't obvious to what they are trying to do. Last year this time, 50 cases a day, everything is locked down, and curfew. Fast forward one year, 1500 cases a day. Only entertainment venues closed. Festivals going on and everything else open and suddenly the migrant workers are all clear and clean. They are targeting now. How desperate do they need foreign dollars?

[URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2021/04/16/phuket-urges-all-foreigners-who-went-to-nightlife-venues-that-held-large-parties-to-come-forward/?fbclid=IwAR2pjmTcTDSd9PFFZvQqPouUjsXf7DAsF8pA8V0xuWHtWfq2dNNEKNpbn80[/URL]

What's next? Have the Thai locals point out where all the tourists and foreigners are hiding?

[QUOTE=MonkeyPaw;2551662]Like it isn't obvious to what they are trying to do. Last year this time, 50 cases a day, everything is locked down, and curfew. Fast forward one year, 1500 cases a day. Only entertainment venues closed. Festivals going on and everything else open and suddenly the migrant workers are all clear and clean. They are targeting now. How desperate do they need foreign dollars?

[URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2021/04/16/phuket-urges-all-foreigners-who-went-to-nightlife-venues-that-held-large-parties-to-come-forward/?fbclid=IwAR2pjmTcTDSd9PFFZvQqPouUjsXf7DAsF8pA8V0xuWHtWfq2dNNEKNpbn80[/URL]

What's next? Have the Thai locals point out where all the tourists and foreigners are hiding?[/QUOTE]Honestly, it's reading this type of thing every other day that's made me scratch any plans to retire in Thailand. No thanks, would rather find somewhere where I am not viewed as a pest and can maintain a fair amount of dignity.

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2552016]Honestly, it's reading this type of thing every other day that's made me scratch any plans to retire in Thailand. No thanks, would rather find somewhere where I am not viewed as a pest and can maintain a fair amount of dignity.[/QUOTE]To date, the list is over 100 venues (and growing) named including well known spots frequented by foreigners like Soi 6 bars, Banglamung Police Station, Jomtien Immigration, Walking Street clubs, and LK Metro. Eventually it will be the entire Pattaya. It's pretty ridiculous because I don't see Bangkok putting out an extensive list like this. If you think about contact tracing on an infected person, even an asymptomatic (but still infected or not), it's pretty impossible to do exponentially. Is it just me that hits up 7-11 three times a day, but I don't see that on a list, WTF? They have even listed Sugar Baby Agogo which I don't even remember opening and same with that Ice Bar with the Polar Bear as well. My thoughts is this is a ploy to blame those who frequent entertainment venues (foreigners mainly), so that they can socially pressure them (us) into coming in and paying 3,800 baht for a COVID test. I even asked some the Thai workers whose jobs are at a few of the named places and they aren't getting COVID tests unless they are showing symptoms (at least the smart ones). But they want the foreigner to come in no matter what, sick or not. All the while, Kite Festival was going on and locals flocked to Koh Larn. Shifting blame seems to be the popular thing with those in charge. Farrangs, gamblers, migrants, and now those who enjoy entertainment are in the spotlight. You would have to test yourself multiple times in the span of 2 weeks to have some real assurance you aren't positive. This isn't syphilis we are talking about. With the threat of quarantine, I think they are scaring people into a self lockdown, without saying "lockdown." Just the same with they won't say "curfew" but all businesses closed between 11 pm-4 am. Now I feel like Anne Frank. Imagine if the local people ever got really educated here in Thailand.

[URL]https://thepattayanews.com/2021/04/18/timeline-chonburi-public-health-department-informs-people-who-visited-places-in-relation-to-chonburi-confirmed-covid-19-cases/[/URL]

[URL]https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hDdQ_dpPY9j8VKZxHfyxmsc6FcXXRpGh?usp=sharing[/URL]

[QUOTE=DazeUp;2552016]Honestly, it's reading this type of thing every other day that's made me scratch any plans to retire in Thailand. No thanks, would rather find somewhere where I am not viewed as a pest and can maintain a fair amount of dignity.[/QUOTE]This put a fork in it for me: [URL]https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/thai-health-minister-has-a-slash-at-dirty-farang[/URL].

SL.