General Reports

[QUOTE=Pointpanic]Everything you said is true. Thais and Viet girls are more expensive in HK or Macau than in Thailand or Vietnam One has to pay the shipping costs. SEA Joe is correct when he says that local Chinese men do not want to pay the shipping costs and do not really appreciate SE Asian girls.[/QUOTE]
Point Panic, Neuromancer, Wadman et al - thanks! I haven't looked at the Hong Kong thread for a week or so and just found all THIS!! Incredible! and I thought that all I was doing was replying Gren62 and giving a vanilla flavored write up about really - really - general stuff!
Hey HK Dog - what is the problem man?
I've read some of your past postings and hey - You like SE Asia Women - go for it. You don't like Chinese gals - that's fine also. Just please don't get on my case coz I ain't got nuthin' to do with you and never even refered to you before. OK?
Peace and Chill! OK?
SE Asia Joe

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]Point Panic, Neuromancer, Wadman et al - thanks! I haven't looked at the Hong Kong thread for a week or so and just found all THIS!! Incredible! and I thought that all I was doing was replying Gren62 and giving a vanilla flavored write up about really - really - general stuff!

Hey HK Dog - what is the problem man?

I've read some of your past postings and hey - You like SE Asia Women - go for it. You don't like Chinese gals - that's fine also. Just please don't get on my case coz I ain't got nuthin' to do with you and never even refered to you before. OK?
Peace and Chill! OK?

SE Asia Joe[/QUOTE]Lol, it's sort of funny how it's only those dudes who prefer the SE Asian/Wan Chai girls tend to get up in a tizzy when accused of "paying a premium". Seem to recall plenty of posts calling out "foolish Chinese mongers" who pay ridiculous sums of money for KTV and not getting much in return (hey, that sounds like me! ). But don't see anywhere near the defensive reactions to these accusations.

As a disclaimer, I haven't done a detailed study of past posts to count the accusations and defensive remarks. My above comment is merely a reflection of my un-scientific impressions.

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]Point Panic, Neuromancer, Wadman et al - thanks! I haven't looked at the Hong Kong thread for a week or so and just found all THIS!! Incredible! and I thought that all I was doing was replying Gren62 and giving a vanilla flavored write up about really - really - general stuff!

Hey HK Dog - what is the problem man?

I've read some of your past postings and hey - You like SE Asia Women - go for it. You don't like Chinese gals - that's fine also. Just please don't get on my case coz I ain't got nuthin' to do with you and never even refered to you before. OK?
Peace and Chill! OK?

SE Asia Joe[/QUOTE]The price for Flipper and other SE Asian p*ssy in Mong Kok is quite a bit lower isn't it? Seem to remember HKD300-500 or so. Ok, I have absolutely zero idea what these girls look like, but it sort of implies that the economic/shipping fee argument is not correct? Or maybe that the type of girls you would find in MK would be rejected upon application in their home country and that the earnings in HK is just slightly more than the shipping fee since the opportunity cost back home is essentially nil (hence the girl still makes more money from working in HK)?

Of course, you don't get the drinking, flirting, stolen kisses that you'll get from playing in Wan Chai. In the end, I'm thinking that Wan Chai is not so different from KTV. You pay a premium for the flirting and gamesmanship. Same game, different skin color.

Thoughts?

[QUOTE=Neuromancer]. Ok, I have absolutely zero idea what these girls look like, but it sort of implies that the economic/shipping fee argument is not correct?
Thoughts?[/QUOTE]


Those SE Asian girls working in MKK are not your typical freelancer in Wan Chai. I know a few of them on the HK side (Vietnam). They have HK ID cards from fake marriages to local men. Also some of them got involved in the assemblyline mass market scence since they owed the Triads some gambling debt.

An average working girl in Thai/Philipines would not usually be sucked into this sort of slave sex labor.

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]Point Panic, Neuromancer, Wadman et al - thanks! I haven't looked at the Hong Kong thread for a week or so and just found all THIS!! Incredible! and I thought that all I was doing was replying Gren62 and giving a vanilla flavored write up about really - really - general stuff!
Hey HK Dog - what is the problem man?
I've read some of your past postings and hey - You like SE Asia Women - go for it. You don't like Chinese gals - that's fine also. Just please don't get on my case coz I ain't got nuthin' to do with you and never even refered to you before. OK?
Peace and Chill! OK?
SE Asia Joe[/QUOTE]

I admit I got overdefensive in my first posting. But you have to understand that you initial posting COULD be read a different way than you intended.

And I never said I don't like Chinese chicks. I fuck them just as much as SE Asian. I just prefer SE Asian since they seem to be bred to fuck.

[QUOTE=Hk Dog]I admit I got overdefensive in my first posting. But you have to understand that you initial posting COULD be read a different way than you intended.

And I never said I don't like Chinese chicks. I fuck them just as much as SE Asian. I just prefer SE Asian since they seem to be bred to fuck.[/QUOTE]
OK - now that we've got THAT out of the way...

IMHO (and its only IMHO, HK dog - before you get all upset at me) and from chit chatting with quite a few and varied WG, KTV, Sauna, SW etc gals, the reason for the differing prices/modus operandi is simply a matter of preference and/or what the gal thinks is their best way to make money, according to their own temperament.

A 141 gal does it as they figure they can get multiple clients per day - and if they're good, they can even chalk up to as many as 12 or even 16 a day (think of those gals with guys lining up outside their door!). At say $400 @, she could make up to $6400/day or $160,000/month counting 5 red days. Wow!!, that's a lot!! A more realistic number would be say 6 a day - which still adds up to $2,400/day or $60,000/month. Less the rent and advertisement at approx $15,000, they can still clear $45,000/month.


The KTV gals - and the Wanchai Filipino/Thai/Vietnamese etc charges an average of say $1,200 per shot (and say, averages 1-1/2 client/day plus probably make a bit from Ladies drinks and/or the "drinks coupons" at the 'independent bars' of another $2 or 300, thus bringing their 'take home pay" to approximately $2,000@day/50,000@month.

But these gals only has to do the dirty a lot less frequently. Some gals i.e. the 141 gals - can do it multiple times using KY jelly, good HJ/BJ's etc, whilst others go Tong Tong Tong even once a day! And then there is the Alcohol tolerance abilities of the particular gal. Some can easily out-drink you and I - plus LOVE getting high, whilst others really suffer when drinking. And thus a non-drinker will go the 141 or Sauna way.

OK, sauna - a lot of these gals go the sauna way as they feel (not sure if correct or not!) that they have more of a choice as to whether they will only do Veggie/HJ/BJ or FS sauna - with no demands being made one way or the other - and according to what they want to do or not do that particlular day.

There are a myriad other reasons why a gal would go one way or the other - but let it suffice to say that most (of course not all, before anyone here jumps on me), prostitution - and the way one chooses to prostitue oneself - is strictly a matter of personal choice. There is hardly any more "Slave Gangers" and thus the choice of how to operate their own business is just that - their own choice. They go into contracts with their handlers with eyes at least NOT firmly shut, and they know what they are getting into BEFORE they sign or agree to their part of the bargain. And don't think that these als do not shop around for the best deal/term that suits them best. They DO!

From the above (again its only IMHO) there are as many different quality/type of gals in each category as there is Johns in the industry! It's got little to do with which particular kind of gal is superior to another. Each Gal is different - the same with each John.

So for us ISG'ers - go with what you want - the same as what these gals would do.
SE Asia Joe

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]OK - now that we've got THAT out of the way...
IMHO (and its only IMHO, HK dog - before you get all upset at me) and from chit chatting with quite a few and varied WG, KTV, Sauna, SW etc gals, the reason for the differing prices/modus operandi is simply a matter of preference and/or what the gal thinks is their best way to make money, according to their own temperament.

A 141 gal does it as they figure they can get multiple clients per day - and if they're good, they can even chalk up to as many as 12 or even 16 a day (think of those gals with guys lining up outside their door!). At say $400 @, she could make up to $6400/day or $160,000/month counting 5 red days. Wow!!, that's a lot!! A more realistic number would be say 6 a day - which still adds up to $2,400/day or $60,000/month. Less the rent and advertisement at approx $15,000, they can still clear $45,000/month.


The KTV gals - and the Wanchai Filipino/Thai/Vietnamese etc charges an average of say $1,200 per shot (and say, averages 1-1/2 client/day plus probably make a bit from Ladies drinks and/or the "drinks coupons" at the 'independent bars' of another $2 or 300, thus bringing their 'take home pay" to approximately $2,000@day/50,000@month.

But these gals only has to do the dirty a lot less frequently. Some gals i.e. the 141 gals - can do it multiple times using KY jelly, good HJ/BJ's etc, whilst others go Tong Tong Tong even once a day! And then there is the Alcohol tolerance abilities of the particular gal. Some can easily out-drink you and I - plus LOVE getting high, whilst others really suffer when drinking. And thus a non-drinker will go the 141 or Sauna way.

OK, sauna - a lot of these gals go the sauna way as they feel (not sure if correct or not!) that they have more of a choice as to whether they will only do Veggie/HJ/BJ or FS sauna - with no demands being made one way or the other - and according to what they want to do or not do that particlular day.

There are a myriad other reasons why a gal would go one way or the other - but let it suffice to say that most (of course not all, before anyone here jumps on me), prostitution - and the way one chooses to prostitue oneself - is strictly a matter of personal choice. There is hardly any more "Slave Gangers" and thus the choice of how to operate their own business is just that - their own choice. They go into contracts with their handlers with eyes at least NOT firmly shut, and they know what they are getting into BEFORE they sign or agree to their part of the bargain. And don't think that these als do not shop around for the best deal/term that suits them best. They DO!

From the above (again its only IMHO) there are as many different quality/type of gals in each category as there is Johns in the industry! It's got little to do with which particular kind of gal is superior to another. Each Gal is different - the same with each John.

So for us ISG'ers - go with what you want - the same as what these gals would do.
SE Asia Joe[/QUOTE]

very well done, SEAJ!
hope this opens the eyes to lots of people and keep on mongering with awareness as well as doing a sustainable mongering.
So much fashion to have everything sustainable nowadaythat also mongering has to be!
Probably those going bareback are "greens" as they do not use rubber and plastic, lol

Guys, arguing between Chinese and SE Asian girls is like arguing between gold and platinum. Let's be lucky we have such opportunities available to us whatever our tastes.

Question: every Mong Kok brothel I've been to for the past year doesn't have Flippers. Where in Mong Kok can I get a Flipper? Been a while since I had one. Thanks!

BTW, I tried to see Appuru again because I happened to be in the neighborhood. Again she was busy, and I figured, I'll come back another time. Did not try another door as no girls were milling about and most had the cages on their doors shut.

Have fun and stay safe,
Johnny Rocket

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe] There is hardly any more "Slave Gangers" and thus the choice of how to operate their own business is just that - their own choice. They go into contracts with their handlers with eyes at least NOT firmly shut, and they know what they are getting into BEFORE they sign or agree to their part of the bargain. And don't think that these als do not shop around for the best deal/term that suits them best. They DO!
[/QUOTE]

Yes, for the most part that is true but there still is a significant proportion where that is not the case. In fact in HK just recently there was a Filipina 'mamasan' jailed for 3yrs for bringing in girls to 'work' but telling them they are going to be working in restaurants etc etc.

I know of a Thai girl (about 5 yrs ago) that used to work in Nana Plaza and her friend told her to go work in Macau. She signed up (went in with eyes wide open) but then when she got there the terms of the contract changed (i,e what they promised to pay her per client). They took her passport and she had to work twice the number of men than she thought to make the same money her original contract told her.

I also knew a Chinese girl in a 141 in TST (massive titties and spoke English and Japanese) who had to work in HK since she owed debts to gangsters in her home town. When she made enough money (pretty quickly) and went back home the gangsters still wouldn't leave her and her family alone until she went back and worked in HK some more. I guess the triads don't want to lose a good producer.


So this stuff is still happenning right now.

[QUOTE=Hk Dog]Yes, for the most part that is true but there still is a significant proportion where that is not the case. In fact in HK just recently there was a Filipina 'mamasan' jailed for 3yrs for bringing in girls to 'work' but telling them they are going to be working in restaurants etc etc.

I know of a Thai girl (about 5 yrs ago) that used to work in Nana Plaza and her friend told her to go work in Macau. She signed up (went in with eyes wide open) but then when she got there the terms of the contract changed (i,e what they promised to pay her per client). They took her passport and she had to work twice the number of men than she thought to make the same money her original contract told her.

I also knew a Chinese girl in a 141 in TST (massive titties and spoke English and Japanese) who had to work in HK since she owed debts to gangsters in her home town. When she made enough money (pretty quickly) and went back home the gangsters still wouldn't leave her and her family alone until she went back and worked in HK some more. I guess the triads don't want to lose a good producer.


So this stuff is still happenning right now.[/QUOTE]

In Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, and Hong Kong I have met girls who told me they were tricked into working in the bars. They claim they were told they would be working in a restaurant and only found out what was expected afterwards. Of course it is possible they could be just saying that to make me feel sorry for them. And many of them do repeat visits, so we know they are not all being coerced.

Still I think some of the girls really did end up there under rather sinster circumstances. I think about the 18 year old I met this last trip. She did not tell me she had been tricked into coming, but it was obvious she was having a hard time with what she was doing working in Fenwicks.

I do often wonder about the Chinese girls that show up in all of these places. Compared to the filipinas, I thiink more of them are there under some sort of duress, although compared to the filipinas, they don't talk about it.

[QUOTE=Hk Dog]Yes, for the most part that is true but there still is a significant proportion where that is not the case.

So this stuff is still happenning right now.[/QUOTE]
Yes - like any business, there are also "bad" operators in prostitution. On the other hand, most well organized prostitution/triad/mafia gangs know that it is much easier to operate with willing participants. Their main motive in operating is profits and as such, they do go out of their way to avoid controversy.

In most areas of Asia, prostitution is pretty well "left alone" by the police and well meaning community groups as the challenges in tackling it is just too much - plus its pretty well perceived as being a victimless crime here. (probably unlike in the U.S. and/or other more developed parts of the world) What instead happens is just a bit of control to steer it to 'acceptable areas and acceptable practices.' These prostitution gangs knows to keep as low a profile as possible for not only will it keep the status quo with the LE's but also, it is good for business in that the Johns are re-assured that things are safe and that they are not willing participants to nefarious going ons with enslavement, coercion etc.

As far as stories goes - well.... there are as many 'stories' as there are gals wanting to have pity, extra monetary help/tips, making themselves feel better in that they're not "really doing this on their own volition," making the john feel they are special by sharing/confiding their worse fears (GFE??!!!) and/or making the john feel as if the gal is actually a decent gal forced into this and thus deserving of his sympathy/more money etc. etc.

Look-it, I ain't sayin' that there ain't no such thing as sex slavery etc - and probably there is hearing the 'stories' about gals in Eastern Europe, Africa, middle east etc etc - but one has to take it all with quite a big grain of salt and NOT become a sucker.

Monger safely and sensibly - and although I would doubt that YOU would come accross actual cases of "sex slavery" in this part of the world, I'm pretty sure that you would be able to know if it is really true or not. Just don't become a sucker to it and never, never get too drunk or too high to be rational when out mongering!
SE Asia Joe

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]As far as stories goes - well.... there are as many 'stories' as there are gals wanting to have pity, extra monetary help/tips, making themselves feel better in that they're not "really doing this on their own volition," making the john feel they are special by sharing/confiding their worse fears (GFE??!!!) and/or making the john feel as if the gal is actually a decent gal forced into this and thus deserving of his sympathy/more money etc. etc.

[/QUOTE]


I am a long time monger who has lost count of girls but it is easily a number over 1,000. I can tell a sob story from the moment they open their mouth.

The HK court case is true , lets just say I know insiders in that case.

The Thai girl asked nothing from me. She called me up the day after she arrived in Macau asking for advise on how to get her passport back but in the end she really had no power.

The Chinese girl only disclosed her info after I saw her a couple of times. She didn't ask anything of me and in fact I got a couple of nice emails from her in China when she eventually left her forced 2nd tour.


Go into any of the go-go's in Wan Chai (which I don't recommend) and I would say at least 25% of the girls were misled of what they would actually be doing. I know one girl who intentionally put on alot of weight so customers wouldn't take her out. When she first came she was a stunner. Of course the mamasan could not force her to go out with customers but they witheld many priveleges and deducted penalties from their salary when they didn't. So they really had no choice. In the end the only leverage she had to being sent back was her attractiveness.

[QUOTE=Hk Dog]I am a long time monger who has lost count of girls but it is easily a number over 1,000. I can tell a sob story from the moment they open their mouth.

The HK court case is true , lets just say I know insiders in that case.

The Thai girl asked nothing from me. She called me up the day after she arrived in Macau asking for advise on how to get her passport back but in the end she really had no power.

The Chinese girl only disclosed her info after I saw her a couple of times. She didn't ask anything of me and in fact I got a couple of nice emails from her in China when she eventually left her forced 2nd tour.


Go into any of the go-go's in Wan Chai (which I don't recommend) and I would say at least 25% of the girls were misled of what they would actually be doing. I know one girl who intentionally put on alot of weight so customers wouldn't take her out. When she first came she was a stunner. Of course the mamasan could not force her to go out with customers but they witheld many priveleges and deducted penalties from their salary when they didn't. So they really had no choice. In the end the only leverage she had to being sent back was her attractiveness.[/QUOTE]
3 or 4 out of over 1,000. Probably about right
SE Asia Joe

[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]3 or 4 out of over 1,000. Probably about right
SE Asia Joe[/QUOTE]


Mate, its alot more than 3 or 4, I don't want to bore you with the entire list.

My point is that it is alot more common than you think. I would put an estimate at around 3% (your estimate is around .4%)

[QUOTE=Hk Dog]Mate, its alot more than 3 or 4, I don't want to bore you with the entire list.

My point is that it is alot more common than you think. I would put an estimate at around 3% (your estimate is around .4%)[/QUOTE]


Seems to me that this discussion includes go-go girls and the girls working the disco in the same group. I do not think this is the case.

I used to spend lots of time in Hong Kong and most of the night cruising I did for mongering was in Wan Chai at the go-go bars. This was because I had customers from the USA, UK or Europe with me 99% of the time.

I would stay in Hong Kong for months at a time and I would have different customers there every week. The reason I would take them to the go-go bars is for safety reasons. I never had a problem at the go-go bars and never had to worry how the girls would treat the guy back at the hotel room or if they would try to drug them or steal from them.

One thing I did discover was that I would have one customer fancy a certain girl and take her out sometimes multiple times during one trip to Hong Kong. Then the next week after the customer left another customer would come and sometimes pick the same girl. Of course I would never say anything about a previous customer picking the same girl as it is all about the fantasy isn't it?
Well the interesting thing is that the customers would get different stories from the same girl. Seems the girls in the go-go bars were very good at figuring out what story the guy wanted to hear to get them to take them out. If the guy felt like he was rescuing her for even just one night because he liked the feeling of being her knight in shinning amour, even for one night, that is the story he heard. The next customer would hear that she has been to Hong Kong on multiple trips and likes her works there. That is why she does it. Good money and she likes sex. So the girls really are experts at feeling the guy out as to what story they want to hear. They are taught well and know their business very well. I know one girl who was a virgin when she signed up, so before she left the Philippines had a next door neighbor take her cherry so she would have some experience before she arrived in Hong Kong for her job. Lucky neighbor huh. Then when she got there she asked her roommates and co-workers to teach her how to give blow jobs properly.

Now I know that there are still girls that are lied to as there are independent agents in the Philippines who get these girls to sign up. Most tell the girls the truth or they know from friends who have been there working in the go-go bars what to expect. Some of the agents lie for sure, but from what I have experienced it is a very small number of girls who go to work in the go-go bars who do not know the truth about what their jobs is. Agents who lie to the girl and then send girls over who are trouble to the go-go bars or do not want to work will not be agents for very long. The go-go bars do not like the trouble.

As for the disco's, there are many girls in the disco's that are being held against their will by having their passports taken. I'm not sure how involved the triads are in this and from what I have seen I think it is mostly a Filipino operated organization. It is done quite unprofessionally if you ask me. There are also many girls in the discos there on their own or visiting relatives or friends in Hong Kong that are working the go-go bars and not there against their will. I'm not sure of the ratio to forced girl in the disco, but I do know it was rapidly increasing when I was last there. I would say about 40% of the disco girl were working girls under contract. The number of those being forced was probably about 20% of that 40%. So I guess I am saying about 8% of the girls in the disco's are working there because someone is forcing them. Maybe more

Just my observation and I could be way off or it could have changed since I was last there.

FF