General Reports

[Nyezhov]

My problem with Thai retirement visas are the ever changing rules, the inconsistency, the arbitrariness, the lines at Chaeng Wattana (great food), the reporting, the forms, etc.

Not even counting my total desire to avoid Thai banking. And yes I already have a Thai bank account. And the politics? Oi Vey.

But, YMMV.

Anyway, I have to move some household effects to Siem Reap. Ayone have some experience in this regard? Nothing super big, clothes, Kitchen stuff, etc.

[Explorer8939]

I have 2 trips lined up next week, each with 2 ladies.

The first trip is Singapore. The two ladies will share a room with me, as the 2 ladies are hard core bargirls. Will they fuck me in front of the other? Probably.

The second trip is Koh Lipe, where we will have 2 rooms. I will alternate nights, so I will sleep with them separately. However, one of the ladies has a non-platonic interest in the other. So maybe something will happen.

[LittleBigMan]

The O Non-Immigrant Visa is generally given when you apply for it in Thailand. The O-A Non Immigrant Visa is generally given when you apply for it in the USA, much as you said.

Also, much as you said, the O Non-Immigrant Visa does not require you to have the minimum health insurance coverage including for Covid. But the O-A Non Immigrant Visa does.

However, bear in mind the O Non-Immigrant Visa is "supposed" to be issued to people who have a Thai spouse, a Thai child or perhaps another close relative living in Thailand and you are "supposedly" applying for that Visa in order to visit or be close to them. Maybe you being here for serious medical treatment is another qualification for it, not sure. It remains to be discovered if or when any Immigration Officer will ask an O non-Immigrant Visa applicant or holder to provide proof of those qualifications.

BTW, the required amount of health insurance coverage for the O-A Non Immigrant Visa holder has rather quietly been increased to 3,000,000 baht. And it no longer needs to be split between In-Patient and Out-Patient coverage. It can be 100% In-Patient coverage. But it still needs to include coverage for Covid.

The only reason I can think of for me to allow my O-A Non Immigrant Visa to expire so I can start over with an O Non-Immigrant Visa would be to dodge that health insurance coverage requirement. However, that can be a foolish thing to do for anyone old enough to be retired and living full time in Thailand. Maybe at age 50 your prospects for needing expensive medical care in the country where you live is slight. But after 65 it is a different matter. Then the question is do I want to cancel my health insurance now to save a few thousand baht and, what, wait until some really serious medical issue pops up 5-10 years from now to start shopping for coverage? That's a really dumb plan, imo. For one thing, you will need to get a full medical check up before they issue you a policy and they will find out whatever this serious medical condition is. Consequently, they will exempt that pre-existing condition and not cover you for it. At best you will then get some coverage for stuff that isn't very serious, that you show no signs of having but since you are now applying at age 70+ or whatever you are going to start paying dearly for it.

Thankfully, I have not needed the Thai health insurance coverage I have been paying for since long before it was even required of O-A Non Immigrant Visa holders to have it. Not even for a single hour of hospitalization. But that is fine considering the health insurance Murphy's Law voodoo that I do indeed believe in; If you need it, you won't have it and if you have it, you won't need it.

When I did apply it was pretty simple I hear about all these types of visas like the elite, personally, I wouldn't spend the money I don't see any advantage to kicking out that money to get one. As for having to be married to get an Imm-O not sure about that. I help a number of friends and family who retired here single and use Thailand as a base to travel.

As for insurance, I can write a book on it, since I came here 15 plus years without buying since I arrived with local companies never using several years ago I stopped buying for a number of reasons one was they wanted the same premium for half the coverage went from 1. 5 million to 700,000. In general, even if they don't cancel you will price you out of the market. Coverage here they want you to basically be a perfect specimen to take you. By the time you reach 60, you will start to see the premium rise even if no claim is made expect a 2-4,000 baht increase many of the policies sold here for expats don't cover many items like cancer etc I have a policy for my Thai son and the coverage for Thais are far more extensive. I've had Thai, LMG, Bupa, AXA, Pacific? And others pretty much will suck you drive. Policies for little coverage from the above would run you 75,000 baht a year if you pass their requirement. Personally, today since I'm still able to run back and forth yearly plan ahead and use my Medicare benefits so far so good while at the same time putting aside money, taking care of myself, finding alternatives, clinics for small stuff, and reasonable alternative hospitals for long stays.

So as noted if you already have a policy and the cost is no problem keep it, if not the best is to seek policies abroad where you got some consumer recourse for they are costly and will cover you in other countries while you travel.

As for money in the bank, I read your statement maybe it is different in Bangkok, but here in Jomtien, the rule of thumb is the 800,000 baht prior to reapplying must be intact 2 months prior and after granted can't be touched for another 3 months. Thereafter you can use the money but NEVER dip below 400,000 baht. Depending on who you are I had a good friend, not all marble is there had 800,000 baht and got his extension within hours for whatever reason withdrew money and his balance dipped just under 800,000 baht and was told his extension was invalid to start over again. Being Thailand took a small walk outside settle up 5000 baht and extended back in business.

[EihTooms]

For me just leave 800 k in a Thai bank. Unless there are signs of a coup or something leave it in there. For me it's worth ridding myself the headache of depositing this and that amount each month. When I looked into this a couple of years ago all I was reading was a bunch or Brits complaining how they changed the monthly deposit rules. I just thought to my are you kidding me why don't you just deposit 800 k into your bank account? I like things like Visas kept simple. That should not be my main worry when I'm retired. So much so I'm considering just buying a 10 or 20 year Thai Elite Visa. Anyone here have an Elite Visa?

BTW what insurance do those of you who are over 50 use when you are out of Thailand. I know there's Safety Wing but I hear they aren't great when you actually need to make a big claim. I'm not too worried about medical bills while I'm in countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia etc. They'll sting but not break me. I'm more concerned when I am traveling to Japan, Korea, Singapore, Canada, Europe, Dubai, etc.

I think the 800 K deposit and just leave it there method is a good one if your plan is to travel around and live outside of Thailand a month here and there at a time all during retirement. My overview was really about living full time in Thailand as I do with only a few days or weeks per year traveling outside of Thailand.

I don't know what those Brits were complaining about. But the day each month that I get money automatically deposited into my USA bank account from various sources such as a pension, Social Security, rental property, etc, usually on the 1st to 3rd day of the month, I transfer $2500 -$3500 USD of it all at once to my Thai bank account via Wise after selecting the "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" option as my reason for the transfer.

That takes about 1 minute and at least by the afternoon of the next business day that money lands in my Thai bank account ready to be spent on my monthly living / entertainment expenses or, for that matter, travel expenses to wherever.

That is all there is to it. It's a snap. If I choose other options as my reason for the transfer I might get the money in my Thai bank account within seconds. The "Funds for long term stay in Thailand" option takes a few hours longer, usually until the next business day if I want it to show up as a "Foreign Transfer" on my Thai bank statement. Which I do. And that is the statement I hand over to Immigration when I go there to extend my visa to prove I made those monthly transfers just as the 800 K depositor needs to show them the bank statement for that situation every year.

Of course, if I need more money than that in a given month I simply open my Wise app and 1 minute later more money is on the way. But I know I will spend at least $2500 USD in that month of living and recreating in Thailand whether I have another 800 K baht sitting in my Thai bank account or not and I know $2500 USD will equal at least 65,000 baht and show up as such on my Thai bank statement.

Maybe it is more of a hassle than that for Brits lately. Don't know.

[TooDirty]

I like things like Visas kept simple. That should not be my main worry when I'm retired. So much so I'm considering just buying a 10 or 20 year Thai Elite Visa. Anyone here have an Elite Visa?

These are the two options I'm considering, either 800 k in a Thai bank or first the 5 year Thai Elite then upgrading to the longer one if I'm still kicking and Thailand hasn't become the killing fields or something. Thai Elite sounds good just to not have to put up with most of the BS. If I work the next three years I'll probably go Thai Elite, otherwise I might go cheaper with the plain old retirement visa. Probably transfer most of my assets to baht gold since it's so easy to move back and forth in Thailand.

Does anyone know if you can make Thai bank accounts "payable on death" like you can in the USA? If I die in Thailand could my sister come over and get a "death certificate" to take to a Thai bank and claim my assets via "payable on death" or would I need a Thai will for that ? I know I'll need a Thai will if I own a condo or some other sort of property. If you die overseas can your beneficiary take your "death certificate" back to the USA and use it there for POD accounts?

[XXL]

Thai banks have not been faring too poorly compared to EU or US banks in terms of going bankrupt or risking to do so.

[Banana Boi]

For me just leave 800 k in a Thai bank. Unless there are signs of a coup or something leave it in there. For me it's worth ridding myself the headache of depositing this and that amount each month. When I looked into this a couple of years ago all I was reading was a bunch or Brits complaining how they changed the monthly deposit rules. I just thought to my are you kidding me why don't you just deposit 800 k into your bank account? I like things like Visas kept simple. That should not be my main worry when I'm retired. So much so I'm considering just buying a 10 or 20 year Thai Elite Visa. Anyone here have an Elite Visa?

BTW what insurance do those of you who are over 50 use when you are out of Thailand. I know there's Safety Wing but I hear they aren't great when you actually need to make a big claim. I'm not too worried about medical bills while I'm in countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia etc. They'll sting but not break me. I'm more concerned when I am traveling to Japan, Korea, Singapore, Canada, Europe, Dubai, etc.

[KumuMan]

Well, there again, are you going to be withdrawing a daily, weekly or monthly amount of baht out of that 800 K baht in your Thai bank account, roughly 66,000 baht X 12, to pay for all of your living and recreational expenses? And when it gets down to 100 K baht two or three months before your next trip to Immigration to extend your visa, will you be scrambling to make another large transfer from wherever to deposit the missing 700 K baht into that account? You know, you can't just make an 800 K baht deposit into that account the day before you go to Immigration to extend your visa. If your plan is to avoid the monthly Foreign Transfer method entirely, it needs to have been there in full a few months before you need to extend your visa and still be there in full the day you extend your visa.

Oh yes, the Immigration officer will require you to go to your bank's nearest Passbook Update Machine to update your passbook and show her the original passbook and a copy of that updated page dated the very day you are extending your visa..

Yes but to some the interest on 25 k is just "bread money."

[HorseTrader]

I didn't want to leave the lump sitting in a Thai bank making 0%, so instead I have it sitting in an American bank at 0. 25% (or some other shit rate. I don't even know what it is, but it's shit.)

Sounds like you are dealing with your local USA bank. I keep a small amount of money at such a bank, but I keep most of my "immediately available" money at FDIC internet banks that pay much better interest. For example, Discover Bank is now paying 4.25% on savings account whereas my local bank is paying 0.2%. You can do very quick online transfers of money to and from your local bank and an internet bank.

[EihTooms]

....
Although I was married I've never turned my retirement into a marriage. To be honest the number of Visa are very confusing there is an Immigration O, then there is an Immigration O-A many get them mixed up. I got the Imm-O and did it with my brother's help here in Pattaya, it was pretty easy. I highly suggest you don't do it in the States, more paperwork, the O-A can only be done in the States that is the one that you have medical insurance. On the surface, they are very similar to me not sure why anyone would want one with their restrictions especially if you are over 50 or retired.
...

The O Non-Immigrant Visa is generally given when you apply for it in Thailand. The O-A Non Immigrant Visa is generally given when you apply for it in the USA, much as you said.

Also, much as you said, the O Non-Immigrant Visa does not require you to have the minimum health insurance coverage including for Covid. But the O-A Non Immigrant Visa does.

However, bear in mind the O Non-Immigrant Visa is "supposed" to be issued to people who have a Thai spouse, a Thai child or perhaps another close relative living in Thailand and you are "supposedly" applying for that Visa in order to visit or be close to them. Maybe you being here for serious medical treatment is another qualification for it, not sure. It remains to be discovered if or when any Immigration Officer will ask an O non-Immigrant Visa applicant or holder to provide proof of those qualifications.

BTW, the required amount of health insurance coverage for the O-A Non Immigrant Visa holder has rather quietly been increased to 3,000,000 baht. And it no longer needs to be split between In-Patient and Out-Patient coverage. It can be 100% In-Patient coverage. But it still needs to include coverage for Covid.

The only reason I can think of for me to allow my O-A Non Immigrant Visa to expire so I can start over with an O Non-Immigrant Visa would be to dodge that health insurance coverage requirement. However, that can be a foolish thing to do for anyone old enough to be retired and living full time in Thailand. Maybe at age 50 your prospects for needing expensive medical care in the country where you live is slight. But after 65 it is a different matter. Then the question is do I want to cancel my health insurance now to save a few thousand baht and, what, wait until some really serious medical issue pops up 5-10 years from now to start shopping for coverage? That's a really dumb plan, imo. For one thing, you will need to get a full medical check up before they issue you a policy and they will find out whatever this serious medical condition is. Consequently, they will exempt that pre-existing condition and not cover you for it. At best you will then get some coverage for stuff that isn't very serious, that you show no signs of having but since you are now applying at age 70+ or whatever you are going to start paying dearly for it.

Thankfully, I have not needed the Thai health insurance coverage I have been paying for since long before it was even required of O-A Non Immigrant Visa holders to have it. Not even for a single hour of hospitalization. But that is fine considering the health insurance Murphy's Law voodoo that I do indeed believe in; If you need it, you won't have it and if you have it, you won't need it.

[EihTooms]

I didn't want to leave the lump sitting in a Thai bank making 0%, so instead I have it sitting in an American bank at 0. 25% (or some other shit rate. I don't even know what it is, but it's shit.) and hassle with the 65 k Bhat / month. Which is just a long way of saying you're right. Next time my visa comes up I'll be switching over to the 800 k set it and forget it method. I think there are even some, very few and also shit rate, options for interest bearing Thai accounts. I haven't homeworked that bit out myself yet, just repeating rumors, so don't quote me on that. But yeah, stick 800 k in the bank and give Immigration a few docs and a 1900 Bhat a year fee and you'll be looking a good bit smarter than me.

Well, there again, are you going to be withdrawing a daily, weekly or monthly amount of baht out of that 800 K baht in your Thai bank account, roughly 66,000 baht X 12, to pay for all of your living and recreational expenses? And when it gets down to 100 K baht two or three months before your next trip to Immigration to extend your visa, will you be scrambling to make another large transfer from wherever to deposit the missing 700 K baht into that account? You know, you can't just make an 800 K baht deposit into that account the day before you go to Immigration to extend your visa. If your plan is to avoid the monthly Foreign Transfer method entirely, it needs to have been there in full a few months before you need to extend your visa and still be there in full the day you extend your visa.

Oh yes, the Immigration officer will require you to go to your bank's nearest Passbook Update Machine to update your passbook and show her the original passbook and a copy of that updated page dated the very day you are extending your visa.

And you won't just be showing Immigration your bank passbook as proof that the 800 K baht is there in full just as it was a few months prior. You will still need to produce a letter of verification from a bank officer that you have an account in that bank, the cost for that letter being 100 baht, just the same as I do when I hand them my 200 baht 12 month bank statement printout. I believe some Thai banks will provide that for free. Now, I could avoid paying 200 baht to have my bank print out the 12 previous months of Foreign Transfer activity as long as I am willing to carry around my bank passbook and update it in one of those machines every month, then make photo copies of every page for the previous 12 months to hand to Immigration. But asking my bank to do it all at once for the whole 12 months just a week or so before I head to Immigration is so much easier.

Anyway, I really don't see where any potential hassle has been reduced with the 800 K baht deposit method in that scenario.

On the other hand, if you are just going to leave that 800 K baht sitting in your Thai bank account year after year untouched just so you can show Immigration the proof of that along with the verification letter each time instead of the proof that you make a Foreign Transfer of at least 65,000 baht each month as I do, where is the money for your monthly living expenses supposed to come from? From a monthly Foreign Transfer? LOL. That is where my monthly living expenses come from. Usually much more than 65,000 baht each month. Therefore, as long as I am going to make those monthly 65,000+ baht Foreign Transfers into my Thai bank account anyway, why on Earth would I want to leave 800 K baht in my Thai bank account doing essentially nothing all year, much less year after year?

I can think of much better things to do with approximately $23,000 USD than leaving it sitting in a Thai bank producing practically nothing of value in return year after year. Meanwhile, some of my sources of those monthly Foreign Transfers are more than earning their keep in the USA and I can control whether or not to transfer a larger sum this month and a smaller sum next month or vice versa depending on the economic conditions of the moment, provided I transfer at least the equivalent of 65,000 baht each month, which is a snap to do with Wise.

[Explorer8939]

Yeah. But would they want to leave it in a Thai bank is the question.

I keep a million baht in my Bangkok Bank account. Never had a problem.

[LittleBigMan]

I haven't begun the Retirement Visa process yet but isn't it just much simpler to keep 800 k baht in your bank account than to deal with all this monthly deposit stuff? Pretty sure anyone who has really retired should have 800 k baht that they can leave in a bank.

First, when you live here it is pretty tough to trust the system or the banks. Many have read the stories of money being taken out of accounts these stories are usually put down so you don't hear about it. My concern is the protection it gets like the FDIC here it is something like 100,000 baht, and my generalization is being a Farang although Chinese my standing is raising in this country, particularly at the night venues then topping it off " Made in the USA " it can go a long way if you play it right. LOL. but never heard of a story where it happened to a Thai.

Personally, I've never had a problem opening a bank account first one was in 2000, the big branch on Second Rd, near Soi 6, just walked in and filled out a few forms, and made a deposit. I have two other accounts opened on the Darkside all with Bangkok Bank. Living on the dark side after a while I barely used the original account opened on 2nd Road, years later they started a policy if your balance was below a certain level they took 250 baht each month for service charges by the time I got wind of it the balance was close to zero. I just placed the book away and said why even bother to do them a favor and close it. So today I have two left, one is for the 800,000 baht method which I don't ever touch the other one is with my name only! Reason if you need a new book or card the other party needs to be with you to obtain one. I use to deposit money I send over using Wise. I have an ATM card for this account I'm not worried because the balance isn't much it goes in and it goes out each month. I just go to a branch that has machines outside their branches so you can update your book.

What I noticed for Farang account holders is they put in interest once or twice a year particularly time once a year they take taxes out for that interest. My accountant knows my situation living in Thailand once ask me if I need to report interest from those accounts I told them not necessarily because I'm paying Thai taxes on it nothing was ever mentioned again.

Although I was married I've never turned my retirement into a marriage. To be honest the number of Visa are very confusing there is an Immigration O, then there is an Immigration O-A many get them mixed up. I got the Imm-O and did it with my brother's help here in Pattaya, it was pretty easy. I highly suggest you don't do it in the States, more paperwork, the O-A can only be done in the States that is the one that you have medical insurance. On the surface, they are very similar to me not sure why anyone would want one with their restrictions especially if you are over 50 or retired.

Years back as many know being American, all you had to do was make an appointment at the Embassy for a letter of income of 1600 baht a hour later you had the letter stamp to use at your nearest Immigration office. They never verified the income just raise your hand honor system this I found out really bent the anti-American faction so a few years back the letter was discontinued personally not because the income wasn't verified but because someone wanted a cut of the process. There were millions involved and I mean millions.

So today you have two income methods, To each his own I find if you can put 800,000 baht into an account has to be in only your name find a backup plan if something happens to you the funds can be accessed or it is gone. Personally, a Well isn't going to do you shit especially one abroad even one done in Thailand. It has to be in the account 2 months prior to application and untouched thereafter for 3 months following approval it doesn't matter where it comes from. The income method is very time-consuming it has to be in the Thai account at a specific time and the marking on the deposit has to be a certain way to qualify. Expats that I know that need to use the income method use Wise you can contact wise that you need each month the transferred is marked a certain way on your deposit in your book. It isn't guaranteed they do try but one slip and you are screwed.

Although I could have turned my Imm-O into a marriage like my brother glad I didn't sure one advantage less money in baht and monthly income, the paperwork, having to go down each year to the Amphr and get the certification you still married, for years they came after to make home visits then it takes a good month for you to get your passport back.

If none of this appeals to you one can easily get one here in Pattaya, some call them agents, I know of a place if you want to obtain one year without doing the above. It runs between 12-15,000 baht but there are some drawbacks I know the number of Expat living here for a long time that does this instead of making border runs.

I did this years ago when I was in a sound mind, I can attest I have my shortcoming but I'm as honest as they come if you want to open an account obtain an ATM with that account give it to me to save keep with a letter instructing what and where the money is to go minus any expense I occur but today as I age my wife is even having doubts I remember what day it is?

Good luck thanks for listening but 800,000 is the easy way to do it.

[Chop]

I haven't begun the Retirement Visa process yet but isn't it just much simpler to keep 800 k baht in your bank account than to deal with all this monthly deposit stuff? Pretty sure anyone who has really retired should have 800 k baht that they can leave in a bank.

I didn't want to leave the lump sitting in a Thai bank making 0%, so instead I have it sitting in an American bank at 0. 25% (or some other shit rate. I don't even know what it is, but it's shit.) and hassle with the 65 k Bhat / month. Which is just a long way of saying you're right. Next time my visa comes up I'll be switching over to the 800 k set it and forget it method. I think there are even some, very few and also shit rate, options for interest bearing Thai accounts. I haven't homeworked that bit out myself yet, just repeating rumors, so don't quote me on that. But yeah, stick 800 k in the bank and give Immigration a few docs and a 1900 Bhat a year fee and you'll be looking a good bit smarter than me.

[EihTooms]

I haven't begun the Retirement Visa process yet but isn't it just much simpler to keep 800 k baht in your bank account than to deal with all this monthly deposit stuff? Pretty sure anyone who has really retired should have 800 k baht that they can leave in a bank.

I have never really understood the advantage or need to leave 800 K sitting in a Thai bank account instead of doing the 65 K minimum per month Foreign Transfer.

Are you going to deposit 800 K in that Thai bank to show Immigration that it is there and then draw from it thoughout the year for your living expenses only to need to plow another 800 K in that account again for the minimum number of months before your next visa extention trip to Immigration? Are you going to leave it there untouched doing nothing year after year and make Foreign Transfers from other sources every month or so for your living expenses anyway?

I know I will spend at least 65,000 baht every month while I am living in Thailand. Much more than that. Therefore, I know I will transfer at least that much to my Thai bank account every month. It costs me 200 baht to get a printed statement from my Thai bank to show Immigration that I did that.

What would that 800 K sitting in my Thai bank account all year or year after year be doing for me that it wouldn't be doing more for me invested or spent elsewhere on something else?