Thai Women - Opinions & Advice

[QUOTE=Giotto]
One girl (one of our dancers) was stopped working approx. 6 months ago, and she will be back today. The relationship has obviously calmed down, and the money flow is not as expected. She was promised to get a new house at her home village, so she broke down the old one. Now she still waits for the money to build that new house, and waits, and waits - and the family has no place to stay at the moment. That's what she told us - and of course you can never know whether this is the truth or not...
[/QUOTE]
I heard this one before.
Its usually the girl's fault, I would think. They have no idea of how to get the "FULL" cost estimate. Until she has the full cost safely locked away, obviously the project cannot be commenced, as the guy may change his mind especially when the cost starts escalating and he is getting nothing much in return.

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]I heard this one before.
Its usually the girl's fault, I would think. They have no idea of how to get the "FULL" cost estimate. Until she has the full cost safely locked away, obviously the project cannot be commenced, as the guy may change his mind especially when the cost starts escalating and he is getting nothing much in return.[/QUOTE]

Any farang who gets involved in a construction project of a house in Thailand......soon loses interest. He can't own the land....and therfore doesn't own the house. Unless you use a nominee corp. (illegal)...the house must be in the girl's name. After the farang gets caught up in the construction over-runs (you are 100% right that the average girl has no ability to calculate real cost opposed to Thai bullshit initial estimate).....the money train ends. Just another Thai story of life in the small city.

The may be better suited for another forum in the ISG but I believe my thoughts would be beneficial here. Gentlemen, please consider this when contemplating returning to your native "First-World" country with your Thai lady ("significant other", "significant other/future spouse, or just plain spouse, it is usually immaterial! ).

To not identify particular women/countries (as, in my opinion, they are all "guilty as sin" to more/lesser extent) I will use my "pet" phrase of "Caucasia (ians)" as to mean single/"available" women who inhabit "First-World" Western countries (Caucasia).

Let me first state that, with globalization becoming more of a reality, the situation I will speak about, hopefully, will be less of a problem in the future and, I were the "King of the world" would be a "non-factor" as of yesterday!

I firmly believe that Caucasian women play the old "double standard" reacting shamefully regarding their opinions/actions regarding men who choose the "mail-order bride" route (I know I am dating myself, but please indulge me! ).

The mindset of many "available" Caucasian women is that if, Caucasian men do not "make the grade". That is, for whatever reason (s), we are not "attractive"(defined as being too poor, too fat, too short, too old, bad dresser, "unsmooth" personality"-the list is endless! ) enough to deserve to have emotional/physical relationships with THEM ONLY! For these unforgivable attributes, it is thought by many Caucasian women, we should all die lonely and horny.

Thinking outside this sphere (or, as I like to call it, "the box") is not an option, according to Caucasian women, as we must accept our WELL-DESERVED fate with them "calling the shots".

Bringing a "mail-order bride" back to Caucasia is nothing short of taking the cheap, dirty and easy way out of your intended destiny! The fact that you are happy (now enjoying companionship that you have a measure (varying) of control over and, hopefully, frequent and great sex) does not fit in the equation as you, by not playing by Caucasian women's convoluted rules, have flunked the test!

Congratulations! You have just graduated from being a pathetic "loser" to being a pathetic "loser" who now is on the "A-List" for "Pimp 'n Ho" party invites!

As you intoduce your "main squeeze" around and explain the particulars get use to cold chills, nervous laughs and the fake "Cheshire Cat" smiles. You took the "easy way out" and that is unforgiveable in a capitalistic society that only recognizes challenges and successes.

And I will not even get into the "physical appearance" disconnect as it varies by location.

The Cardinal sin we commit, according to many Caucasian women, is we "quit" the, what I like to call, "Futile Dating Debacle" and, as we all are told, "winners never quit and quitters never win". SO THERE!

It is easy to delude ourselves by thinking that my Thai lady and I will build a "force field" around the judgmental society around us but don't buy it! Unless we live like hermits in a vacuum (no external people interactions of ANY kind). The negative vibes will put a real strain on an already awkward situation ("different" looking lady in a strange/frightening new culture).

Think about it!

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Your premise is extremely faulty. This isn't 15th century Ayutthaya.

Thais are faced with pressure to compete regionally and globally and simply can't. For example, the Vietnamese (with a similar climate and culture), but having survived decades of war, kick the shit out of the Thais on all levels. The Thais' laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude, results in an inability to cope with too much before they melt-down. In a fast-paced and modern world, from which they can't escape, their "good enough" approach to most things makes them ill-equipped to produce anything of real quality. I deal with this on a daily basis. My students, who are the best and the brightest, still pale by comparison not only to students anywhere in the West, but even when compared to those from India, Vietnam, and Korea.

Several studies have also revealed that stress among Thais is extremely high as are resultant suicide rates.

So much for your "relatively stress free" life.[/QUOTE]OTH

Re-examining your statement on Thai suicide rate - please look up wiki: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_suicide_rate[/url]. While this chart is somewhat imperfect it does question you assertion about high suicide rates in Thailand.

Also I wasn't implying that Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude was acceptable, actually I make no judgement on that at all but I was simply trying to show that maybe there are historical reasons for this Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]An interesting read. But, I don't think it totally relates to the topic at hand. The discussion has primarily focused on a Farang taking a TG to his home country as a companion or more and usually with some sort of lack of understanding of the reality of it all. While I'm sure issues faced my migrant workers are quite similar, the difference is that they usually go to another country (such as the UK, Israel, Dubai etc.) solo and to work. It's also often a temporary thing with plans to eventually return home.

But, issues of culture shock, loneliness and disconnection are the same in both instances.[/QUOTE]

You appear not to have read the article properly. It is a study of the [i]general[/i] Thai migrant population in the UK (or, rather, specific target areas of the UK).

The discussion on this thread was about whether or not Thai women can adapt to a foreign culture when introduced to that culture by their farang partners. And this discussion is frequently started by someone asking on here if that scenario can work.

The article contains plenty of [i]actual information[/i] obtained from migrant Thai spouses living in the UK about their perceptions and how they are adapting/coping. And that information tells us that, for the most part, they do adapt, but with plenty of insecurities and difficulties.

So, there we have it. Now we don't have to theorise our preconceptions about why these women will/won't adapt in a foreign culture: We have plenty of facts 'straight from the horse's mouth'.

[QUOTE=Sfifred]OTH

Re-examining your statement on Thai suicide rate - please look up wiki: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_suicide_rate[/url]. While this chart is somewhat imperfect it does question you assertion about high suicide rates in Thailand.

Also I wasn't implying that Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude was acceptable, actually I make no judgement on that at all but I was simply trying to show that maybe there are historical reasons for this Thai laid-back, 'mai pen rai' attitude.[/QUOTE]

You're citing wikipedia as a credible source??? Well, anyway all I know is that over the years I've witnessed an incredible amount of stories of suicide in the Thai news media and the stress of modern life and the high suicide rate are often discussed on news shows here.

[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]You appear not to have read the article properly. It is a study of the [i]general[/i] Thai migrant population in the UK (or, rather, specific target areas of the UK).

The discussion on this thread was about whether or not Thai women can adapt to a foreign culture when introduced to that culture by their farang partners. And this discussion is frequently started by someone asking on here if that scenario can work.

The article contains plenty of [i]actual information[/i] obtained from migrant Thai spouses living in the UK about their perceptions and how they are adapting/coping. And that information tells us that, for the most part, they do adapt, but with plenty of insecurities and difficulties.

So, there we have it. Now we don't have to theorise our preconceptions about why these women will/won't adapt in a foreign culture: We have plenty of facts 'straight from the horse's mouth'.[/QUOTE]

I'll re-read it.

[QUOTE=Lexb]The may be better suited for another forum in the ISG but I believe my thoughts would be beneficial here. Gentlemen, please consider this when contemplating returning to your native "First-World" country with your Thai lady ("significant other", "significant other/future spouse, or just plain spouse, it is usually immaterial! ).

To not identify particular women/countries (as, in my opinion, they are all "guilty as sin" to more/lesser extent) I will use my "pet" phrase of "Caucasia (ians)" as to mean single/"available" women who inhabit "First-World" Western countries (Caucasia).

Let me first state that, with globalization becoming more of a reality, the situation I will speak about, hopefully, will be less of a problem in the future and, I were the "King of the world" would be a "non-factor" as of yesterday!

I firmly believe that Caucasian women play the old "double standard" reacting shamefully regarding their opinions/actions regarding men who choose the "mail-order bride" route (I know I am dating myself, but please indulge me! ).

The mindset of many "available" Caucasian women is that if, Caucasian men do not "make the grade". That is, for whatever reason (s), we are not "attractive"(defined as being too poor, too fat, too short, too old, bad dresser, "unsmooth" personality"-the list is endless! ) enough to deserve to have emotional/physical relationships with THEM ONLY! For these unforgivable attributes, it is thought by many Caucasian women, we should all die lonely and horny.

Thinking outside this sphere (or, as I like to call it, "the box") is not an option, according to Caucasian women, as we must accept our WELL-DESERVED fate with them "calling the shots".

Bringing a "mail-order bride" back to Caucasia is nothing short of taking the cheap, dirty and easy way out of your intended destiny! The fact that you are happy (now enjoying companionship that you have a measure (varying) of control over and, hopefully, frequent and great sex) does not fit in the equation as you, by not playing by Caucasian women's convoluted rules, have flunked the test!

Congratulations! You have just graduated from being a pathetic "loser" to being a pathetic "loser" who now is on the "A-List" for "Pimp 'n Ho" party invites!

As you intoduce your "main squeeze" around and explain the particulars get use to cold chills, nervous laughs and the fake "Cheshire Cat" smiles. You took the "easy way out" and that is unforgiveable in a capitalistic society that only recognizes challenges and successes.

And I will not even get into the "physical appearance" disconnect as it varies by location.

The Cardinal sin we commit, according to many Caucasian women, is we "quit" the, what I like to call, "Futile Dating Debacle" and, as we all are told, "winners never quit and quitters never win". SO THERE!

It is easy to delude ourselves by thinking that my Thai lady and I will build a "force field" around the judgmental society around us but don't buy it! Unless we live like hermits in a vacuum (no external people interactions of ANY kind). The negative vibes will put a real strain on an already awkward situation ("different" looking lady in a strange/frightening new culture).

Think about it![/QUOTE]

I think, simply said, girls look at a guy in "Caucasia" with a girlfriend/fiancee/wife from a third world country as being a loser who couldn't get the local quality and had to resort to the import process. I agree they would want you to suffer and die as an un-happy worker bee and you beat the system by your process. They will always believe that you couldn't score because you are not a saleable item. Let's face it, Thailand and other Asian countries are a bit different from the rest of the world in that you really need no game (at all) to get a pretty decent looking lady. Try mongering or looking for bride material in South America for example. You will need a lot more skills to reach success, for example language, personal appearance, grooming, and mabe a bit of "play" to move the situation to the next level. In the end though, who cares what the ladies in Caucasia think.....enjoy your life to the best of your ability and let them wallow in their prejudice.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]In the end though, who cares what the ladies in Caucasia think.....enjoy your life to the best of your ability and let them wallow in their prejudice.[/QUOTE]I'll drink a few [i]bia Sings[/i] to that!

And tonight I'll have a great meal and massage provided by my sweet Thai partner! In turn, I just have to contribute a few Baht to send home to "ma" and the kid every month back on the farm. And I'd very happily do this for my Irish-American "ma" too if she was not so independent and stubborn!

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2] Let's face it, Thailand and other Asian countries are a bit different from the rest of the world in that you really need no game (at all) to get a pretty decent looking lady.[/QUOTE]

It depends on what quality of "lady" you're talking about. In fact, it can take quite a bit of effort to get a good-looking non-P4P TG.

I don't want to make assumptions about anyone here. But, let's face it. The vast majority of people reading this board and posting have only ever met impoverished girls working in P4P and from that have formed opinions of Thai women which are completely false and highly skewed, to say the least. In general, excluding P4P, Thai women are sexually repressed because the culture is sexually repressed. So, if one does encounter a "regular" TG who's an easy lay, she's most probably a bit sketchy in one way or another, not that "regular", as it turns out, and thus probably not worth hanging onto for anything other than a bit of fun.

If one is content with P4P, or the fuzzy fringes of semi-pros who try to pass for regular TGs, then your opinion is absolutely correct.

But, if one wishes to move into the general population of Thai women, who are truly representative of the reality of the culture, it becomes a whole new ballgame. It can and does sometimes take as much, if not more time, money and effort to get a good-looking regular Thai woman, as it does to get a woman in the US, for example. And, just like American (or British or Canadian or Australian etc. etc.) they too can be ball-busters during the process.

The only difference is that once you're "in", the rewards are greater because unlike a Western woman, a Thai woman won't subject you to all that post-Germaine Grier femi-Nazi nonsense one often encounters "back home".

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]If one is content with P4P, or the fuzzy fringes of semi-pros who try to pass for regular TGs, then your opinion is absolutely correct.[/QUOTE]

That is generally what I was talking about.....the "fuzzy fringes". Being introspective about this, I think I prefer the fuzzy fringes under most circumstances. I think the fuzzy fringe can intrude into the periphery of 9-5 society at times in Thailand (for economic and religious reasons), hence the reason so many guys are surprised what happens with certain girls they thought were "good" (I have been one of them)....but they were really in the fuzzy fringe. In South America and a few other places.....even the outskirt of this fringe cannot be penetrated without some personal skills that I have outlined before. True P4P can even be difficult to obtain under many circumstances for the challenged in some areas. It is my opinion that in Thailand the P4P and fuzzy fringes can be had by a guy with no play.....this same guy would have a nighmare in some other areas where the P4P and fringe girls are less and have beliefs which might exclude many who are successful in Thailand. Do you agree?

I do agree with your comments (and maybe stand corrected) in that a real "catch" in Thailand might take a lot more skill and patience. This catch would mean a woman who was no where near the fringe.....almost on a throne of never needing money or help from outside her family and hence she can be very selective....similar to western world situations.

The thing about Thailand (IMHO)....is that the east Indian, Thai borne lady presented to me as ultra-hiso....who went to school in Great Britian, spoke fluent English (real English not Thaiglish)...had a ton of cash and drove a Mercedes...was really in the fuzzy fringe in a lot of ways once I got invoved with her. Thailand is a tough place because this fuzzy fringe can be huge and might encompass more of the general population than some are willing to admit.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]It depends on what quality of "lady" you're talking about. In fact, it can take quite a bit of effort to get a good-looking non-P4P TG.[/quote]True. However Looks play a big role here. If you are not properly dressed and do not speak Thai, your chances are VERY slim.

[quote]But, if one wishes to move into the general population of Thai women, who are truly representative of the reality of the culture, it becomes a whole new ballgame. It can and does sometimes take as much, if not more time, money and effort to get a good-looking regular Thai woman, as it does to get a woman in the US, for example.[/quote]

I would even go as far as saying that it will take you MORE effort to land a Good looking TG rather than a girl in your home country.

In my opinion (and I am only talking for myself here), it is not worth the effort unless you are looking for long term Relationship/Marriage. There are a lot of girls (non P4P, non Semi-pro [whatever that means]) that are ready to go out with Farangs for a fun and good time.

I had a date last night with the Shampoo girl from my HairSalon, we had a lot of fun and she ended up Staying the night in my condo.

[quote]The only difference is that once you're "in", the rewards are greater because unlike a Western woman, a Thai woman won't subject you to all that post-Germaine Grier femi-Nazi nonsense one often encounters "back home".[/QUOTE]I do not have enough Experience to judge this as All the girlfriends I had before Thailand were not "Femi-nazi", but I can tell you that I had 2 serious relationship with Thai Girls and that is has its fair share of Headaches.

[QUOTE=Lover Boy #2]Thailand is a tough place because this fuzzy fringe can be huge and might encompass more of the general population than some are willing to admit.[/QUOTE]

This may seem to contradict what I previously said (sexually repressed...etc. etc.) and I do believe in what I wrote about. But, I also agree with you on this because of the many layers and intracacies of the issue. It's the general complexity of Thai culture and therefore Thai women as a part of the large doses of hypocricy that exist within Thai culture - lots of gray areas, lots of secrets. Add to this, that IMO, Thais lack a moral centre and it can sometimes be a slippery slope. Say what you will about Judeao-Christian guilt combined with morality and hard-core ethics; I think it has given westerners at least a strong understanding of honesty and integrity even if we don't always follow the tenets of it all 100%. Thais flat out simply lack this.

There's been lots written in the past about the issue of lying within Thai culture - the fact that Thais do it as a matter of course. Thai women are consumate liars. It is so embedded in the culture that they can't even recognize when they're doing it. So, the dishonesty and corruption that is so pervasive in the culture as a whole is rarely identified, despite the fact that they all make oblique references to it as something that is bad, while enthusiastically practicing it. I witness it so much on a daily basis, that I've become almost numbed by it. A little off topic, but still an example...yesterday I was in a meeting during which my Thai female boss blatantly lied, or perhaps just creatively re-engineered the history of a certain event in which I was a key figure and did so while I was sitting directly opposite her. There would have been a time when I would have called her on it, particularly because it was SO obvious. But, I decided to just let her run with the lie, because she said it with such amazing conviction, that I'm sure it is exactly how she remembered it and what's worse it was so convincing that I started to doubt my own belief in the truth - LOL.

Anyway, all of this contributes to the that "fuzzy fringe"..... OK, now I'm just waiting for some wag to make a joke about the "fuzzy fringe" - ah there - hopefully I've pre-empted it. :D

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...A little off topic, but still an example...yesterday I was in a meeting during which my Thai female boss blatantly lied, or perhaps just creatively re-engineered the history of a certain event in which I was a key figure and did so while I was sitting directly opposite her. There would have been a time when I would have called her on it, particularly because it was SO obvious. But, I decided to just let her run with the lie, because she said it with such amazing conviction, that I'm sure it is exactly how she remembered it and what's worse it was so convincing that I started to doubt my own belief in the truth - LOL.[/QUOTE]

Oh yes, looks like even you have come around to the *asian* way of doing things... ;) (just pokin' at ya OTH!)

The 're-engineering' of the history of that certain event, if I could offer a mere guess, would have been for the 'benefit' (or your female boss' perceived 'benefit') to your organization, or at least to give herself and/or her department (which includes you) some 'face' to those present at the meeting. Your female boss would have had an irretrievable loss of face should you have 'called her on it' during the meeting and I would hate to imagine the consequences of that disaster...

I'm sure this happens more often than people would admit, even in the Western world.... also reminds me of a line in some Hollywood movie (can't remember which one) that I would use to poke fun at friends in the legal profession:

"I'm a lawyer, the truth is irrelevant!"

[QUOTE=Raverboy]Oh yes, looks like even you have come around to the *asian* way of doing things... ;) (just pokin' at ya OTH!)[/QUOTE]

That's ok. It's true that I've succumbed to a certain extent. I've finally realized that in a very strong, anti-Farang environment, nothing is to be gained by being "un-Thai" (i.e. actually have the nerve to question something). The Thais don't respect Farang, hold us in contempt, at the best of times and won't listen to us even though (and especially because) we know more than they do and are actually capable of a level of competence unheard among Thais. Now, I'm just learning to go with the flow and it seems to help keep me below the radar, which is all I want at this stage in my life.


[QUOTE=Raverboy]The 're-engineering' of the history of that certain event, if I could offer a mere guess, would have been for the 'benefit' (or your female boss' perceived 'benefit') to your organization, or at least to give herself and/or her department (which includes you) some 'face' to those present at the meeting. Your female boss would have had an irretrievable loss of face should you have 'called her on it' during the meeting and I would hate to imagine the consequences of that disaster...[/QUOTE]

Spot on. It's all about "show without substance" (the cornerstone of Thai culture) and specifically, in this case to enhance my boss' image at my expense.

Bringing this back to some relevance...it's all about face and taking care of oneself, and that's why they all lie; whether it's some HiSo *****, like my boss or the lowliest Isaan bargirl. Same same. In fact, lack of honesty and integrity increases the higher up you go on the food chain. The HiSo garbage that run this country lie to agrandise themselves at the great expense of others. BGs merely lie, most of the time just to survive.