Rants, Stupid Shit and Coronavirus in Thailand

[EihTooms]

Can we all agree that in Thailand prostitution is de jure (as a matter of law) illegal, but de facto (in actuality) accepted as an every day part of life? That would make both sides of the argument right in the end. It's illegal, but you find it all over the place because the authorities don't enforce the law, except for on occasion and very selectively.

If you had said Thailand and Thai Law's own very narrow legal definition of prostitution is illegal in Thailand but not anyone else's definition of it is illegal in Thailand if that legal definition is the mere exchange of sex for money or money for sex between consenting adults or the mere discussing and agreeing to engage in that exchange in private, then the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996 would agree with you and so would I.

And when it comes to the Thai Penal Code, that legally enforceable document has nothing at all to say about any version or definition of Prostitution except that it is illegal for anyone age 16 or more who can take care of themselves to live off the income of a prostitute. That's it. Nothing more.

The reason consenting adult prostitutes and customers of those prostitutes in Thailand are not arrested and charged with a crime for discussing and agreeing to exchange money for sex or sex for money and then retreating to private quarters to fulfill that agreement is because there is no law in any legally enforceable document citing those behaviors to be illegal, crimes or punishable by any penalty whatsoever.

Which is why there has been no report of any arrest or charge for those behaviors in any bar, nightclub or any other venue or location in Thailand nor has it ever happened "in secret" but mysteriously never reported in the media. Ever.

It isn't because every one of the Thai police have decided to ignore it. Nor is it because every one of them are being bribed to ignore it.

They don't make arrests for those things and the Thai DOJ does not charge or convict anyone of a crime for doing those things because there is no Citation or Section stating those behaviors to be illegal or crimes on the books to charge them for, never has been and never will be.

The question has been asked one way or another dozens of times on this Forum over the years; if someone thinks the mere person-to-person discussion and agreement to exchange money for sex or sex for money between consenting adults age 18 or older and that the mere fulfillment of that agreement in private is illegal or a crime in Thailand then please produce a link to the legally enforceable document in Thailand stating that it is illegal and a crime and a quote of the Citation or Section that says so in a plain language sentence.

So far nobody has been able to do it. Because no such Citation or Section exists, never has and never will in Thailand.

Which, granted, is very different from the legal definition of prostitution and solicitation for prostitution in other countries, in the mind of people from other countries and as it is perhaps commonly understood in the minds of many everywhere.

But, obviously, Thailand and Thai Law doesn't give a shit about those other definitions of it. They have instead taken great pains and gone to extraordinary measures to write laws in words and sentences that travel wide circles around and away from any sentence that might be inadvertently misunderstood to be stating those mere acts to be illegal and crimes when it would have been blissfully easy for them to simply state it as clearly and in plain language as other countries' laws on the topic are written if that was ever their intention. Which it isn't their intention now, never has been and never will be.

Thailand and Thai Law apparently doesn't WANT those other legal definitions of it to come within a mile of their own very narrow legal definition of it. That's why no legally enforceable document in Thailand allows so much as a single sentence to find its way into the text of those documents suggesting such a thing, much less spelling it out in plain language.

[SubCmdr]

I'll have to be very wary of accepting what you "teach" us about Bitcoin, crypto, the stock market and land investments from now on.

Start date October 15,2026.

Three Senior Members individuals have challenged my investment abilities. If they know so damn much here is my challenge to them.

Here is my challenge to them:

3 markets, Oil (Brent), Gold, Bitcoin.

Predict the high and low between the Start date of October 15,2026 and End Date of December 31,2026.

This is the chart we will use for Brent Oil Spot (USD):

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/brent-crude-oil

This is the chart we will use for Gold Spot (USD):

https://www.apmex.com/gold-price

This is the chart we will use for Bitcoin Spot (USD):

https://www.coinbase.com/price/bitcoin

Each prediction is scored by the distance of the prediction from the high and the low in either direction. The total distance is added up for each market. And like golf, the predictions with the lowest total distance wins. Winner takes the entire pot.

The bet is 30000 THB for each participant placed up front in escrow.

Talk is cheap. Easy to be a critic

Show some testicular fortitude and put some money on the line. Let's see who steps up!

[SubCmdr]

Can we all agree that in Thailand prostitution is de jure (as a matter of law) illegal, but de facto (in actuality) accepted as an every day part of life?

That has been my position during the entire discussion. I have already proven this beyond a reasonable doubt.

That would make both sides of the argument right in the end. It's illegal, but you find it all over the place because the authorities don't enforce the law, except for on occasion and very selectively.

Agreed!

T has not been my goal to be right. My goal has been to inform my fellow International Tricks. As long at the personal attacks continue, I will continue to respond. This is not the NBA, there are no free shots. The Senior Member does not fuck. That is why he gets he jollies going back and forth with me, often straying from the legal argument and writing defamatory statements about me. He hides behind the vail of secrecy using the internet. But what is one to do?

[The Cane]

Can we all agree that in Thailand prostitution is de jure (as a matter of law) illegal, but de facto (in actuality) accepted as an every day part of life? That would make both sides of the argument right in the end. It's illegal, but you find it all over the place because the authorities don't enforce the law, except for on occasion and very selectively.

[EihTooms]

Prostitution IS illegal in Thailand but only Prostitution as is clearly and in plain language very narrowly defined for legal purposes in the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996 while it is totally missing as even the topic of a potential crime in the Thai Penal Code.

Maybe that's why editorial commentary in many media reports on arrests "for prostitution" in Thailand often state that it is "technically" illegal in Thailand. Yeah, only if you apply Thai Law's extremely strict and narrow parameters around the concept of prostitution.

technically
/ˈteknək(ə)lē/
Technically means according to a strict, literal interpretation of exact facts, rules, or definitions, often differing from common perception or everyday use.

That would be it.

SubCmdr's assertion and opinions offered by other countries' state departments and typically lazy media sources that don't even bother to include that telling "technically" qualifier would be accurate if they stated it this way; Prostitution as legally and very narrowly defined in Thai Law is not legal but is nothing like some Podunk country's legal definition of it..

Otherwise, it's very misleading by omission of the critical qualifier.

[EihTooms]

I do remember the Pattaya police arresting a Farang for prostitution, using a recently arrested lady in a sting operation.

And I remember Windmill being raided and shut down for having short time rooms on site.

Explorer, you don't need to provide a link for the Windmill Bar bust or a Soi 6 bar bust.

SubCmdr already provided the links to those reports and, sure enough, as has been the case with every such news report posted in this Forum, it turned out no prostitutes were arrested for exchanging sex for money or anything else and no customers were arrested for exchanging money for sex with a consenting adult in Thailand.

There were only arrests of, presumably, three mamasans and / or managers of Windmill Bar for the crimes clearly stated in plain language in the Act that have been discussed as such here many times. And despite questioning some 18 staff / prostitutes in a Soi 6 bar and encountering perhaps dozens of customers of prostitutes in the bar, none of them were arrested and charged with any crime.

As expected and predicted.

[EihTooms]

SubCmdr takes two more swings and scores two more misses! LOL.

We already know procuring, managing and running a commercial prostitution ring is illegal as is engaging underage sex workers for it. It's right there in plain language in the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996.

Haven't you read that yet?

Please provide the link to the news story. I am interested in reading it.

Windmill GoGo in Pattaya raided: Three arrested over prostitution and underage sex.

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crim...d-underage-sex

From your link:

Police also found accounts detailing customer transactions, timesheets for the women who worked there and condoms.

A man and two women were arrested. They will face charges relating to human trafficking, prostitution and the procurement of underage women for sex.

Human trafficking, prostitution (the proprietors of a commercial prostitution business) and procurement. All of which are stated in plain language to be illegal and never refuted by me or anyone else here.

There is no mention that the people arrested were a customer and any prostitutes. They couldn't have been the three arrested and charged in the entire Windmill Bar bust because Windmill Bar has at least twice as many mamasans and managers as that and they would have been the only ones arrested in that bust.

http://<a href="https://thethaiger.c...derage-sex</a>

Please note that this prostitution establishment was unmarked. Note also the mention of the venue having rooms available above the bar for customers. Yet there are senior members who say prostitution is legal in Thailand.

And here it is again. Who was arrested? What were the charges?

From your link:

Charges from the raid could include human trafficking, prostitution and the procurement of women for underage sex. The 18 staff were interviewed separately to gather evidence for pending legal action against the venue and owners.

Pending legal action against the venue and owners?

So out of 18 staff / prostitutes and likely dozens of customers in the bar, no prostitutes and no customers of prostitutes were arrested and charged with anything, as appears to have also been the case with Windmill Bar bust.

Now, why do you suppose that is, SubCmdr?

[SubCmdr]

Sorry, SubCmdr, you'll have to come up with better ways to communicate with Thai authorities here and elsewhere to encourage them to shut down gogo bars, beer bars, restaurants, hotels, shopping malls, cinemas, temples, bowling alleys and other locations all over Thailand and getting their proprietors and everyone on ISG arrested and interrogated for entering, patronizing and "allowing" something for which there is no crime in Thailand to take place.

This paragraph illustrates why the OP posts here mostly. You won't find a fuck report from him.

[SubCmdr]

I've noticed a correlation between the biggest posters of male bovine excrement and lack of posts related to the purpose of ISG.

The question is: why aren't they fucking?

The answer to that question is contained in the posting histories of our two wannabe geriatric sexual athletes. One 73 and the the other 84. With the 84 year old playing off the 73 year old like he is Ed Macman. ROTFLMAO!. Neither one of them have figured out the the true objective of ISG is. The objective is not to flap their gums. The objective is not to share historical stories from their glory days.

What is my objective?

My objective is to nut!

During this entire time they have both been flapping their gums, no brother has sent me a PM asking about the legality of Prostitution in Thailand. No, their questions were about which prostitution establishments were best for them to solicit their prostitute. I shared the information with them that I had in the spirit of what ISG is for. You have to wonder why they contact me? The contacted me because my posting history shows I fuck!

It should be noted

The Government of at least one of our Senior Member geriatric sexual athletes says this:

From the US Department of State

BUREAU OF DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND LABOR.

2008 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices.

Report.

February 25,2009.

Prostitution is illegal, although it is practiced openly throughout the country. Local officials with commercial interests in prostitution often protected the practice. Trafficking in women and children for prostitution was a serious problem. The illegal nature of the work and the high incidence of part-time prostitutes made precise numbers difficult to assess, and estimates varied widely. A government survey during the year found that there were 76,000 to 77,000 adult prostitutes in registered entertainment establishments. However, NGOs believed there were between 200,000 and 300,000 prostitutes.

https://2009-2017.state.gov/j/drl/rl...eap/119058.htm

I did not write the report. I just quoted it

I wonder if our Senior member who feels so passionately about the subject has written / emailed / called the Secretary of State, his representative in the House or contacted one or both of his Senators of his podunk state in the Dis United States of America tell them he is a Registered Democrat, he votes and he demands that they correct their error?

ROTFLMAO!

[SubCmdr]

Police in Pattaya have raided the Coming Bar in Soi 6. They allegedly uncovered evidence of prostitution and underage sex on the premises. Authorities noted that prostitution was available at the venue and had 18 women available to service customers, one girl was found to be 17 years old. The venue had rooms available above the bar for customers.

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crim...d-underage-sex

Please note that this prostitution establishment was unmarked. Note also the mention of the venue having rooms available above the bar for customers. Yet there are senior members who say prostitution is legal in Thailand.

[EihTooms]

I do remember the Pattaya police arresting a Farang for prostitution, using a recently arrested lady in a sting operation.

And I remember Windmill being raided and shut down for having short time rooms on site.

We already know that a couple of BJ Bars in Bangkok were temporarily shutdown a few years ago because the ladies sitting outside got too loud, overt and shameless about describing the sex acts for sale inside their venue to the pedestrians passing by. That is illegal in Thailand. But they soon reopened and since then and for years now the ladies just describe the sex acts for sale inside their venue in a normal voice to potential customers that approach them up close.

I have been in Windmill a few times and could see there were customers paying the ladies for "sexual gratification" activities like DATY right onstage, in full view of everyone in the bar and it being done as a matter of routine exchange of money for sex. The fact that we can only vaguely recall one time in the past when that place was closed down for being a "prostitution establishment" but only for drifting into the part of Thai Law where the ST rooms on the premises could be construed as concrete evidence they were running a commercial prostitution in a promiscuous manner establishment speaks volumes about how overt and shameless one needs to go for Thai authorities to bother with it.

As far as some farang being targeted in a sting operation for whatever it was that violated Thai Law, we would need to see a link for the report to know more about what went down. We already know it could not have been for him having a person-to-person discussion and agreement with a consenting adult to exchange money and then fulfilling that agreement in private quarters because there are exactly zero laws on the books in Thailand citing that behavior as illegal, a crime and punishable by any penalty whatsoever.

It happens all the time in Podunk countries with Podunk legal definitions for prostitution and solicitation for prostitution.

But since Thailand and Thai Law doesn't give a shit about anyone's legal definitions for those and other things but their own and their own are stated clearly and in plain language in the Code and the Act and nowhere is there so much as a sentence citing the behavior I just described as illegal or a crime it could not have been for that version of prostitution or solicitation for prostitution. It had to be for something else.

[EihTooms]

https://mekongmigration.org/labourla...Act%201996.pdf

The actual definition of prostitution reads as follows:

in a promiscuous manner is not defined in the law nor has it been defined in Thai Courts.

There is no definition of solicitation for prostitution written into the law.

There is no definition of overtly and shamelessly or cause nuisance to the public.

If a case was to goto Thai Court then the Judge would determine if the circumstances supported by the facts met the standard. That standard is not set up front.

EihTooms knows this and that is why he give his interpretation of the law instead of actually reading it an quoting it to us.

One of the biggest errors he makes is:

There is not requirement that a venue advertise that they are a prostitution establishment in order for them to be one. They simply must have premises arranged or allowed for prostitution or be a place used for making contact for prostitution.

That is the plain language of the law. It needs no interpretation from a non-Thai citizen, non-Thai member of the bar.

The manner of solicitation for prostitution that Thailand considers breaking the law is clearly and in plain language described in Thai law and has nothing to do with the way it is defined in your Podunk country.

The clear and in plain language requirement in Thai Law is that prostitution in a promiscuous manner be the purpose and behavior allowed in an establishment for it to be a "prostitution establishment. " The fact that consenting adults might engage in person-to-person discussions about exchanging money for sex in a venue that sells alcohol, food, entertainment, bowling, t-shirts, hamburgers or donuts and it is "allowed" because the owners, management and other staff members of those venues don't pro-actively jump in to monitor, record, log into the record and present as evidence in a court of law everything those consenting adults discussed does not make any of those venues a "prostitution establishment" any more than it makes McDs, a temple, a mall, a hotel lobby or the hallway in your apartment complex a "prostitution establishment".

Sorry, SubCmdr, you'll have to come up with better ways to communicate with Thai authorities here and elsewhere to encourage them to shut down gogo bars, beer bars, restaurants, hotels, shopping malls, cinemas, temples, bowling alleys and other locations all over Thailand and getting their proprietors and everyone on ISG arrested and interrogated for entering, patronizing and "allowing" something for which there is no crime in Thailand to take place.

[SubCmdr]

I do remember the Pattaya police arresting a Farang for prostitution, using a recently arrested lady in a sting operation.

Please provide the link to the news story. I am interested in reading it.

And I remember Windmill being raided and shut down for having short time rooms on site.

Windmill GoGo in Pattaya raided: Three arrested over prostitution and underage sex

As difficult as it might be to believe, police have found MORE evidence of prostitution in Pattaya. Attention this time turned to the red-light district of Walking Street where regular inspections from police and officials in the past have found no prostitution (cough).

Police conducted a raid using an undercover informant after receiving tip-offs the bar was being used as a shop-front to sell sex to foreigners. In the early hours of this morning (Saturday), the Windmill GoGo was raided resulting in three people being arrested. Police used a foreigner acting as a potential customer to scope out the premises and the services on offer.

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crim...d-underage-sex

[Explorer8939]

I do remember the Pattaya police arresting a Farang for prostitution, using a recently arrested lady in a sting operation.

And I remember Windmill being raided and shut down for having short time rooms on site.

[SubCmdr]

https://mekongmigration.org/labourla...Act%201996.pdf

The actual definition of prostitution reads as follows:

Prostitution means the acceptance of sexual intercourse, the acceptance of any other act, or the commission of any other act for sexual gratification of another person in a promiscuous manner for remuneration or any other benefit, irrespective of whether the person who accepts such act and the person who commits such act are of the same or opposite sex;.

in a promiscuous manner is not defined in the law nor has it been defined in Thai Courts.

There is no definition of solicitation for prostitution written into the law.

There is no definition of overtly and shamelessly or cause nuisance to the public.

If a case was to goto Thai Court then the Judge would determine if the circumstances supported by the facts met the standard. That standard is not set up front.

Section 5

Whoever, for the purpose of prostitution, offers, solicits, introduces oneself to, follows, or importunes another person on a street, in a public place, or any other place and such act is overtly and shamelessly committed or causes nuisance to the public, shall be punished with a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.

EihTooms knows this and that is why he give his interpretation of the law instead of actually reading it an quoting it to us.

One of the biggest errors he makes is:

"Prostitution Establishment" means the place or premises arranged for prostitution or allowed for prostitution, and shall include the place used for making contact or procuring another person for prostitution;.

There is not requirement that a venue advertise that they are a prostitution establishment in order for them to be one. They simply must have premises arranged or allowed for prostitution or be a place used for making contact for prostitution.

That is the plain language of the law. It needs no interpretation from a non-Thai citizen, non-Thai member of the bar.