American Politics

[CheckMate1]

The injured party did not bring a lawsuit CheckMate. The state of New York did. And the state of New York will receive the award, not the banks.

What party was injured? The banks received interest and principal payments and Trump didn't otherwise default on the loans in question. The banks made money.

Fraud normally requires actual damage to a party to convict. Not New York Executive Law 63 (12) though.

Trump's case wasn't the most egregious brought under the statute. That honor may belong to Exxon. New York sued Exxon for purported damage to shareholders because it failed to disclose the risk to its business from carbon emissions. The fine though would have gone to the state of New York! In other words, Exxon shareholders, who own the company, were supposed to pay the state of New York for the fraud perpetrated on said shareholders by Exxon! It would be like Bernie Madoff's investors dipping into their pockets to pay the government for their money that Bernie lost, except that Exxon didn't defraud anyone. That judgement was overturned on appeal. I expect New York appeals courts will substantially reduce Trump's 455 million fine.

This is where I disagree with you. But one of us will be correct, after the appeals have been adjudicated. And I will say to you, now, if the decision is reversed (not the awarded amount), then I AM WRONG, and you are RIGHT.

[EihTooms]

Man, if you are a Democrat these days, you have to be arrogant as fuck. What did I say about the law? It is not black and white but gray and here you go again Tooms, When I said government could steal your assets as easily as happened with Trump, you made some arrogant comment why it could not happen to you. Now you come up with this complete bullshit that you only mongered in Thailand where it was legal.

First, there is the Mann Act which is still on the books. In its original form, the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". In addition to its stated purpose of preventing human trafficking, the law was used to prosecute unlawful premarital, extramarital, and interracial relationships.

The point is that the USA has the ability to prosecute you even if you are abroad. Congress passed a law stating it was illegal to have sex with a minor even in a foreign land relatively recently.

But you are not engaged in human trafficking right? Yeah, let's look at that definition again: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age.

Despite the fact that everyone here knows you are lying when you say you only have mongered in Thailand, it does not matter. If you show up in court as some senior with an 18 year old girl claiming to have had sex with you because you coerced her with money, you would be found guilty of trafficking before any depositions were even taken.

Has this happened? Not that I am aware of, but then again, the merging and twisting of laws to get Trump was a one time thing as well. When the libertarian part of the Republican party talks of law and order, we are talking about crimes where there is a victim. We cannot stand government prosecuting people for victimless crimes..

When did I ever say I have only mongered in Thailand?

The Mann Act does not apply to me or anything I have ever done in Thailand, in the USA or anywhere else in the world.

Oh, and I have done nothing that the USA could prosecute me for regarding sex for any purpose or with anyone I have had sex with in the 12 years I have lived in Thailand. You want them to violate the Statute of Limitations in order to bust me for mongering in other countries 12+ years ago? And it will probably be 20+ years if or when I ever return to the USA to deal with my California businesses.

Unlike Trump's crimes, the Statute of Limitations for any blow job or fuck I paid for such that the USA would consider it a crime did not get extended that much due to the hold put on the world during Trump's Pandemic. LOL.

Have you got a link to a USA Penal Code number that you think I have violated? Please post it.

[EihTooms]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tru...poll-analysis/

A third of voters believe Biden has the cognitive ability to be president while half believe Trump does, from the above link.

It takes a special kind of nutty to try to steal an American presidential election, but you may be right. Taking into account his mental decline, Biden may be nuttier.

That poll is quite a testament for the effectiveness of the 3 years long Mainstream Media-aided and abetted Repub BS about Biden not being able to string two words together, not knowing who he is, where he is, all those tightly edited video and audio fakes and so on.

Or maybe some of the Dem poll respondents and most of the Repub respondents simply don't know the meaning of the term "cognitive health. ".

After all, anyone with above average "cognitive health" and who at least knows what the term means could not possibly think it takes more of it to defy all expert advise not to lay the foundation for and spend a year exacerbating a historic deadly and economically disastrous pandemic.

Or to spend 2. 5+ Trillion on an economic "stimulus" bill that produced 1 million fewer jobs with it than without it.

Or to get busted for a blatantly obvious Election Fraud scheme to steal an election.

Or to bankrupt some half dozen or more businesses.

Or to repeatedly refer to his #1 Repub Party Primary opponent "Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley, Nikki Haley" as the Democratic Speaker of the House on January 6, 2021.

Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

Than the "cognitive health" as well as the sharp memory, recall and experience needed to brilliantly lead America and the rest of the world in a historic recovery from those Trump / Repub Disasters that has and continues to produce record positive results across the board.

Behold the Republican Party Presidential Candidate's 2024 Election Campaign Platform:

[Elvis 2008]

He really should have hired Elvis and Tiny to defend him in these recent civil and criminal trials.

But Elvis' and Tinys' repeated misrepresentation of what the actual civil awards, indictments and crimes were about are not what would have made them better choices than the attorneys Trump hired and who are no doubt destined to be stiffed on their fees and / or disbarred for whatever additional crime Trump lured them into along the way.

No, it is because it would have been fun to witness them struggling to make it all seem falsely equivalent to engaging in legal P4 P in Thailand or just a long ago misunderstanding about what unwanted and uninvited pussy grabbing and penetration really is in practice or some such nonsense. LOL.

Man, if you are a Democrat these days, you have to be arrogant as fuck. What did I say about the law? It is not black and white but gray and here you go again Tooms, When I said government could steal your assets as easily as happened with Trump, you made some arrogant comment why it could not happen to you. Now you come up with this complete bullshit that you only mongered in Thailand where it was legal.

First, there is the Mann Act which is still on the books. In its original form, the act made it a felony to engage in interstate or foreign commerce transport of "any woman or girl for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose". In addition to its stated purpose of preventing human trafficking, the law was used to prosecute unlawful premarital, extramarital, and interracial relationships.

The point is that the USA has the ability to prosecute you even if you are abroad. Congress passed a law stating it was illegal to have sex with a minor even in a foreign land relatively recently.

But you are not engaged in human trafficking right? Yeah, let's look at that definition again: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act, in which the commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age.

Despite the fact that everyone here knows you are lying when you say you only have mongered in Thailand, it does not matter. If you show up in court as some senior with an 18 year old girl claiming to have had sex with you because you coerced her with money, you would be found guilty of trafficking before any depositions were even taken.

Has this happened? Not that I am aware of, but then again, the merging and twisting of laws to get Trump was a one time thing as well. When the libertarian part of the Republican party talks of law and order, we are talking about crimes where there is a victim. We cannot stand government prosecuting people for victimless crimes.

When you have prosecutors actively campaigning to get Trump, you toss the law out the window. The only way Democrats vote for that is the arrogance that they believe that same legal system will not come after them. You mongers lie and tell yourself you are not doing anything illegal while banging hookers. The arrogance and hypocrisy is astounding.

As Matt Taibbi said, Putin jailed his political opposition using the law as well. That is in the Russian tradition of "show me the man, and I will show you the crime". And yet you Democratic douches rant on and on about saving Democracy while you endorse swat teams raids, endless impeachments, and these bullshit lawfare tactics. Putting your political opposition in jail is the most undemocratic thing I can think of outside of assassination and given Biden is not providing SS protection for RFK Jr, he is free to be accused for wanting RFK Jr assassinated.

Tooms, you are not pro-Democracy. You are wanting one party rule like in China and Russia. You just are under the delusion that this party, your party will not come after you. Oh yeah, government would never seize my assets, would never prosecute me. If the government sees value in doing so, they will find a crime to charge you with. You are not innocent. You are just not worth their time and money.

[EihTooms]

The injured party did not bring a lawsuit CheckMate. The state of New York did. And the state of New York will receive the award, not the banks.

What party was injured? The banks received interest and principal payments and Trump didn't otherwise default on the loans in question. The banks made money.

Fraud normally requires actual damage to a party to convict. Not New York Executive Law 63 (12) though.

Trump's case wasn't the most egregious brought under the statute. That honor may belong to Exxon. New York sued Exxon for purported damage to shareholders because it failed to disclose the risk to its business from carbon emissions. The fine though would have gone to the state of New York! In other words, Exxon shareholders, who own the company, were supposed to pay the state of New York for the fraud perpetrated on said shareholders by Exxon! It would be like Bernie Madoff's investors dipping into their pockets to pay the government for their money that Bernie lost, except that Exxon didn't defraud anyone. That judgement was overturned on appeal. I expect New York appeals courts will substantially reduce Trump's 455 million fine.

As long as you are convinced that lying on loan documents that shift advantageous terms and money to frauds and liars rather than to honest borrowers is a "victimless crime" as long as the liars share their ill-gotten gains, if any, that they cheated the honest borrowers out of with the bank they originally stole it from, you should feel all warm and fuzzy knowing that a self-described multi multi multi Billionaire won't really suffer any meaningful penalty by paying a mere $455 Million fine for doing it.

No real "victim" on either side, right?

[Elvis 2008]

Elvis, your inbox is full.

Good post about confidential records. I haven't been able to reply because I can't get on the site with my pc, only with my phone, so am confining myself to short replies to our Democrat friends whose posts weren't as substantial as yours. Will be back in due course. That was a very interesting Bloomberg article.

I cleaned up my inbox.

[Tiny 12]

There was no definitive proof but that is what an investigation would have been for. Anyway, an investigation into that is never going to happen.

Elvis, your inbox is full.

Good post about confidential records. I haven't been able to reply because I can't get on the site with my pc, only with my phone, so am confining myself to short replies to our Democrat friends whose posts weren't as substantial as yours. Will be back in due course. That was a very interesting Bloomberg article.

[Tiny 12]

After a cursory search I didn't find any evidence that "the majority of Americans" believes "Biden is more senile than Trump" while "Trump is nuttier than Biden. " By the way, that's a cute choice of words because senility always means a mental condition, while "nuttiness" can mean a variety of things including some positive character traits.

The problem with your assessment is that thousands of mental health professionals seem to strongly disagree with you.

As for the second part of your post, it leaves me baffled. Why even bother voting for Oliver when according to your own logic, your vote won't count. Like won't count at all because his chance of becoming president is precisely zero?

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/tru...poll-analysis/

A third of voters believe Biden has the cognitive ability to be president while half believe Trump does, from the above link.

It takes a special kind of nutty to try to steal an American presidential election, but you may be right. Taking into account his mental decline, Biden may be nuttier.

[Tiny 12]

Unless Tiny lives in a definite No Toss Up blue or red state, his Third Party, No Party or Write-in vote will essentially be for Trump, as he well knows. Under that same scenario, if he chooses not to vote at all he will essentially be voting for Trump. And he knows that very well, too.

Yeah, yeah, some argument can be made that such a vote might actually help Biden more than Trump. But not likely. Not by most Battleground State calculations at least.

In Winger World, nobody votes for a Third Party, No Party, a Write-in or chooses not to vote at all if they honestly believe there is even a 1 in 1000 chance their doing so will result in a Dem winning. And most definitely not if it means Biden winning over Trump. That is not happening in Winger World.

Except for my homeowner's association, my single vote is EXTREMELY unlikely to decide an election. As such I will vote for Truth, Justice and the American Way. For the Libertarian. For Chase Oliver, "armed and gay. ".

[Tiny 12]

This is how civil lawsuits work. The injured party brings a lawsuit against the accused. If the injured party proves their case in court, they will be awarded damages. A secondary court hearing determines the amount of award. Both sides present their case as how much based on what the law allows, experts testimony on the losses, and punitive assessment to deter the loser of case, as well as diswaying future bad actors from conducting business in unlawful maner.

All this leads back to what I said the previous post. Bring your A game to court with evidence and win the case, instead of crying about it, or make excuses AFTER you lose.

The banks could have gone after DJT as well, if they feel they were injured directly. I think this aspect is what some people hold onto. "Oh, the banks didn't feel they were cheated. " If you take the amount of resources to sue DJT, with all the delay tactics used, it may not be a wise use of money especially when you have deliver quarterly earnings to your shareholders. These are financial decisions by the banks, nothing more.

The injured party did not bring a lawsuit CheckMate. The state of New York did. And the state of New York will receive the award, not the banks.

What party was injured? The banks received interest and principal payments and Trump didn't otherwise default on the loans in question. The banks made money.

Fraud normally requires actual damage to a party to convict. Not New York Executive Law 63 (12) though.

Trump's case wasn't the most egregious brought under the statute. That honor may belong to Exxon. New York sued Exxon for purported damage to shareholders because it failed to disclose the risk to its business from carbon emissions. The fine though would have gone to the state of New York! In other words, Exxon shareholders, who own the company, were supposed to pay the state of New York for the fraud perpetrated on said shareholders by Exxon! It would be like Bernie Madoff's investors dipping into their pockets to pay the government for their money that Bernie lost, except that Exxon didn't defraud anyone. That judgement was overturned on appeal. I expect New York appeals courts will substantially reduce Trump's 455 million fine.

[CheckMate1]

The most egregious may have been the $455 million that Trump was fined by the state of New York for violating New York Executive Law 63 (12). There's no doubt he violated the law, which enables prosecutors to charge any New York business or businessman with fraud. But the magnitude of the fine was ridiculous given the banks knew Trump was lying on his statements of financial condition and loaned him money anyway. And Trump never defaulted on the terms of the loans in question. He made all the principal and interest payments and the banks made money. Finally, none of the money will go to the banks that allegedly were defrauded. Rather all of it will go into the coffers of the State of New York. And that's one of the main reasons for the existence of New York Executive Law 63 (12), to enable the state to grab assets from businesses and businessmen.

This is how civil lawsuits work. The injured party brings a lawsuit against the accused. If the injured party proves their case in court, they will be awarded damages. A secondary court hearing determines the amount of award. Both sides present their case as how much based on what the law allows, experts testimony on the losses, and punitive assessment to deter the loser of case, as well as diswaying future bad actors from conducting business in unlawful maner.

All this leads back to what I said the previous post. Bring your A game to court with evidence and win the case, instead of crying about it, or make excuses AFTER you lose.

The banks could have gone after DJT as well, if they feel they were injured directly. I think this aspect is what some people hold onto. "Oh, the banks didn't feel they were cheated. " If you take the amount of resources to sue DJT, with all the delay tactics used, it may not be a wise use of money especially when you have deliver quarterly earnings to your shareholders. These are financial decisions by the banks, nothing more.

[EihTooms]

Now, why can't Trump or any other Repub do this rather than produce all the Great Depressions, Great Recessions and Massive Jobs Destruction of the past 100 years?

And after outgoing Dem presidents hand them much, much better economic conditions than any outgoing Repub ever handed an incoming Dem.

Is it because they just don't want to? I'm beginning to think that is the only possible reason. I mean, damn, not even in 100 years!

Record-Breaking Accomplishments On Jobs And Unemployment Under Biden.
June 7, 2024

https://www.forbes.com/sites/richard...t-under-biden/

The May jobs and unemployment report is out today, and it shows a continuing strong economy. The Biden Administrations robust and durable track record on jobs and unemployment is breaking records, putting up some of the best results weve seen in half a century.
.........
Bidens economic track record is particularly strong when you consider that many economists were expecting a recession by now. Former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers spoke for many economists in 2022, saying a recession was almost inevitable, while in 2023 Summers predicted a meaningful and significant slowdown for the economy, again like many other forecasters.
...........
Economists like James K. Galbraith of the University of Texas argue that both growth and recession are driven in substantial part by policy choices, and intelligent policy can help avoid downturns.

Bidens policies have focused not only on sustaining overall growth, but on finding ways to get growths benefits to lower-wage workers and economically troubled regions of the country. Based on todays jobs and employment numbers, so far, so good.

[EihTooms]

Right you are Tooms. Sending 10 million illegals back to Latin America when unemployment is sub 4% is insane. I favor moving illegals into a guest worker program that would not confer citizenship. And expanding legal immigration of the best and the brightest.

Many Democrats favor conferring citizenship on immigrants who didn't enter through normal channels, because they believe the immigrants will vote for Democrats. They may be mistaken. A large number of the people coming now are refugees from Cuba and Venezuela. They've seen first hand how big, overbearing government works, and they don't like it.

I prefer this explanation from your article.

Moodys Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi reckons that part of what drove inflation higher in Republican-leaning states was housingespecially with so many people moving South after the pandemic started.

You saw significant out-migration from the Northeast and the West Coast to the South and the Mountain West that tend to be more Republican, he said. Rents, in particular, shot higher, and rents and rent-derived measures count for about a third of the spending basket the Labor Department uses to calculate inflation..

Nah, let's give Larry Summers and Jason Furman a dual MVP Award for Most Valuable Players in Terrorizing Repubs Into Wishing Higher and Longer Inflation Into Existence.

Thank God Biden and the Dems in Congress were not susceptible to that silly terrorism or we very likely would be suffering another Great Repub Global Depression to this day. Instead, Bidenomics totally averted so much as a global recession. And we only experienced a transitory spike in Trump Pandemic's inflation that peaked and fell as fast and sharply as it rose.

But we all would have seen a lower peak and a lower current rate today if only Summers, Furman, Trump and Fux News had not demanded the suckers believing their clearly inaccurate assessment and forecast of doom had not in turn terrorized their local grocery stores, gas stations, malls and landlords into raising prices sooner and higher than necessary in order to get ahead of the huge looming inflation catastrophe they invented in their minds.

[Tiny 12]

As part of our ongoing series to answer the question, "Are Americans Too Dumb To Understand The Economy"?

This just in:

How immigrants are helping keep job growth hot while inflation cools.
June 17, 2024

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/17/immi...ndroidappshare

Right you are Tooms. Sending 10 million illegals back to Latin America when unemployment is sub 4% is insane. I favor moving illegals into a guest worker program that would not confer citizenship. And expanding legal immigration of the best and the brightest.

Many Democrats favor conferring citizenship on immigrants who didn't enter through normal channels, because they believe the immigrants will vote for Democrats. They may be mistaken. A large number of the people coming now are refugees from Cuba and Venezuela. They've seen first hand how big, overbearing government works, and they don't like it.

Also, it's too bad the dumbest Americans regarding the economy, Trump voters in Red states, caused inflation to go so high and stay higher longer than it would have if only they had not "expected" inflation to do that.

If Red State / Trumpsters had not done that, this research study endorsed even by the Winger-ownd WSJ concluded that inflation would have topped out at a mere 5% and today would be 1. 7%.

Trump Voters Dont Just Expect Higher InflationThey Get It Too.
There has always been a difference between how Republicans and Democrats view the economy. But the gap has gotten bigger.
May 25, 2024

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/...-data-14800c1e

I prefer this explanation from your article.

Moodys Analytics chief economist Mark Zandi reckons that part of what drove inflation higher in Republican-leaning states was housingespecially with so many people moving South after the pandemic started.

You saw significant out-migration from the Northeast and the West Coast to the South and the Mountain West that tend to be more Republican, he said. Rents, in particular, shot higher, and rents and rent-derived measures count for about a third of the spending basket the Labor Department uses to calculate inflation.

People left blue states, looking for better opportunities in red states. Demand for goods, services and housing went up in red states, while it stagnated in blue states. That's a recipe for higher inflation in red states. Now there's nothing wrong with that. People who prefer higher taxes, greater equality at the expense of lower prosperity, more government services, and net zero carbon emissions should congregate in blue states and cities. And leave the rest of us alone.

And as to inflationary expectations, it sounds like the Republican man on the street was right. The Fed and the Biden Administration thought inflation was transient back around mid-year 2021. Well, they were wrong. The Republicans, Larry Summers and Jason Furman were right.

[EihTooms]

As part of our ongoing series to answer the question, "Are Americans Too Dumb To Understand The Economy"?

This just in:

How immigrants are helping keep job growth hot while inflation cools.
June 17, 2024

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/06/17/immi...ndroidappshare

Immigration has helped the U.S. job market sustain a fiery run in recent months without reigniting inflation, economists and analysts say.

The U.S. economy added a whopping 272,000 jobs in May, but the consumer price index was unchanged.

This dynamic a hot job market and cooling inflation is in part the result of increased inflows of immigrants.

Recent spikes in immigration at the southern border and elsewhere in the U.S. have helped to keep the labor pool full even as job gains kept apace.
........
Immigration both authorized and unauthorized has helped the U.S. job market sustain a fiery run in recent months without reigniting inflation, economists and analysts say. The effect has been a favorable, though uncertain, situation for President Joe Biden ahead of the November election.

Also, it's too bad the dumbest Americans regarding the economy, Trump voters in Red states, caused inflation to go so high and stay higher longer than it would have if only they had not "expected" inflation to do that.

If Red State / Trumpsters had not done that, this research study endorsed even by the Winger-ownd WSJ concluded that inflation would have topped out at a mere 5% and today would be 1. 7%.

Trump Voters Dont Just Expect Higher InflationThey Get It Too.
There has always been a difference between how Republicans and Democrats view the economy. But the gap has gotten bigger.
May 25, 2024

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/...-data-14800c1e

Republicans right now think inflation is a much bigger problem than Democrats do, and a lot of that is just politics. But heres another possibility: Many of the places Republicans live indeed have had significantly higher inflation than Democratic enclaves.

In new research, economists Carola Binder, Rupal Kamdar and Jane Ryngaert examined Labor Department inflation figures for U.S. metropolitan areas, and compared them with voting data. Their finding: Metro areas with more Republicans and independent voters tended to have higher inflation in 2022 than places where Democrats...