American Politics

[MarquisdeSade1]

Has somebody in this forum defended the cold-blooded "2nd Amendment Remedy" shooting and killing of Charlie Kirk?

If so, I must have missed it. Please quote the exact passages and statements supporting your accusation.

Thank you.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2025/...ed-the-normal/

Ross Douthat.

Opinion.

Why the Kirk Assassination Is a Warning to the Left.

Sept. 16,2025, 5:00 pm ET.

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Credit. Illustration by Sam Whitney / The New York Times; source images by soleg, Baac3 nes and Westend61/ Getty Images.

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Ross Douthat.

By Ross Douthat.

Opinion Columnist.

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In an impassioned speech on Charlie Kirk's podcast on Monday, Vice President JD Vance argued that the American left has a much stronger propensity than the right to justify or celebrate political violence.

Like most people with an internet connection, I have seen many more people than I would like justifying assassination in the last few days. If you argue about politics for a living, and especially if you regularly stand up to make conservative arguments in public spaces, it is very hard not to take this extremely personally, to feel that a veil has been lifted and something generally threatening has been exposed.

At the same time, I would not exactly agree with the vice president's framing. The polling he cites, showing that liberals are more likely than conservatives to justify taking joy in the death of an opponent, may capture something real (more on that below), but polling is sensitive to question-framing and to political fluctuations, and you don't have to hunt far to find polls from the Biden era showing greater Republican sympathy for violence.

If I were going to generalize aggressively, I would suggest that the American left is more likely to support and make excuses for the kind of protest politics that can lead to rioting and a breakdown of civil order, and more likely to support deplatforming efforts that depend for their effectiveness on the fear that a speaker might end up assaulted. (This is, again, a generalization; I acknowledge that the right can riot and de-platform as well.).

But when it comes to politically motivated murder, extreme-right and neo-Nazi shooters are all too commonplace. And as I have argued many times before, a great many recent assassins and mass shooters don't fit neatly into normal partisan categories, and our age of anxiety is creating monsters that defy ideological description.

Based on what we know so far, however, it looks as though Kirk's assassin probably does have legible, left-wing motivations. And if those motivations aren't proof of where the left stands right now, they still might offer a warning about where its radical fringe could go.

Even if many assassins aren't normal political actors, there are periods in American life when a wave of violence is linked to a specific ideological disposition. We saw this happen on the left within living memory — in the 1970's, when acts of far-left terrorism became an everyday feature of American life. (If you doubt that description, the book to read is Bryan Burrough's 2015 history, "Days of Rage. "

Looking back on that era, left-wing radicalization seemed to follow from dashed utopian expectations — the peak of Great Society liberalism giving way to crisis and backlash, the belief that the New Left could renew and rule America yielding to the reality that Richard Nixon's voters really were the silent majority. From this realization came a surfeit of apocalyptic thinking, radicalism flavored by despair, all of it worsened by the era's social chaos and drug culture.

Our moment is different, but there are echoes of the 1960's and 1970's in the recent experience of American progressivism. A belief in a nearly inevitable leftward arc of history, a guaranteed multiracial Democratic majority, giving way to the repeated shocks of the populist era. A period of extraordinary cultural influence, of revolutionary zeal joined to institutional power, that peaked in 2020 and 2021 and has been dissolving ever since. An insistence that the election of 2024 had existential stakes, that democracy itself was on the ballot, followed by resounding defeat. A backdrop of apocalyptic fears, fear of climate change above all, amid a technological transformation that has left many young people unmoored from family and friendship.

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As a longtime of observer of progressivism from the near outside, I have never seen it quite so anxious and adrift — so fearful of the future, so uncertain about its own goals, so existentially anxious and bunkered down. To the extent that polls showing a greater left-wing willingness to take joy in an opponent's death ring true, it's as especially toxic manifestations of this bunker mentality; they fit with the surveys showing that progressives are more likely to cut off friends and family over political differences.

And they also dovetail with the data showing greater depression and anxiety among young liberals and falling progressive birthrates relative to conservatives. It's all part of the same darkening trajectory.

I have been writing about these trends lately because I think they are bad in and of themselves, and progressives (and not only progressives!) should be concerned about them independently of whether they lead to radicalism and violence.

But despair feeding further violence seems like a real possibility, a plausible escalation from where we are right now. And if so, progressives themselves need a pre-emptive response. Here I don't have in mind just the (welcome) statements from prominent Democrats condemning Kirk's assassination. I mean something more in the realm of moral and philosophical imagination, something that addresses the hard questions hanging over the left in 2025.

How do you love your country when it's governed by a man you hate? Can love and friendship coexist with profound political divisions? What makes life worth living if the course of history isn't what you thought? If everything feels like power relations, and power has slipped from your fingers, where can you find the good, the beautiful, the true? What makes humanity a blessing on the world rather than a blight?

Even if we aren't headed back to the 1970's, even if Kirk's assassination isn't a harbinger, in answering these questions progressivism will find something essential: a reason for hope, and a cure for its despair.

[MarquisdeSade1]

It's not as bad as you make it out to be. Inflation is under 3%, not great, but no where near the levels under Biden. Stock market is up. Real Estate prices remain high, not much selling, but that is going to reverse overnight once interest rates drop. It is not the booming economy of Trump 2016, but its not like anyone lost any money. If you followed the news, they would have you believe next great depression is coming. Fake news.

The market has cycles and it is extremely overpriced right now and way way overdue for a correction and Tokyo Rose et al will blame Our Lord and Savior of course.

[RamDavidson84]

With the all the talk and dumbass identity politics, from the Fuhrer's MAGA suckers who are all talking about "...going woke is going broke, I'll definitely give them credit about one thing,...American's are going broke, under a MAGA Fuhrer's shit-show Admin, that is!

Whether you're a Dem or Repub, liberal or conservative, small business owner or farmer, the never ending grifting, con job and "The Great American MAGA Swindle", by the MAGA Fuhrer, is here to pickpocket and make broke hard working Americans.

The latest grifts in defiance of the USA Constitution's Emoluments Clauses:

The New Yorker: The NUMBER - How much is Trump pocketting off the presidency? and New Yorker Mag Reveals Trump Family's Frenzy to Cash In on the White House, Aug 11th, 2025.

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpNe45_-XWY AND https://www.democracynow.org/2025/8/20/trump_profit.

Meanwhile their MAGA Fuhrer, continues to enrich himself and his family (from a net worth of under a billion, to 5 billion and then 10 billion, in a few months), USA Farmers are going broke, under the economic tariffs strain, grifting and cons of his dumbass tariffs and shit-show admin policies.

Farmers Are Struggling Under Donald Trump, Sep 13,2025.

https://www.newsweek.com/farmers-are...-trump-2128104

So while the MAGA suckers, continue to harp on about "the woke going broke", they fail to see it's hardworking (bi-partisan) Americans that are going broke, from a callous, fraudulent and criminal MAGA administration, hell bent on prioritizing personal and political enrichment through foreign deals, while critical domestic sectors like small business and agriculture suffer from policy choices that exacerbate financial hardships.

It's not as bad as you make it out to be. Inflation is under 3%, not great, but no where near the levels under Biden. Stock market is up. Real Estate prices remain high, not much selling, but that is going to reverse overnight once interest rates drop. It is not the booming economy of Trump 2016, but its not like anyone lost any money. If you followed the news, they would have you believe next great depression is coming. Fake news.

[RamDavidson84]

Of course you and Tyler Robinson's Repub MAGA State Governor would want to "bothsides" the issue since, as Spidy pointed out and fully substantiated, Trump's Repub MAGA Winger side is responsible for more than 5 times the politically-motivated violence of the so-called Left.

No surprise since more than 9 years ago Repub MAGA Trump promoted the then already brewing Repub Party promotion of applying their "2nd Amendment Remedy" to "take care of" any election winner they don't like.

Which obviously extended into the 2020 election outcome even though many of the Repub MAGA cop-killers and wannabe political assassins did not get their guns past the metal detectors outside of the USA Capitol area, despite Trump's efforts to allow them to, and they had to resort to using other types of deadly weapons and blunt instruments. American flag poles, for example..

I am not "bothsiding" the issue. I just don't want to see people kill each other over politics, especially Americans. I don't think that either side wants to openly condone killing, even though there are many people celebrating kirk's death. Just stating what I see. I did expose the playbook each side is running, in my opinion. That is just how I see it. You have been around longer than me, so I am sure you are quite aware of it as well.

[Spidy]

With the all the talk and dumbass identity politics, from the Fuhrer's MAGA suckers who are all talking about "...going woke is going broke, I'll definitely give them credit about one thing,...American's are going broke, under a MAGA Fuhrer's shit-show Admin, that is!

Whether you're a Dem or Repub, liberal or conservative, small business owner or farmer, the never ending grifting, con job and "The Great American MAGA Swindle", by the MAGA Fuhrer, is here to pickpocket and make broke hard working Americans.

The latest grifts in defiance of the USA Constitution's Emoluments Clauses:

NYT: "Over the past few months, Mr. Witkoff (Trump’s Middle East envoy) and Sheikh Tahnoon had become both diplomatic allies and business partners, testing the limits of ethics rules while enriching the president, his family and his inner circle,

At the heart of their relationship are two multi-billion-dollar deals. One involved a crypto company founded by the Witkoff and the Trump families that benefited both financially. The other involved a sale of valuable computer chips that benefited the Emirates economically.

While there is no evidence that one deal was explicitly offered in return for the other, the confluence of the two agreements is itself extraordinary. Taken together, they blurred the lines between personal and government business and raised questions about whether U.S. interests were served. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/15/u...d-liberty.html

The New Yorker: The NUMBER - How much is Trump pocketting off the presidency? and New Yorker Mag Reveals Trump Family's Frenzy to Cash In on the White House, Aug 11th, 2025.

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpNe45_-XWY AND https://www.democracynow.org/2025/8/20/trump_profit.

Meanwhile their MAGA Fuhrer, continues to enrich himself and his family (from a net worth of under a billion, to 5 billion and then 10 billion, in a few months), USA Farmers are going broke, under the economic tariffs strain, grifting and cons of his dumbass tariffs and shit-show admin policies.

Farmers Are Struggling Under Donald Trump, Sep 13,2025.

https://www.newsweek.com/farmers-are...-trump-2128104

So while the MAGA suckers, continue to harp on about "the woke going broke", they fail to see it's hardworking (bi-partisan) Americans that are going broke, from a callous, fraudulent and criminal MAGA administration, hell bent on prioritizing personal and political enrichment through foreign deals, while critical domestic sectors like small business and agriculture suffer from policy choices that exacerbate financial hardships.

[EihTooms]

No Elvis, I want these left-wing fanatics to keep posting their vile poison although not necessarily on the ISG. With every obscene internet post, they expose what they truly are. The Kirk political assassination and their disgusting, hateful defense of the indefensible shows the world their true nature. It astonishes me the degree to which idiots like Bob and far more famous radical members of the Democratic party are so tone deaf and unaware of how much ordinary, hardworking, non-political people are offended and outraged by their gross lack of human decency. Keep it up you Jacobins and the Republican party will own the White House for the next 50 years.

Has somebody in this forum defended the cold-blooded "2nd Amendment Remedy" shooting and killing of Charlie Kirk?

If so, I must have missed it. Please quote the exact passages and statements supporting your accusation.

Thank you.

[EihTooms]

Remember when Elvis wondered how some of us would react if Trump cured Cancer?

Funny he should mention Cancer and Trump in the same sentence.

It turns out as thankful for the 2016 MAGA vote as Covid was, a million dead Americans later, Cancer no doubt is even more thankful for the 2024 MAGA vote:

In the war on cancer, Team Trump decides to start waving the white flag.
American voters might not have realized that a Republican victory in 2024 would mean sweeping cuts to cancer research, but thats what theyre getting.
Sept. 16, 2025

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-...lag-rcna231434

Its against this backdrop that The New York Times reported that a half-century after Richard Nixon declared war on cancer, there have been a great many breakthroughs that have saved and extended lives. The incumbent Republican president, however, is effectively waving the white flag in this war. From the article:

"In a matter of months, the Trump administration has canceled hundreds of millions of dollars in cancer-related research grants and contracts, arguing that they were part of politically driven D.E.I. initiatives, and suspended or delayed payments for hundreds of millions more. It is trying to sharply reduce the percentage of expenses that the government will cover for federally funded cancer-research labs. It has terminated hundreds of government employees who helped lead the countrys cancer-research system and ensured that new discoveries reached clinicians, cancer patients and the American public. And the presidents proposed budget for the next fiscal year calls for a more-than-37-percent cut to the National Cancer Institute the N.I.H. agency that leads most of the nations cancer research reducing it to $4.5 billion from $7.2 billion. Adjusting for inflation, you have to go back more than 30 years to find a comparably sized federal cancer-research budget."

In a companion piece, the articles author, Jonathan Mahler, noted that the timing of the retreat is especially cruel America is in the midst of one of its most productive periods in cancer-research history, he noted and even if a more sensible administration takes office after Trumps exit, it wont be possible to quickly reverse course.

"The disruptions to existing projects and larger doubts about the governments commitment to funding future cancer research are already causing damage that may be very difficult to undo, potentially depleting the countrys supply of scientists and scientific innovation for decades to come, he concluded."

Hey, at least Repub MAGA Trump can now truthfully claim to have ended an actual war somewhere. Unfortunately, he ended it by handing Cancer a huge victory. Elvis, don't hold your breath waiting to find out how anyone would react if Trump cured Cancer. That is far, far, far away from what Trump has in mind for the fate of Cancer.

[Spidy]

So if someone would have successfully assassinated Trump, Kirk would be alive? You are still promoting hate, and you need to shut the fuck up! It is the hate that you, Spidy, MSNBC, and the NYT specialize in that killed Kirk, and you assholes never accept responsibility for anything.

Once again, you just talk shit, and gish gallosh gibberish, just like your master and your MAGA Fuhrer, with no evidence of said claims.

FYI, The data bear out, that YOU and your MAGA Fuhrer, is once again spreading lies and falsehoods, when it comes to who is committing the majority of the political violence.

• "A total of 3,599 people have been murdered in politically motivated terrorist attacks in the United States from January 1, 1975, through September 10, 2025."
  
  Right-wingers are the second most common motivating ideology, accounting for 391 murders and 11 percent of the total. The definition here of right-wing terrorists includes those motivated by white supremacy, anti-abortion beliefs, involuntary celibacy (incels), and other right-wing ideologies." https://www.cato.org/blog/politicall...-united-states

The evidence provided by EihToom (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...=1#post3026421), for Kirk's shooting clearly shows you can, ADD 1 MORE RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST to the LONG LIST of right-wing terrorists.

Where's your HARD evidence, besides the nonsense and gish gallop you parrot?

[EihTooms]

So if someone would have successfully assassinated Trump, Kirk would be alive? You are still promoting hate, and you need to shut the fuck up! It is the hate that you, Spidy, MSNBC, and the NYT specialize in that killed Kirk, and you assholes never accept responsibility for anything.

Your latest moronic post is if you want gas prices down, kill Trump. Jesus, can you stop it? Are you so fucked in the head that you cannot see what your hateful rhetoric has led to?

We used to debate the issues but with you Democratic douches there is nothing to debate. Republicans are pure evil, and Democrats are angelic saints.

In your fucked up head, the only good Republican is a dead one, and you have been posting this shit FOR YEARS!

Quit demonizing half of America, you fucking loser!

Charlie Kirk was not killed by "Radical Left Ideology" or even "Repub MAGA Winger Ideology", despite you trying very hard to make a strong case for the latter here.

Robinson and his very likely even more "Radical Left" pre-op transgender boyfriend could have shouted "woke" pronouns and pleas to stop taunting trannies in Kirk's face for an hour and none of it would have killed him.

No, he was killed by a bullet from a gun picked up, loaded, aimed and fired by an impressionable young man who obviously was born and raised deep in a Repub MAGA environment that for at least the past 9 years promoted precisely such a "2nd Amendment Remedy" for whatever political or societal grievances bugged him.

Connect whatever dots you must in order to lay blame for it anywhere other than the perpetrator if that is your thing.

Who knows, maybe you can unearth some widely promoted Dem version of Trump / MAGA's "2nd Amendment Solution" out there the rest of us have forgotten, in which case then you can twist yourself into another pretzel trying to spin a "bothsider" conclusion about it. But I don't think you will unearth such a thing.

BTW, are you celebrating Robinson's very likely even more "Radical Left Ideology"-influenced pre-op transgender boyfriend for being so cooperative in helping the authorities piece together whatever they can or care about knowing regarding how Robinson got the gun he decided to use in his Trump / Repub MAGA "2nd Amendment Remedy"-promoted crime?

[Axel Heyst]

In your fucked up head, the only good Republican is a dead one, and you have been posting this shit FOR YEARS! Quit demonizing half of America, you fucking loser!

No Elvis, I want these left-wing fanatics to keep posting their vile poison although not necessarily on the ISG. With every obscene internet post, they expose what they truly are. The Kirk political assassination and their disgusting, hateful defense of the indefensible shows the world their true nature. It astonishes me the degree to which idiots like Bob and far more famous radical members of the Democratic party are so tone deaf and unaware of how much ordinary, hardworking, non-political people are offended and outraged by their gross lack of human decency. Keep it up you Jacobins and the Republican party will own the White House for the next 50 years.

[MarquisdeSade1]

So if someone would have successfully assassinated Trump, Kirk would be alive? You are still promoting hate, and you need to shut the fuck up! It is the hate that you, Spidy, MSNBC, and the NYT specialize in that killed Kirk, and you assholes never accept responsibility for anything.

Your latest moronic post is if you want gas prices down, kill Trump. Jesus, can you stop it? Are you so fucked in the head that you cannot see what your hateful rhetoric has led to?

We used to debate the issues but with you Democratic douches there is nothing to debate. Republicans are pure evil, and Democrats are angelic saints.

In your fucked up head, the only good Republican is a dead one, and you have been posting this shit FOR YEARS!

Quit demonizing half of America, you fucking loser!

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...of-murder/amp/

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/e...15/id/1226510/

I disagreed with Cane and the POS sent me a threatening message today, I asked the mod if that was allowed, no reply.

[EihTooms]

Imagine if Joe Biden had said something like this about an actual deadly USA attack on a purported enemy.

Which he never did.

LOL. Now, if this is the kind of blithering blathering cognitively impaired "research" Trump applies to a simple War on Drugs or any other law and order endeavor, just think how blitheringly blatheringly cognitively impaired wrong he is about the wars his beloved Russia Russia Russia is waging against our allies freely, unfettered and unchallenged right under his orange nose:

Stable Genius Claims 300 MILLION Died From Drugs.
I hope some of y'all made it. Scary!

https://crooksandliars.com/2025/09/s...million-people

Marco Rubio stated that the U.S. will continue to destroy suspected drug vessels as it did in Venezuela, a move that has received bipartisan criticism. On Sunday, while speaking to reporters, Donald J. Trump attempted to justify that by falsely claiming that 300 million people died from drugs last year. Big if true, considering about 340 million people are populating the U.S. We're all dead! But if true, that would explain Trump's abysmal job numbers.

The Guardian's Hugo Lowell asked Trump about the president of Venezuela calling it an illegal attack.

See video.

[b]"Whats illegal are the drugs that were on the boat, and the drugs that are being sent into our country, and the fact that 300 million people died last year from drugs, thats whats illegal, Trump falsely said..

[EihTooms]

Both the right and left are playing politics here. The right is trying to paint this as another left wing lunatic killing and this is typical of left wing politics. The left is playing the card, the right is only focusing on the politics of the shooter and refusing to acknowledge this sort of tragedy happens across the political spectrum. In a way, they are both right, but that should not be the narrative. The narrative should be condemnation of political violence irregardless of political party. Instead, we have the media machine doing everything they can to stir the pot at much as possible to get the most clicks and views and earn the most dollars and cents from both sides of the spectrum and the American public loves it whether they know it or not. They can't help follow this story all day. And the radical extremists, like you Tooms, play right into as well. You even trying to paint this like the guy was a conservative LOL. I don't think there is a single person who has read your posts who even takes the time to read what you write any more. I know I stopped reading your posts long ago, because they will always be so ridiculously biased..

Of course you and Tyler Robinson's Repub MAGA State Governor would want to "bothsides" the issue since, as Spidy pointed out and fully substantiated, Trump's Repub MAGA Winger side is responsible for more than 5 times the politically-motivated violence of the so-called Left.

No surprise since more than 9 years ago Repub MAGA Trump promoted the then already brewing Repub Party promotion of applying their "2nd Amendment Remedy" to "take care of" any election winner they don't like.

Which obviously extended into the 2020 election outcome even though many of the Repub MAGA cop-killers and wannabe political assassins did not get their guns past the metal detectors outside of the USA Capitol area, despite Trump's efforts to allow them to, and they had to resort to using other types of deadly weapons and blunt instruments. American flag poles, for example.

Tyler Robinson would have been exposed to and absorbing that Repub MAGA promotion and behavior in his family, town, state, schools and in all forms of media, wherever Trump and his fellow Repub MAGAS could get it carried to impressionable minds of any age.

Including Charlie Kirk, BTW.

[Elvis 2008]

Robinson's murder of Charlie Kirk was the product of Repub MAGA and Trump influence. And lots of it. Period.

So if someone would have successfully assassinated Trump, Kirk would be alive? You are still promoting hate, and you need to shut the fuck up! It is the hate that you, Spidy, MSNBC, and the NYT specialize in that killed Kirk, and you assholes never accept responsibility for anything.

Your latest moronic post is if you want gas prices down, kill Trump. Jesus, can you stop it? Are you so fucked in the head that you cannot see what your hateful rhetoric has led to?

We used to debate the issues but with you Democratic douches there is nothing to debate. Republicans are pure evil, and Democrats are angelic saints.

In your fucked up head, the only good Republican is a dead one, and you have been posting this shit FOR YEARS!

Quit demonizing half of America, you fucking loser!

[RamDavidson84]

Yeah, you got me! You're as sharp as a tack and can't put anything past you.

But do keep up those "keen detective" skills of yours and plow that same effort into your political discussions and I'm sure we'll have many interesting things to debate?

ISG is rated "E", for Everyone's Contributions:

I noted you recently professed that you "love ISG". Which is all good BTW. So if that true, you'd know, there are many ways to contribute to ISG, in order to show one's "love" and "passion" of ISG. Right?

The guy who takes the dirtiest shots at people on this forum now wants to make sure its rated "E" for everyone and we all play nice because he got exposed as an angry bitter creeper troll who doesn't even post trip reports. Typical Bully, stand up to them and watch them melt. Been doing this and seeing this reaction a long time.

If you want to play nice in the sandbox Spidy why don't you apologize for constantly mocking my dead friend.

Sometimes I feel like the heartless posts I see on this forum and online are from people who have never experienced real love for something. Seems like some people never had a real friendship and don't understand how mocking the death of a good friend could really put a dagger in someone's heart. People spend too much time posting on forums and become disconnected from the real world and then post this heartless garbage online like its no big deal. Don't get me wrong, I am not going to lose a wink of sleep over it, just too many weirdo extreme posts.