General Reports

Opebo

While this may not be of concern to you, (I don't know your age), I can't understand 50+ y.o. English teachers without a pot to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in stuck here making 30,000/mo. at some third rate teaching job, with no thought of what's going to happen when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore. Thailand is full of these types.

Stuck in a job that makes you a virtual prisoner of Thailand because you can't afford to fly home makes you a fool, in my books.

I can tell you that, unless you've got savings when you aren't employable anymore, you'll be tossed out on your ass as the Thais won't let you stay here even if you have put in years and years of trying to teaching their little rug-rats how to speak English.

Using Thais as a comparison as you did is misleading. Firstly, Thais obviously can stay here and can live on a lot less than we do (They can buy a house with little down payment and can get 30 year mortgages, for example). They have a social safety net of sorts (their families and a somewhat inadequate social security/old age pension scheme). In stark contrast, most Farang are left to their own resources and therefore need to make more money and plan for the future. In my case, I'm fortunate that I'm in a job that pays relatively well, and has a very healthy co-op pension fund that actually pays dividends every year. I also am about to become a civil servant which means I won't be subject to the usual crap faced by most Farang. If I'm still here in 10 years, I'll be able to retire on a lousy Thai government pension, but thankfully with a reasonable uni pension. As a former government employee, I won't have to have whatever the current required bank account is for Farang retirees. Understandably, in this regard I am fortunate, as this is extremely rare for Farang.

So, I just wonder why you chose to stay here, in a dead-end job with little prospect of any kind for a decent future, and with no way home.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Opebo

While this may not be of concern to you, (I don't know your age), I can't understand 50+ y.o. English teachers without a pot to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in stuck here making 30,000/mo. at some third rate teaching job, with no thought of what's going to happen when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore. Thailand is full of these types.

Stuck in a job that makes you a virtual prisoner of Thailand because you can't afford to fly home makes you a fool, in my books.

I can tell you that, unless you've got savings when you aren't employable anymore, you'll be tossed out on your ass as the Thais won't let you stay here even if you have put in years and years of trying to teaching their little rug-rats how to speak English.

Using Thais as a comparison as you did is misleading. Firstly, Thais obviously can stay here and can live on a lot less than we do (They can buy a house with little down payment and can get 30 year mortgages, for example). They have a social safety net of sorts (their families and a somewhat inadequate social security/old age pension scheme). In stark contrast, most Farang are left to their own resources and therefore need to make more money and plan for the future. In my case, I'm fortunate that I'm in a job that pays relatively well, and has a very healthy co-op pension fund that actually pays dividends every year. I also am about to become a civil servant which means I won't be subject to the usual crap faced by most Farang. If I'm still here in 10 years, I'll be able to retire on a lousy Thai government pension, but thankfully with a reasonable uni pension. As a former government employee, I won't have to have whatever the current required bank account is for Farang retirees. Understandably, in this regard I am fortunate, as this is extremely rare for Farang.

So, I just wonder why you chose to stay here, in a dead-end job with little prospect of any kind for a decent future, and with no way home.[/QUOTE]

OTH,

I most certainly agree with you with respect to the Thai's being able to stretch less a lot further - you omitted the oft mentioned dual tier pricing which is another point in favour of that argument.

I've met several bar girls with my english speaking teacher friends who are utterly amazed by what they pay for rent etc..... (this doesn't apply so much to BKK I admit). Farangs have a particularly hard time negotiating a good deal... non Thai speaking farangs, even more so.

On the other hand, I do think you are laying it on a bit thick with respect to the salary thing. I am delighted for you that you draw a nice salary and have found the life you want, and, I have indeed heard of English teaching jobs that pay what you suggest.

Now, my Thailand circle of farang friends is mostly English teachers. About 2/3rds of them are university educated. About 2/3rds of them have TEFL qualifications. As far as I know, one of them has made it to 50k a month (salary only), and probably makes about the same in private lessons (are you including private lessons in the numbers you mention?).

I know of noone (not one person!) who is making more out of teaching English than that, and, she has worked her way up to that over the last 6 or 7 years.

Are you really saying that just about every farang (in my little sphere of experience, and, while I don't wish to speak for him, it sounds like Opebo's as well) has underestimated their financial worth to Thai schools by 100% or more?

If you can point me in the direction of some companies who offer high paying jobs which are fairly easy to get to foreigners, I'd be delighted (PM me if you like). Do note that if the jobs are not easy to get, then, you are talking about something entirely different. Every country in the world has very high paying jobs in every industry - they are just v difficult to come by.

I know one girl who has just done her TEFL and has been doing a little private tutoring in Europe who would be positively moist at the prospect of 60k+ monthly!!!

Blunderer

Actually I don't teach English.

Having a highly marketable specialty outside of English is the key. I've taught over 40 courses across a range of disciplines. I have almost 30 years experience in teaching concurrent with about 20 years in the private sector. You need qualifications, and the right qualifications beyond a BA and a TEFL or you're not going to get much.

But, having said that, I still think that you can work your way up even in English teaching and make connections and therefore the salary I'm talking about. But, you don't just get off the plane and get such a job unless you have good qualifications. But, that's true anywhere. If you've got a Masters in linguistics, or TESOL, for example you can easily get more than 60,000. If you have an MBA and especially a DBA or PhD you can get considerably more and work multiple jobs quite easily.

People with a TEFL, a useless BA or even a useless MA who whine about only making 35,000 don't understand that like anywhere, it's simply market forces. I know someone with only a BA, but in Design Technology, a high demand area who easily gets 65,000 and is in demand for part-time work in a variety of places.

Many unversities have international programs with a wide variety of disciplines all looking for foreign expertise. But, like anywhere, an MA in psychology or sociology or comparative literature, for example isn't exactly what they're looking for. But, if you've got a decent business degree, a degree in technology, or a design area you can easily get a good job here.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Blunderer
But, that's true anywhere. If you've got a Masters in linguistics, or TESOL, for example you can easily get more than 60,000. If you have an MBA and especially a DBA or PhD you can get considerably more and work multiple jobs quite easily.

People with a TEFL, a useless BA or even a useless MA who whine about only making 35,000 don't understand that like anywhere, it's simply market forces. I know someone with only a BA, but in Design Technology, a high demand area who easily gets 65,000 and is in demand for part-time work in a variety of places.
[/QUOTE]

OK, now I understand... you started by saying Opebo is a chump for working for 35k.

The big magic secret you had is that if you get a PhD or get into a specialised higher paying industry, you can make more money than in an industry with a relatively low educational barrier to entry.

You are of course quite right. Opebo you fat tossing loser, your priorities are massively screwed up... I don't understand why you haven't thought of this yourself. If you went somewhere and got trained as an astronaut you could make a fucking fortune on the Thai lecture circuit.

Sorry OTH, I am probably being a bit unnecessarily abrasive, but I actually thought this conversation could possibly end with some of us finding out something we didn't know before, only to turn a corner and walk under a tree and find that Captain Bleeding Obvious is sitting above me with a laser guided anvil aiming mechanism.

sorry for butting in, but I have a newbie question.

Haven't been to LOs for a while, and can't remember if they make a fuss about the year, serial number, cleanliness etc of US hundred dollar bills. So many SE Asia countires do, I just plain forget.

Can anyone enlighten me please?

[QUOTE=1Ball]sorry for butting in, but I have a newbie question.

Haven't been to LOs for a while, and can't remember if they make a fuss about the year, serial number, cleanliness etc of US hundred dollar bills. So many SE Asia countires do, I just plain forget.

Can anyone enlighten me please?[/QUOTE]

Don't know about dollars, 1Ball, but my experience of sterling is that older is better. The Bank of England introduced a new £20 note earlier this year, and I had serious problems getting it changed on my holiday in March/April. Even with the old-style notes on previous holidays, the newer ones were sometimes rejected. Thais seem nervous about new foreign currency.

Thanks TT, but in Indonesia and the Phils, they don't even accept US100 bills issued in 1996. So it might be the other way around. But I am not sure.

anyone?

Blunderer

What did you expect?

There are no magic set of beans, here. I never said that. If you've got the goods, you can make money here. If your qualifications are as common as muck, you can't. Unfortunately, Opebo falls into the second category. Yet he moans about making a paltry salary. As the Thais would say...sohm nahm naa.

English teachers worldwide make lousy money because their qualifications are considered of little value, comparatively speaking.

But tack on another degree that is marketable and then you can make money. For instance, I have a friend here who had a BA in English and a TEFL. He used to make only about 40,000 teaching English at a university, until he did an online MA in Education Technology. Now, suddenly he's making well over 100,000/month. He's currently doing an online MBA which will raise his value even more.

Also, common degrees in the US are still of value here. So a Farang with an MBA (especially from a good school like Thunderbird, Wharton, Kellogg, Harvard) can do very well here teaching, but would more likely be teaching at the community college level in the US, if he could get a teaching job at all.

The point is that there are lots of higher paid jobs teaching here for people with qualifications. The only reason that people like Opebo go on about the common salary for Farangs being around 30-35,000 is because the vast majority of Farang here can't make any more because they're not qualified to do so, not because the jobs and the salaries aren't there.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Blunderer
There are no magic set of beans, here. I never said that. If you've got the goods, you can make money here. If your qualifications are as common as muck, you can't.
[/QUOTE]

Yep - my fault, I thought you were implying that you knew of some sort of network of recruitment agencies or something that finds better paying jobs for decent English teachers. You never alluded to anything that was especially Thailand, I thought it was implicit that a discussion on a board about Thailand, would allude to something Thai specific, not just generally "in Thailand if you find a better job, you'll get more money", which, as far as I know, is true of everywhere on the planet.

I get the sense there's a bit of frustration or exasperation coming through from conversations the 2 of you may have had before, and, my misreading of that sentiment lead me to believe there were some nuggets of the non obvious variety lurking in the shadows waiting to be coaxed out.

To be honest though, I got such a childish kick out of my Caption Obvious metaphor, I will remember this whole discussion with absolute delight :D

[QUOTE=Blunderer]Yep - my fault, I thought you were implying that you knew of some sort of network of recruitment agencies or something that finds better paying jobs for decent English teachers.[/QUOTE]

There are websites that list jobs in Thailand for English teachers that give a full gambit in terms of salaries available. The best is [url]www.ajarn.com[/url]. The more general one for worldwide recruitment is Dave's ESL cafe, [url]www.eslcafe.com[/url].

You actually can't get a good English teaching job through an agency unless it's one of the agencies that recruit specifically for international schools here. Most of these agencies are in the UK. It's better to just do it yourself.

I actually do know where most of the best paying teaching jobs are here, even English teaching jobs. But, again at the risk of repeating myself, it's all about qualifications. At my uni English teachers have a terrible base salary of 25,000. But, most actually make well over 100,000 because they are assigned to courses in international programs which pay 2,000/hour tax free beyond their base salary. As well, many are doing consulting work for the Ministry of Education which pays obscene amounts of money for useless projects. These are the connections, "the Network" to which I alluded in one of my earlier posts. One needs to work the system and get connected. You just don't arrive and fall into this. Most of this extra work is tax free. Of my salary, I only pay taxes on less than half. The rest is viewed as tax-free government consulting.


With regards to Opebo; I might have helped him get something better, as he asked me once. But, he's a smart mouth who has pissed me off one too many times. So, as far as I'm concerned let him suffer in his little 2-bit job.

[QUOTE=1Ball]Thanks TT, but in Indonesia and the Phils, they don't even accept US100 bills issued in 1996. So it might be the other way around. But I am not sure.

anyone?[/QUOTE]
My experience with US$100 bills is in HK, the Phils and Europe, but I should think it applies to LOS too. Anything from before 2000 is highly likely to get turned down. Turns out some of these (like the 1996 series) are allegedly easier to forge. So when you're taking out US$100 bills at your local bank in the US, go over them closely and reject anything from before 2002 to be safe. Then from what's left, reject anything that's worn, marked, torn or otherwise defaced. Hope that helps.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...I can't understand 50+ y.o. English teachers without a pot to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in stuck here making 30,000/mo. at some third rate teaching job, with no thought of what's going to happen when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore. Thailand is full of these types.

Stuck in a job that makes you a virtual prisoner of Thailand because you can't afford to fly home makes you a fool, in my books.

So, I just wonder why you chose to stay here, in a dead-end job with little prospect of any kind for a decent future, and with no way home.[/QUOTE]

OTH, you imply that being poor is 'a choice'. It is not. People work for 30,000 - or whatever amount - because they must. I wonder if you, conversely, credit the wealthy as 'intelligent' for the fortune of their position in the hierarchy, just as you deride the workers for their misfortune.

I can assure you that going home would lead to even more dire financial conditions - life in America is no picnic.

You also stress that 'people with [x or y] qualification' can get such and so amount of money'. Well, that may be so. But it is a fact that the vast majority of farangs in Thailand work for 30-35K. I have never denied that a very small number make other amounts, but I do feel that it provides dangerous misinformation to suggest to prospective expats that they can expect to be in that top few percent.

[QUOTE=Opebo]
You also stress that 'people with [x or y] qualification' can get such and so amount of money'. Well, that may be so. But it is a fact that the vast majority of farangs in Thailand work for 30-35K.[/QUOTE]

O

They make that amount because the vast majority of Farang here are not qualified to make more.If you have the goods, you can make more. It's that simple.

The least I've ever made here was 50,000/mo and that was in 1997 when the baht was 25/$. For that, I worked 10-2 everyday.

Ok, now I do live in California where the salaries are higher, but if you are saying it is difficult to find a job in the U. S. (even if you are over 50) for over 1, 000 USD a year, I think you are wrong.

There are tons of jobs that pay 35-50k that require little or no education.

I make about 90k USD, and it's a decent salary, but I certainly know many, many people who make a lot more. Some aren't educated at all. I have an M. A. But it's not related to my field.

Perhaps you are underestimating yourself?

[QUOTE=Opebo]OTH, you imply that being poor is 'a choice'. It is not. People work for 30,000 - or whatever amount - because they must. I wonder if you, conversely, credit the wealthy as 'intelligent' for the fortune of their position in the hierarchy, just as you deride the workers for their misfortune.

I can assure you that going home would lead to even more dire financial conditions - life in America is no picnic.

You also stress that 'people with [x or y] qualification' can get such and so amount of money'. Well, that may be so. But it is a fact that the vast majority of farangs in Thailand work for 30-35K. I have never denied that a very small number make other amounts, but I do feel that it provides dangerous misinformation to suggest to prospective expats that they can expect to be in that top few percent.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Opebo]But it is a fact that the vast majority of farangs in Thailand work for 30-35K. [/QUOTE]Wow, I never realised that these Salaries were paid to the vast majority of Farangs. A lot of my thai employees make more than that.

Now, correct me if I am wrong but, no matter what Salary you earn (low level
5k to 50k) and declare, you need to pay taxes based on your home countrie's base minimum taxes right? isn't that what they ask you for during your visa claim? (before you start flaming me, it was just a question, I am not claiming to know this first hand)