General Information

[Robbaf]

When I read this kind of comment I cringe. The girls won't lower themselves to ask for money. If one would RTFF they might learn a little about the Philippine girl mindset.

I agree. It amazes me when I read so many reports of girls scamming on DIA, but I think a lot of guys who use the site scam the girls just as much. If they lived here and seen the true local living conditions of these girls maybe they would have more compassion.

Robb

[Robbaf]

If I ask them if they want money or am I supposed to give them money what will they say? Is there any case or situation when a girl would be a freebie?

It is very easy. Slide a 1000P in her pocket and say this is for your taxi, cell load.

Robb

[Aussie Jo]

Aussie Jo,

I'm looking forward to your report.

By the terraces are you referring to the open area, with the steps and the fountains?

I'll be in Cebu this May.

Yes. I am amazed at how many western single men frequent the area. I'll generalise and say that most of us are juggling various txt messages and looking at hotties. The lift at the hotel is busy with punters taking their catches to the rooms. I'm not sure if I should wink at them in the lift or what. I'm working during the day and like to give the guys support keeping the game up during the day light hours.

Aj

[Member #4351]

Is there any case or situation when a girl would be a freebie?

If she has a well paying job and a car. Maybe someone like the real estate executive kicked out of a forum member's room at the Radisson.

But I think that not giving a girl who lives in abject poverty 500 or 1000 pesos after she has made you happy is not something to be proud of. I don't think that this amount of money will be spoiling thechica, it will probably be spent on a bag of rice for the family.

[Mc Don]

Most girls will ask for money at some point. If she doesn't ask I would still give her something but at the end of the day I think sometimes we are too nice to DIA's or mall pick ups. I realise that they are poor and all that and help will be appreciated but there is the argument that we are getting them use to money and in some ways we are pushing them to prostitution. Long time ago I brought a regular girl that worked in the department store in SM to LAC in malate. My next trip I found her in LAC, she ditched her job to because she figured she would make more money in LAC.

[Mr Enternational]

When I read this kind of comment I cringe. The girls won't lower themselves to ask for money. If one would RTFF they might learn a little about the Philippine girl mindset.

If I ask them if they want money or am I supposed to give them money what will they say? Is there any case or situation when a girl would be a freebie?

[Member #4351]

three freebies in three nights.

When I read this kind of comment I cringe. The girls won't lower themselves to ask for money. If one would RTFF they might learn a little about the Philippine girl mindset.

[Aussie Jo]

Hi Guys,

Just thought I'd put a shout out to all of the mongers I see wandering around Ayala each day. Hope you are enjoying the pickings. It is hard to walk through the centre of the Terraces without being asked by a young one if I am looking for a lady, or do I have the time etc. Initially when I strolled through looking fo rclassic hookers I was looking for high heled short skirt hotties. The talent on offer is so much more subtle.

I stopped off at TGI Fridays expecting to chat to one of the ladies wandering bye or to see if I was approached there. Ending up chatting to a drunk young lady and the rest is history. So far, three freebies in three nights. It really is a wonderful country.

Will update if I venture into the P4P scene.

AJ.

[Gangles]

I have used the onion analogy for a long time to explain culture.

But I start from the inside. The core of the onion is basic animal behaviour, survival, procreation.

The first time that I was in PNG, a long time ago, most of the people behaved this way.

Over time, and helped by outside influence, layers of the onion are added by society. Each layer increasingly inhibits basic animal behaviour, and inhibits our actions. As time goes by, society adds more layers, more regulations, more rules, more inhibitions.

Obviously some societies have many more layers than others.

So from my perspective, the behaviours that I observe in most filipinos are those of the hunter-gatherer culture. And there are far less layers that on those from western culture, particularly countries of British origins, who have been trapped by the Victorian ethic regarding sexuality and sexual behaviour.

The predilection of young pinays to hav children reflects an onion with many fewer layers, much closer to the core behaviours of procreation and survival.

Similarly, mating rituals in the Philippines are both less complex and more complex than those of western countries, particularly of those countries infused with the Victorian ethic.

I can talk about this stuff for a long time, because I have had a particular interest in cultures for a long time.

G

[Frenzy3]

ge rk and others who move here do not stop trying to peel the onion. pi is made up of so many different people enjoy it. i have 4 gf who live with me and the differences in experiance and iq is so varied. the highest iq is also the best looker and the one i spend more time with her and her family. the next girl is the dumbest and who's family is in and out of jail she use to work in the bars she started work when she was 14 knows the life of hard knocks. the next is the farmers daughter. the last is the cousin of one of my longest serving employees she got into it as she saw how much i pay. tell me where else you get such a mix.

point is it is a rich life of many experience and never dull. sure i have time to read forums, books and also work. most of the time expats have to drag me away from my life here.

[GoodEnough]

Snow Koala, I would argue that, having come to that realization, you're in a good position to retire, since you have rocognized that you will continue to need protracted, regular contact with foreigners who share similar intellectual interests. It's that perception, or should I say acting on that perception that enables me to survive and thrive here. The fact is that you can find a circle of similarly-minded friends, and once you've done that, you can preserve your brain, your sanity, and your sexual appetite. It's recognizing the limitations of the country, and figuring out how to live well within them, that enables RK, several others whom I know well and me to survive quite well and to enjoy our lives here. It depends on where you live and, to a certain extent on what you do with your time.

GE

[Snow Koala]

GE,

At the risk of soundling like a snob, I quite agree that intellectually I am not challenged here. I have been working in Philippines for 1. 5 years for a foreign company in a highly specialist technical area. Although I work with some very smart Filipinos with international working experience who I enjoy working with, I find I crave the conference calls with the head office just to engage in intellectually challenging conversation. The concepts of "what if", risk analysis and scenario based planning, I have simply given up on the attempts at conversation.

For me this converstaion came up when thinking longer term about retiring here in Philippines. After recently travelling around Philippines and talking to a few early retirees, I realised my brain would go to mush which I don't think I am ready for that.

Snow.

I've known RK for quite a while now, and he's a seriously smart guy and a student of human (Pinoy-human) nature, so he does understand the mores, the habits and motivations inhering in local culture much better than most, and we've spent some pleasant hours together discussing the aforementioned. While I find it generally true, that the longer you stay here, particularly if you work with Filipinos, the more you understand, it's equally true that there are some aspects of the culture that I've given up even trying to understand. I've concluded that either my understanding is purely superficial or that there's no set of unifying principles to the place at all.

The reluctance, for example to engage in critical thought, to analyze personal situations, to plan for the longer range in a way that doesn't resemble wish fulfillment are all traits that I've rarely (perhaps never) observed here, even among seriously smart Filipinos. The absence of a true literary corpus, of a national musical heritage, the absence of widespread indigenous theater and the lack of poetry are lacunae that I don't think I've ever observed elsewhere. Nor can I understand the fatalism-the "other-directedness"-that seems to pervade the culture. And there's nothing in my training, my experience or my reading that has helped me to understand.

I was with a French friend who lives here, a few nights ago, and we were discussing French poetry, and then the more general subject of poetry. All of a sudden he said something like: "You know, I could never have this conversation with a Filipino. Filipinos do not 'get' poetry." And he went on to say that even his wife, who spent a decade with him in France, has any grasp of what poetry is, and why he "needs" expat friends with whom he can share his traditional cultural milieu. I feel the same. I could never survive here in a Filipino bubble, no matter how well educated, kind and well meaning my friends were. The bottom line for me, is that there's little or no intellectual engagement here, and precious little in the way of abstract thought.

The most startling characteristic of the onion is that it has no core. Just a series of layers that, once removed, reveal nothing at all. Perhaps then, the analogy of this country to the onion is more apt than I realized, because I think the same may be true of the Philippines.

GE.

GE

[GoodEnough]

I've known RK for quite a while now, and he's a seriously smart guy and a student of human (Pinoy-human) nature, so he does understand the mores, the habits and motivations inhering in local culture much better than most, and we've spent some pleasant hours together discussing the aforementioned. While I find it generally true, that the longer you stay here, particularly if you work with Filipinos, the more you understand, it's equally true that there are some aspects of the culture that I've given up even trying to understand. I've concluded that either my understanding is purely superficial or that there's no set of unifying principles to the place at all.

The reluctance, for example to engage in critical thought, to analyze personal situations, to plan for the longer range in a way that doesn't resemble wish fulfillment are all traits that I've rarely (perhaps never) observed here, even among seriously smart Filipinos. The absence of a true literary corpus, of a national musical heritage, the absence of widespread indigenous theater and the lack of poetry are lacunae that I don't think I've ever observed elsewhere. Nor can I understand the fatalism-the "other-directedness"-that seems to pervade the culture. And there's nothing in my training, my experience or my reading that has helped me to understand.

I was with a French friend who lives here, a few nights ago, and we were discussing French poetry, and then the more general subject of poetry. All of a sudden he said something like: "You know, I could never have this conversation with a Filipino. Filipinos do not 'get' poetry." And he went on to say that even his wife, who spent a decade with him in France, has any grasp of what poetry is, and why he "needs" expat friends with whom he can share his traditional cultural milieu. I feel the same. I could never survive here in a Filipino bubble, no matter how well educated, kind and well meaning my friends were. The bottom line for me, is that there's little or no intellectual engagement here, and precious little in the way of abstract thought.

The most startling characteristic of the onion is that it has no core. Just a series of layers that, once removed, reveal nothing at all. Perhaps then, the analogy of this country to the onion is more apt than I realized, because I think the same may be true of the Philippines.

GE.

GE

[WestCoast1]

- Working with Filipinos: a cross-cultural encounter (Author: F. Landa Jocano)

- Understanding Filipino Values: a Management Approach (Author: Tomas D Andres)

- Understanding (Ilocano, Visayan, Tagalog) Values. 3 books all written by Tomas D. Andres.

Nice. On one of the other boards a few years ago, some guy posted a link to some cultural anthropology. Some european sociologists went to Philippines and lived with several tribes in the 1920's, and another group went in the 1950's. The group from the 1920's lived with a kampapangan community for about one year, then moved north and lived with a tribe east of the baguio mountain area, then went to the farthest north tip of Luzon and lived with a tribe there for a year. In their writing (some journal) , which was extensive, they described dating, marriage, divorce / separation, food gathering (farming and trading for fish) , parties, social activities, and war-making (which was not uncommon with neighboring tribes). Interestingly, they describe many of the current filipine cultural oddities that we see today:

* filipinos in all tribes like to leave decision-making up to anyone other than themselves (bahala ka. Its up to you. I can't decide, so you decide). Fortunately there was always one person or a group that would make important decisions, even if the europeans thought those decisions were terrible.

* filipinos in all tribes like to bring gifts to others, and receive gifts when others visit them (pasalubong)

* filipinos often begged repeatedly for gifts / money from any stranger passing through the village. This asking of money from the europeans was constant in every community they lived in, during their entire stay (up to one year) with the villagers. Tribal leaders would routinely ask the europeans to go to the nearest town and buy things for the tribe. While the tribe had enough resources to trade for what they wanted, the tribe attempted to get the sociologists to pay for what they wanted. Does this not sound like the many, many men who visit with their pinay's family, only to be dragged to a restaurant and made to pay for the family's meal? Or he is dragged to the mall?

* tribal filipinos have trouble saying "I don't know" when they don't know an answer. They will make up any answer before saying "I don't know."

There were several journal articles, and they were long. Very interesting reading. One tribe had interesting pre-marital customs for the young couple to be married (it all sounded like teenage drama, but for the whole tribe to watch and enjoy). Some of the things reported have disappeared as the culture advances into westernization.

[Red Kilt]

. SNIP.

Philippine society is more like an onion. It has many layers each one digging deeper and deeper into the fabric and culture. On the surface things seem simplistic and relatively straight forward. The real problem begins when a question of culture, etiquette or ethics (western or Filipino) comes up on the board. Guys in the last two categories spend great amounts of time and effort trying to explain to the rest of the board the real reasons and motivations behind certain local actions and reactions, with little success. It's not a question of IQ or observation that's lacking, but of experience and understanding. The more time someone spends in the Philippines the more one learns.

The recent 'hot button' topics that have been labeled by some as outright scams are a perfect example of issues that go deeper. Some of these incidents are scams only on the surface but to the guys in the last two categories it's a cultural issue. No amount of explaining will convince some otherwise. Many senior members have in the past thrown up there hands in frustration and stopped posting for that very reason.

Excellent analysis Stroker.

Count me in as one of the senior members who lives (and works) here and who has thrown up my hands in frustration at some of the classically erroneous information posted here based on a few days in town. The metaphor of the Philippines as an onion with lots of layers is so true.

National Book Store has a whole shelf devoted to understanding Filipino cultures, norms, folk lores, business practices etc, and I often give one of these books to any visiting foreign staff to read before they launch themselves into dealing with Filipino colleagues.

Some titles picked at random from my own personal bookshelf:

- Working with Filipinos: a cross-cultural encounter (Author: F. Landa Jocano)

- Understanding Filipino Values: a Management Approach (Author: Tomas D Andres)

- Understanding (Ilocano, Visayan, Tagalog) Values. 3 books all written by Tomas D. Andres.

For guys who genuinely want to understand what is going on around them, I suggest you indulge yourself in some self-education. Such a ploy helped me considerably to assimilate into the local environment, and to understand just what was going on in some of these b/gs, DIA profiles and FLs minds.

For the 2 week "slash and burn" monger, no need to worry about it. Just carry on full tilt, wreak havoc, and leave without a backward glance, but please don't complain on forums like ISG about how things are so very different here when you don't try to analyse why.