Manila

[QUOTE=Lefeu;1728937]I would like to disagree with you my friend. Treating a working girl like a girlfriend has worked wonder for me. I suggest you try this approach. You may be pleasantly surprised.[/QUOTE]I've lived in the Philippines for almost 19 years now and I understand what you are saying, but you are still fooling yourself with the notion of the GFE.

No matter how much you want to spin it, sweet pretty young things giving GFE to a much older guy who may be bald, fat, ugly or tall, athletic and well-dressed is still a charade on her part, even if you convince yourself that she really does love to be with you.

As an Aussie, I treat everyone with respect, whether it's a bar / g, a hard-core working girl, a shop assistant or a beggar but you're going way beyond this notion of "respect".

It's OK for you to treat "working girls" like girlfriends but you shouldn't delude yourself that she really is "into" you.

Her devotion lasts as long as the transaction, after which it is back to business as usual after her pleasant little interlude, unless, of course, there is the prospect of her seeing you again (tomorrow; next week?) in which case she will prolong the charade.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1729005]I've lived in the Philippines for almost 19 years now and I understand what you are saying, but you are still fooling yourself with the notion of the GFE.

No matter how much you want to spin it, sweet pretty young things giving GFE to a much older guy who may be bald, fat, ugly or tall, athletic and well-dressed is still a charade on her part, even if you convince yourself that she really does love to be with you.

As an Aussie, I treat everyone with respect, whether it's a bar / g, a hard-core working girl, a shop assistant or a beggar but you're going way beyond this notion of "respect".

It's OK for you to treat "working girls" like girlfriends but you shouldn't delude yourself that she really is "into" you.

Her devotion lasts as long as the transaction, after which it is back to business as usual after her pleasant little interlude, unless, of course, there is the prospect of her seeing you again (tomorrow; next week?) in which case she will prolong the charade.[/QUOTE]Would 100% agree with this.

I've had 1 exception and it was with a girl who basically was paying off a loan at a massage parlor. Girl skipped out of town to avoid the loan. Went to visit her at the MP and found out she wasn't there anymore. I left and a few minutes later was followed out by other WGs asking / demanding for the girl's phone number. I gave them her phone number with a few digits off. I called her phone number which was based in a different city and warned her what happened. Unfortunately, the email address that I gave her was an account that stupid yahoo locked me out and I never got access again. Guess that's how fate works sometimes (although I don't believe in fate). Hope she is doing well and landed on her feet.

If it had been a few years later, I would have paid off the loan myself and let her live her life conscious free. (I had very little money saved up back then.).

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1729005]I've lived in the Philippines for almost 19 years now and I understand what you are saying, but you are still fooling yourself with the notion of the GFE.

No matter how much you want to spin it, sweet pretty young things giving GFE to a much older guy who may be bald, fat, ugly or tall, athletic and well-dressed is still a charade on her part, even if you convince yourself that she really does love to be with you.

As an Aussie, I treat everyone with respect, whether it's a bar / g, a hard-core working girl, a shop assistant or a beggar but you're going way beyond this notion of "respect".

It's OK for you to treat "working girls" like girlfriends but you shouldn't delude yourself that she really is "into" you.

Her devotion lasts as long as the transaction, after which it is back to business as usual after her pleasant little interlude, unless, of course, there is the prospect of her seeing you again (tomorrow; next week?) in which case she will prolong the charade.[/QUOTE]I can't claim as long in country as RK, but I've been here long enough to have come to the same conclusion. I believe in literature and drama there's a concept called "willing suspension of disbelief," which is, I suggest the ideal way to approach the endlessly re-enacted playlets between be-girls and punters. She pretends--often quite convincingly--to enjoy you for who you are, and you pretend (hopefully recognizing the pretense) that she's just enjoying the entire experience of being with you. As long as both actors in the drama realize they're each enacting a script there's no harm, no foul and a good time can be had by all. Filipinos are, I believe the best, which is to say the most convincing at playing these roles it's true, but it's important to remember that these are merely roles. Like RK, I try to treat everyone with whom I interact with respect and with dignity, and I expect to be treated the same way by virtue of my own humanity.

GE.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1729005]
Her devotion lasts as long as the transaction, after which it is back to business as usual after her pleasant little interlude, unless, of course, there is the prospect of her seeing you again (tomorrow; next week?) in which case she will prolong the charade.[/QUOTE]This is why I think so many foreigner / bar girl marriages end in disaster. A bar girl can never clock off the job in her mind, even if she is not physically pulling tricks on the side. The notion of normality doesn't exist. There's something in her make up which prevents her from being the marrying type.

[QUOTE=RedKilt;1728880]In the final analysis, you are setting out to deceive her into getting what you want.[/QUOTE]No I'm not, your analysis is wrong. The girl and I both know that I will pay her to have sex with me, I just prefer not to make it like a business transaction and girls undoubtedly appreciate it. Many have told me so. Girls have told me that although they are prostitutes they don't like being treated like a piece of meat.

Although I accept that my modus operandi means there is a chance that the girls could offer me a restricted menu or do a midnight runner, they never do. The way I see it, the better you treat them, the better they will treat you in return. Treat them like a prostitute and they will act like one. Nothing wrong with that of course. I could meet a girl in LA Cafe and have the kind of girlfriend experience I crave and the next night you could go with the same girl and come on her face and fuck her up the arse as much as you like, rules of engagement signed off in the bar.

As so often is the case on this site, there is no right or wrong answer.

You sound incredulous that people like me talk about the 'girlfriend experience' but I find it utterly bewildering that some people talk about 'interviewing' their choice of girl in the bar. I suspect it comes down to the individual. If you are old, fat and ugly (your words) then it's probably a good idea to establish terms and conditions beforehand. That's not me having a cheap shot by the way (I have no idea what anyone on this site looks like), but the elephant in the room here, which rarely gets discussed on this forum which so often seems to think that there is one golden rule for all, is that the older and uglier you are, the more you might need to establish ground rules before you take a girl. Maybe because I'm relatively young, slim, blue eyes and smile a lot, and don't treat them like prostitutes, the girls are sufficiently relaxed to give me what I want without me asking.

[QUOTE=SirLancelot;1729302].



I have no idea what anyone on this site looks like.[/QUOTE]Just for the record, we are all young (ish) slim (ish), all possess blue eyes (except when brown green grey or just beer soaked red), muscle bound (ish), tanned (don't let the pink and red fool you, we're tanned).

And were often compared to Brad, George, and Vikings in general. LOL.

Those fat, bald, brown eyed guys. We don't know who they are.

[QUOTE=SirLancelot;1729302]
You sound incredulous that people like me talk about the 'girlfriend experience' but I find it utterly bewildering that some people talk about 'interviewing' their choice of girl in the bar. I suspect it comes down to the individual. If you are old, fat and ugly (your words) then it's probably a good idea to establish terms and conditions beforehand. That's not me having a cheap shot by the way (I have no idea what anyone on this site looks like), but the elephant in the room here, which rarely gets discussed on this forum which so often seems to think that there is one golden rule for all, is that the older and uglier you are, the more you might need to establish ground rules before you take a girl. Maybe because I'm relatively young, slim, blue eyes and smile a lot, and don't treat them like prostitutes, the girls are sufficiently relaxed to give me what I want without me asking.[/QUOTE]When your job is to fuck 300 foreign men a year for cash (in AC), the girls stop worrying about your physical appearance. I'm sure they say each of their customers is handsome, sexy etc. As others have pointed out, the girls are far cleverer in working you out than you might think. You are just a sucker who is going to blow a month's average pay in the Philippines on her in one night. The more you treat her like a princess, the more she is thinking that you are an idiot. By all means do treat her with respect, but don't go overboard. The purpose of the interview is establish what you are getting to limit the surprise factor when you get to your room. It is a business transaction. The girls are not fooled into thinking thinking this is some kind of romantic date. Only the punter is. What passes for a GFE and 'romance' is a just a good act by the girl. Don't think otherwise.

Treating her extremely well is no guarantee of a good outcome. The runners and the non-performers I had were treated exceptionally well beforehand with dinner, drinks and kindness and even an offer of deferring sex till the morning. By running or not performing, she is exerting the power she has over you (just like your wife or girlfriend). Sometimes you have to accept that the girl is jaded, worn out and is sick of fucking strange men each day. The burn out rate in AC is very high and I can understand that. After a while it's all just a blur for her.

[QUOTE=EngineDriver;1729353]When your job is to fuck 300 foreign men a year for cash (in AC), the girls stop worrying about your physical appearance. I'm sure they say each of their customers is handsome, sexy etc. As others have pointed out, the girls are far cleverer in working you out than you might think. You are just a sucker who is going to blow a month's average pay in the Philippines on her in one night. The more you treat her like a princess, the more she is thinking that you are an idiot. By all means do treat her with respect, but don't go overboard. The purpose of the interview is establish what you are getting to limit the surprise factor when you get to your room. It is a business transaction. The girls are not fooled into thinking thinking this is some kind of romantic date. Only the punter is. What passes for a GFE and 'romance' is a just a good act by the girl. Don't think otherwise.

Treating her extremely well is no guarantee of a good outcome. The runners and the non-performers I had were treated exceptionally well beforehand with dinner, drinks and kindness and even an offer of deferring sex till the morning. By running or not performing, she is exerting the power she has over you (just like your wife or girlfriend). Sometimes you have to accept that the girl is jaded, worn out and is sick of fucking strange men each day. The burn out rate in AC is very high and I can understand that. After a while it's all just a blur for her.[/QUOTE]This is Manila forum, not AC. Although there are working girls here, the vast majority are what you call semi-pro. They do this to supplement their income, and have some latitude to choose who they fuck.

Given the same amount of payout, a girl would choose to be with a more attractive person.

[QUOTE=Hutsori;1728498]What a mess. I don't understand how one has his wits about him to negotiate a barfine (not merely accept the initial price) but fails to discuss the details of the deal. But hey, different people's noggins work differently. When left vague what is understood between both parties can differ significantly, as seen here. Adding more complexity is the expectation that the other party is obliged to make things clear. In my life experience when I assigned unstated obligations to others, especially those who are strangers, it hasn't led to a satisfactory outcome usually. Better to make such demands of yourself by telling others exactly what you want; you'll be less likely to left disappointed or, worse, spend hours bickering and hear threats of police intervention. Implicit is rarely better than explicit. How some people choose to spend their precious vacation time...

In reading other FRs I know there who are some here who advocate not going over the details prior to paying a barfine. This FR shows the risks of this clearly. What one gains by leaving things unclear has never been explained to me compellingly.[/QUOTE]Actually I always discuss the details beforehand. Call it beer-haze or what, that night I clean forgot. And when I realized my mistake as she was leaving, I wasn't going to tell that gal who I thought was trying to scam me anything like, oh my bad I forgot, you go easy. LOL. I just pretended it was her fault she didn't make it clear to me just to make life difficult for her. In the end it was the cognizance of this little mistake of mine that made me capitulate.

I've had originally interested women lose interest in me when I ask them "how many times" or "you do ass? Questions. The latest was just a few days back in Subic. On the other hand many gals who didn't want to do it four times by morning and backed out, when I clearly had the drive for it, I appreciated their honesty and the trouble it saved me.

Looking at the posts following - Regarding GFE it is true that one has to delude oneself into believing it is real love or romance, but then I see too many gals struggling to cope with the morality of what they do have problems when you treat them like "I pay you so you come with me" attitude. So I would advocate striking a balance where you play the game for the sake of game. Just to keep their attitude towards yourself playful flirty, enthusiastic and willing. No more. Call it a social skills game more than a GFE delusion if you wish. Just today I met a filipina salesgal who took great interest in me. And I do want to play it like a pretend-romance to enjoy her warmth and sunshine smile and oodles of charm. If there is one thing I love about filipinas it is their ability to make believe a real romance is happening while they secretly need your money. Who wants a business like transaction all the time, when one can try and play that romantic lover for practice and for kicks? Its got its own charm.

Cheers.

P.

Engine Driver.

Almost every part of your email backs up a point I made in my post. For some reason, some people believe that there is one golden rule in Philippines that applies to everyone. There isn't. Different approaches work for different people. You like to 'interview' girls in the bar (I hate the phrase 'interview') and seem to get reasonable results most of the time, I treat them as little like a prostitute as I can and get great results. Without asking I seem to get the same end results as you (or dare I say better) and yet you are telling me that I'm doing it all wrong. I think that says more about your insecurities than anything I'm doing.

I read your recent reports on the Angeles page and get the impression that just because of a few knock-backs you now have a suspicion of most of these girls. You think they are hardened pro's who 'fucks 300 foreign men a year for cash' (your words) and it's all just cold, hard business for them. Thinking about it, you make them sound like western prostitutes. For you to say 'the more you treat her like a princess, the more she is thinking that you are an idiot' makes me wonder whether either you're picking the wrong girls or you need to polish up on your conversational skills. Your experiences simply don't tally with mine.

[QUOTE=EngineDriver;1729353]Treating her extremely well is no guarantee of a good outcome.[/QUOTE]It seems to be for me.

Feels like I am at work, reading long emails again. Why don't you guys just PM each other!

[QUOTE=MrTran;1729745]Feels like I am at work, reading long emails again. Why don't you guys just PM each other![/QUOTE]Disagree. Its good to see the differing opinions.

Wanted to know if the clubs are open and what the availability is like, thanks.

Everyone goes to church on Sundays. Wait until Monday.

[QUOTE=SirLancelot;1729728]{S N I P}
For you to say 'the more you treat her like a princess, the more she is thinking that you are an idiot' makes me wonder whether either you're picking the wrong girls or you need to polish up on your conversational skills. Your experiences simply don't tally with mine.[/QUOTE]There is an enormous difference between 'treating the girl well', and making her feel comfortable with you.

Sir LL, it is much more than just conversation skills. You have the personality and (probably innate) ability to make the SYT feel comfortable with you. There are many aspects to this - attentiveness, genuine interest, showing appreciation, etc etc.

Feigned politeness and civility, and buying a girl dinner, gifts or whatever have little to do in determining whether or not she is going to do a runner or be a non-performer. And yes, most girls are skilled in identifying whether or not the words come from your heart!

And I disagree with ED, that a punter's physical appearance does not impact the performance of the SYT.

Ikksman.