God, Guns and Gritz, the orig OG of Trillion Dollar Coin
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959] ... Krugman resuscitated his idea in 2021, when Republicans were filibustering an increase in the debt limit. Jerry Nadler, Democratic Congressman, has been a big fan of the idea since Krugman introduced it.
All this is legal by the way, according to the legal scholars, although hare brained IMHO.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trillion-dollar_coin[/URL]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/biden-coin-democrat-republican-debt-limit.html[/URL]
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Democratic Party partisans and politicians own this idea, lock, stock and barrel. [/QUOTE] Not so fast young gun!
Yes I'd initially looked at and did read, both those articles (Wiki, NYT) and they do have Krugman as "agreeing to the idea", but not the progenitor of the idea. Note in the NYT article, he was simply asked the question, "[if the fed]...should be willing to mint the coin [u]to avoid default[/u]", to which he answered, "Yes, absolutely!".
BTW, I'd think, even you Tiny 12, can understand, that under duress from the seemingly callous and indifferent Repubs, to the country going down in flames from a debt default, the Dems were
simply entertaining ideas, save the country a possible catastrophe. Much like today, with the crazy political shenanigans of the MAGA Repubs.
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959] Spidy, Actually the idea originally came from some guy posting on the internet who went by the name Beowulf, and his buddies. Krugman adopted the idea and it took off. Beowulf probably felt like this guy.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc[/URL][/QUOTE]
Yes, that is a classic Fed Ex commercial. I enjoyed the chuckle!
But I'm not sure it helps your case and perhaps highlights your possible attempt to gaslight the post from EihTooms, showing Mr. Gritz as the earliest progenitor of the idea.
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2859959]
That's kind of like giving the first century inventor Heron of Alexandria credit for creation of the engine Tooms. I doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz. And from my post you should know I think it's a nutty idea. But hey, I understand. You have enough sense to know it's nutty too so are trying to pawn the blame off on anyone but a Democrat.
[URL]https://www.wired.com/2013/01/trilli...coin-inventor/[/URL]
Democrats developed the idea as a way of forcing Republicans to increase the debt limit. I dont understand how you can argue with that.
Gritzs idea wouldnt have worked anyway. In 1992 the Mint could only issue coins up to a $50 denomination. The law wasnt changed to allow issuance of platinum coins in any denomination until 1996.
[/QUOTE]
Oh really Tiny 12! Methinks, that's just more creative gaslighting.
Fact: EihTooms post of Mr. Gritz (in 1992), unequivocally predates all the Beowolf (the Georgian Lawyer, named Carlos Mucha) known article references.
The fact that YOU, [i]"doubt Beowulf and his band of brothers had ever heard of Bo Gritz",[/i] is besides the point entirely and does call into question your powers of observation or deduction. As it is very very plausible [i]"Beowulf and his band of brothers"[/i] knew about Mr. Gritz, after all he, Mr. Gritz, did run in 1992 for President under the slogan: "God, Guns and Gritz,"
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2859890] Spidy, you are closer to being right about that than is Tiny.
Neither a Dem nor Paul Krugman came up with the idea.
It was Bo Gritz in 1992, a Third Party candidate Tiny would have loved given his Third Party affiliation while maintaining a demonstrably pro Repub stance and agenda:
[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz [/URL][/QUOTE]
Kudos! Yes, your post has the oldest know date thus far of the inception of the coin idea being floated.
Many of the articles, have the inventor of the idea, originating with Beowolf (the Georgeian Lawyer, named Carlos Mucha) as noted in the link below from [b]Intelligencer[/b], which is probably the best (better than the Tiny's Wired ref.), that I've read on the topic thus far and actually names "Beowlf" as Carlos Mucha.
[b]The Man Who Invented the Trillion-Dollar Coin An Atlanta lawyer was just spitballing....[/b]
[URL]https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/the-man-who-invented-the-trillion-dollar-coin.html[/URL]
BTW, Tiny 12, the [b]"God, Guns and Gritz,"[/b], slogan of Mr. Gritz, is very Republican of him, don't you think?
CBDCs will result in loss of freedoms
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860049]Or maybe make everyone turn in all their paper money and coins, and issue digital currency in its place. Everyone would carry a digital wallet the government could track. And when you turn in your paper money to get your digital wallet, the banks would report any large amounts, say over $600, to the IRS, so they can make use of the extra $60 billion the politicians allocated to the agency recently. Then maybe hook the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms in with the IRS, so that when the IRS goes hunting for the cash turned in by the criminals and the tax cheaters, the ATF can confiscate their guns at the same time. (Just kidding!)[/QUOTE]I fear digital money. And although I am a fan of crypto, I am in fear of CBDC. I use cash for POS transactions as much as possible. It is untraceable. I acknowledge that as world traveler, digital transfers of money are unavoidable. But once you get it off shore and adhere to certain limits and reporting requirements, you can drop the money you move into the system off the grid. That is, if you know what you are doing.
Anyone looking at Third Party candidates in 1992 knew about Bo Gritz
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860313]Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, is a Democrat. He's more partisan than you are.
[URL]https://twitter.com/mucha_carlos?lang=en[/URL]
Krugman popularized the idea. James K. Gabraith, another Democrat economist, and Lawrence Tribe, a Democrat attorney, did as well, but this would have never attracted attention if Krugman hadn't gotten behind it.
[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/07/be-ready-to-mint-that-coin/[/URL]
[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/09/barbarous-relics/[/URL]
[URL]https://archive.nytimes.com/krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/01/10/thinking-about-the-brink/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.huffpost.com/entry/paul-krugman-trillion-dollar-coin_n_2427160[/URL]
[URL]https://twitter.com/paulkrugman/status/1653739546800971776[/URL]
[URL]https://fortune.com/2023/05/03/paul-krugman-biden-mint-trillion-dollar-coin-other-option-national-debt-ceiling/[/URL]
Nobody who matters ever heard of Bo Gritz. Many a tin pot dictator in South America and Africa did what Bo Gritz proposed, only it involved printing paper instead of minting coins. Gritz's proposal wouldn't have passed muster with the courts in 1992 when he ran for president, and none of the Democrats who popularized the trillion dollar coin were influenced by the guy.
Rashida Tlaib proposed minting two trillion dollar platinum coins to pay $2000 up front and $1000 per month every month to most Americans until a year after COVID ended. Presumably that would have been $4,000 a month for a family of four even if the husband and wife were employed.
[URL]https://tlaib.house.gov/posts/common-dreams-two-1-trillion-coins-rashida-tlaib-proposal-calls-on-us-treasury-to-fund-coronavirus-recovery-from-us-mint[/URL]
Gritz was a nut case. Thus you feel compelled to label him as pro Republican and label me as one of his supporters. Well, at least you're smart enough to know the idea, the trillion dollar platinum coin, is nutty.
You should have just argued that, despite the support of Krugman, Jerry Nadler, Tlaib and some other Democrats, this is a fringe idea that neither the Obama nor Biden Administrations supported. I would have agreed with you. And as to "protecting anyone else reading your unsupported suggestion," you, Spidy and I are probably the only ones reading these posts. I've given up on converting both of you. I do though still pray to the Saints of Classical Liberalism (Hayek, Friedman, von Mises and Ronald Reagan) for your immortal souls from time to time.
And I'm making a bigger deal of this than I should too. Spidy mistakenly called the trillion dollar platinum coin idea a Republican idea and it wasn't. It was a Democrat idea, to be able to bypass Republicans to increase the debt limit. You guys could have gracefully admitted the mistake but instead came up with a bizarre line of reasoning that makes Sidney Powell's theories about the 2020 election look reasonable.[/QUOTE]But Beowolf did not come up with the idea. The Repub Party's spiritual twin Bo Gritz did.
Many people who were paying attention in 1992 knew about Bo Gritz. Even about his magic coin idea, dumb enough to only come from a Repub mindset.
I knew about him and his magic coin idea in 1992 because at that time I still had a bit of numbskull "Bothsider / Neithersider" lingering in me so I was looking for a Third Party alternative. Not as much numbskull mindset as whatever possessed me to vote for Teflon Ronnie in 1980. But some. In fact, I voted for a Third Party candidate in 1992.
That is why I knew to look up Bo Gritz as the likely originator of that magic coin idea. I remembered it coming from him. And I remember thinking then that his ideas were so stupid and in line with the way Repubs think he really ought to run more honestly as a Repub.
Today, Bo Gritz, exactly as he was in 1992, saying exactly the same things in the same way, proposing exactly those same Repub ideas would be ahead of Trump, DeSantis, Haley and the rest by at least 70 points in the Repub Party POTUS Nominee polling consensus.
There is BTC and then everything else
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]I don't understand it, but intuitively fear it too. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's kind of like the digital wallet in my post? It's the government keeping track of the money in your account, not your bank? [/QUOTE]That is exactly it! The government will have either direct access to your CBDC account or it will be a pass through of information through the banks. GOVs have a lot of hurdles to work through because if they do it wrong they will put the banks out of business. My best guess is that they are going to attack crypto at the off ramps and by making it illegal to hold crypto directly. They probably want to make banks the official custodians of all money. GOVs fear crypto more than gold or silver. Gold and silver are hard to move. Crypto is the first medium of exchange where you can self custody and move it at the speed to light, without and intermediary. Right now there is very low adoption. That is the only reason GOVs are not really paying attention to crypto. But as more people wake up to the fiat currency scam, you are going to see crypto get a lot more attention.
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]That's probably wise. I don't because I'm lazy and want the frequent flyer points that come with card charges. Which admittedly may be penny wise and pound foolish.[/QUOTE]We all have our priorities and I will never tell people how to use their money. But over in the [I]Pattaya Reports[/I] thread there is a mother fucker who says he uses bank transfers to pay prostitutes. Nah brother. I pay cash. Even law enforcement agencies say that if you are engaged in illegal activities you should use cash. Anything else they say they can track down.
[URL]https://cointelegraph.com/news/secret-service-praise-blockchain-reddit-ama/amp[/URL]
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]I don't understand or entirely trust crypto. If you just use bank accounts like I do, there's really no legal way. And no illegal way I'd feel comfortable with. I like to sleep well at night.[/QUOTE]I understand crypto but do not entirely trust all crypto. There is BTC and everything else.
I do not engage in illegal financial activities of any type. It is legal to own crypto. You must report your activities to the IRS (if pay taxes in the USA). But if you put your crypto into a cold wallet and then store it some place, that does not require any reporting until you use it for something, sell or transfer it. Just check the box on your tax return to avoid lying on a report to the USGOV.
But the GOVs in general have a problem. They must rely on self reporting. Because if you transfer your crypto directly to someone else by operating your own full node (computer and software that costs about 300 - 400 USD) the only footprint that is left is on the blockchain of the crypto itself. Use a coin mixer and it is becomes impossible to trace. Like dropping your crypto into a black hole. The problem is for the average individual is that it takes a lot of research and knowledge to pull this all off (I have done the research and I know what I am doing). Some may think, well why would you be doing this if you are not doing something illegal? Why do you pay prostitutes in cash in countries where prostitution is legal?
[B]The defense rests.[/B]
[QUOTE=Tiny12;2860301]The penalties for failing to file the FBAR reporting foreign bank accounts are too severe -- they can take several times the maximum value in your account and put you in jail.[/QUOTE]Let me give you a hypothetical: You transfer money to your foreign bank below the allowed limits. Then you take the money out of your account in cash (USD or the foreign currency of the country where you are banking) and put it into safe keeping. Can you tell me how that is illegal or a violation of the foreign bank account reporting standards?
I am not taking issue with you my ISG brother. I am making an attempt to share information and make people think.
Repub Guilty "Coin" Conscience?
[QUOTE=Tiny 12;2860313]And I'm making a bigger deal of this than I should too. [b]Spidy mistakenly called the trillion dollar platinum coin idea a Republican idea[/b] and it wasn't. It was a Democrat idea, to be able to bypass Republicans to increase the debt limit. You guys could have gracefully admitted the mistake but instead came up with a bizarre line of reasoning that makes Sidney Powell's theories about the 2020 election look reasonable. [/QUOTE] Talk about hopeless! (...kkkk!) No you'd be wrong again! I never called the Repubs, the progenitor of the coin idea.
Here is what I wrote:
[QUOTE=Spidy;2859614] ... Speaking of "fairy tales", what ever happened to the one about the [b]"One (1) Trillion dollar coin"[/b] (Repubs love to mint in their heads), that could simply payoff the federal debt?
I seem to hear this one, every time a Repub President takes office and then proceeds to astronomically run up the federal debt, on their way to yet another Repub recession, and every Repub and their dog, seems to think that this mystical coin is the answer.
Any Repub economists (or anyone really), care to explain how this would work?[/QUOTE] Tiny 12, to be clear, no where in my initial post do I say that Repubs, are the progenitor of the coin idea. I only stated they (ISG Repubs) often loved to "float" idea.
I was simply saying, I thought I had remembered that Repubs (meaning and mainly referring to the [b]"ISG Republican pseudo economists"[/b], w/r to past forum discussions on the topic, whom), just loved to float the coin idea, as a solution to the debt problem. I seem to remember them bringing it up all the time. And then I asked, how would it work?
Tiny 12, I submit, it was you, who then [b]twisted and put a spin on the articles[/b] you put forth, as the Dems being the progenitor of the coin idea. And then later declared Beowulf, aka Carlos Mucha, as the one. Yes, those articles have some Dems agreeing to the idea of using "a coin" idea in one way or another, to solve a crisis (often Repub made), but [u]NOT the progenitor[/u] of the coin idea.
EihTooms, then presented evidence, that clearly rebuts your arguments and [u]clearly predates ALL your findings[/u] and conclusively thus far, squarely points the finger at Mr. Bo Gritz ("a closet Republican"), being the progenitor of the coin idea.
So with Mr. Gritz (the "closet Repub" wannabe) as the clear front runner to the progenitor of the coin idea, thus far, prompted me, in jest, to create more Repub folklore, [i]"GOP Lord of the Coins"[/i]. Since, after all Mr. Gritz, is really a Republican, even if he is still in the closet.
On your very own, Tiny 12, YOU were the one who [b]jumped[/b] to the conclusion, I said, [b]"Republicans created the trillion dollar coin idea"[/b], albeit perhaps from a Repub guilty conscience? Knowing that Repubs are most often guilty and responsible for so much nutty duress on the US economy and political health of the country?
