SubCmdr's UTR's, Non-Pros (NP), and Sugar Babies (SB)

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1891996]Of course I do!

Mr. Parkinsons, Let me kick a little knowledge into your eye holes.

Prostitution: the business or practice of engaging in sexual relations in exchange for payment or some other benefit.

Sugar Baby: A female or male who is financially pampered / cared for by a sugar daddy or sugar mama in exchange for companionship (I. E. Sexual favors).

Here is some additional information for you:

"In light of recent events, we thought it might be time for a refresher course in the definitions of Sugar. Many are quick to label the Sugar lifestyle choice as prostitution, but there are many differences between this lifestyle and the oldest profession. High-end or not, a call girl is not an interchangeable word for a Sugar Baby. Here are four reasons why.

1. A Relationship vs A Transaction.

A prostitute and a client have a transaction relationship. They meet, exchange funds, and participate in some sort of physical act and part ways. Typically, this is a one time occurrence. A job. There is no relationship, and no possibility for a relationship. And that is the key difference really: Relationship. Sugar Babies and Sugar Daddies have on-going relationships, not transactions. More often than not, a Sugar relationship will resemble that of a girlfriend-boyfriend relationship. There are real connections and real possibilities at romance, something that is not in the realm of possibility with an escort or prostitute. Just because a relationship doesn't follow the traditional rules of courtship, doesn't mean it isn't valid. It also doesn't mean it's illegal.

2. Being a Sugar Baby vs being a Prostitute.

Sugar is a lifestyle choice, not a profession. A sugar baby is a woman who wants to date financially secure men who can provide her with the lifestyle she desires. She's selective about who she dates; a prostitute isn't picky about who she takes on as a client. The risks involved with prostitution are countless, and include exposure to crime, abuse, sexually transmitted diseases and theft of service. Many prostitutes are also subject to physical and emotional abuse, especially when involved with a pimp. And in Sugar, sex is never a requirement, only an aspiration.

3. Dating a Sugar Baby vs ordering a prostitute.

A Sugar Daddy is generous, and wants to see their partner succeed. When two people are involved in a mutually beneficial relationship, they respect and value one another's time. Sugar relationships can turn into long term serious relationships. Prostitutes are paid to perform a service, while Sugar Babies sometimes receive funds as an added benefit of dating a generous man. A john doesn't want a hooker to stick around, and a Sugar Daddy doesn't want his Sugar Baby to leave. While an escort might have a sordid sexual history, a Sugar relationship is often monogamous.

4. Quality vs Quantity.

Most Sugar Babies aren't solely involved in the sugar world. Sugar Babies are also teachers, college students, actresses, and business professionals. They seek successful mentors that can advance their career, not a temporary fix. Sugar Babies can be present in the lives of Sugar Daddies because they have long-term professional goals, and interesting personalities to keep everyone intrigued. Prostitutes on the other hand, use their trade as a source of income it's a last resort for many women who are pressed for money. They aren't looking for mentors or anyone with a specific level of expertise. You may meet hundreds of prostitutes before finding anyone to fulfill your emotional needs. Prostitutes are hired to role play for the evening they'll be whomever you want them to be, but they won't necessarily be themselves. She treats you like a job, not like a man".

Source: [URL]http://blog.seekingarrangement.com/2014/07/14/four-differences-between-sugar-prostitution/[/URL].

Now, If you have read what I have written before then you know I don't agree. In case you haven't seen my previous work:

What you fail to understand is that this is the thread UTR's, Non-Pros (NP) and Sugar Babies (SB). Read through all of my posts and tell me where I have said the Sugar Baby / Sugar Daddy relationship is not prostitution. My contention has always been that I have found there is a "qualitative difference" between prostitutes working the streets of Sosua and Boca Chica and UTR's, Non-Pros (NP) and Sugar Babies (SB) I have encountered throughout the Dominican Republic.

Now from your previous responses to my posts I see that you like to debate and be critical. Go ahead and do that my man. You can debate what prostitution is until your fingers get tired of hitting the keyboard. I'm not interested in that. If you desire to engage in an intellectual discussion of definition of prostitution, knock yourself the fuck out. I prefer to leave such things as an exercise for the reader. Be a man in the arena! Don't be a critic, because then you don't count.

Let Mr. GoGo levitate. Let Mr. Frannie pontificate. Both can notate, meditate ruminate, debate, orate and evaluate all the different reasons they have to berate. Unfortunately for them it amounts to nothing more than a mental attempt to masturbate, self-fellate and placate. That's what critics do. Why concentrate on the critics as they corroborate to misevaluate? As far as I'm concerned they can fornicate or defecate. It makes no difference to me. I prefer to disseminate knowledge that educates. So that others can imitate and operate in a way that creates a life that is far from boilerplate.

A little word play for you motherfuckers, because things were getting a little too serious up in here. LOL![/QUOTE]From what I can make out from the ejaculations you expect us to gobble down, a Sugar Daddy is about the same thing as a Western Union novio?

Or rather Sugar Daddy is a term used on certain prostitution Web sites in the hope of avoiding legal sanctions and of persuading some gullible young women to prostitute themselves while fooling themselves into thinking they are not. Having had a bit of a browse of the Web site you link to, I find the Western Union novio thing in the DR infinitely honester and more likely to give satisfaction to both sides.

[QUOTE=Tempoecorto;1892191]I love this! Are you sure you were not a student of Prof. Henry Higgins in your last incarnation, I mean, in GBS's mind, that is?[/QUOTE]Other than having an eye for the Fair Ladies, I see no point of resemblance.

I've been in this game for years. It made me an animal. There's rules to this shit. I wrote me a manual. A step-by-step booklet for you to get your two balls drained while many pesos remain.

Rule numero uno: Never let a chica know how much dough you hold cause you know. The chicas be use pussy against thee but don't you be a sugar daddy like me.

Number two: Never let them know you next move. Don't you know mongers move in complete silence without violence. Take it from your highness. Arrive unannounced and always much new pussy you'll pounce.

Number three: never trust what chica may say. She will lie every day to get the pesos in play. She be making stuff up to get that fast buck. You need to set the tool straight and let her know what's up.

Number four: know you heard this before. Never get sprung just because you cum.

Number five: never let chica rest where you rest at. I don't care if the chica wants to pout; tell her out!

Number six: chica want god damn credit, dead it. You think a chica be paying you back, shit forget it.

Seven: this rule is so underrated, Keep your chica and your personal business completely separated. Chicas and money don't mix. Ignore this. Find yourself broker than shit.

Number eight: never keep big money on you. Those chicas fucking you will steal your stuff too.

Number nine: should been number one to me. Two chicas you don't know will bring you certain whoa. Threesome in your room is always a no go. Turn head for a minute you be left with nothing in it.

Number ten: A strong word called compassion. Strictly for freshmen, not for veterans. If a chica has a problem just say "hell no". She's only there to suck and fuck, rain, sleet, hail, snow.

Follow these rules you have plenty of pussy to bang up. If not, you might just have a bad wake up.

I'm out!

[QUOTE=Frannie;1892223]Other than having an eye for the Fair Ladies, I see no point of resemblance.[/QUOTE]Jajaja, that was a good word play but then I think of Pygmalion rather than Rex Harrison!

[QUOTE=Tempoecorto;1892653]Jajaja, that was a good word play but then I think of Pygmalion rather than Rex Harrison![/QUOTE]Well, yes, but My Fair Lady was a successful movie that won the Oscars for Best Film, Best Actor, and Best Director in 1964. Audrey Hepburn probably missed out on a shot at another Oscar due the the slight controversy over Julie Andrews not getting the part after starring in the stage version on Broadway. However Andrews got the consolation prize of the lead role in Mary Poppins in the same year and did win the Oscar for Best Actress for that year. So that is where most people will know about Professor Higgins from.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1892373]I've been in this game for years. It made me an animal. There's rules to this shit. I wrote me a manual. A step-by-step booklet for you to get your two balls drained while many pesos remain.

Rule numero uno: Never let a chica know how much dough you hold cause you know. The chicas be use pussy against thee but don't you be a sugar daddy like me.

Number two: Never let them know you next move. Don't you know mongers move in complete silence without violence. Take it from your highness. Arrive unannounced and always much new pussy you'll pounce.

Number three: never trust what chica may say. She will lie every day to get the pesos in play. She be making stuff up to get that fast buck. You need to set the tool straight and let her know what's up.

Number four: know you heard this before. Never get sprung just because you cum.

Number five: never let chica rest where you rest at. I don't care if the chica wants to pout; tell her out!

Number six: chica want god damn credit, dead it. You think a chica be paying you back, shit forget it.

Seven: this rule is so underrated, Keep your chica and your personal business completely separated. Chicas and money don't mix. Ignore this. Find yourself broker than shit.

Number eight: never keep big money on you. Those chicas fucking you will steal your stuff too.

Number nine: should been number one to me. Two chicas you don't know will bring you certain whoa. Threesome in your room is always a no go. Turn head for a minute you be left with nothing in it.

Number ten: A strong word called compassion. Strictly for freshmen, not for veterans. If a chica has a problem just say "hell no". She's only there to suck and fuck, rain, sleet, hail, snow.

Follow these rules you have plenty of pussy to bang up. If not, you might just have a bad wake up.

I'm out![/QUOTE]Now this is a good one.

[QUOTE=Frannie;1892714] So that is where most people will know about Professor Higgins from.[/QUOTE]You are right. Curiously, I read the book long before I got into the theater, as I do not like musicals and found the book (like all others of GBS) to be way superior not to speak of GBS' forwards and of course, his language and wit. So Audrey Hepburn notwithstanding, it is Pygmalion, for the undersigned.

And I did think Subcommander had a nice way with his wordplay.

Latest reports show that 4.5 million Dominicans or 45.7% of the population are borderline poor. The report says that 17.1% already live in poverty and 8. 8% in extreme poverty. The UNDP defines poverty as living on an income of between US $4 and US $10 a day. The 2015 report is based on 2014 data. Gentlemen, (using the term very loosely) that is between 184 and 459 pesos a day. Which translates to 5,520 to 13,770 pesos a month. Going back to the numbers from one of my earlier original posts:

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1891193]Because if poverty was the sole reason women enter prostitution in the Dominican Republic we would expect that number to be around 35 - 40%. That would be in line with the percentage of women living in poverty in the Dominican Republic. Or we could take the female rate of unemployment in the Dominican Republic: 23.4%. Trying to make the argument based purely on economics shows that someone is out of touch. Others have outlined qualitative factors unrelated children's economic well being that have lead women into or keep women in prostitution.[/QUOTE]And what Mr. Franne has to say:

[QUOTE=Frannie;1891548]The other point I take issue with you on is the question of how often women accept money for sex. You are kind of assuming that women will have several clients per day for most of the days in the month, ,make a lot of money, and spend most of it on luxuries, but while that might be the case for some hard core pros fpr a limited time in their short careers, I don't believe it is the case with the majority of part timers who just get a paying client or boyfriend when they can, or when they really need extra cash to pay bills or something.[/QUOTE]You take issue with me based on what knowledge? Because you have run prostitutes and know how often they are fucking?

A prostitute has to fuck 10 times (at 1500 pesos / fuck) before she crosses the "borderline poor" income line out of 13,770 pesos a month. And if she has a child then she would have to double that number to bring both her child and her over that line. I have presented this most inconvenient truth. It's time for you and all my other critics to explain how women around the 5,520 peso range are living and feeding their children. Do you have any suggestions about how they do it? Are they relying on Sexual Tourists flying dick in one hand and pesos in the other to assist mothers to feed the poor starving children of the Dominican Republic?

In addition you write:

[QUOTE=Frannie;1891548]Your whole concept is way off beam.
Here is an example. I know a pleasant young Haitian woman (attractive). She lives with her family in Montellano. She is a legal resident of the DR. She is married, but her husband is in Haiti. She is not a hooker. She is hard working and intelligent and honest and likes to go to school and do courses. I have known her for about 5 years. She worked for me for about 2 years. She got 5000 pesos from me every 2 weeks, plus transportation fare, plus free meals on the job.[/QUOTE]Using your example, if this employee worked 40 hours a week she made 62.5 pesos an hour. That means for two years you paid her an income left her in the "borderline poor" category. Yes, it was on the upper end of the range but still you were paying wages that left this hard working and intelligent, honest, university course attending young woman "borderline poor"!

Now if we take the market rate of 1500 pesos for a short time and you are willing to stipulate that a short time is 2 hours. If you hire prostitutes at that rate you are paying them 700 pesos an hour. That means you are paying the woman who licks your ass over ten times more an hour than the woman that cleaned up after your ass! Although, I'll stipulate they are both equally unpleasant tasks. How do you justify that situation which is totally within your control because as the employer you set the rate of pay in both cases? Now I don't know what the lady did for you (or the prostitutes for that matter). Nor am I am in the position to state the value of the additional compensation you provided through transportation and meals. But even if you add 2000 more pesos per month that still leaves her in the "borderline poor" category.

Are you going to continue to take issue with me saying prostitutes do not make more money than the "borderline poor"?

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1902482]

In addition you write:

Using your example, if this employee worked 40 hours a week she made 62.5 pesos an hour. That means for two years you paid her an income left her in the "borderline poor" category. Yes, it was on the upper end of the range but still you were paying wages that left this hard working and intelligent, honest, university course attending young woman "borderline poor"!

Now if we take the market rate of 1500 pesos for a short time and you are willing to stipulate that a short time is 2 hours. If you hire prostitutes at that rate you are paying them 700 pesos an hour. That means you are paying the woman who licks your ass over ten times more an hour than the woman that cleaned up after your ass! Although, I'll stipulate they are both equally unpleasant tasks. How do you justify that situation which is totally within your control because as the employer you set the rate of pay in both cases? Now I don't know what the lady did for you (or the prostitutes for that matter). Nor am I am in the position to state the value of the additional compensation you provided through transportation and meals. But even if you add 2000 more pesos per month that still leaves her in the "borderline poor" category.

Are you going to continue to take issue with me saying prostitutes do not make more money than the "borderline poor"?[/QUOTE]She did not work anywhere close to 40 hours per week for me, so all your calculations are in vain. She loved working for me. However I am not going to explain why, because that is private business.

[QUOTE]Nor am I am in the position to state the value of the additional compensation you provided through transportation and meals.[/QUOTE]About 100 pesos per day for transportation, and you know perfectly well how much food costs in the DR and how much it costs to feed one more person on regular household meals.

Anyway, your arguments are about what constitutes poverty are meaningless without context. If she lived with her parents and sisters, which she did, and had no rent or utility bills to pay other than her cell phone, and ate communally with her family, and had no children, there is no comparison for the cost of living for a single mother who lives away from her family.

What I did say was that when she was no longer able to work for me because I no longer maintained a residence in the DR, the kind of job that she was able to get barely paid for her fares to and from work and her lunches, so she was much worse off. Although she never has and probably never will engage in prostitution, other members of her family have done so, and one married and moved to Europe, one can easily see that many young women will turn to casual prostitution for quick money.

Actually, you have reminded me of the innocent, religious young virgin I met several years ago in Sosua, who was saving herself for her husband, which she did, and when she turned 21 she married. I often fantasized about sex with her, but I never thought it would happen. Less than a year later she had sex with me a few times, so that she could get the money for a new kitchen stove (and also experience oral sex for the first time). Then I didn't see her for a few years until I bumped into her in the street distributing religious tracts to passers-by. She had split from her husband and was living a celibate life. She had not experienced oral sex since, so I took her over to my place and worked her over again for old times sake, although she had added some poundage in the meantime, and she was super orgasmic. She used the donation to buy a new dress.

I might have continued the relationship, except that I had just gotten involved with someone else whom I am still with 5 years later.

Yes, of course some prostitutes make a lot of money, but most don't because they don't have a high volume of clients and their careers in prostitution are short. But there are numerous part times who will accept donations if you catch them at the right time and in the right mood. This is part of the system by which wealth in the DR, which is largely held by older men, is transferred to young families.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1892373]I've been in this game for years. It made me an animal. There's rules to this shit. I wrote me a manual. A step-by-step booklet for you to get your two balls drained while many pesos remain.

Rule numero uno: Never let a chica know how much dough you hold cause you know. The chicas be use pussy against thee but don't you be a sugar daddy like me.

Number two: Never let them know you next move. Don't you know mongers move in complete silence without violence. Take it from your highness. Arrive unannounced and always much new pussy you'll pounce.

Number three: never trust what chica may say. She will lie every day to get the pesos in play. She be making stuff up to get that fast buck. You need to set the tool straight and let her know what's up.

Number four: know you heard this before. Never get sprung just because you cum.

Number five: never let chica rest where you rest at. I don't care if the chica wants to pout; tell her out!

Number six: chica want god damn credit, dead it. You think a chica be paying you back, shit forget it.

Seven: this rule is so underrated, Keep your chica and your personal business completely separated. Chicas and money don't mix. Ignore this. Find yourself broker than shit.

Number eight: never keep big money on you. Those chicas fucking you will steal your stuff too.

Number nine: should been number one to me. Two chicas you don't know will bring you certain whoa. Threesome in your room is always a no go. Turn head for a minute you be left with nothing in it.

Number ten: A strong word called compassion. Strictly for freshmen, not for veterans. If a chica has a problem just say "hell no". She's only there to suck and fuck, rain, sleet, hail, snow.

Follow these rules you have plenty of pussy to bang up. If not, you might just have a bad wake up.

I'm out![/QUOTE]Nice play on Biggie's [b]Ten Crack Commandments[/b], lol :-D

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYb_8MM1tGQ[/URL]

[QUOTE=Frannie;1902709]Anyway, your arguments are about what constitutes poverty are meaningless without context. Yes, of course some prostitutes make a lot of money, but most don't because they don't have a high volume of clients and their careers in prostitution are short. But there are numerous part times who will accept donations if you catch them at the right time and in the right mood. This is part of the system by which wealth in the DR, which is largely held by older men, is transferred to young families.[/QUOTE]Mr. Frannie,

What is your basis for making the above statement?

Nothing in your statement contains a single hard fact. You have failed to present any information other than your personal opinions, along with your personal suppositions about poverty, the income received by prostitutes and the transference of wealth in the Dominican Republic. Who owns the wealth in the US? The wealthiest 160,000 families own as much wealth as the poorest 145 million families, and that wealth is about 10 times as unequal as income. Care to guess the age and racial composition of the patriarchs of those families? But I digress!

Originally you took issue with my statement of how much it costs to raise a child. Since you feel the need to put things into context, remember that I was illustrating that the majority of women manage to raise their children without becoming prostitutes. I rejected the idea that prostitutes are just trying to get by and feed their children. I presented both anecdotal evidence and statistical facts to support my argument. I have shown that even though there is a high rate of poverty in the Dominican Republic. The majority of women do not resort to prostitution to make it economically. Furthermore, I showed how a prostitute does not need to fuck that much (10 fucks can be acheved in one weekend) to bring herself out of the borderline poor category. I have provided you with the context. You cannot simply declare them to be meaningless because you don't like what I've written. Ignoring the facts doesn't change them.

Your post contained some interesting stories. I found them to be entertaining.

[QUOTE=SubCmdr;1903487]


Originally you took issue with my statement of how much it costs to raise a child. Since you feel the need to put things into context, remember that I was illustrating that the majority of women manage to raise their children without becoming prostitutes. I rejected the idea that prostitutes are just trying to get by and feed their children. I presented both anecdotal evidence and statistical facts to support my argument. I have shown that even though there is a high rate of poverty in the Dominican Republic. The majority of women do not resort to prostitution to make it economically. Furthermore, I showed how a prostitute does not need to fuck that much (10 fucks can be acheved in one weekend) to bring herself out of the borderline poor category. I have provided you with the context. You cannot simply declare them to be meaningless because you don't like what I've written. Ignoring the facts doesn't change them.

Your post contained some interesting stories. I found them to be entertaining.[/QUOTE]It may be true that the majority of (single) women in the DR get by without selling sex, but also true that the main reason those who sell sex do so is to get by financially.

I had a friend several years ago who ran a nightclub where they had 20-odd girls living on site who were taken out by men for a 500 peso salida. He kept an Excel spreadsheet that he showed me several times of the salida earnings for the population of girls. It was a bell curve thing. There were a few girls who got taken out pretty much every day they worked, but the majority were hardly ever called upon, and some not at all. I am pretty sure that is the same in any area where there is prostitution in the DR, so that is why I doubt that it is easy for most women to get sex with 10 tourists in a weekend. Also, based on conversations and relationships with some other women I have known, and their friends, I find this to be doubtful. I have also spoken to women who work in the massage parlors, and they say that most days they don't make any money at all. For them a day in which they get two paying customers is a godsend.

[QUOTE=Frannie;1903665]It may be true that the majority of (single) women in the DR get by without selling sex, but also true that the main reason those who sell sex do so is to get by financially..[/QUOTE]Based on the anecdotal evidence you presented this remains simply your opinion.

Anecdotal: based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation.

Once again you choose to take a series of stories based on personal observations, case study reports and random investigations rather than using any systematic scientific evaluation, and instead simply stating that this is your opinion you present the information as if they are the actual facts in all of the situations involving prostitution in the Dominican Republic. You cannot use those anecdotal stories to make a statement that covers all situations involving prostitution in Dominican Republic. It may be true that, in the cases you presented, the women involved in prostitution within the Dominican Republic were not making much money. But it's still not possible for you to state with systematic scientific evaluation that this is the case for "any area in which there is prostitution in the DR".

In your stories you did not even detail the city in which the "nightclub" and massage parlor operations were located. Are you taking the position that there is no difference in demographics, per capita income, or market demand for prostitution across all of the cities and towns located in the Dominican Republic? Furthermore, the idea that sex is being sold mainly to get by financially is once again simply your opinion that you have chosen to present as a statement of fact for 100% of the women who have entered prostitution. Yet, using your own example:

[QUOTE=Frannie;1902709]Less than a year later she had sex with me a few times, so that she could get the money for a new kitchen stove. She had not experienced oral sex since, so I took her over to my place and worked her over again for old times sake, although she had added some poundage in the meantime, and she was super orgasmic. She used the donation to buy a new dress.[/QUOTE]She used the money to buy a new kitchen stove and for buying a new dress. I didn't see a woman in that story that could not feed her children or that was going to starve. Yet, you and other employers pay hourly wages that leave women in the "borderline poor" category while continuing to pay prostitutes hourly wages that are well above that standard.

You are entitled to your opinion that women who enter prostitution do not make a lot of money at it. But being a prostitute is one of those economic activities where you get paid like being a pilot. A pilot only gets paid when the engines are running. A prostitute is only gets paid when one of her holes is being penetrated. But the hourly rate of pay received in both cases exceed the average in both cases.

[QUOTE=Frannie;1903665]It may be true that the majority of (single) women in the DR get by without selling sex, but also true that the main reason those who sell sex do so is to get by financially.

I had a friend several years ago who ran a nightclub where they had 20-odd girls living on site who were taken out by men for a 500 peso salida. He kept an Excel spreadsheet that he showed me several times of the salida earnings for the population of girls. It was a bell curve thing. There were a few girls who got taken out pretty much every day they worked, but the majority were hardly ever called upon, and some not at all. I am pretty sure that is the same in any area where there is prostitution in the DR, so that is why I doubt that it is easy for most women to get sex with 10 tourists in a weekend. Also, based on conversations and relationships with some other women I have known, and their friends, I find this to be doubtful. I have also spoken to women who work in the massage parlors, and they say that most days they don't make any money at all. For them a day in which they get two paying customers is a godsend.[/QUOTE]Sex work is not a regular job, with a fixed income. It is more like fishing. There are productive periods, and long dry spells. Even for the most attractive chica, there may be periods when clients are plentiful, and other periods, when there are none. But even during the dry spells, their overhead / expenses (local accommodations, food, etc) remain.

[QUOTE=Yanqui69;1903730]Sex work is not a regular job, with a fixed income. It is more like fishing. There are productive periods, and long dry spells. Even for the most attractive chica, there may be periods when clients are plentiful, and other periods, when there are none. But even during the dry spells, their overhead / expenses (local accommodations, food, etc) remain.[/QUOTE]And besides that, how many sex workers ANYWHERE do you really see living large? Every now and then a Heidy Fleiss or somebody will come along, but your average, everyday, run of the mill hooker ain't coming down in a drop top Benz or pulling up to a mansion. Most of them are doing it for just bread and meat.