Avoiding Freelancer Scams and Extortions

i wrote and posted this advise on avoiding freelancer scam and extortion on another forum. i wrote it specifically with cebu in mind.

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for those with extensive experience with street girls in manila, cebu or elsewhere, what do you think of these countermeasures to reduce the odds of a monger being victim of extortion?

the modus operandi of these scammers appears to be for the girl to go in your room and then calling or texting an accomplice (including police) to show up to extort you for having sex with a minor or for being in a room with a minor (which is illegal). or after sex with a girl clearly of age, cops knock on your door hours later to charge you with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] per her complaint.

granted, if you're in angeles city, there's never a need to pickup a freelancer. but elsewhere in the philippines, particularly outside manila, picking up freelancers on the streets, mall or from a dating website is a mongering essential.

these recommendations are ways to detect, deter and thwart an extortionist.

1. question her age.

ids aren't worth shit in the philippines. so you have to question her aggressively. ask her age and year of birth. even if she gives the "right" answer, play dumb and say "hey, that makes you 20, not 18". if she even considers your answer for a second, she's lying.

or tell her you can definitively reveal her age from closely inspecting a certain body part like her palm, fingers, lips, teeth, etc. then do an "inspection" and insist she's a minor and gauge her reaction. if she thinks you're a rich educated foreigner, she might actually believe you have such abilities ("in america, police can tell your age by the color and shade of your eyes").

other strategies include asking for her zodiac or star sign. or quiz the age and year of birth of her siblings and, after she gives a long list (filipinos usually have large families) have her repeat it to see if her story change.

you can even go perv by saying "you're cute but do you know someone who's 16 or 17?" and see if she suddenly admits to being ****.

when someone's lying, they tend to trip up, stumble, refuse to answer or suddenly go quiet, especially someone young, nervous and pressured by cohorts to scam. truthful people usually go on the offense when challenged. this isn't a foolproof lie detector but it's far better than relying on her merely claiming her age.

2. no phones.

keeping her from her cellphone is probably the most important tip here for it deprives her the ability to summon accomplices.

ask her to leave her phone with someone. if she understandably cannot, tell her it must remain off and it goes into the room safe until the service is over. if she needs to call, tell her she can always use your phone.

if she asks why you're requiring this, tell her you don't want her distracted while paying for her time.

most scammers will not agree to go with you if her modus operandi gets disrupted and when she's left in-field without assistance.

if she promised to keep her phone off but turns it on later, it's your sign to bolt.

3. give misinformation and misdirection.

there's no reason to tell the girl any truthful information about you. all she should be concerned about is getting paid doing what she agreed to do for an agreed duration.

naming your hotel during initial negotiations allows her to inform cohorts where she'd be (where they can ambush you). if she asks where you're staying, name a random hotel but change your mind in the taxi. there's no reason she'd object to a change of venue if she's legit.

of course, never give your real name either or even how long you've been in town.

4. use a throwaway room.

this may be overkill and only for particularly paranoid people like me who don't mind the slightly added expense.

in any philippine city, there are cheap hostels which they call "pension houses". many will charge hourly and won't ask for i'd.

these accommodations allow you to make a quick getaway if you suspect a set up brewing. they also prevent the scammers or police the ability to find you later. if you use your actual hotel, hotel staff can reveal your real name and passport number to police and philippine immigration can stop you at the airport from exiting.

5. take her far away.

scammers rely on nearby cohorts since it's impossible for a girl to extort you alone. if they're far away, it becomes time and expense consuming for her accomplices to come to her rescue. or you can be far enough so that the cop she's working with has no jurisdiction.

for example, if you pick up a streetgirl in central cebu, tell her your room is in lapu-lapu. by taxi, it is 45 minutes away, enough to deter a scammer from going with you. as you pull away with her in a taxi, look behind to see if you're being followed.

a girl shouldn't object going reasonable long distances if you give return taxi money (upfront, if necessary).

6. lowball her offer.

if a girl wants to set you up, she will likely be desperate to go to your room immediately. so give a ridiculous lowball offer. if she asks for p800 and she accepts an immediate counteroffer of p250 without resisting, she could be a scammer.

7. check if she's stalling.

i want to thank someone on this forum for this one.

once both of you are in the room, notice if she is stalling. there's no reason why she wouldn't want to get down to business immediately, especially if you've negotiated a short-time session. this isn't a bargirl who've already been paid upfront and may stall hoping you'd fall asleep without fucking her.

if the freelancer is stalling, you boot her. not just because she may be waiting for cohorts to arrive but also because she's a non-performer.

8. keep an audio recording.

this tip is also for paranoid people like me.

most smartphones can make voice recordings. you can secretly audio record your sessions or just at the end of a session when she's about to leave the room. without her knowing she's recorded, get her to to say that everything is ok and that she'll see you again soon. this proves [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] did not occur in the room.

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granted, all these recommendations could be overkill. but if you do most of them, it should drastically reduce your odds of being entangled in a police extortion. it's also worth advising you to question the girl in a friendly, light conversational tone or a legitimate provider might get creeped out and refuse to go with you.

[quote=furryfriend;1237747]most smartphones can make voice recordings. you can secretly audio record your sessions or just at the end of a session when she's about to leave the room. without her knowing she's recorded, get her to to say that everything is ok and that she'll see you again soon. this proves [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] did not occur in the room.[/quote]although quite a paranoid picture you paint, these are sound advice.

once i had a girl that started to act a bit unbalanced, but i told her "hey, look here at your text message. is says that you want to fuck me and do not expect any money, and now you are freaking out for not getting a pair of 1500 php jeans", and she eventually calmed down. i did of course give her money, but any ideas this flaky girl had about crying [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], vanished as she realized she sent me sexy pictures and text messages, indicating she is far from the saint she likes her lola to believe her to be.

apart from this, i never had any problems of this kind. did anyone here have to pay their way out from a situation like this? is this a real problem for people or primarily an imaginary monster of men outside their comfort zone? do not get me wrong, i appreciate general warnings a lot but it would be interesting to know how many of the mongers here that actually was in a situation where he was set up for extortion.

looking at ff:s list, i can conclude i am not as paranoid. nowadays not so many of my girls are random pick ups like this, but when they are, i most often just go to a st hotel i choose as i go. for more reasons than security, the no phone-policy is a must. first of all i am paying for her company so the others will have to wait, and unless no one is following the taxi / car / bike, there is no way they can pull off a set up if the do not know where you are. obviously this advice is crucial. i ask the (unfamiliar) girl "is there anyone you need to text now? once we get a taxi i will ask you to not use your phone at all during our hour together".

sometimes i film the girl saying "yes i will try to take it up my ass for 500 php extra", and then, if i am in the hotel, i upload the clip and tell her that "this masturbation material will be safe on the encrypted and private server even if someone steals my camera". the movie of her actually taking the hammer up her bum is naturally even better to have, so i normally film the whole session (don't ask just tell her you will do it, and then do it).

gang bangs will also make a set up harder. you can just point at your friends and say that it was someone else that fucked her, and you where just wanking in the corner. but maybe harder to find good friends than to avoid extortion setups.

ff:s post relates to casual freelancers, and at the end of the day it is safest to go with "girlfriends" (of bar-girls or hoes that friends refer to you of course). keep the girlfriends hungry for a next session (future profits) and sustain the image of how busy you are "with work", and you will have few limitations as of how many of these gf:s you can have going simultaneously. one of my girlfriends "just swallowed her pride" and asked her for some help over the chat. the first time she ever asked me actually, but for sure not the last time she swallowed something that made her a bit uncomfortable. .

barba

[QUOTE=Barba;1237764]FF:s post relates to casual freelancers, and at the end of the day it is safest to go with "girlfriends" (of bar-girls or hoes that friends refer to you of course).[/QUOTE]Of course, going with known girlfriends is the best option. But when mongers are in town, they don't have time to know really know the girl. Picking up freelancers on the streets, in the malls or online is a mongering essential outside Angeles City and Manila.

There are lots of extortion stories in Angeles City, a few in Manila, and fewer still elsewhere. Even if the risks are comparatively low in Cebu, I don't want to risk even the miniscule chance of spending time in a Philippine prison waiting months for their super slow justice system to work. Besides, these countermeasures don't cost anything (except the one about using a throwaway room).

Not that I want the girl to extort me, but if she does, I'll just pay a few thousand pesos if I'm really that unlucky. But if the cops are involved, that can get downright terrifying.

I think it's worth impressing upon newbies to take at least some countermeasures. Lots of guys think with their small heads, which is a great way to get into trouble in the Philippines.

I like your advice on telling the girl, before getting into a taxi, to make any final calls or texts now.

[QUOTE=Barba;1237764]I never had any problems of this kind. Did anyone here have to pay their way out from a situation like this? Is this a real problem for people or primarily an imaginary monster of men outside their comfort zone? Do not get me wrong, I appreciate general warnings a lot but it would be interesting to know how many of the mongers here that actually was in a situation where he was set up for extortion.[/QUOTE]Exactly and well said, especially en relation to Cebu. IMHO its an urban myth except when a high profile resident is targeted as in the famous hotel setup a couple of years ago and discussed ad nauseam on the local expat forum. The police in that case are currently being sued.

I advise all who are concerned about this to stay safely at home and spend their money whacking off to girls on web cam chat sites.

[quote=david_33; 1237957]exactly and well said, especially en relation to cebu. imho its an urban myth except when a high profile resident is targeted as in the famous hotel setup a couple of years ago and discussed ad nauseam on the local expat forum. the police in that case are currently being sued.

i advise all who are concerned about this to stay safely at home and spend their money whacking off to girls on web cam chat sites.[/quote]i agree with this wholeheartedly. mongering is for the brave. there are certain risk involved with it be it be diseases or victim of a scam. there are no real guidelines to avoid this. in spite of your best efforts you can be a victim.

most common is **** threat. generally you are safe if you pick up from a bar. there are plenty of freelancer girls in phi and scammers are very few. otherwise there would have been hundreds of foreigners in jails accused of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], ****, sexual violence etc. it is not happening. just go about your business taking normal care. if you are afraid stay home like david said.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1237918]There are lots of extortion stories in Angeles City[/QUOTE]OK. I did not know extortion was common in Angeles. I was 25+ times in Philippines and not once in Angeles, so I know nothing about the risks or scene up there. In my world, where I go, I find the risk to be low. But as you suggest this has little bearing for someone that is not walking in my footsteps. Not arguing with you (before or now) I do want to mention for all these newbies that supposedly are lurking here, motivating us opinionated pervs to invest hours and hours of written wisdom in this site, that generalizing risks can be a risky matter. One might end up with an all to pessimistic view of mankind and the world, in turn risking to miss all the fun and die of heart attack from over consuming sugar and fat to cure the boredom and self contempt over not grabbing the few moments of joy life offers, during our short visit here.

One could also argue that investing to much effort in risk reduction, might in turn reduce the emotional bonding a female will be inclined to indulge in. Even a short time freelancer needs warmth and affection to perform at her best. So maybe it is actually an issue of weighing different risks against each other. One perhaps actually trade, instead of eliminate risk. The risk of finding oneself in the pound me in the ass penitentiary for failing to haul up that wad of 20 PHP bills repeatedly over the last hour, against the risk of reducing the love making to a distrustful and cynical act of pushing one piece of meat into another piece of meat. We have all been there and know what a waste of sperm this always feels like about 2 sec after we fired away on that sad hoe.

Barba is a naive trustful romantic. A risk taker perhaps, but with a huge portion of luck it seems. And if this luck one day ends, this will not make anyone else more (or less) right. It was part of the cost calculation. No one is right. Just different strategies. I previously wrote that girlfriends are safest. Of course they are but newbies, do not get me wrong. This is NOT the motivator. Girlfriends are simply the most fun and this governs my choice to 100. They trust you and give you so much more than a random pick up.

All the best.

B.

i have started noticing furryfrends posts on the philippines board over the last year or so and i am yet to see one positive post about the phillipines. he mentioned he has been to ac couple of times but now prefers thailand. that's cool, and i am all for different opinions and angles that's what forums are there for but i wish he comes out and says what happened to him while in phils. some posts have descent advice granted that but fuck me arguing every positive thing that philippines has to offer, every positive aspect of mongering there even official stats sounds like well paranoia or sour grapes. as simmon said mongoing is for the brave if you are not prepared to take calculated risks then stay home and wack off in front of your screen.

furryfrend please stop spreading crap about ac, blackmail is not common especially not for the visiting punter. in a year there is over million barfines there and at most there is 2-3 cases. for 2011 there were 2 that i am aware of one of a girl that accused a punter (girl was from geckos bar) which was sorted out quickly but we never got to hear what fully happened. from a girl that works in geckos i was told that the girl in question had scars when she went to the cops and the next day in the bar. again this could be just them trying to save their reputation but maybe there was more to it? all we got was one side of the story.

the other was a bar manger that was accused of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] a non bar girl but the whole town relied behind him and he fought the charges and as far as i know they were dismissed. this was a case where the girl tried to save face in front of her family saying that he forced her after the family found out she is no longer virgin. things happen but odds are about 1 in a million in ac and far less in other places.

i don't think setting someone up is as easy and simple as people think it is. we are talking freelancers that have to fuck everyday in order to pay bills, feed their family and survive on day to day basis. for a girl to work out the logistics of a set up is almost impossible. if they operate as a gang then they are more likely to set up someone they know has money easily accessible and has far more to lose then a 2 week tourist. therefore targeting an expat or a local makes far more sense.

i can understand foreign tourists being targeted for small crimes like pickpocketing and so on but this is lol way out there. i am not sure if it was one of ganges or ge's posts that described the western culture as culture of fear, furryfrend is a text book example i guess.

furryfrend, relax, take a chill pill and get laid.

[QUOTE=Jorian;1238034]I think as long as they agree to it before hand, it is a good insurance. As I read these boards, runners has becoming a problem in AC & Cebu, especially the higher-end BFs. Some people have said they experienced no runners 5 years ago at Fields, but when they visited recently, almost every other BF is a runner. Sometimes it depends on which city you are P4P and your personal experience and if they like you or not. But I think a deal is a deal, if the girl don't like you, why try to rip them off with lies? Imagine paying LT for ST prices every other time, I'd be pissed-off too, I'd might as well spend it on ST model quality girls@Bangkok. The payment system in AC & Cebu encourages this, you are basically ALL-IN, so you really have no leverage except for that P200-500 tip. Girls are opportunists (the hot ones especially) and they know they can get another ST or LT instead of waiting for that meager tip in the morning. So if the girl have plans to run or have issues with the phone lock, THEY CAN SAY NO to your BF and run on another customer, as simple as that. We are just holding them to the agreement and nobody would be talking about this if they kept their end of the deal. So keeping their phone is a VERY GOOD preemptive step. It is a fair game because its the runners that has escalated this. Perhaps after if you become a regular or get good vibes, it becomes unnecessary. I mean what do they really need the phone for? I let my girl use my tablet if they are bored or watch TV. Some have argued you are enslaving them and preventing them from emergency calls. That is not true, what you are really doing is taking all the distraction and incentives for them to leave early and allow them to CONCENTRATE on the time they spend with you. And realistically, what kind of emergency are they going to get at 2 am that police can't handle? What about the times if her cell phone died or in the loud disco / bar where nobody can hear the phone ringing? It is a red-herring. If a family member can reach her cell, they sure can call the cops. Almost 99. 99% of the time, they are texting to / from mama-san or friends and making up excuse to leave early. More often, it is their BF or familiar customers who want to take your (paid) time away. For those who feel bad about keeping their phone, than just don't do it, maybe if enough runners happened to you, you'd have 2nd thoughts too.[/QUOTE]The girls are there to earn money selling their bodies. In fact they are forced to agree to your requests in other words coerced by you or mamasan or bar. The barfine allows you to take her out of the bar or better term is " EWR " means early work release. The contract if you believe you have a contract is explicitely refers to you taking her out of her job. There is no contract for her to stay with you or have sex with you or even have dinner with you. These are all assumed only. It is illegal for the bars to strictly tell the girl her duties if she is barfined.

So it is illegal for you to take her phone away and put restrictions on her freedom strictly speaking. You are getting away with this means only one thing. You are forcing your wills on these girls and taking advantage of their poverty and need to support family, child or whatever.

We mongers are one of many they see as boyfriends for the night. There is no intelligent conversation or comradeship. The girls are easily bored. So let them chat away, text away if they want in between the time you need her attention.

Philippine set up is not good in case of emergency like in advanced countries. In western countries if you call 911 everything is taken care of without even 1cent being asked. In Phi it is the family and friends are the first line of defence. Your thinking of calling police to handle emergencies do not wirk in Phi. As we all know emergencies can occur any given time.

So be respectfull of the girls freedom.

[QUOTE=Sammon;1238384]The girls are there to earn money selling their bodies. In fact they are forced to agree to your requests in other words coerced by you or mamasan or bar. The barfine allows you to take her out of the bar or better term is " EWR " means early work release. The contract if you believe you have a contract is explicitely refers to you taking her out of her job. There is no contract for her to stay with you or have sex with you or even have dinner with you. These are all assumed only. It is illegal for the bars to strictly tell the girl her duties if she is barfined. So it is illegal for you to take her phone away and put restrictions on her freedom strictly speaking. You are getting away with this means only one thing. You are forcing your wills on these girls and taking advantage of their poverty and need to support family, child or whatever.[/QUOTE]What you are doing with her is illegal too, no matter if you call it "EWR" "GRO". Prostitution is illegal in Thailand and PI. You admit they are whoring themselves out and at same time talked about the legality and technicality of it. To stop yourself of being a hypocrite, you should turn yourself in immediately after sex. Unless you are so deluded to actually think it had nothing to do with the money exchanged earlier? IF so, then why not after you paid her, tell her that she is not forced to have sex with you and in fact, she can go right on home if she wants. In any case, prostitution is the oldest profession in the world and 1000 years from now, it will be same "pay-for-sex" game no matter how Mr. Goody-Two Shoes tries to twist this definition.

[QUOTE=Sammon;1238384]We mongers are one of many they see as boyfriends for the night. There is no intelligent conversation or comradeship. The girls are easily bored. So let them chat away, text away if they want in between the time you need her attention.[/QUOTE]No, if you pay ST, you are one of her many boyfriends for the night. When you pay LT (as agreed upon beforehand) she is YOUR only boyfriend for the night. Its a given, accepted and its been that way for the longest time that is why there is a price differentiation. The issue here isn't about chatting or boredom etc, the point is they are using the phone as means to skip out on their verbal agreement. Maybe you like paying LT barfines for ST prices. Maybe you like girls that doesn't get BF'ed much. Maybe you have so much money that it doesn't matter what they do, whatever floats your boat is your every right. But don't pretend to be on a higher ground than rest of us when you are swimming in the same shit of puddle.

[QUOTE=Sammon;1238384]Philippine set up is not good in case of emergency like in advanced countries. In western countries if you call 911 everything is taken care of without even 1cent being asked. In Phi it is the family and friends are the first line of defence. Your thinking of calling police to handle emergencies do not wirk in Phi. As we all know emergencies can occur any given time.[/QUOTE]Since you care so much about the well being of family / friends you've never met, why not BF all of them, and send them home to their family & friends since they can't miss that emergency call when they are the stage dancing or out about dancing in clubs where they can't even hear you let alone their ringing phone for hours. Again, sounds like to me you are trying to Mr. Goody Two-shoes. On one hand we are all using them for "Cash for sex", on the other hand, trying to have the higher moral ground when in fact, ALL of these girls are there because are PAYING THEM no matter how perverse your definition of 'freedom' is. In fact, to most evangelists, this is called "sex-exploitation" whether you decide to let them have the phone or not!

Finally, nobody is forcing anything on the girl. It is explicitly asked prior if she would mind keeping her phone in the safe. Most girls won't have issues with it and if they do, THEY shouldn't go with you and we have a choice not to go with them. And if they really want to leave, they can leave, but we did all we can to curtail their negative behavior. There is a point for the bars having TWO rates: ST / LT. Just as the bars have rates for LD and and DLD (Single vs Double lady's drink). Imagine if they start charging you for Double-price drinks every time you ask for LD. Although maybe few dollars isn't much to you, but most of us don't like to be scammed this way. Do you get the drift? Its about getting what you paid for. And mostly likely, judging by your tone, you aren't bothered by this either. And if so, just ring on that bell a few times if you really feel sorry for them and afraid they are being taken advantage of. If girls don't deceive or cheat, nobody would be discussing this here. This is about being scammed and it becoming more and more prevalent. Bar owners / girls aren't in this for charity, they are going to do everything they can to get as much $$$ as they can with every angle they can exploit. I have no issues if they come and say ST / LT SAME price and its up to the girl whether she wants to stay the night. At least I know what I'm in for. On the other hand, nobody appreciates paying LT for ST prices, hence the countermeasures.

As the person who wrote the opening post to this thread (voted POST OF DISTINCTION by Senior Members) , I should say that cases of extortion and scams are often exaggerated in the Philippines, especially outside Manila and Angeles City. In Cebu, these kinds of scams are rare. So it's not worth getting paranoid and certainly not worth avoiding the country.

Nevertheless, even if it's rare, certain dodgy situations obviously merit the exercise of greater caution. When on vacation, it's easy to let your guard down. This is a dangerous thing to do in a third-world country like the Philippines. If you're unlucky enough to become entangled with their legal system, you're pretty much fucked.

Most of the recommended actions on the opening post do not require you to spend money. So you have nothing to lose by employing some of the suggested countermeasures for certain higher-risk activities. Telling a monger "if you can't take a risk, go home" is not a helpful suggestion. Even in the safest cities, one should practice precautions from being a victim of crime.

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I also came across an interesting video today on how to deal with corrupt Philippine cops:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNaATBWztcU&feature=related[/url]

He makes the following points:

- Always pay the first cop who extorts you. If you refuse and he brings you back to the police station, more cops will become involved and the amount you'd need to pay will increase.

- Corruption also works in your favor. If you've done something illegal, it allows you to get off without spending months in detention. If you don't think you haven't done anything unlawful there, think again. Prostitution and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] is illegal. Just by taking a girl out of the bar for an evening of sex is technically an unlawful act.

- Don't call your country's embassy if you've been charged with a crime. If the cops know your embassy is monitoring your situation, the cops will become less likely to accept a bribe for letting you out.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1258417](voted POST OF DISTINCTION by Senior Members)[/QUOTE]Two, but many more thought that is was another of your BS posts. Count them up. As a matter of fact it was voted POST OF PARANOID DRIVEL by myself.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1258417]I also came across an interesting video today on how to deal with corrupt Philippine cops:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNaATBWztcU&feature=related[/url]

He makes the following points:

- Always pay the first cop who extorts you. If you refuse and he brings you back to the police station, more cops will become involved and the amount you'd need to pay will increase.

- Corruption also works in your favor. If you've done something illegal, it allows you to get off without spending months in detention. If you don't think you haven't done anything unlawful there, think again. Prostitution and [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] is illegal. Just by taking a girl out of the bar for an evening of sex is technically an unlawful act.

- Don't call your country's embassy if you've been charged with a crime. If the cops know your embassy is monitoring your situation, the cops will become less likely to accept a bribe for letting you out.[/QUOTE]Thanks for posting this. Sitting back here in OZ I can see that this can work. Passing a payment to a policemen is just so unnatural for me but maybe I will have to learn if I am to extend my time in Phils.

Ditto for not calling the embassy. I wonder at what point 3, 5.10 days, it might be worth calling them if not making any luck by myself. I'm not sure that I'd be tough enough on my won after 21 days in a Phils police station watchhouse.

I'll certainly take up the 200 peso note with my I'd strategy in the meantime.

AJ

[QUOTE=Aussie Jo;1259177]Ditto for not calling the embassy. I wonder at what point 3, 5.10 days, it might be worth calling them if not making any luck by myself. I'm not sure that I'd be tough enough on my won after 21 days in a Phils police station watchhouse.[/QUOTE]I have a feeling that by day 3, if you cannot bribe your way out, then you're stuck. At that point, you can contact your embassy.

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I'm going to share a personal anti-corruption countermeasure.

I always carry a few 1000 won banknotes (the currency of South Korea). Each banknote looks impressive. But 1000 wons is only equivalent to 35 pesos.

Click here to see how a 1000 won banknote look like:

[url]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5271/5831872744_008058af0e.jpg[/url]

I have 12 such banknotes. If extorted by cops, immigration officers or some random Filipino, I can offer a few thousand wons and make a quick getaway.

Warning: as Koreans are becoming more prevalent in the Philippines, more and more Filipinos may know the true value of wons. It may be worth switching to another country's banknotes printed in high denomination (but low worth). The Vietnamese dong may be a good candidate. US$1 = 20, 000 dongs.

I'm more likely to get away with passing wons because I'm Chinese-American. They probably can't tell a Chinese from a Korean. But if you're some white guy, your extorter may question why you have South Korean wons. So prepare some phony story about how you were visiting South Korea before coming to the Philippines.

Well, As a guy from third world country, I was born into corruption and much worse than PH. I agree with furryFriend the best way to deal with any situation is to meet the first guy itself and not take it upwards, the more people get involved the worse it will become for you. Even if you are right. Move on and pay up.

You have to understand the reverse hierarchy in corrupt countries. The more corrupt you are the higher the position you will have. Its simple. The higher you go up fighting your case, the more psycopaths you will meet on your way. If there was a single good guy on top. The corruption would have been routed ages ago. The police or officials you will meet are often newbies and learning the game at low level. So better smile, take them to corner and pay up.

Some tips.

1. Smile a lot and agree with him a lot, give respect, admit your mistake even if you are right. Psychologically, you have to make him feel important 'because he is been bossed around by his superior all day.

2. Admit your mistake, say sorry, say it will never happen again, you are new to PH, you love PH etc etc.

3. Never ever pay him infront of his superiors or anyone around. Always, take him into a dark corner and pay up. But it should not sound like you are paying a bribe. Say something softer. Like you work too long sir. Its for holiday, an early x'mas gift. The lower level guys have not yet lost their souls, they still have some consciousness in their hearts.

In my experience, corruption is everywhere, in developed countries its not in your face, they call it "lobbying" and in other ways you pay up in higher taxes & lawyer fees etc. Crime to Crime. You will actually pay less in PH than back home.) and you will be out lot sooner without any hassle. Trust me on this. More often than not. 90% of the time. Corruption works in your favor, IF ONLY YOU KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH IT.

P. S I'm not endorsing corruption. We all know its bad but you have to ask yourself. Whats better for you and why you are here. To prove honesty is the best policy, sticking with principles. In that case, you should not have come on a mongering visa but on a missionary visa to save the people from satan but wait we already have a guy doing that for 2000 yrs and look where it got PH. We should live people to make their own choices and not impose our value on them. As you guys say in the west. When in Rome.

[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1259303][SNIP]I'm more likely to get away with passing wons because I'm Chinese-American. They probably can't tell a Chinese from a Korean.[/QUOTE]Umm no offense but alot of filipinos and filipinas can CLEARLY tell the difference between a person of Korean or Chinese descent. They have a little bit harder time (I do as well) if the person is of mixed race such as Korean or Chinese father and filipina mother.

Anyone having any scam issues at present?

Of the Cebu ladies I've met on dating sites there is one lady hat concerns me. She works in an internet cafe and when we do webcam s=chat there is a community of 2-3 girls chatting and sharing stories with the chats ie they will check translations and replies with each other."Wow. This guy said he wants to go here, anyone know where that is?" Just seems strange to be sharing her info like that.

I know it is a numbers game, for the number of people that they, the number whom promise to meet etc, how do they know I'm genuine as well.

This lady is still quite pretty and tidy body. 21 ish.

I'm still up for meeting her just to see that tight body up close but will employ the standard MO:

Lock valuables away in the hotel room.

Meet in a neutral place (Ayala or SM)

Talk for too long and test her patience.

Enjoy myself.

Really looking forward to getting back there.

BD

[QUOTE=BrainDrain; 1317728][SNIP]but will employ the standard MO:

Talk for too long and test her patience.[/QUOTE]Well if you meet a filipina and talk about yourself, she will think you are maldito. She might text her friends under the table while looking directly at you, but really her mind is somewhere else. No need to look at her phone because she memorized her keypad.

Generally speaking filipinas have ALOT of patience. In fact most people in the Philippines have patience in excess. I don't think you have ever been inside a Pag-Ibig, Veco, NBI or DFA office.

When you walk in you are handed a priority number (example- number 582 but they are currently serving number 195). No one complains, no one screams, no one gets upset at the lack of customer service and a potential 6 hour wait to talk to someone. Acceptance is the name of the game and the guards have guns and everyone learned a long time ago it's futile to complain. After all the guy sitting next to you will have his number posted soon, while you will have a 4 hour wait only to realize you will not be served. The guard tells everyone at 5pm to leave and come back the following day. You ask the guard if you can have a low priority number for the next day. He tells you it's not fair, just line up at 3am with everyone else. A 6hour wait before the office even opens, now that's patience.

If you think a filipina will lose patience sitting and talking to a chatmate for an hour or two after you bought her a meal or drink, think again. Of course YMMV.

[QUOTE=Stroker Ace88; 1318232]Well if you meet a filipina and talk about yourself, she will think you are maldito. She might text her friends under the table while looking directly at you, but really her mind is somewhere else. No need to look at her phone because she memorized her keypad.

Generally speaking filipinas have ALOT of patience. In fact most people in the Philippines have patience in excess. I don't think you have ever been inside a Pag-Ibig, Veco, NBI or DFA office.[/QUOTE]Thanks for that feedback. You are right, I have no idea on that level of patience. I was thinking that if a scam was going down they would be trying to move it along.

So far, I've been Ok, just met honest Pinay. Maybe this trip I might meet a scammer.

[quote=mc don;1238281]as simmon said mongoing is for the brave if you are not prepared to take calculated risks then stay home and wack off in front of your screen.[/quote]i assume you meant mongering, not mongoing, whatever that is.

mongering is for the horny, but it does not take any bravery to get a cbj from an upscale safe well reviewed sp in canada. otoh, there is coming to the philippine islands to bang ignorant bar girls in the ass without a condom. that takes bravery, or should i say a love of wild adventure, a don't care attitude, foolishness or a death wish?

[quote=mc don;1238281]furryfrend please stop spreading crap about ac, blackmail is not common especially not for the visiting punter. in a year there is over million barfines there and at most there is 2-3 cases. for 2011 there were 2 that i am aware of one of a girl that accused a punter (girl was from geckos bar) which was sorted out quickly but we never got to hear what fully happened. from a girl that works in geckos i was told that the girl in question had scars when she went to the cops and the next day in the bar. again this could be just them trying to save their reputation but maybe there was more to it? all we got was one side of the story.[/quote]unless you are omnipresent, you can't say how many cases occur, only those that you are aware of. there may be far more that you never hear about that are kept quiet.

there was a recent report of three such incidents in the angeles city thread. following are a number of other reports of similar scams in the pi over the years, which may just be the tip of the iceburg as to the actual numbers occurring there:

[url]http://www.sexwork.com/philippines/rapebribe.html[/url]

[url]http://www.sexwork.com/philippines/contents.html[/url]

guys,

i am visitng phil in a few weeks time. i will cut short the details about the passion and messages exchange with this lady but believe me its very real to me. i met this gal online on cb. she is less than half my age. we sweet talked each other a bit once or twice on chat without webcam and she agreed to meet me and maybe travel with me (not sure what she had in mind but she said her aunt is like her local guardian and she is quiet liberal about it). the idea is that we might get married. then her aunt came online one day on webcam to see me. she said she was going to play chaperone on the trip and i could only kiss her and nothing more. her demeanour is quiet seductive which i fell for instantly. not like she tried to seduce me, but very soon she had to excuse herself and attend to work for half an hour, and i just fell head over heels as i watched her talk and laugh repeatedly to a male colleague at her desk on webcam all this while. after a little bit of chatting when she got free again, i complimented her on being so sexy and how i was falling in love with her and how i would marry her instead. before we knew it we were in a passionate and dirty chat with each other. at this stage, i was so driven by a long time erotic fantasy that i immediately mentioned the fantasy about me living with both women, one married legally the other secretly. now she says she would really love to marry me but will respect her niece and not hurt her. she then actually came eagerly on webcam the same night in a surprise to pop this question (if i would forget then niece and marry her instead) and we got dirty on cam too. i refused and explained to her why i wanted both and how important it was to my fantasies dreams and happiness. she then agreed to have me as a secret husband while i get to marry her niece.

we've now agreed to go sight seeing for a few days with her daughter (she is a single mom in her 30s) and niece so i can get to know them when i am there. initially she said book two rooms one for them and one for me and i could only steal her love secretly when the niece was baby sitting her daughter. we chatted scenarious of stealing each others love without the niece knowing about it, while she acted like a chaperone, quiet like a victorian era erotica novel. after a weeks chatting and exchanging personal mails, she now concedes, the niece can sleep with me at night. over the phone, although she is very jealous. because the niece loves me kinda and "we are going to be married next year anyways". i had asked her a few times on mail (in passion filled exchanges about our love triangle) if i could pop the niece's cherry but she never replied to it in writing on mail or chat. we see each other on webcam maybe thrice a week for 3 to 4 hours at a time exchanging passionate love notes with each other (and my jhonny is upright all the 4 hours!). i gaze at her as she goes about her office work and we are so passionate about each other, she is going to fly down to meet me when i land in mnl secretly for a few days to steal my love first. she literaaly begged me because i refused at first. (i wanted to monger in angeles, for some variety before hitting her). she says she hasn't made love in 3 years because she is a one man woman and is saving her puss for the right man. and she keeps demanding a promise that iwont sleep around. we are going to stay together and she flies back after a few days and then i make an appearance to her home town to greet her nieces parents. i want to believe our passion for each other is real and because she is the jealous kinda woman who likes her vanity and narcissm to be nicely stroked and i did just that very nicely on the chats. i don't beleive her feminine narcissm is at an unhealthy level at all mind you. she had spontaneously showed me her small tits on webcam the first night of camchat, like a real family woman stealing time with me (while her tiny daughter was fast asleep besides her) to gauge my reaction (if her narcissitic love supply would stop or continue to flow from my side) and if i would still like her and made noises about me making her horny on the day of her heaviest flow. my love talk really appears to turn her on. i beleive i really got her hooked. it feels real. and a few days back while chatting from office she was eager to check out my penis and made me show it to her. i mean i saw in her that real curiousity about how her lust is going to be satiated (as i've been promising her. that i needed to make love to her 4 times a day to be a happy lover.). i know it was not just a calculated dirty talk to arouse me.

the aunt claims she fell in love with a bad guy who made her really dirty and spoilt her sexually and how none of her nieces in her family would follow her example and how strict she is with them. now he has left her to be a single mom. she also claims to be a degree holder in business and an auditor working for government on contract. her talk and speech is smart and edcuated for sure. i've seen her paper work spread all over her desk and overheard her talking to colleagues, and she is for real. but she is also into a secret money lending business for her boss. the niece's brother is a money collector (goon?). on the webcam, i overheard her about filing a police case on someone.

now i am too tempted to let go of this chance. i am fit, look more than 10+ years younger, never fall sick and a good looker and they both like what i've described about me. the niece is a dream, she doesn't speak much english looks well behaved, maybe even coached on the occasional cam chat session but not too secretively, more with a helping hand by aunt. and all her cousins and relatives wanted to see me from a beach computer on a cousins birthday outing one day. i adore the aunts daughter and want to adopt her as my own. in fact to be honest, i am sure its not just my love talk but my strong expression of fatherly feelings for her daughter that has impressed her. i mean a very real reason for me looking for marriage so late in my life now (early 40ish) is the heartbreak i feel on seeing little one or two year old girls and not being a daddy myself. i get to play instant daddy with this arrangement and also have a beautiful young innocent wife although immature, together along with a sophisticated older and sexy woman as a secret lover in the house, someone who oozes sexuality in every little mannerism. (even her voice is so sexy, i feel like wow!)

so on one hand everyting looks good with an arrangement that will satisfy both my paternal instinct and erotic fantasy, if i make this happen next year and relocate (which i likely won't because i expect better money in other countries, which will make it a part-time triangle with only my would-be-wife living with me except on family visits back home). she particularly likes my promise of raising her daughter like my own. and i am also happy if this erotic love triangle is lived part-time just on vacation (in practical terms).

on the other hand i am paranoid about being scammed! what if the police come knocking after the aunt has let me sleep with her for a few nights when on the out of town visit? what if the aunt denies ever granting me permission? she now knows my real name address and arrival and departure times from phil. i had hidden it until a family webcam session from home showing the child sleeping and aunt supervising the nieces chat. somehow i decided i could trust them and explained my reason for the fake name and details. what do you say guys? please advice if you smell a scam. should i bail out? frankly i am not going completely, the only thing i might hold back is not popping her cherry if i get real paranoid, but that will be such a sorry few days for me to sacrifice the temptation.

the lightest scam i can live with, and i see it coming (i am not all convinced you see) is the living on dole scam. i wire a monthly fee to them to cover their parents cost of living (we've discussed supporting her parents) and the trick being getting many men to pay an annual fee to sleep with her for just a few days. but a large part of me really wants to believe and invest a little in this little dream. at least for a year until i go back again to marry her. (if it turns out real and she's still around for me). i can live with that to find a future with her.

its the potential [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charge that frightens the shit out of me.

peeman

[blue][Deleted by Admin][/blue]

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[u][b]EDITOR's NOTE[/b][/u]: [blue]This report was redacted or deleted because Chocha Monger [u]is limited to posting ACTIONABLE INFORMATION[/u] and is specifically prohibited from posting comments about other forum members. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue]

You should re read your FR as it sounds a mix of Mills & Boon, fantasy, childish and outright " I have the words scammed tatttoed all over my body"

My advice is cut and run. As CM intimated (and it is so rare that CM and I agree on anything. Think pigs are flying tonight) you will be scammed one way or the other.

Come to the Philippines, go to bars, pick up girls and have fun. Don't bother with all the sight seeing stuff as you can do that in between your 4 times a day shagging

But if you ignore this advice you may end up another newspaper headline like other Aussies recently.

Your call

[quote=chocha monger;1418647]peeman, you're a very funny guy. are you going to get scammed? absolutely! .[/quote]i can see it coming too. the guy should use a bit of more common sense. how can someone be, either side, wedding material just by some video chat and some kinky images.

peeman you answered your own question the moment you posted you send the family cash and you have never met them.

look up "foreigner train-wreck scammed by filipina" online and you will see your picture there. but i guess in this case 'scammed' is too harsh a word because you're willingly sending money and you willingly gave your real name, arrival info.

you claim you have all this under control, but they are the ones in control. they have you hook, line, and sinker balls deep into this "fantasy" which will quickly turn into a tragedy.

[quote=chocha monger; 1418647]peeman, you're a very funny guy. are you going to get scammed? absolutely! the aunt knows that you're not marriage material. the minute you saw the aunt you wanted to fuck her too in addition to busting her niece's virgin pussy. right now they're thinking that you're not a serious man at all. that means they need to scam you for all you're worth the minute you land in the philippines. the henchman brother who collects debts for the filipino mobster has your name and arrival details. he might be waiting to take you for a ride out to tondo where you'll be found the next day with a. 45 caliber bullet in the brain and no cash or identification documents on your corpse.

the other scenario is that they'll let you get into a hotel room with the niece. then once you have your prick out trying to bust her cherry a few friendly policemen with big guns draw will bust into the room to rescue her. you'll be charged with [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] an **** girl, and maybe even molesting the baby too. your family will be selling the cow back home to wire the huge bribes needed to secure your deportation. filipino policemen love horny indians for this precise reason. you're headed for being the main ingredient in a curried foreigner sandwich.[/quote][quote=wicked roger; 1418674]you should re read your fr as it sounds a mix of mills & boon, fantasy, childish and outright " i have the words scammed tatttoed all over my body"

my advice is cut and run. as cm intimated (and it is so rare that cm and i agree on anything. think pigs are flying tonight) you will be scammed one way or the other.

come to the philippines, go to bars, pick up girls and have fun. don't bother with all the sight seeing stuff as you can do that in between your 4 times a day shagging

but if you ignore this advice you may end up another newspaper headline like other aussies recently.

your call[/quote]thanks guys! i will re-consider. yes its a bit of fantasy ride. i will tell the aunt tomorrow the plan is cancelled i guess. she's not ****. but still it makes sense. its the whole family setting on webcam that lulled me into a thinking maybe its ok. and the sleepover with the niece is going to happen a long way away from home by flight at a vacation spot. with the aunt and her baby in the next room. so i thought its not like bring in the local crowd with known scamster cops. i still wasn't entirely comfortable, paranoid that i am so decied to ask for advice. i certainly feel much more free and relaxed about my vacation thinking about plain mongering. i think i should just experience it for a few years before deciding.

peeman

[quote=stroker ace88; 1418691]peeman you answered your own question the moment you posted you send the family cash and you have never met them.

look up "foreigner train-wreck scammed by filipina" online and you will see your picture there. but i guess in this case 'scammed' is too harsh a word because you're willingly sending money and you willingly gave your real name, arrival info.

you claim you have all this under control, but they are the ones in control. they have you hook, line, and sinker balls deep into this "fantasy" which will quickly turn into a tragedy.[/quote]i appreciate your advice, but i have not been so naive as you describe. i only described the fantasy i created for me (or both of us) in the narrative like i wanted to believe in it. but i never fell for it totally in reality. theres always a watcher in the back of my mind. and i never sent them money, but the idea that i support the family was discussed. i did play a game last week, of backing off. when the aunt came forward with the proposal that its ok if i sleep with her to tempt me. it did raise some alarm bells in the back of my mind how she dangled the bait when it looked like they were going to lose me. the rest of the experience i described below was part of the game of enjoying a bit of dirty chat and watching and feeling the fun myself, seeing where it goes.

now that the time to confirm bookings and itinerary is close, i posted this because i don't have friends to share this with. before actually falling for the trap.

fwiw i am a little knowledgeable as an infosec person and social engineering and i've trained myself to be a little paranoid. but i played with temptation knowingly anyways, and voiced my dilemna on this thread to share.

all the same i appreciate your time and words of warning. i do not dismiss them.

i emailed her saying exactly why i am not going to meet her. i want to see her reaction over the next few days.

thanks everyone. you are right, there is plenty of pussy available in phil to enjoy and distract oneself with. i was flirting with danger knowingly for the thrill of it.

lastly since this is the only thread with a more serious tone i owe you guys on isg a lot. it is helping me pick up my life and put it into a different league slowly but steadily. last new years i was inspired to make a start after browsing isg and did 14 gals in 12 days in thailand. i didn't post because i didn't maintain a captains log book. and my memory of all the useful details faded when my post-vacation stupor went away. if any of you guys coming to bangalore, introduce yourself to me via pm and i will buy you a free beer!

warm regards.

peeman

no action on this thread in a while but it made for interesting reading.

replys were split, overly paranoid or just being cautious were the general responses.

has anyone ever heard first hand about any of these scams occuring? any real idea how rare or common they are? i realize that the ones where the guy paid up quickly will never be reported so any reliable qualitative information will be hard to get.

the advice about paying first policeman was a good idea. any idea what the going rate would be? 1 000 p 10 000 p more?

would wallet sized pictures of ben franklin be better than local currency?

i alm looking for non pros, hunting them on tagged and dating sites, will keep a record of conservations and sms's as back up. i always make sure she is of age, at least if she states several times that she is 18+ and you have a record of it, then you have some defence.

i also often will video, not for protection against a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charge but for future viewing enjoyment. i'll do this more often.

happy humping.

kg.

[quote=kabulguy;1601078]

i alm looking for non pros, hunting them on tagged and dating sites, will keep a record of conservations and sms's as back up. i always make sure she is of age, at least if she states several times that she is 18+ and you have a record of it, then you have some defence.



kg.[/quote]there is no, repeat no defence to the **** charge. she can and would say " but sir, he made me write / type / text that i was over 18 ". and guess what, she would be believed. you as the foreigner would not be believed.

never ever get involved with anyone ****. the prisons there are holes in which you wouldn't want to shove a pig.

[quote=freebiefan;1601089]....

never ever get involved with anyone ****. the prisons there are holes in which you wouldn't want to shove a pig.[/quote]i would never knowlengly get involved with someone ****. had a girl from an escort agency in manila once and she offered to call her friend who was 17 to come over the next night for same as escort agency fee was for one and i could have both.

ran from that as fast as i could.

simply is not worth the hassle. otoh helping a virgin celebrate her 18th birthday by becoming a non virgin is fine with me.

propblem is knowing for sure that she is of legal age.

[quote=peeman;1418721]i appreciate your advice, but i have not been so naive as you describe. i only described the fantasy i created for me (or both of us) in the narrative like i wanted to believe in it. but i never fell for it totally in reality. theres always a watcher in the back of my mind. and i never sent them money, but the idea that i support the family was discussed. i did play a game last week, of backing off. when the aunt came forward with the proposal that its ok if i sleep with her to tempt me. it did raise some alarm bells in the back of my mind how she dangled the bait when it looked like they were going to lose me. the rest of the experience i described below was part of the game of enjoying a bit of dirty chat and watching and feeling the fun myself, seeing where it goes.

now that the time to confirm bookings and itinerary is close, i posted this because i don't have friends to share this with. before actually falling for the trap.

fwiw i am a little knowledgeable as an infosec person and social engineering and i've trained myself to be a little paranoid. but i played with temptation knowingly anyways, and voiced my dilemna on this thread to share.

all the same i appreciate your time and words of warning. i do not dismiss them.

i emailed her saying exactly why i am not going to meet her. i want to see her reaction over the next few days.

thanks everyone. you are right, there is plenty of pussy available in phil to enjoy and distract oneself with. i was flirting with danger knowingly for the thrill of it.

lastly since this is the only thread with a more serious tone i owe you guys on isg a lot. it is helping me pick up my life and put it into a different league slowly but steadily. last new years i was inspired to make a start after browsing isg and did 14 gals in 12 days in thailand. i didn't post because i didn't maintain a captains log book. and my memory of all the useful details faded when my post-vacation stupor went away. if any of you guys coming to bangalore, introduce yourself to me via pm and i will buy you a free beer!

warm regards.

peeman[/quote]pm, you are trying to fuck the aunt while you are making big promises to the young virgin. please man up and don't cry like a little girl when you get fucked over. in my book, hopefully soon!

[quote=kabulguy;1601142]i would never knowlengly get involved with someone ****. had a girl from an escort agency in manila once and she offered to call her friend who was 17 to come over the next night for same as escort agency fee was for one and i could have both.

ran from that as fast as i could.

simply is not worth the hassle. otoh helping a virgin celebrate her 18th birthday by becoming a non virgin is fine with me.

propblem is knowing for sure that she is of legal age.[/quote]the problem starts when you realize that fake i the's are very easy to get in the philippines, so even if you bothered to check, can you really be sure it's real? even if the filipina has a dating profile that says she is legal or she shows you her fake i the, the laws state that anyone in the company of a minor that is not a relative can be prosecuted. holding up a photocopy of her dating profile is not considered a viable explanation.

if you are unsure, walk away.

[quote=dg8787;1601272]pm, you are trying to fuck the aunt while you are making big promises to the young virgin. please man up and don't cry like a little girl when you get fucked over. in my book, hopefully soon![/quote]think peeman realized. peeman post is more than one year old. i was a bit curious and tried to check how this ended. you will find more recent posts from him but nothing about the aunt or the young virgin. peeman, how did it end?

[quote=dg8787;1601272]pm, you are trying to fuck the aunt while you are making big promises to the young virgin. please man up and don't cry like a little girl when you get fucked over. in my book, hopefully soon![/quote]looking at other posts i might have the feeling peeman backed off. his post is more than one year old.

peeman: what happened?

[quote=peeman;1418427]guys,

its the potential [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charge that frightens the shit out of me.

peeman[/quote]bro, this sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen, bail while you still can.

As a hobbyist who fell victim to scammers at least once, my lesson learnt is STAY far far far far far far away!

Victor.

[QUOTE=Mike921;1601667]bro, this sounds like a train wreck waiting to happen, bail while you still can.[/QUOTE]

Revisiting this post after a long time. Can't believe today what I even considered once and posted about it. Yeah I was just being chatty. Consider it whisky talk. Of course I didn't fall for it. Never met her. I don't even remember her face now. LOL.