Hey, good for you! That was just a Trot, not a Gallop!
[QUOTE=DCups;2927700]Elvis, my man! You are spot on! I think I will call him Loony Tooms, too. He used to use Smoothie as a handle but things got all jumbled up or maybe too rough, apparently. Anyway all the dumbocrats on this board are freaking out now because their shit is hitting the fan. Even the media types so you know it is bad for them. I wonder when the dumb fuckers will finally realize that Biden and Company are responsible for the tanked economy, rise in crime and the whole woke thing. Bring it on, dumbocrats! Your days are numbered![/QUOTE]See, now short and sweet bursts of Repub MAGA lies like that are manageable. Thanks for keeping it at a Gish Trot instead of a Gish Gallop:
1. I have never had a user name on this site other than the one you see now.
2. The economy never tanked under either Obama-Biden or Biden-Harris. Both were astoundingly positive recoveries, expansions and jobs creation presidencies compared to the adjacent Repub administration.
Meaning, if you want to cite historic economic tanking, that would be the GW Bush economy and the Donald J. Trump economy. Don't even bother looking for a Dem economy for that over the past 100 years.
3. Crime is at decades' long lows under Biden after a couple of shocking upward spikes under Trump.
Corrupt 2/3 conservative SCOTUS (aka. MAGA 6)....doesn't pass the smell test?
[QUOTE=The Cane;2927569]Look man. You guys have got to stop being myopic and get real about this. Remember that one day there will be a Democratic President in office. And do you want lying, mean-spirited, assholes going after that person for everything they do while in office? Presidents, both Democratic and Republican, [B]need[/B] to have immunity for their [B]official[/B] acts. Otherwise, they will be hamstrung to do anything is office. We have a system of checks and balances and equal powers between the branches, and immunity for official presidential acts is a way to preserve that. Same with appointing judges for life. Otherwise, you have ex-Presidents being thrown in jail because somebody didn't like their policies or judges being jailed because somebody didn't like their rulings. Now [B]that[/B] would be a sad day for America. We may as be some place that's less than who we've been on this from our founding, like Brazil or some shit.
...
In short, the sky is not falling because [B]Presidents[/B] (not just Trump) have been granted immunity for their official acts. The granting of immunity for certain types of officials acting in their official capacities in nothing new in American jurisprudence. And indeed, given the nature of man (mean-spirited, petty, vindictive you name it), it's a necessary tool to allow the system to function. Regarding Trump himself, I think some incredibly strong arguments can be made that he did plenty wrong that falls outside of an "official act". The absolute worst thing that can happen is if he wins again. Then he can just wipe stuff away. Seems so wrong! But, I'm a big believer that what goes around comes around. Which means that one way or another? He's going to get what he deserves! This is high stakes![/QUOTE]
Overall a good post on presidential immunity, much of it I've never disagreed with.
However, I think what your post failed to realize, state or mention, is the one distinction, [u]I clearly empathized[/u] in my post (see below and EihTooms' "tongue in cheek" post), was that, no matter which "KING" sits a top the throne at the White House, ultimately, said [i][b]"Kingly Powers"[/b] (aka. presidential immunity),[/i] won't be the same for a Dem vs. a Repub president, with a corrupt 2/3 conservative SCOTUS, that could and would preside and make these immunity decisions, as 2/3 conservative majority, for several decades to come.
[QUOTE=Spidy;2927513]...And while President Biden, may now have [i][b]"King like powers"[/b][/i], rest assured that may not translate as well, under a corrupt 2/3 conservative SCOTUS, where the rules of law, [b][i]"suddenly shift",[/i][/b] according to partisanship politics and who's in the White House. Meaning those [i]"King like powers"[/i] in all likelihood, would look, feel and convey something very different, than if say, a narcissist, lying, cheater, racist, fascist, dictatorial [b]"Project 2025"[/b] president were in office and a 2/3 conservative SCOTUS is presiding. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2927519]As long as the King takes any silly threat of indictment all the way up to the Repub MAGA 6 in the SCOTUS for The Ultimate Ruling on it, it is 100% certain the King will prevail.
Now, I hope nobody is suggesting the highly principled, Federalist, Original-ist, non political Repub MAGA 6 would rule any question of criminality differently for, say, a King Biden vs a King Trump!
Or a King Gaetz.
Or a Queen Greene.
Perish the thought![/QUOTE]
Look, while Repubs would have you think, this ruling is no big deal, [i][b]"nothing to see here"[/b][/i]...it is every bit a huge deal. Just like the far reaching implications, with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, by this very same corrupt 2/3 conservative SCOTUS (aka. MAGA 6), the immunity ruling decision, comes with its own set of far reaching implications.
And while the sky may not be falling...today, let's not get blinded or lulled by Repub rhetoric, and not see [i][b]"the bigger picture"[/b][/i] at work here. Again, think the overturning of Roe v. Wade!
With a fascist conservative doctrine like [b]"Project 2025"[/b], that seek to chip-away at our democracy, equalities and freedoms, it is very easy to think, that this type of decision, [b][i]"equally"[/i][/b] enables and supports immunity for a Dem president, as it does for Repub president.
When in reality (IMHO) nothing could be further from the truth. So given the fact, we have a corrupt 2/3 conservative SCOTUS (aka. MAGA 6) and they would have the final say, on what they feel, is and isn't immunity, for a president (supposedly, no matter the party affiliation)...doesn't really past the smell test, for me.
A chip off the ol' Trump "Gish Gallop daddy-block"
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2927487][b]Elvis' perfect example of Trumpian Repub MAGA Gish Gallop in text. [/b]
Any one of the true pro America, pro democracy Patriots here could and has destroyed every one of Elvis' total BS points in that post, right?
...
Thank you, Elvis, for providing the perfect example of how your Trumpian Repub MAGA's Gish Gallop rhetorical chnique works even in text form.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=The Cane;2927562]Then prove it! That disbarred dolt Guiliani couldn't do it. But maybe you can then ay? Either put up or shut up with something that can stand up in a court of law, or for once and for all shut up! ...
...If there were true facts that would hold water in a court of law you and your ilk for sure would have produced them already. But you can't because there aren't any. So you engage in this around and around [b]"gish gallop"[/b] as Tooms puts it... [/QUOTE]
I often love to the phase [i]"...great minds think a like, and weak minds seldom differ"[/i], knowing people will often lose sleep and struggle trying to figure out, of which "minds" they really are in the quote...but I digress.
Anywho, I couldn't help but fall outta my chair laughing when you both applied EihTooms' article on [i][b]"gish gallop"[/i][/b] to Elvis 2008, as that's who immediately came to mind (...kkkk!), when I initially read the article, that EihTooms posted (a few days ago), here:
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2927020]Everyone noticed the flurry of lies coming out of Trump's pie hole at the Presidential Debate Quiz Show. It was no different from what we have all been hearing coming out of his pie hole since 2015.
But at this quiz show he kept coming back to a few favorite Trump Big Lies regarding Immigration, crime, the economy under him vs Biden, etc. I suspect because, even though he knows his only way to survive the kind of "Trump policy" scrutiny the debate threatened to provide required him to use the [B]Gish Gallop[/B] technique, it was much easier for him to simply keep repeating a few favorite Trump Lies over and over again rather than come up with a variety of new ones for every question and response.
And, of course, he and his handlers knew that was an especially effective technique to use against a stutterer opponent. I also suspect he knows Biden will be much more prepared for it next time. If Trump is willing to risk a next time.
[B]What Is Gish Gallop and What Does It Have To Do With Thursdays Debate?[/B]
[URL]https://bearingdrift.com/2024/06/29/what-is-gish-gallop-and-what-does-it-have-to-do-with-thursdays-debate/[/URL][/QUOTE]
Earlier I wanted to post, that the [i][b]"Gish Gallop"[/i][/b] article, sounded [u]eerily similar to a tactic employed by[/u] our resident QAnon/MAGA conspiracist, INCEL and misogynist, Elvis 2008, but you guys beat me to the punch!
Well, one thing is definitely clear, the upstart "Gish Gallop" fledgling, is just a chip off the ol' Trump "Gish Gallop daddy-block" (....kkkk!)
The sky is not Falling. Agree
[QUOTE=TheCane;2927569]Look man. You guys have got to stop being myopic and get real about this. Remember that one day there will be a Democratic President in office. And do you want lying, mean-spirited, assholes going after that person for everything they do while in office? Presidents, both Democratic and Republican, [B]need[/B] to have immunity for their [B]official[/B] acts. Otherwise, they will be hamstrung to do anything is office. We have a system of checks and balances and equal powers between the branches, and immunity for official presidential acts is a way to preserve that. Same with appointing judges for life. Otherwise, you have ex-Presidents being thrown in jail because somebody didn't like their policies or judges being jailed because somebody didn't like their rulings. Now [B]that[/B] would be a sad day for America. We may as be some place that's less than who we've been on this from our founding, like Brazil or some shit.
Now, you're damn right Trump needs to be held accountable! But not allowing immunity for officially performing the job is not the way. Again, remember that no immunity would apply to both Republican [B]and[/B] Democratic presidents. So, the question becomes what's an official act and what isn't? The Supreme Court remanded the case back to the lower courts to consider that question. Like Tiny said, Trump is nowhere off the hook. Think about it. When he took all of those classified documents to his house, he was no longer President of the United States. He was a private citizen. As such, in my view he was not acting in an official capacity. Which means he wasn't entitled to take all that stuff (even if he was classified info has to be properly handled which he didn't do). Of course, you know his lawyers will come up with all kinds of bullshit arguments about why it was in an official capacity, but the government will have all kinds of arguments for why it wasn't. It will all have to be litigated, and I think the government will win. The government has a pretty good record of kicking Trump's fat ass when things finally do get into court. He loses court cases on the merits again and again and again, including in civil court. Terrible client to represent!
In short, the sky is not falling because [B]Presidents[/B] (not just Trump) have been granted immunity for their official acts. The granting of immunity for certain types of officials acting in their official capacities in nothing new in American jurisprudence. And indeed, given the nature of man (mean-spirited, petty, vindictive you name it), it's a necessary tool to allow the system to function. Regarding Trump himself, I think some incredibly strong arguments can be made that he did plenty wrong that falls outside of an "official act". The absolute worst thing that can happen is if he wins again. Then he can just wipe stuff away. Seems so wrong! But, I'm a big believer that what goes around comes around. Which means that one way or another? He's going to get what he deserves! This is high stakes![/QUOTE]While I agree with your assessment that it is not the end of the world with how the decision came about, I will say that it is a miss to not close the loop of future "legal' briberies and corruptions, and criminal deeds.
Also, the decision to remand back to district court to determine if the allegations are within the boundaries of official acts that took 90 days to determine is a collosal waste of time. This court seems to be scared of making tough decisions.
248 years of presidents not going anywhere near the criminal court system, and yet the office "needs" this in order to perform its duty. Thomas Jefferson's Louisiana purchase; Lincoln's civil war; FDR A-bomb drops; Iran-Contra debacle; GW Bush's Iraq war; yet this guy is the one that says, if the president doesn't have absolute immunity then no one will be able to do the job of the president.
Thanks for the fantastic links for your side!
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2927888]Well, I admit it that Biden has been good for jobs creation and he had to be because now you have to work three jobs to pay your rent.
Seriously though, there has been no increase in jobs with native born Americans since 2018 and they are not distinguishing between part time and full time jobs. There is a huge discrepancy between unofficial and official surveys on employment.
And if you listen to Looney Tooms from Thailand, it is okay to go walking around East LA flashing cash. There is no crime under Biden.
As I am sure you know, half the cities are no longer reporting crime because there is so much of it they cannot keep up.
But if you listen to Loony Tooms, all those homeless folks are law abiding citizens. All that needle use is treatment for diabetes.[/QUOTE]Those were fantastic links proving your side. Thanks for that. Oh. No links? No proof for your side? Oops. Nevermind.
How about this shaky source link:
[B]US violent crime decreased in 2023, continuing to reverse pandemic-era spike, FBI data shows.
March 20, 2024[/B]
[URL]https://fox59.com/news/politics/ap-politics/ap-us-violent-crime-decreased-in-2023-continuing-to-reverse-pandemic-era-spike-fbi-data-shows/[/URL]
[QUOTE]WASHINGTON (AP) New FBI statistics show overall violent crime in the U.S. dropped again last year, continuing a downward trend after a pandemic-era spike.
Murders dropped 13% in the last three months of 2023 compared with the same period the year before, according to FBI data released this week. Violent crime overall was down 6%.
Property crime also ticked downward about 3% in the nation as a whole, though in the Northeast and in large cities over a million people it increased by about the same amount.
The quarterly report released Tuesday is based on data sent to the FBI from about 80% of the law enforcement agencies in the country. Final detailed data for 2023 is expected to be released in the fall.
President Joe Biden said the drop in the murder rate was one of the steepest in the countrys history. [B]The $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, passed in 2021 by a Democratic-led Congress and signed by Biden, allowed cities and states to invest $15 billion on public safety,[/b] he said.
Attorney General Merrick Garland called the data encouraging and touted law enforcement efforts to target gangs, illegal guns and other issues.
The FBIs report was in line with the findings of the nonpartisan Council on Criminal Justice, which found that homicides were down an average of 10% in a survey of 32 cities over the year before, though it found violent crime still remained higher than before the coronavirus pandemic in many cities.
[B]Homicides showed a steep 29% increase in 2020, the largest one-year jump since the FBI began keeping records. The rise defied easy explanation, though experts said possible contributors included the massive disruption of the pandemic, gun violence, worries about the economy and intense stress.[/b]
......
[/QUOTE]Thanks, Joe.
And, in case you missed it, any reference to "Pandemic era" or "pre Pandemic" data means "during Trump's Pandemic" and "under Trump even before Trump created Trump's Pandemic. ".
No, I would not recommend walking through any large city flashing cash. Although you would probably be less likely to get your head bashed in by a Trump flagpole or an American flagpole, your eyes gouged, fingers smashed, maimed and killed by doing that than if you passed through a violent mob of Trump-incited America-hating Repub MAGA Insurrectionist "ordinary tourists" visiting the Capitol Building gift shop while wearing a police uniform.
And are you another one of those "the economy is tanking" loons?
Seriously, are you guys the ones pollsters contact who not only insist Trump and the Repubs are "better at handling the economy than Biden and the Dems" but also come up with the bewildering, nonsensical, breath-takingly ill-informed lies that The USA Stock Market is Down This Year and that The Unemployment Rate is at or near a 50 Year High when the reality is the exact opposite? Lolol.
Trump's Fed Chairman Appointment is TRYING to tank Biden's roaring economy, has been trying to tank it for the past 3 years and is having a hell of a time failing to do it with all the Fed tools at their disposal. The most they have been able to accomplish in that goal is finally getting the Unemployment Rate to tick up from below 4% to 4. 1%. Success!
[B]Record-Breaking Accomplishments On Jobs And Unemployment Under Biden.
June 7, 2024[/B]
[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/richardmcgahey/2024/06/07/record-breaking-accomplishments-on-jobs-and-unemployment-under-biden/[/URL]
Old dogs and their tired old tricks and tropes!
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2927769]See, now short and sweet bursts of Repub MAGA lies like that are manageable. Thanks for keeping it at a Gish Trot instead of a Gish Gallop:
1. I have never had a user name on this site other than the one you see now.
2. The economy never tanked under either Obama-Biden or Biden-Harris. Both were astoundingly positive recoveries, expansions and jobs creation presidencies compared to the adjacent Repub administration.
[b]Meaning, if you want to cite historic economic tanking,[/b] that would be the [b]GW Bush[/b] economy and the [b]Donald J. Trump[/b] economy. Don't even bother looking for a Dem economy for that over the past 100 years.
3. [b]Crime is at decades' long lows under Biden[/b] after a couple of shocking upward spikes under Trump.[/QUOTE]
Yes, quite right!
I applaud your due diligence in your response, but can you really teach an old (Repub) dog, to get new tricks? Or new tropes for that matter?
The genuinely dire consequences of a Repub potus suffering from senility and dementia
This must be evidence of the "genuinely dire consequences" that Disney lady has every reason to worry about if Trump wins a 2nd term:
[URL]https://youtu.be/gA_3AIdmmrs?si=65AhoUHyn5J8UjFZ[/URL]
Only someone suffering from senility and dementia could have that much trouble simply articulating what he reads from his notes or on a teleprompter.
As always, there is no Biden counterpart of that or any kind of serious cognitive impairment that is routinely exhibited by Trump.
