General Reports

[SubCmdr]

THB getting stronger against the USD. Yearly high was: 37.21. Now: 34.26.

Holla!

[EihTooms]

Nahhh. It is just the NGOs and their bullshit stories once again. One would have to wonder why when these people "rescue" prostitutes, it is never one that was doing it of their own free will. For some reason every hooker they come in contact with was trafficked and made to do it.

I would add the propensity for Thais to play word games to the bloody death and the ever present "Face Saving" cultural characteristic as co-culprits in this confusion, in their supposedly not knowing their rights with regard to P4 P between consenting adults being legal in Thailand.

You know how we mongers eventually figure out that Thai girls will say anything and keep saying if they think it is either what we want to hear or if their saying it simply smooths out the moment and we'll drop the topic? Actually, Thai men do it too. They say "ok" to stuff they have no intention of doing but in their mind "ok" only means,"I hear you", nothing to do with "yes". But they know WE think they are saying Yes. LOL.

To get a Thai girl, P4 P or not, sometimes taxi drivers, restaurant servers, Information Desk staff, you name it, male or female, to really confirm the answer to your question is accurately Yes or accurately No you might have to ask them a half dozen different ways until you have totally exhausted their ability or interest in evading the question they either don't know or don't want to answer or just telling you whatever answer will make you go away happy.

The Thai Penal Code and any other edict that has been passed over the years related to prostitution is no different. It is certainly WRITTEN in such a way that unless you are a stubborn stickler for accurate details and truly need or want to know the accurate truth of it, you can be easily misled into believing it is telling you however many which goofy ways that "prostitution between consenting adults is illegal" even though there is absolutely nothing of the kind said anywhere in the wording of the Code or the Act.

They obviously want us to THINK they are saying it is illegal just as the bargirl wants us to THINK "ok" means "Yes, I will suck your dick and swallow every drop of your cum" when all it really means is I hear you, I know you want me to say Yes, but there is no way in hell I am going to even provide a CIM finish but if I tell you that here and now you will not pay the barfine and I will not have a shot at making you pay me the full agreed upon 2,000 baht or at least 1,500 baht in the room anyway.

Word games.

Now, on to good ol' Thai "Face Saving". I believe the social stigma and shame associated with earning money for providing sex is so great outside of the tight circle of bars, shops, clubs and strolls where it is practiced (however pervasive it is in various forms throught this and other cultures) is so great that most Thais "feel" as though it must be illegal. And, if anything, that being identified as a "sex worker" is even WORSE than committing an official crime. For the most part, their relatives, friends and neighbors would certainly consider it "illegal" in their world. I'm talking about P4 P where a girl has full on sex with a total stranger for cash this hour. And especially where farang total strangers are involved.

None of them have read any part of the Thai Penal Code or any other Act so they just assume the social vibe about it is the technical reality of it.

In keeping with that "Face Saving" characteristic, the Codes and Laws actually on the books regarding prostitution are very much focused on not producing any "evidence" of it happening, not making it "evident" that is what is being offered, negotiated, sold, bought, transacted and committed right here and now in this public place for all to see and hear.

[Mr Enternational]

Quotes are from the article with a date of 2 June 2024 0615. I wonder why regular Thai people in Thailand do not know their rights? What is generating this fear of the police? The individuals having the academic discussion of the law are not addressing the issues that appear in this article. I got no dog in this fight.

Nahhh. It is just the NGOs and their bullshit stories once again. One would have to wonder why when these people "rescue" prostitutes, it is never one that was doing it of their own free will. For some reason every hooker they come in contact with was trafficked and made to do it.

[SubCmdr]

Sex workers in Bangkok say they feel unsafe as they cannot report cases of assault to the police without fear of being prosecuted for prostitution.

Ms Surang said she knows of many sex workers who have been assaulted while working.

"If clients pay money, they think they can do everything," she said.

One night, she received a call from a sex worker who was afraid to speak to the police, fearing she would be arrested. "A client had put a glass beer bottle inside her vagina. ".

However, Ms Surang estimates the actual number to be much higher due to sex workers being unable to report assaults to the authorities.

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...kers-in-peril.

Quotes are from the article with a date of 2 June 2024 0615. I wonder why regular Thai people in Thailand do not know their rights? What is generating this fear of the police? The individuals having the academic discussion of the law are not addressing the issues that appear in this article. I got no dog in this fight.

Do not kill the messenger!

[EihTooms]

If a law is currently not being enforced. What exactly is the point of the law?

For some people in Thailand the laws covering prostitution is is not an academic discussion between individuals who have access to first hand legal info. For some people the law has real effects on events that happen, in the suites, the streets, hotel rooms and privately owned rooms here in Thailand.

Example

One night, she received a call from a sex worker who was afraid to speak to the police, fearing she would be arrested. "A client had put a glass beer bottle inside her vagina."

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...rkers-in-peril

If I may add another point on this; the people such as the crusader with whatever agenda she has in mind referenced in that report and anyone else who perpetuates the unsubstantiated ideas that Up is Down, that the Sun sets in the East or that prostitution between consenting adults is illegal in Thailand are more responsible than they are willing to tell themselves for that prostitute being afraid to go to the police to report an assault, a theft or anything else related to her perfectly legal right to engage in P4 P in Thailand.

Furthermore, any punters who hear, read and believe that gross inaccuracy are also going to be afraid to report a theft or assault by a prostitute, right?

The Thai police who have for decades been responding to prostitute and customer complaints about real crimes being committed against them during or as the result of a legal act of P4 P are not "aiding and betting the commission of a crime" by doing so and they are fully aware of it.

Instead of trying to terrorize prostitutes and their customers into believing they are powerless to complain about any real crime perpetrated against them while they are engaged in something for which there is no criminal code or charge to be found, they ought to be trying to dispel such nonsense whenever and wherever they can.

To do otherwise benefits no one and, as we see in that report, can do serious harm to the prostitutes and customers who believe them.

[EihTooms]

If a law is currently not being enforced. What exactly is the point of the law?

For some people in Thailand the laws covering prostitution is is not an academic discussion between individuals who have access to first hand legal info. For some people the law has real effects on events that happen, in the suites, the streets, hotel rooms and privately owned rooms here in Thailand.

Example

One night, she received a call from a sex worker who was afraid to speak to the police, fearing she would be arrested. "A client had put a glass beer bottle inside her vagina."

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...rkers-in-peril

In Thailand, according to the Criminal Code, anyone over the age of 16 who "subsists on earnings as a prostitute" will be imprisoned for seven to 20 years and fined from 14,000 baht to 40,000 baht. Those who coerce others to work as prostitutes may face life imprisonment.
........
Friends of mine in the industry have been punched and hit by clients," he said. "Clients have even taken off condoms."
........
"An agency I used to work for withheld 75,000 baht from me," he said, adding he did not file a police report as he feared he would be arrested for prostitution.

Oscar said if prostitution was decriminalised, there would be fewer instances of workers being exploited.

What is described herein does not make the act of prostitution between consenting adults illegal according to anything stated or implied in the Thai Penal Code or the Prostitution Prevention and Suppression Act of 1996, no matter how much bullying by neighbors or employers and fear of intimidation by police they might endure.

Many are unaware of this, but there was an even earlier edict enacted that has been on the books even longer than the Prevention and Suppression Act to protect sex workers from penalty, including involving police response if necessary, should they chose for any reason to request a condom be used by their customer. Which, effectively, fully acknowledged and accepted that sex work is legitimate work operating within the law and not in itself illegal and that sex work establishments are "legal" enough to warrant government oversight and regulations rather than merely be shut down:

Evaluation of the 100% Condom Programme in Thailand.

https://www.comminit.com/hiv-aids/co...ramme-thailand

This initiative drew on the observation that sex work establishments requiring condom use or sex workers insisting on condom use would often lose clients and money to those who did not. In response, a collaborative effort was developed among local authorities, public health officers, sex establishment owners, and sex workers to ensure that clients could not purchase sexual services without condom use in the province.

As reported here, despite initial doubt that such a programme would really make it impossible to purchase sex without a condom, earlier studies reviewed here found that the pilot programme, as initiated in Ratchaburi province, was (in combination with other prevention efforts) very effective at discouraging unprotected intercourse in establishment-based sex work; sexually transmitted infection (STI) rates were found to have dropped quickly and significantly. Noting this success, efforts were made to make this programme national policy; the programme was institutionalised within existing national policy and health infrastructures with strong involvement of people at all levels (national, regional, provincial, and district). By mid-1992, all provinces reported that the 100% Condom Programme was in place.

A number of communication approaches were used to support this effort; they are detailed in this report. For example, in Phuket, the Provincial Public Health Office (PPHO) worked closely with police in visiting sex establishments and encouraging the owners to cooperate. Other activities included having condoms available in every hotel room, providing 100-baht health vouchers to sex workers, displaying stickers and posters advocating condom use, and holding meetings among sex establishment owners and sex workers to provide information on STIs, HIV/AIDS, and proper condom use.

This is not the behavior of a government or law enforcement network that considers sex work to be "illegal" from the get-go. And why would they? There is nothing in the law that cites or determines it to be illegal.

Flaunting it "shamelessly" and "open" in ways that create a "public nuisance" as well as other peripheral spin offs of P4 P, yes, illegal. P4 P among consenting adults, no, not illegal.

[SubCmdr]

If a law is currently not being enforced. What exactly is the point of the law?

For some people in Thailand the laws covering prostitution is is not an academic discussion between individuals who have access to first hand legal info. For some people the law has real effects on events that happen, in the suites, the streets, hotel rooms and privately owned rooms here in Thailand.

Example

One night, she received a call from a sex worker who was afraid to speak to the police, fearing she would be arrested. "A client had put a glass beer bottle inside her vagina."

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand...rkers-in-peril

[LittleBigMan]

Have you tried using the online 90 Days Residence Report option? It is the one I use every time now. Takes about 5 minutes or less to fill out the form and submit it online. Sometimes it doesn't work for me but most of the time it does.

And I understand it does not work for everyone. I will say that the initial app they set up for it never worked for me. But then they switched to the option to do it on their website and that has worked well for me. It can be translated into English, of course:

https://www.immigration.go.th/?page_id=1666

For you or anyone else who might be interested, I will say that it is a bit of a pain to register the first time, one time only, in order to get it set up. Not because the questions are hard but because you kind of have to scroll down, around and click this and that until you finally land in the area to get started. But once you are registered and are allowed to submit it online it is quite easy after that.

Every 90 days, 5 minutes after going to the website I have submitted the form without even getting out of bed. Soon after submission, within 2-3 hours, I will get an email notification that they received the form and will review it and that I will get a Yes or No on its acceptance in the next 3 days. So it is best to do this online version 14-15 days before it is due.

Set a smartphone calender app notification. That way if you do get a "Your Submission was rejected" email response with perhaps a further notice to "Please submit this in person at your nearest Immigration Office", you will still be within that "no more than 15 days before and no less than 7 days before" window to head over there in person.

They SAY that they will send you an email notication for when the next one is due. Maybe they will and maybe they won't. I got lulled into complacency that I would get that notification and didn't get one. Consequently, I was late in reporting, it would not be accepted online, I had to go in personally and was fined 2,000 baht. Set your own calender app notification.

Tips for avoiding getting the dreaded "Your Submission was rejected" email response:

- Make sure your full name, address, passport number, etc is exactly the same as you set it up at registration and submitted it last time. Take a screen shot of how it looked, the spelling and wording of the address and all that as you will see it before submitting it the first time and, if successful, do it that way every time until something does change like your "entry date into the Kingdom" after international travel or whatever.

- If you have an apartment or condo unit number in your address, make sure you add it to your overall address as, for example, "apartment 203" or "condo unit 203", not as #203. You know, for some Thai addresses, the apartment or condo unit number is in the first street / soi address you enter, right? Such as "71/203 Soi 33 Sukhumvit Road", where the 203 is your apartment or condo unit number. That is NOT enough to satisfy them that they have your apartment or condo unit number. It is ok to enter it that way but also add the words "apartment 203" or "condo unit 203" after the Soi 33 or Sukhimvit Road part. They will not assume that "71/203" is telling them your apartment or condo unit number and they might reject your form Submission on that basis without explanation.

I did not find out that is why one of my early online submissions was rejected until I asked the lady at the 90 Days Residence window at Immigration. And she had to dig deep into her computer program to figure it out herself.

- The instructions on the form say the usual bit about how only the boxes with a red * (asterisk) are required fields to fill in. They lied. The box asking for your phone number does not have a red * in it. But if you don't enter your phone number in that box your form will be rejected. Again, that was explained to me by the lady at that Immigration window after my first online submission got rejected because of it.

Good luck. Hope this helps anyone interested in trying the online submission option for that form. Even if it works just 80% of the time it is worth giving it a try, imo.

I've use old system been register since the new one came about 22?

As you noted once register is pretty easy. In the two years since you get a noticed that your 90 days is coming 15 days before and 7 days after.

Some have problems those I havelinked to them not turning their VPN off so they are applying in Thailand, I've not ever been reject until this year. Reason given when leaving and returning next report must be done in person!

In Jomtien, the required docs is copy of front pages passport, last entry sp, and TM30, note since the system was so call upgraded a few months back reporting wasnt the required case last year after returning my first report Online was accepted.

There is also a website for TM30 need to set up account and upload docs.

[EihTooms]

I see your reason I've not done research on that Visa, I'm not up that having such a Visa or extension would bypass not reporting your 90 day? Which in your case coming and going all the time would avoid majoroty of the time. As for TM30, as long as you hold an Imm-o, reporting when arrival 72 hours isn't necessary if one goes back to same residemce.

I just two weeks ago did my 5 years again, still require to go Immigration for Resident certificate and. No service is provided unless one has an updated TM30.

The so call new 90 day improve system is now linked to the TM30 website which for whatever reason whenever returning to Thailand stay long enough with your reset date can't do a report online any longer got to go down and do it personally.

Have you tried using the online 90 Days Residence Report option? It is the one I use every time now. Takes about 5 minutes or less to fill out the form and submit it online. Sometimes it doesn't work for me but most of the time it does.

And I understand it does not work for everyone. I will say that the initial app they set up for it never worked for me. But then they switched to the option to do it on their website and that has worked well for me. It can be translated into English, of course:

https://www.immigration.go.th/?page_id=1666

For you or anyone else who might be interested, I will say that it is a bit of a pain to register the first time, one time only, in order to get it set up. Not because the questions are hard but because you kind of have to scroll down, around and click this and that until you finally land in the area to get started. But once you are registered and are allowed to submit it online it is quite easy after that.

Every 90 days, 5 minutes after going to the website I have submitted the form without even getting out of bed. Soon after submission, within 2-3 hours, I will get an email notification that they received the form and will review it and that I will get a Yes or No on its acceptance in the next 3 days. So it is best to do this online version 14-15 days before it is due.

Set a smartphone calender app notification. That way if you do get a "Your Submission was rejected" email response with perhaps a further notice to "Please submit this in person at your nearest Immigration Office", you will still be within that "no more than 15 days before and no less than 7 days before" window to head over there in person.

They SAY that they will send you an email notication for when the next one is due. Maybe they will and maybe they won't. I got lulled into complacency that I would get that notification and didn't get one. Consequently, I was late in reporting, it would not be accepted online, I had to go in personally and was fined 2,000 baht. Set your own calender app notification.

Tips for avoiding getting the dreaded "Your Submission was rejected" email response:

- Make sure your full name, address, passport number, etc is exactly the same as you set it up at registration and submitted it last time. Take a screen shot of how it looked, the spelling and wording of the address and all that as you will see it before submitting it the first time and, if successful, do it that way every time until something does change like your "entry date into the Kingdom" after international travel or whatever.

- If you have an apartment or condo unit number in your address, make sure you add it to your overall address as, for example, "apartment 203" or "condo unit 203", not as #203. You know, for some Thai addresses, the apartment or condo unit number is in the first street / soi address you enter, right? Such as "71/203 Soi 33 Sukhumvit Road", where the 203 is your apartment or condo unit number. That is NOT enough to satisfy them that they have your apartment or condo unit number. It is ok to enter it that way but also add the words "apartment 203" or "condo unit 203" after the Soi 33 or Sukhimvit Road part. They will not assume that "71/203" is telling them your apartment or condo unit number and they might reject your form Submission on that basis without explanation.

I did not find out that is why one of my early online submissions was rejected until I asked the lady at the 90 Days Residence window at Immigration. And she had to dig deep into her computer program to figure it out herself.

- The instructions on the form say the usual bit about how only the boxes with a red * (asterisk) are required fields to fill in. They lied. The box asking for your phone number does not have a red * in it. But if you don't enter your phone number in that box your form will be rejected. Again, that was explained to me by the lady at that Immigration window after my first online submission got rejected because of it.

Good luck. Hope this helps anyone interested in trying the online submission option for that form. Even if it works just 80% of the time it is worth giving it a try, imo.

[LittleBigMan]

Getting a 5 year license instead of the 2 year one and not having to run down to immigration to report everytime I come into the country.

I see your reason I've not done research on that Visa, I'm not up that having such a Visa or extension would bypass not reporting your 90 day? Which in your case coming and going all the time would avoid majoroty of the time. As for TM30, as long as you hold an Imm-o, reporting when arrival 72 hours isn't necessary if one goes back to same residemce.

I just two weeks ago did my 5 years again, still require to go Immigration for Resident certificate and. No service is provided unless one has an updated TM30.

The so call new 90 day improve system is now linked to the TM30 website which for whatever reason whenever returning to Thailand stay long enough with your reset date can't do a report online any longer got to go down and do it personally.

[SubCmdr]

Getting a 5 year license instead of the 2 year one and not having to run down to immigration to report everytime I come into the country.

My time is way to valuable for that I got people and it costs me less than than the average lady drink (if you buy them). I drop it off at my agency office pay 100 THB and come back and pick it up the next day. Ok, ok, the baht bus ride costs me 40 THB round trip. But I always run other errands too, get a massage, have lunch, get my dick sucked or all of the above.

[Stykler]

Are you wrong about everything? Why do you answer when you don't know the correct answer?

There has actually been some research done into this. It's called "Relevance Deprivation Syndrome". Pretty sad state of affairs for those afflicted with it.

[Mr Enternational]

Curious, why all of a sudden concern about long term visa when rules are so lacks?

Getting a 5 year license instead of the 2 year one and not having to run down to immigration to report everytime I come into the country.

[LittleBigMan]

Curious, why all of a sudden concern about long term visa when rules are so lacks?

[Mr Enternational]

I'm not positive I'll be in Thailand for several months but part of me is considering applying for a DTV now before they take it away.

Exactly. Get in on the ground floor while the getting is good.