Monterrey

[QUOTE=Amigomio]We saw you on Saturday... I think it was you.
You were sitting almost smack in the middle of the #1 stage, to the right of the steps, right after the bulge that forms the end of it.

Anyway, you took a lot of girls upstairs.... you had fun, didn't you?[/QUOTE]Yea that was me and I remember going on a bit of a splurge for about 45 minutes on Saturday. Those girls didn't turn out to be that great. Perhaps, on a busy night, they weren't making much effort because I wasn't committing to extra services. It was worth going but I wouldn't rank it in the top half of all Monterrey club visits.

That was a lull in an otherwise good trip. There was a quick afternoon stop at Signore that was a solid value (200P+50 tip). The room had A/C running in advance which was a life saver on a really hot day.

On Saturday I went to El Gaucho for an early dinner and it was awesome. They serve enormous steaks and great desserts with very good service.

I went to Matehaula for the first time in three years at 10PM Sat. I wasn't expecting much but it was packed and rockin'. They played Metallica and Ramstein exactly as I recall from my first visit six years ago. They've probably played it every night since then.

To my eyes the girls as a group were equal to Infinito and had more energy. There were a couple of cute little spinners that caught my eye. I had some nice dances with a little blond with a slightly punk look. She quoted 300 pesos for FS which I declined for some reason. Later it hit me that I was leaving town in the AM and there wasn't going to be much better even when I do come back. I approached her at a slow point and she accepted 250 pesos. It left the club about 3:30AM happy and ready for home.

That case illustrates the niche for in-club FS. Its a trade off of quality experience for max convenience. I hadn't even planned on anything of the sort but the girls were just right and at least there was the option to make a game time decision. Having said that I'd probably have to think hard before paying more than 300P. One of the earlier duds had quoted 400 but there was no way that was the rock bottom price. All of this refers to the chica fee only.

I went to El Cielo several times as well. Some of my best all time Monterrey stories happened there and they have Claudia who is my favorite.

Unospongebob touched on getting clipped when paying with big bills and that led to a very curious occurrence at El Cielo late Friday. I had used all my small bills at Infinito earlier and when I entered El Cielo knew I was going to have buy a beer with a 200 peso bill. I displayed the bill's value prominently and the waiter clearly repeated the correct value out loud. He then went through an exercise where he slipped the 200 into the bottom of his stack with one hand while shuffling bills with the other and then first offered change for a 50 and then for a 100 and finally the correct change all in about ten seconds. He didn't make any effort to argue etc. I had been there the previous two nights and it was almost like he was just messing with me.

I'd say if you must pay with a big bill make sure to clearly display the bill and state the value. Try not to let go until they acknowledge it. Don't look away until you get all the change. If you look away, that's when they might pull out a smaller bill and act like it was yours.

In fairness, in roughly 50 visits to the three clubs mentioned here, I can not recall having a issue with price or getting correct change. I have never been to the higher end clubs to be able to comment. I had heard of several issues with tabs at higher end clubs before I ever set foot in town.

Also at El Cielo, there was one hyper little honey that just flat out attempted FS on me without any sort of discussion or agreement what so ever. During a regular privado she started messing around with her hands which isn't that rare in and of itself. After a couple minutes she goes and gets a condom. I'm thinking she's gonna do a HJ. That wouldn't be a first for El Cielo either. Within 15 seconds she moves in like she going to get serious. I had to force myself to put an end to it. I couldn't risk following through and then having her name her own price when it was done.

Maybe when I return in July I'll try buying a few drinks for the girls and see how that turns out. To this point I have always sat at the stage and avoided buying drinks. But it seems the stage action has mellowed somewhat compared to a few years ago and I felt like it was distracting me from picking girls for privado. At times I got up and stood elsewhere to better view the background and see if any of the other girls stood out.

I expect to be back in July. Carlos please order up come nice 90 degree days. 107F on Friday was a little too much.

Oh well. Enough for this trip. Have fun and be safe.

Good advise...keep your eye on the ball at all times with these waiters. Some of them are regulars that have been at it for many years. Those guys, while they are not to generally to be trusted either, especially concerning chica recommendations, at least they have a motivator to treat their repeat customers as honestly as possible for the promise of future decent tips.

Usually, with the seasoned "professional" waiters, the most they will attempt is to fain an "innocent" mistake on the bill. If they know you're a repeat customer, and you come to their bar all the time, they will make a pretty decent attempt at being honest with respect to not going so far as to attempt to swindle you with the peso bill switch tactic.

There are times, usually late at night, usually with the air full of smoke, usually with my eyes burning from being up until 4am four or five nights in a row, that the difficulty in discerning which bill I gave them is most difficult for me. I'm tired, frazzled, etc...

As for the present state of affairs in the low end bars. I have visited El Infinito recently, and they're late night line-up during the week, IMHO, leaves something to be desired, ditto that at Matehuala, and el Cielo both.

Now, this really only applies to the week nights. The weekends are a totally different animal. But, keep in mind, there is a hell of a lot more competition on weekends. The girls are simply not as motivated to leave the bars, or even to spend time with you if you aren't puking pesos on them in the bar. For my part, the weekend nights are just too hectic, too much competition, high prices, too many scams, too much greed, too many drunk Mexicanos, People in the street, etc...

I also visited Givenchy UNO over the last couple of weeks, which is now open in the spot where the original Givenchy was first located, South of El Infinito. Givenchy Dos is to the North of El Infinito. Anyway, Givenchy Uno was pretty disappointing. They only had about two girls in the place at midnight. I basically walked in, scoped out the talent, and walked out. With respect to some of these lower end bars lately, I'm not terribly impressed. What IS HAPPENING????? I did find one in El Cielo last time. She was flaca, willing, available for salidas, etc...So, there is hope. But, I have to tell you, the search is getting harder and harder.

I also recently visited Harem. Some might be interested in knowing that they've spruced up the Harem a little bit, expanded it some. When you pull up to the place, you'll notice it has a bigger foot print. They bought out that place next door, the restaurant. I think that restaurant was supposedly half way decent a place. I never tried it, but I think several visitors from the boards have wandered in there for something to eat and talked favorably of it. Anyway, Harem has expanded to a second stage area to the East in the place of that restaurant, ajoining the main bar area. Usually, they have one chica over there. The girls wander between the two separated rooms, but there usually doesn't seem to be too many working the new addition whenever I've checked it out.

Secondarily, the privado area upstairs has been completely relocated, and revamped. Frankly, I am relatively disappointed in it. They have reduced the size of the booths, leaving only space to sit where the girl straddles you in front, sitting on your lap. And, the chairs are not cushy like they used to be. Additionally, it was hot as hades up there. In one instance, I took a very hot, as in "perfect body," girl up for a privado, gave the attendant 200 pesos, intending to get my full measure of songs. But, as time progressed, my girl and I got so uncomfortable that we both decided to exit the privados and go back downstairs. She even got my 100 pesos back from the attendant for me without my even asking. I had fully expected to lose it, but the heat was unbearable.

IMHO, the rank and file are trying to send management a message that they don't want to work up there....It's too damned HOT! Otherwise, there is little reason she would recover my 100 pesos from the attendant. I think they would like to see management losing money up there until the air is turned on. Under ANY other circumstances, the girls would NOT have recovered my money from the attendant. I would have been totally on my own.

Also, with the same girl, the attendant at the privados attempted to swindle an extra 200 pesos by misquoting price to me. She refused to be a party to the scam, telling him something in rapid fire Spanish that I could not discern. But, I got the distinct impression she was putting him in his place, and protecting her own investment. But, my theory, the discomfort upstairs is something the girls are not willing to tolerate. I have never had a girl looking after my financial condition with such concern. So, I can only conclude that have their own motivations for doing so.



[QUOTE=Gringo Wadero]Yea that was me and I remember going on a bit of a splurge for about 45 minutes on Saturday. Those girls didn't turn out to be that great. Perhaps, on a busy night, they weren't making much effort because I wasn't committing to extra services. It was worth going but I wouldn't rank it in the top half of all Monterrey club visits.

That was a lull in an otherwise good trip. There was a quick afternoon stop at Signore that was a solid value (200P+50 tip). The room had A/C running in advance which was a life saver on a really hot day.

On Saturday I went to El Gaucho for an early dinner and it was awesome. They serve enormous steaks and great desserts with very good service.

I went to Matehaula for the first time in three years at 10PM Sat. I wasn't expecting much but it was packed and rockin'. They played Metallica and Ramstein exactly as I recall from my first visit six years ago. They've probably played it every night since then.

To my eyes the girls as a group were equal to Infinito and had more energy. There were a couple of cute little spinners that caught my eye. I had some nice dances with a little blond with a slightly punk look. She quoted 300 pesos for FS which I declined for some reason. Later it hit me that I was leaving town in the AM and there wasn't going to be much better even when I do come back. I approached her at a slow point and she accepted 250 pesos. It left the club about 3:30AM happy and ready for home.

That case illustrates the niche for in-club FS. Its a trade off of quality experience for max convenience. I hadn't even planned on anything of the sort but the girls were just right and at least there was the option to make a game time decision. Having said that I'd probably have to think hard before paying more than 300P. One of the earlier duds had quoted 400 but there was no way that was the rock bottom price. All of this refers to the chica fee only.

I went to El Cielo several times as well. Some of my best all time Monterrey stories happened there and they have Claudia who is my favorite.

Unospongebob touched on getting clipped when paying with big bills and that led to a very curious occurrence at El Cielo late Friday. I had used all my small bills at Infinito earlier and when I entered El Cielo knew I was going to have buy a beer with a 200 peso bill. I displayed the bill's value prominently and the waiter clearly repeated the correct value out loud. He then went through an exercise where he slipped the 200 into the bottom of his stack with one hand while shuffling bills with the other and then first offered change for a 50 and then for a 100 and finally the correct change all in about ten seconds. He didn't make any effort to argue etc. I had been there the previous two nights and it was almost like he was just messing with me.

I'd say if you must pay with a big bill make sure to clearly display the bill and state the value. Try not to let go until they acknowledge it. Don't look away until you get all the change. If you look away, that's when they might pull out a smaller bill and act like it was yours.

In fairness, in roughly 50 visits to the three clubs mentioned here, I can not recall having a issue with price or getting correct change. I have never been to the higher end clubs to be able to comment. I had heard of several issues with tabs at higher end clubs before I ever set foot in town.

Also at El Cielo, there was one hyper little honey that just flat out attempted FS on me without any sort of discussion or agreement what so ever. During a regular privado she started messing around with her hands which isn't that rare in and of itself. After a couple minutes she goes and gets a condom. I'm thinking she's gonna do a HJ. That wouldn't be a first for El Cielo either. Within 15 seconds she moves in like she going to get serious. I had to force myself to put an end to it. I couldn't risk following through and then having her name her own price when it was done.

Maybe when I return in July I'll try buying a few drinks for the girls and see how that turns out. To this point I have always sat at the stage and avoided buying drinks. But it seems the stage action has mellowed somewhat compared to a few years ago and I felt like it was distracting me from picking girls for privado. At times I got up and stood elsewhere to better view the background and see if any of the other girls stood out.

I expect to be back in July. Carlos please order up come nice 90 degree days. 107F on Friday was a little too much.

Oh well. Enough for this trip. Have fun and be safe.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Amigomio]Am going to sum it up in a different way than USB... Hot Dog: you were had.

Ref my trip in April apologies for my delay in responding and I don’t have a problem with any of your comments on my waywardness; I am sure I probably over paid; but I still have a question. Assuming I want to go to a "high end club" and I am completely relaxed about “patronizing the absolutely MOST frickin' expensive clubs in Monterrey” and I have “tons of money to have fun at the Premiere, Amnesia, Colorados and at Obsession and Prestige” but do not on the other hand want to pay just for the sake of comfortable chairs and fauning lackeys but do want the nicer friendlier less hardened prettier girls (which to some extent I got) where do you go?

If you spend “tons of money” at the above clubs in their open booths are we just talking glorified lap dances or what ? Because I’m not interested in lap dances. Whilst I might want to watch a show, have a few drinks and possibly screw on the premises I am keener on take out to the best hotel that will suffer take outs!

So if one said that on my terms Venus Palace and Poisson fitted the bill; what actually is available at Prestige, Amnesia, Premiere and Colorado ??

I had read from you guys earlier posts that a couple of clubs definitely don’t do take out but what clubs have rooms and what have open booths and what take out ?

Or put another way: was what I was looking for actually available at Amnesia, Premiere and Colorado or not ?

Finally if I paid us$ 200 –220 for the girl plus us$120 –150 take out salida fee respectively at Poisson and Venus Palace what is the best price we should be aiming at ?

Sure, we mean no criticism whatsoever. These are just comments of our experiences, and each has his own criteria to judge their own unique satisfaction levels achieved.

Honestly, it has been about 7 years since I even entertained the idea of actually going to meet with a girl from one of the high end clubs. I worked on one in Obsession when I first started coming to Monterrey. Compared to the effort made at actually getting her to eventually show up after work hours, and compared to the lesser amount of work invested in getting the girls from the lower end bars out on salida, the effort was about ten fold in the high end bars.

In the end, the literal cost was identical. However, the cost of drinks was significantly higher with respect to wining and dining a high end club girl versus just spending about 10 minutes interviewing a girl from the lower end bars, and away we go.

Frankly, the end result with respect to quality of experience has always been identical. Just because they're from the high end bars versus the lower end bars does NOT dictate the quality of experience, nor does it really dictate the "hardened" attitude you refer to, nor does it even dictate the quality of selection.

I know a lot more girls from the high end bars, the expensive Divas, that are significantly harder, colder, more clinical in their approaches, than many, many, many other options in the lower end bars. But, if you must have one of the Divas, then they are likely to cost you 3000-5000 pesos, plus drinks on getting them to agree to meet you outside the bar. Time spent? probably and hour or two, no more.

Just recently, I am working on a new girl at Colorados. She agrees to go with me for 1000 pesos. No, not only does she just agree, she is literally almost begging to make the money. She is not one of the Divas that control the club floor. There are always those girls that are so in control of the floor, using the shear power of their sex appeal and the force of their personalities, that they are, IMHO, way over priced, and likely a big disappointment.

The higher end bars forbid the girls to see customers outside their establishments, and many girls simply will not consider it because it's akin to risking their jobs. Some will eventually consider it, but only after they have you totally pegged, which takes a number of consistent visits, and a number of drinks to establish your credibility with them.

Therefore, if you are an infrequent visitor, you can not realistically expect to meet a girl on her day off, nor pay a salida for high end bar activities at your hotel. Carlos probably knows the schedule of pricing for on-site activities at the high end bars. I don't because I have no interest in that kind of experience, and have never really fully investigated it. I do know one thing, compared to what I can routinely get, it is extremely expensive, and likely to be very disappointing compared to the control of the scenario that I have from within my own hotel room environment.

Typically, I believe the cost to be around 600 pesos for 15 minutes in the privados at a high end bar. That includes a nude dance. The rest of the cost is upsold services that range the entire gambit, all the way to full service. Carlos can elaborate on those on-site, high end bar costs for full service.

To specifically answer your questions,

"but do not on the other hand want to pay just for the sake of comfortable chairs and fauning lackeys but do want the nicer friendlier less hardened prettier girls (which to some extent I got) where do you go?"

You're on the right track. Those are the high end bars. And, the selections and environments in them change with respect to selection. Most of the high end bars have private quarters for on-site activities. I would suggest that you really make the rounds, and then return to the one that, at any one particular time, seems most promising.

One thing is consistent, they all vary with respect to timing, and unless you canvass them in a "drive-by" kind of way, you may be spending your time in one place, when another is really better suited for what you're looking for.

With the lower end bars, I am known to simply cruise in the door, canvass the available talent, and to exit the building, all in less than 2 minutes. I may delay my departure long enough to scope out what may be hidden from view, busy in the privados simultaneous to my visit. But, I don't like wasting my time sitting in bars without some kind of obvious payoff potential.

This is more difficult to do in the high end bars due to the cover charge, and because of the way you are ushered in by fawning waiters. This difficulty escalates as you move from category to category, low end to medium, and medium to high end. So, there are limitations to canvassing them as I suggest.

To further address your questions...
"So if one said that on my terms Venus Palace and Poisson fitted the bill; what actually is available at Prestige, Amnesia, Premiere and Colorado ??"

With high end bars, everything, full service, etc....IS available, but only on-site to the extent of my comments above.

"Finally if I paid us$ 200 –220 for the girl plus us$120 –150 take out salida fee respectively at Poisson and Venus Palace what is the best price we should be aiming at ?"

As I mentioned above, salidas from the higher end places are not typically available. Carlos may know of some exceptions, and he can comment accordingly.



[QUOTE=Hot Dog][QUOTE=Amigomio]Am going to sum it up in a different way than USB... Hot Dog: you were had.

Ref my trip in April apologies for my delay in responding and I don’t have a problem with any of your comments on my waywardness; I am sure I probably over paid; but I still have a question. Assuming I want to go to a "high end club" and I am completely relaxed about “patronizing the absolutely MOST frickin' expensive clubs in Monterrey” and I have “tons of money to have fun at the Premiere, Amnesia, Colorados and at Obsession and Prestige” but do not on the other hand want to pay just for the sake of comfortable chairs and fauning lackeys but do want the nicer friendlier less hardened prettier girls (which to some extent I got) where do you go?

If you spend “tons of money” at the above clubs in their open booths are we just talking glorified lap dances or what ? Because I’m not interested in lap dances. Whilst I might want to watch a show, have a few drinks and possibly screw on the premises I am keener on take out to the best hotel that will suffer take outs!

So if one said that on my terms Venus Palace and Poisson fitted the bill; what actually is available at Prestige, Amnesia, Premiere and Colorado ??

I had read from you guys earlier posts that a couple of clubs definitely don’t do take out but what clubs have rooms and what have open booths and what take out ?

Or put another way: was what I was looking for actually available at Amnesia, Premiere and Colorado or not ?

Finally if I paid us$ 200 –220 for the girl plus us$120 –150 take out salida fee respectively at Poisson and Venus Palace what is the best price we should be aiming at ?[/QUOTE]

That is right.
There are no "salidas" at the high end clubs like Amnesia, Premiere, Prestige, Obsession.

The rest are negotiable, like the 800 peso tab at the Pasarelas and Harem, and so on, or the 350 pesos at the Infinito.
Iam not up to date with the charges done at Poisson, but more or less I do believe they are over 100 dlls, like you paid.



[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Sure, we mean no criticism whatsoever. These are just comments of our experiences, and each has his own criteria to judge their own unique satisfaction levels achieved.

Honestly, it has been about 7 years since I even entertained the idea of actually going to meet with a girl from one of the high end clubs. I worked on one in Obsession when I first started coming to Monterrey. Compared to the effort made at actually getting her to eventually show up after work hours, and compared to the lesser amount of work invested in getting the girls from the lower end bars out on salida, the effort was about ten fold in the high end bars.

In the end, the literal cost was identical. However, the cost of drinks was significantly higher with respect to wining and dining a high end club girl versus just spending about 10 minutes interviewing a girl from the lower end bars, and away we go.

Frankly, the end result with respect to quality of experience has always been identical. Just because they're from the high end bars versus the lower end bars does NOT dictate the quality of experience, nor does it really dictate the "hardened" attitude you refer to, nor does it even dictate the quality of selection.

I know a lot more girls from the high end bars, the expensive Divas, that are significantly harder, colder, more clinical in their approaches, than many, many, many other options in the lower end bars. But, if you must have one of the Divas, then they are likely to cost you 3000-5000 pesos, plus drinks on getting them to agree to meet you outside the bar. Time spent? probably and hour or two, no more.

Just recently, I am working on a new girl at Colorados. She agrees to go with me for 1000 pesos. No, not only does she just agree, she is literally almost begging to make the money. She is not one of the Divas that control the club floor. There are always those girls that are so in control of the floor, using the shear power of their sex appeal and the force of their personalities, that they are, IMHO, way over priced, and likely a big disappointment.

The higher end bars forbid the girls to see customers outside their establishments, and many girls simply will not consider it because it's akin to risking their jobs. Some will eventually consider it, but only after they have you totally pegged, which takes a number of consistent visits, and a number of drinks to establish your credibility with them.

Therefore, if you are an infrequent visitor, you can not realistically expect to meet a girl on her day off, nor pay a salida for high end bar activities at your hotel. Carlos probably knows the schedule of pricing for on-site activities at the high end bars. I don't because I have no interest in that kind of experience, and have never really fully investigated it. I do know one thing, compared to what I can routinely get, it is extremely expensive, and likely to be very disappointing compared to the control of the scenario that I have from within my own hotel room environment.

Typically, I believe the cost to be around 600 pesos for 15 minutes in the privados at a high end bar. That includes a nude dance. The rest of the cost is upsold services that range the entire gambit, all the way to full service. Carlos can elaborate on those on-site, high end bar costs for full service.

To specifically answer your questions,

"but do not on the other hand want to pay just for the sake of comfortable chairs and fauning lackeys but do want the nicer friendlier less hardened prettier girls (which to some extent I got) where do you go?"

You're on the right track. Those are the high end bars. And, the selections and environments in them change with respect to selection. Most of the high end bars have private quarters for on-site activities. I would suggest that you really make the rounds, and then return to the one that, at any one particular time, seems most promising.

One thing is consistent, they all vary with respect to timing, and unless you canvass them in a "drive-by" kind of way, you may be spending your time in one place, when another is really better suited for what you're looking for.

With the lower end bars, I am known to simply cruise in the door, canvass the available talent, and to exit the building, all in less than 2 minutes. I may delay my departure long enough to scope out what may be hidden from view, busy in the privados simultaneous to my visit. But, I don't like wasting my time sitting in bars without some kind of obvious payoff potential.

This is more difficult to do in the high end bars due to the cover charge, and because of the way you are ushered in by fawning waiters. This difficulty escalates as you move from category to category, low end to medium, and medium to high end. So, there are limitations to canvassing them as I suggest.

To further address your questions...
"So if one said that on my terms Venus Palace and Poisson fitted the bill; what actually is available at Prestige, Amnesia, Premiere and Colorado ??"

With high end bars, everything, full service, etc....IS available, but only on-site to the extent of my comments above.

"Finally if I paid us$ 200 –220 for the girl plus us$120 –150 take out salida fee respectively at Poisson and Venus Palace what is the best price we should be aiming at ?"

As I mentioned above, salidas from the higher end places are not typically available. Carlos may know of some exceptions, and he can comment accordingly.



[QUOTE=Hot Dog][/QUOTE]

You know, I am really very disappointed at the quality of the buffet at Obsession versus Prestige. The quality of the buffet has plummeted at Obsession. The drink prices are less at Obsession however, and considerably less. So, if you're contemplating a visit to a particular high end club, and you want to have the most bang for the buck concerning drink prices, then Obsession is really quite a bargain.

I recall being at Obsession in the not too distant past, and I was kind of surprised how cheap the drinks were. I had come from Prestige the prior day, and I am always kind of shocked at the totality of the costs that accrue over at Prestige. I don't even remember the literal cost differences by the drink, only that when they bring the final check, I recall being really pleasantly surprised at Obsession after having endured the cost of Prestige the previous day. And I recall thinking that I had not really purchased more or less from either of them.

All should also remember that the girls will almost always attempt to order Tecate or a double, unless they're familiar with you as a customer. This is especially true at Prestige. They will make the attempt, but always remember that the cost is astronomical. Just make sure that you tell them no doubles, and no Tecate. Just tell them you want single drinks. Just show them in sign language, if you don't know Spanish, that you only want the small ones. Otherwise, you will be sorry. The literal cost of a Tecate, a single can of beer, is 240 pesos....ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, if it's a buffet lunch you're after, Prestige is really, really quite good! The drink costs are higher than Obsession, by quite a bit. But, if you just want a nice lunch, some good scenery, and even if you are relatively conservative with the numbers of drinks you purchase, then it's a good time.

But, just remember, at night, all the high end bars are really astronomically expensive. That's why I do not patronize them past 5pm, period. If I visit a high end bar, it's to enjoy the buffet, usually Prestige, and in the case of Obsession, the buffet is so disappointing that I am very conservative at what I choose to eat there. At Obsession these days, I just reserve my fun to socializing with the girls.

Bob, I was setting at my usual table last niht when that lady who sells outfits to the girls was talking to me. She asked about you. She plain straight forward told me 2 things:
1- She thinks you are a handsom man, and ...
2- She wants you ... Yes .. She likes you and asked me to let you know.

So there. Now you know.

But I very politly told her that you like them below 20 years old.

Wasted

Great...I am attracting old women...Just what I had in mind :-))))

Consider this logic...Most would consider such a revelation, that an older woman is attracted to us, as a bit of a downer, verdad?

But USB rises above it all....This illustrates the power of positive thinking.

As we age, do we not believe a young girl to be as beautiful to us at our SIGNIFICANTLY advanced ages, as we would have thought them to be when we were 20?

So, that having been established. Is it not also correct to assume, that girls have the same kind of attraction at age 40+...as they would quite possibly have had at age 20? I mean, I am as attracted to certain girls in the same way as I am now attracted to certain girls. I like them short, thin, morena, cute face, fantastic body...nothing's changed with my age with respect to what attracts me, verdad?

Therefore, logically, to extrapolate, if a 40+ (hopefully meaning age and not dress size :-), women is attracted to us at that age, is it not realistically possible that girls in their 20s might not also have the same level of attraction as their 40+ counterparts?

Also, it comes to mind, a line from a movie I recently went to with my 24 year old Mexican girlfriend. We attended the movie "Venus," with Peter O'toole. In the movie, I enjoyed the delivery of a particular line.

Peter O'toole is an old man, probably 90 years old, and he has a young girl staying with he and another 90 year old room mate. Peter O'toole and the young girl form an emotional friendship. At one point, Peter O'toole is as interested in at least looking at this girls body, kissing her, etc, as he was when he was 20, even though his is sexually impotent.

At one point in the movie, Peter O'toole tells the young girl, "A woman's body is the single most beautiful thing that a man will ever see in his lifetime." The young girl asks, "and what is the most beautiful thing a woman will ever see?" Peter O'toole replies by saying, "Her first born child." Ahhhh, excellent line indeed. This movie was about a young girl, literally faling in emotional love with a 90 year old man. I know it sounds crazy. But, if we fully understand woman, it is not impossible.

I hold onto this potential truth, and it sustains me....ahhhhhhh!!! Further psychobabelian analysis is called for....What say you all?

[QUOTE=Wastedgman]Bob, I was setting at my usual table last niht when that lady who sells outfits to the girls was talking to me. She asked about you. She plain straight forward told me 2 things:
1- She thinks you are a handsom man, and ...
2- She wants you ... Yes .. She likes you and asked me to let you know.

So there. Now you know.

But I very politly told her that you like them below 20 years old.

Wasted[/QUOTE]

"Therefore, logically, to extrapolate, if a 40+ (hopefully meaning age and not dress size :-), women is attracted to us at that age, is it not realistically possible that girls in their 20s might not also have the same level of attraction as their 40+ counterparts?"

Answer: No.

I talked once the subject with my Obsession GF. Asked her if she thought BEFORE she started working at a SC, if she could fall for an older guy.
She said no.
If she had stayed in the "bright side", on a regular job, she would have never ever turned to look at an older guy, specialy me, that Iam 25 years older than her.

I also asked her the following question: "Do you think you would still like me once you return to a regular job in the bright side and you forget the SC job"?
She just stared at me... I answered for her: "no".

Once they leave the business, their point of view of life reverts a normal status of references, of checks and balances they once belong to.
The first thing they do once they star moving around in the normal world is totally forget whatever reminds them of their former selves and in the case of my GF and me... that would be me.

Anyway, I would be the first to let them go.
Once they forget the old checks and balances and go back to normalcy, there is no stopping them from doing what ever they want to do.
That includes doing stupid things.
The money we pay them puts the break on them. Their ho job puts the break on them too.

PS: "Most would consider such a revelation, that an older woman is attracted to us, as a bit of a downer"

Only you USB, could think that way. Me, I love mature women...
.. of course the CORRECT WORDING refering to the lady that selld dresses to the girls should be UGLY OLDER WOMEN!!!!
Now that is a total downer!!!!!





[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Great...I am attracting old women...Just what I had in mind :-))))

Consider this logic...Most would consider such a revelation, that an older woman is attracted to us, as a bit of a downer, verdad?

But USB rises above it all....This illustrates the power of positive thinking.

As we age, do we not believe a young girl to be as beautiful to us at our SIGNIFICANTLY advanced ages, as we would have thought them to be when we were 20?

So, that having been established. Is it not also correct to assume, that girls have the same kind of attraction at age 40+...as they would quite possibly have had at age 20? I mean, I am as attracted to certain girls in the same way as I am now attracted to certain girls. I like them short, thin, morena, cute face, fantastic body...nothing's changed with my age with respect to what attracts me, verdad?

Therefore, logically, to extrapolate, if a 40+ (hopefully meaning age and not dress size :-), women is attracted to us at that age, is it not realistically possible that girls in their 20s might not also have the same level of attraction as their 40+ counterparts?

Also, it comes to mind, a line from a movie I recently went to with my 24 year old Mexican girlfriend. We attended the movie "Venus," with Peter O'toole. In the movie, I enjoyed the delivery of a particular line.

Peter O'toole is an old man, probably 90 years old, and he has a young girl staying with he and another 90 year old room mate. Peter O'toole and the young girl form an emotional friendship. At one point, Peter O'toole is as interested in at least looking at this girls body, kissing her, etc, as he was when he was 20, even though his is sexually impotent.

At one point in the movie, Peter O'toole tells the young girl, "A woman's body is the single most beautiful thing that a man will ever see in his lifetime." The young girl asks, "and what is the most beautiful thing a woman will ever see?" Peter O'toole replies by saying, "Her first born child." Ahhhh, excellent line indeed. This movie was about a young girl, literally faling in emotional love with a 90 year old man. I know it sounds crazy. But, if we fully understand woman, it is not impossible.

I hold onto this potential truth, and it sustains me....ahhhhhhh!!! Further psychobabelian analysis is called for....What say you all?[/QUOTE]

It is very interesting that you would go the distance and ask them those questions.

I would expect that the girls who leave the business do not go cold turkey. I think they go through phases.

One of those early phases, right after they actually leave the clubs, is a short period of complete boycott of the business followed by the desire to lookup her regular clients and go house calls or out on dates with them. That I do not see as romance at all. I see it as a side job but without the hassle of the club. She shows the guy a good time and then collects her regular fee, if not plus extras if she sweat talks her way to the guy's heart making him think he is the one and only. I know. I am the one and only for Lady J who totally quit the club scene.

Another phase is when they move in or marry someone from the club. She then realizes a few month or a year later that she was only giving him a long session but at home instead of the club. Wouldn't all of us love to take a girl out on a one year salida? No club fees no nothing. You just feed her and help her continue to be pretty. Good deal.

?? But fall in love with us ?? To them we are old ugly perverts just like we enjoy their company but know real well we are dealing with cute little sl8ts.

OK. That's it for now.

Wasted.

[QUOTE=Amigomio] Asked her if she thought BEFORE she started working at a SC, if she could fall for an older guy.
She said no.

I also asked her the following question: "Do you think you would still like me once you return to a regular job in the bright side and you forget the SC job"?
She just stared at me... I answered for her: "no".
[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Amigomio]"Therefore, logically, to extrapolate, if a 40+ (hopefully meaning age and not dress size :-), women is attracted to us at that age, is it not realistically possible that girls in their 20s might not also have the same level of attraction as their 40+ counterparts?"

Answer: No.

I talked once the subject with my Obsession GF. Asked her if she thought BEFORE she started working at a SC, if she could fall for an older guy.
She said no.
If she had stayed in the "bright side", on a regular job, she would have never ever turned to look at an older guy, specialy me, that Iam 25 years older than her.

I also asked her the following question: "Do you think you would still like me once you return to a regular job in the bright side and you forget the SC job"?
She just stared at me... I answered for her: "no".

Once they leave the business, their point of view of life reverts a normal status of references, of checks and balances they once belong to.
The first thing they do once they star moving around in the normal world is totally forget whatever reminds them of their former selves and in the case of my GF and me... that would be me.
[/QUOTE]

The girls were being honest.

Non working girls in 18-30 don't even see older guys. Just to go to the mall and watch them --- in Monterrey or any city really. They don't see you. You are invisible. You can be standing right in front of them and they won't see you. They'll bump into you because they didn't see you. If you stare too long, the girl's less attractive friend might notice and tell her that a creepy old guy is leering at her.

Now by flashing the right amount of cash you can get her attention. But it would be cheaper and probably a better experience to go to a pro. And of course, if you're exceptionally guapo or famoso they'll see you. But we regular guys are invisible. We're their dad's age.

My taste in women is the same since I was a teenager: 18-24. When I was in my late 20s, these girls stopped seeing me. I became invisible. So now I satisfy my desires for the 18-24 year olds by going to the pros. When I walk into one of the clubs on Carlos' list, the chicas will see me. I don't mind this arrangement because even though I like a lot of the music younger people listen to and I probably am emotionally closer to their age, we don't have a lot in common.

There are some mature women (25+) that will catch my eye in clubs, but women around my age will see me on the street so I don't need to get on a plane and go to Mexico. I'm not invisible.

I have been in other countries, including South American Countries, where the age difference is a common occurence. I have seen this in Asian Countries as well. These are not hookers and their Johns.

Even most recently in Monterrey, when my girlfriend and I were sitting eating a delicious Helados Sultana Ice Cream in the Plaza Real Shopping Center. There, waiting in line for a taxi at the curb were a couple that were at least 25 years apart in age. The girl, probably in her 20s, the guy probably in his late 40s to early 50s. They were just a normal couple.

My girl even commented when I noticed the age difference between them. She quickly said that they appeared to be just a normal couple to her. She even jabbed me a bit, saying that she bets he does not even venture into the clubs. She thought they were a totally legit couple.

It is not an uncommon thing. Perhaps it not as common a thing in a metropolis like Monterrey, a sophisticated city with contemporary stereotypes, modern day sociology, and feminazi values. Super Gato is right, they will stare right through us. Of course, they have no frame of reference from which to buck the sociological stigmas.

Most girls have never been with an older man. So, to use the mall girls as an example doesn't really make a true comparison. The better comparison are the girls in the clubs that have experienced older men and enjoy it. Those girls have become used to the idea, are not afraid of it, and have developed an open mindedness about it. Those are truly the enlightened girls. Their sisters that are in the mall haven't a clue because they are mired in the sociology that keeps them consistent with what society dictates.

Finally, how many movie stars, rock stars, etc...have women half their ages. These women are attracted by the something other than physical attraction. They are attracted by the totality of package, the money, the power, the fame, the experience, etc...Conversely, how many older movie actresses and classic rock divas have twenty year old husbands?

My point is, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If you're older, you have to use all your abilities, resources, talents, experience understanding women....things that the 20 something males are clueless about. I refuse to believe that a twenty year old kid can touch me when it comes to understanding the female mind. Write yourselves off if you want to...

Of course there are exceptions... but I would have need to have seen this said couple.

Believe me USB... you WANT to SEE... therefore you must have acomodated.

You might have believed there was a 25 year diference but it might have been less than 10 years.

There is a point in our years where we don't see difference between a 20 year old and a 26-28 even a 30 year old.

My Obsss GF is just 26 and she doesn't look over 20 years.
My Harem GF is 28 and she doesn't seem over 24-25

We tend to see the span of age that encompasses the 20's as... one single year.
It's like my 28 year old friend at Pasarelas.. I bet you USB, you thought she was in her early 20's.

At our age, their age will trick us....



[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]I have been in other countries, including South American Countries, where the age difference is a common occurence. I have seen this in Asian Countries as well. These are not hookers and their Johns.

Even most recently in Monterrey, when my girlfriend and I were sitting eating a delicious Helados Sultana Ice Cream in the Plaza Real Shopping Center. There, waiting in line for a taxi at the curb were a couple that were at least 25 years apart in age. The girl, probably in her 20s, the guy probably in his late 40s to early 50s. They were just a normal couple.

My girl even commented when I noticed the age difference between them. She quickly said that they appeared to be just a normal couple to her. She even jabbed me a bit, saying that she bets he does not even venture into the clubs. She thought they were a totally legit couple.

It is not an uncommon thing. Perhaps it not as common a thing in a metropolis like Monterrey, a sophisticated city with contemporary stereotypes, modern day sociology, and feminazi values. Super Gato is right, they will stare right through us. Of course, they have no frame of reference from which to buck the sociological stigmas.

Most girls have never been with an older man. So, to use the mall girls as an example doesn't really make a true comparison. The better comparison are the girls in the clubs that have experienced older men and enjoy it. Those girls have become used to the idea, are not afraid of it, and have developed an open mindedness about it. Those are truly the enlightened girls. Their sisters that are in the mall haven't a clue because they are mired in the sociology that keeps them consistent with what society dictates.

Finally, how many movie stars, rock stars, etc...have women half their ages. These women are attracted by the something other than physical attraction. They are attracted by the totality of package, the money, the power, the fame, the experience, etc...Conversely, how many older movie actresses and classic rock divas have twenty year old husbands?

My point is, there is more than one way to skin a cat. If you're older, you have to use all your abilities, resources, talents, experience understanding women....things that the 20 something males are clueless about. I refuse to believe that a twenty year old kid can touch me when it comes to understanding the female mind. Write yourselves off if you want to...[/QUOTE]

Girls that look around age 28, are now seemingly over the hill when I make a judgment as to my interest level. Most of the time, I am not impressed by girls that are over the age of 26. To me, they appear just too old, a wrinkle here, too much fat there, too soft, etc...I mean, when you compare them to the 20 year old divas we routinely mess around with, girls that are older than about 26 are just not that alluring to me.

With respect to our recent experience sitting on the benches at Plaza Real, looking at the couple waiting for the taxi, I made this comment to my GFE that I believed the girl looked to be about mid to late 20s. She said she thought she looked 18-19 years old. The guy was definitely in his late 40s early 50s, perhaps even as old as 56-58 years old. The girl could have been older than she looked, perhaps as old as 26-30 years old, although I believe her to definitely appear much younger than thirty years old.

I remember talking recently to a girl at Obsession. She was telling me about her family. She told me her father was 65 years old, and her mother is 45 years old. I asked if they are happy, and she said they are very happy together. I was simply asking questions about her life, her family, and not hinting at any age difference. I think that age difference was more accepted a number of years ago, and it's less common today than it may have formerly been in Mexico. But, none the less, it does still routinely exist there, certainly more so than in the USA, where the phenomenon is virtually non-existent. I find these things out about the families of the girls when I am casually talking to them. You would be surprised how often they reveal the age difference between their parents is between 10-20 years. Even in the case of my own GFs parents, the age difference is about 20 years.

I believe however, that as Mexico becomes closer and closer sociologically to the USA, this phenomenon will virtually vanish. However, if you examine other culture of world, you will find that this phenomenon is still alive and well in many places.

I don't necessarily believe these things because I am "wanting" them to be true. I am simply making observations of what I've observed to be true about other couples, without bias, sometimes through direct observation, and through lines of questioning that reveal the reality.

Believe me, I realize that this phenomenon is not the rule of thumb in Monterrey. I realize that it's probably a more common situation in more rural parts of Mexico. I realize that the more common situation is what we all observe, people of similar ages getting together.

However, I also realize, from my own personal experiences with these club girls, that regardless of their inherent preference to see men in the same age range, it does not preclude us from turning them from their sociologically imposed predisposition to have a prejudice against being open to, and enjoying their time with, an older man.

My point is, I have simply broken the barrier myself, and realize that I limit my own potential possibilities if I adopt the same preconceived notions imposed primarily by society's taboos, when I know the girls are not really that bias in the privacy of my own bedroom where they can hide from the stigma.

If the girls respond to your questions about whether they would typically like seeing you as an older man, they are simply mimicking what they are expected to say, and also revealing what they would prefer their own scenarios to be. But, it does not necessarily mean that in your particular circumstance, they are not surprised themselves at how much they actually enjoy being with you, almost afraid to admit it to themselves for fear of being considered "strange." What they say, and how you can make them feel, are two different things entirely. I have proven it many times over.

I am merely saying not to allow your biases to limit your own aspirations to break through the sociological age barrier. It can and is routinely broken, if you want it, and work at it. It's just that we have to work harder at it than the 20 somethings, and we have to use things other than the advantage of younger age to achieve it.

But, then again, we have huge advantages over the 20 somethings in life experiences, and hopefully at understanding what motivates a women. Plus, remember, the 20 somethings are lazy, taking their advantage for granted. We, on the other hand, realize our handicap, and we realize the necessity of bringing all of our skills to bear if we are to succeed in circumstances where they do not have to even try. Their lack in effort, and their taking their age advantage for granted, is my best ally. Because, most Mexican girls are really not too thrilled, emotionally, with their 20 something boyfriends. Just ask them.

The bottom line is that with "good" girls, we will never get a chance. But, thank GOD, with these bar girls, we get the opportunity to introduce ourselves to them. For the sake of money, we are given our opportunity to transcend the physical act and have a shot at something deeper, something legit. If we are lucky, we can get much more than we bargained for in the initial transaction. That is all I am saying.

[QUOTE=Amigomio]Of course there are exceptions... but I would have need to have seen this said couple.

Believe me USB... you WANT to SEE... therefore you must have acomodated.

You might have believed there was a 25 year diference but it might have been less than 10 years.

There is a point in our years where we don't see difference between a 20 year old and a 26-28 even a 30 year old.

My Obsss GF is just 26 and she doesn't look over 20 years.
My Harem GF is 28 and she doesn't seem over 24-25

We tend to see the span of age that encompasses the 20's as... one single year.
It's like my 28 year old friend at Pasarelas.. I bet you USB, you thought she was in her early 20's.

At our age, their age will trick us....[/QUOTE]

Whoa down!!!!

"Most of the time, I am not impressed by girls that are over the age of 26. To me, they appear just too old, a wrinkle here, too much fat there, too soft, etc..."

What do you think the girls think of us???
Let me advance you an answer: that we are the pits.

I have told you many times that you guys have the fortune of not being able to understand 90% of what the girls say and boy, are you lucky.
I have to deal with them coming up to me and saying right up front saying "where do you meet all those crazy geezers".
They don't care if they offend or not, or risk losing a potential customer cause they got tons of boys after them.

By now I still see that you have not regained touch with what you are dealing with and the worst part is that did talk about this last time you were here.
One of my recomendations has always been, keep track of the girls, make a register of them, the usual who, what and where so that when you come back you know who you should be with and who not to lose time with.

You always say 2 things when you come to Monterrey:
I don't have time to waste. I need to get the girl quickly.

This has been your total perdition many times.
Your reasoning has been that you will not see the girl the next time you come back... and by now, you have come back many many times and you still have contact with the same club manifest.
And you burn the fuse too fast with the girls trying to hit at them too quickly.
And again, it's a lesson you haven't learned.


And speaking of enchiladas...
My sometimes choices of older girls goes with the fact that it's easier to deal with girls over 25 in the business. They are much more intelectualy mature than their 18-20something counterparts and they are more willing to see an older man than the younger girls.
Which is an irrefutable fact.

There is one thing USB, that even involves you and that is that your girl is 24 going on 25, meaning that she is now in range of what I have just pointed out to you, meaning also that you are one year from contradicting yourself in terms of not wanting to go out with older girls.
(May I point out that both Cindy #1 and Cindy #2 were 24-25 when you met them and you still want to see Cindy #1... another contradiction).







[QUOTE=UnospongeBob]Girls that look around age 28, are now seemingly over the hill when I make a judgment as to my interest level. Most of the time, I am not impressed by girls that are over the age of 26. To me, they appear just too old, a wrinkle here, too much fat there, too soft, etc...I mean, when you compare them to the 20 year old divas we routinely mess around with, girls that are older than about 26 are just not that alluring to me.

With respect to our recent experience sitting on the benches at Plaza Real, looking at the couple waiting for the taxi, I made this comment to my GFE that I believed the girl looked to be about mid to late 20s. She said she thought she looked 18-19 years old. The guy was definitely in his late 40s early 50s, perhaps even as old as 56-58 years old. The girl could have been older than she looked, perhaps as old as 26-30 years old, although I believe her to definitely appear much younger than thirty years old.

I remember talking recently to a girl at Obsession. She was telling me about her family. She told me her father was 65 years old, and her mother is 45 years old. I asked if they are happy, and she said they are very happy together. I was simply asking questions about her life, her family, and not hinting at any age difference. I think that age difference was more accepted a number of years ago, and it's less common today than it may have formerly been in Mexico. But, none the less, it does still routinely exist there, certainly more so than in the USA, where the phenomenon is virtually non-existent. I find these things out about the families of the girls when I am casually talking to them. You would be surprised how often they reveal the age difference between their parents is between 10-20 years. Even in the case of my own GFs parents, the age difference is about 20 years.

I believe however, that as Mexico becomes closer and closer sociologically to the USA, this phenomenon will virtually vanish. However, if you examine other culture of world, you will find that this phenomenon is still alive and well in many places.

I don't necessarily believe these things because I am "wanting" them to be true. I am simply making observations of what I've observed to be true about other couples, without bias, sometimes through direct observation, and through lines of questioning that reveal the reality.

Believe me, I realize that this phenomenon is not the rule of thumb in Monterrey. I realize that it's probably a more common situation in more rural parts of Mexico. I realize that the more common situation is what we all observe, people of similar ages getting together.

However, I also realize, from my own personal experiences with these club girls, that regardless of their inherent preference to see men in the same age range, it does not preclude us from turning them from their sociologically imposed predisposition to have a prejudice against being open to, and enjoying their time with, an older man.

My point is, I have simply broken the barrier myself, and realize that I limit my own potential possibilities if I adopt the same preconceived notions imposed primarily by society's taboos, when I know the girls are not really that bias in the privacy of my own bedroom where they can hide from the stigma.

If the girls respond to your questions about whether they would typically like seeing you as an older man, they are simply mimicking what they are expected to say, and also revealing what they would prefer their own scenarios to be. But, it does not necessarily mean that in your particular circumstance, they are not surprised themselves at how much they actually enjoy being with you, almost afraid to admit it to themselves for fear of being considered "strange." What they say, and how you can make them feel, are two different things entirely. I have proven it many times over.

I am merely saying not to allow your biases to limit your own aspirations to break through the sociological age barrier. It can and is routinely broken, if you want it, and work at it. It's just that we have to work harder at it than the 20 somethings, and we have to use things other than the advantage of younger age to achieve it.

But, then again, we have huge advantages over the 20 somethings in life experiences, and hopefully at understanding what motivates a women. Plus, remember, the 20 somethings are lazy, taking their advantage for granted. We, on the other hand, realize our handicap, and we realize the necessity of bringing all of our skills to bear if we are to succeed in circumstances where they do not have to even try. Their lack in effort, and their taking their age advantage for granted, is my best ally. Because, most Mexican girls are really not too thrilled, emotionally, with their 20 something boyfriends. Just ask them.

The bottom line is that with "good" girls, we will never get a chance. But, thank GOD, with these bar girls, we get the opportunity to introduce ourselves to them. For the sake of money, we are given our opportunity to transcend the physical act and have a shot at something deeper, something legit. If we are lucky, we can get much more than we bargained for in the initial transaction. That is all I am saying.[/QUOTE]