South China - Dongguan

[Big Swingin Dave]

been to 5 different ktvs now after the crackdown, it appears that all the ktvs are now back to running at full speed except that all the wgs are not wearing their uniforms and some places are not even wearing their badges. most of the wgs look very ordinary in their own street clothes which makes picking a little harder and longer...otherwise, it's business as usual.

bsd

[SE Asia Joe]

please pay attention now, a trustful friend in CP inform me that the 2nd raid start fm 22 and will finish at 29. And this time will be more dangerious than last week bcs there are higher officer will come to check everything. So it is advisable not come during this period and postpone your plan after 29. But I wish he is wrong, who knows. Ijust pass the message to my fellow ISG member and I hope anyone still there can give us accurate information.

Thanks!
Oh SHIT!!!

And when I thought that the coast was clearing up!!

Be careful out there guys!!

SEAJ

[Freepeaks]

i hope this isn't true. if so time to phone some regulars. anyone else in town in the next 2 weeks? perhaps we can get some numbers together and go to a bar if ktvs closed. 22 is today is this true?

[Zhuren]

Folks, in case you haven't noticed, there is a MAJOR crackdown going on, initiated by the central government and targeted at triads and mafia organizations - which operate mainly in the South. According to UK's Daily Mail, (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1225159/Godmother-Triad-gang-kept-string-young-lovers-jailed-18-years-illegal-gambling-dens.html#ixzz0XZbWPvR1) "a total of 1,500 suspects have been arrested in the crackdown, including gangsters, prominent businessmen and 14 high-ranking officials. Six gang members have already been sentenced to death for crimes including murder and blackmail."

What you see in closed KTVs is collateral damage from that all-out war.

[Santa]

a trustful friend in CP inform me that the 2nd raid start fm 22 and will finish at 29. And this time will be more dangerous than last week bcs there are higher officer will come to check everything.

Thanks!

Big Top is a good friend of mine, a regular reader of this forum, known him a long time, and I know he is a very frequent visitor to CP.

If his contact is correct, it sounds like maybe a bigwig will also be visiting, maybe to see that the previous crackdown was inforced. Maybe?

[Wadman]

Went to a sauna near CP on Saturday with a couple of buddies. We figured we would try a new place. Called up a manager, she said in no uncertain terms that the sauna was closed. Showed up in person later, and only legit portion of sauna was open.

Made reservations at an old favourite and everything went fine. My girl did tell me during the session that currently the sauna doesn't take new customers, only returning customers. So biz is bad for the girls, they would rather have some time off. But management forces a certain number of girls to show up anyway, even if it means she may not get a a single customer for the day.



please pay attention now, a trustful friend in CP inform me that the 2nd raid start fm 22 and will finish at 29. And this time will be more dangerious than last week bcs there are higher officer will come to check everything. So it is advisable not come during this period and postpone your plan after 29. But I wish he is wrong, who knows. Ijust pass the message to my fellow ISG member and I hope anyone still there can give us accurate information.

Thanks!

[Lost99]

The ongoing raids is disappointing...especially since I will be arriving late December. I hope everything will be running then. If so I'll gladly contribute to the FR. Looking forward to CP as I've mostly been in Zhuhai and Singapore in the past.

On a side note, if any bros will be in ChangPing or Zhuhai last week of December let me know, would gladly meetup with anybody to get some pointers.

[Big Swingin Dave]

Renovation for the new Swan Lake KTV is not quite done so the soft opening has been pushed back to Wednesday, 11/25 and the official opening to Saturday, 11/28.

BSD

[Big Swingin Dave]

No news of a new crackdown yet. Went to Eurasia tonight with Jetsetter, LA Monkey, Legal Lad, Prince, Don Won, Superforce99, Jim Traveller, and Waterfish, and 4 other non-ISG brothers and the place was fully booked. Talked to the people at Eurasia today, no one seems to know about the crackdown or they may be told to keep their mouth shut.

Hui Hua Sauna was not closed.

Due to the renovation at Swan Lake the Sauna has been moved to another town nearby.

Will call around town tomorrow and report back on what's the word on the street.

BSD

[Fast Eddie 48]

Folks, in case you haven't noticed, there is a MAJOR crackdown going on, initiated by the central government and targeted at triads and mafia organizations. Which operate mainly in the South. According to UK's Daily Mail, (http://www.Dailymail. Co. Uk/news/worldnews/article-1225159/Godmother-Triad-gang-kept-string-young-lovers-jailed-18-years-illegal-gambling-dens.html#ixzz0XZbWPvR1) "a total of 1, 500 suspects have been arrested in the crackdown, including gangsters, prominent businessmen and 14 high-ranking officials. Six gang members have already been sentenced to death for crimes including murder and blackmail. "

What you see in closed KTVs is collateral damage from that all-out war.To zhuren

I think the big clean up of CP is long over due, this order came from the top official in Guangdong because of high crime and gangster rampage in the cty, many HK and local complain and local police do nothing, I heard a few police official will be fired and even jail for taking money.

This will be better for CP in the long run, no one will be sure what will happen in the future for CP but I am sure the sauna and KTV will be back just to much demand for HK weekender, but for the bbs it will be tough just like other city in dongguan and Guangzhou.

Fast Eddie 48

[Web Connect]

Wellll...... let's see, let's just see.... if You're gonna be of the same mind AFTER your visit here.

It's all a matter of $$$ vs quality - and I'm pretty sure that you're gonna go away opining that for the quality, the price is CHEAP!!

Like comparing apples with oranges.

SEAJYes I totally agree that comparing cities and girls is like comparing apples with oranges. Every city and culture has it's positives and negatives.

I will give everyone a FULL report of my honest opinion of what I think of CP from a real monger perspective.

So far I am having a GREAT time in CP. If there is a crack down going on you could never tell. To be honest it sounds like a lot more fear mongering !

[Web Connect]

WEB,

I think it depend if you go the bbs in CP you can get st for 25 USD and overall quality is better than Thailand, PI and Cambodia, yes you can get a all nighter for 30 USD at Pattaya, Angeles city or Phenom penh but this is wild west sin city for hard core monger not for everyone, I cannot picture uncle Joe going there.

Fast Eddie 48Right the exchange rate as of 2009.11.23 is:

200.00 RMB = 29.29 USD
700.00 BAHT = 21.07 USD
1,000.00 PESO = 21.2970 USD

A Changping BBS is comparable to Soi 6 in Pattaya. Which you can get a ST girl for 700 BAHT.

A Changping BBS is comparable to the Perimeter Bars off Fields Ave in Angeles City.

When I talk about price there is a more than the price of pussy. You need to factor in the cost of a quality hotel room, food, drinking, taxi, and travel getting here. Not to mention I had to buy cold weather clothing.

I am not sure when the last time you were in Pattaya or Angeles City.. but I think EVERYONE's Uncle Joe is there right now. That is all those city's are made up of.

[Web Connect]

OAH would be the man to ask in regards to this, I guess.Why do we have to ask him ? I have been and spend a lot of time in both Pattaya and Angeles.

I will give you a full honest report once I am totally done with my trip.

I am not trying to rip of Changping. So far I am having and AMAZING time. I am really enjoying my time here. It is a great place and has tons of great girls.

If there is a crack down going on. I would NEVER have known. The BBS's seems to be full on right now and I am here ground zero. Are you sure there isn't a lot of fear mongering going on trying to scare readers?

[Bob Builder]

To zhuren

I think the big clean up of CP is long over due, this order came from the top official in Guangdong because of high crime and gangster rampage in the cty, many HK and local complain and local police do nothing, I heard a few police official will be fired and even jail for taking money.

This will be better for CP in the long run, no one will be sure what will happen in the future for CP but I am sure the sauna and KTV will be back just to much demand for HK weekender, but for the bbs it will be tough just like other city in dongguan and Guangzhou.

Fast Eddie 48

I am interested in know, as all these are vice establishments how you can be sure which ones the central government distinguishes can remain open and which can't. Was there something I missed and CP has been designated a Hong Kong sex tourist destination.

I can personnal name a few places in Guangdong that have been reduced to nothing as far a monger destination and have never been revived, Sha Zui, Fung Kong, Tai Ping, Yan Tian(not the port but in Dongguan), just to name a few and they didn't say KTVs and Saunas are OK. There are still KTVs in Sha Zui but about a tenth of the girls from the peak.

And in reality what happens when one gang get wiped out, another takes its place doing the same business.

[Member #4515]

No news of a new crackdown yet. Went to Eurasia tonight with Jetsetter, LA Monkey, Legal Lad, Prince, Don Won, Superforce99, Jim Traveller, and Waterfish, and 4 other non-ISG brothers and the place was fully booked. Talked to the people at Eurasia today, no one seems to know about the crackdown or they may be told to keep their mouth shut.

Hui Hua Sauna was not closed.

Due to the renovation at Swan Lake the Sauna has been moved to another town nearby.

Will call around town tomorrow and report back on what's the word on the street.

BSDAccording to my friend, everything back to normal and hope he was wrong.

Thank you Dave and hope everydody there have good time.

[Zhuren]

I am interested in know, as all these are vice establishments how you can be sure which ones the central government distinguishes can remain open and which can't.

This is not the way it works. Not in any government. The top official in Guangdong is told "clean up your act - or else." Then the order is passed down the line.

[Fast Eddie 48]

I am interested in know, as all these are vice establishments how you can be sure which ones the central government distinguishes can remain open and which can't. Was there something I missed and CP has been designated a Hong Kong sex tourist destination.

I can personnal name a few places in Guangdong that have been reduced to nothing as far a monger destination and have never been revived, Sha Zui, Fung Kong, Tai Ping, Yan Tian(not the port but in Dongguan), just to name a few and they didn't say KTVs and Saunas are OK. There are still KTVs in Sha Zui but about a tenth of the girls from the peak.

And in reality what happens when one gang get wiped out, another takes its place doing the same business.Bob,

Everyone think CP is a HK monger paradise and is untouchable wrong, China don't want to be know as a sex tourist country as the enconomy grow, I don't think they can closed every KTV and I don't know which one will stay open which one goes, you need to ask the high government official for that.

I was in Sha tsui shenzhen a few week ago as many low end KTV open up in the last 6 month but all bbs is gone, it is hard to crack down on KTV becasuse the girl there is freelance and service is done some where else, for all of you that is lucky to be there or in CP 10 yr ago know how wild it is then.

Fast Eddie 48

[Fast Eddie 48]

Right the exchange rate as of 2009.11.23 is:

200.00 RMB = 29.29 USD
700.00 BAHT = 21.07 USD
1,000.00 PESO = 21.2970 USD

A Changping BBS is comparable to Soi 6 in Pattaya. Which you can get a ST girl for 700 BAHT.

A Changping BBS is comparable to the Perimeter Bars off Fields Ave in Angeles City.

When I talk about price there is a more than the price of pussy. You need to factor in the cost of a quality hotel room, food, drinking, taxi, and travel getting here. Not to mention I had to buy cold weather clothing.

I am not sure when the last time you were in Pattaya or Angeles City.. but I think EVERYONE's Uncle Joe is there right now. That is all those city's are made up of.Web,

I am back in the US already and I was in China a few week ago, if you read my post you know I was in Thailand last month also, last time I was in AC is in may, I so agree on the travel cost to other place and I still think China is my favorite country to play now but that can change.

Fast Eddie 48

[ManonsanBoy]

This is not the way it works. Not in any government. The top official in Guangdong is told "clean up your act - or else." Then the order is passed down the line.

The only establishement not covered by these orders are the ones where senior PLA are involved. There were examples of this in the recent crackdown. The party will gives face to the PLA. Political power arises out of the barrel of the gun. Mao 101

[Big Swingin Dave]

Went to Penninsula KTV tonight, half the WGs came in their street clothes and the half in their uniforms. At 8pm, all the WGs in uniform were told to change into street clothes; otherwise, everything as normal.

The HuiMei, Yalan and Swan Lake BBS are open and business a little slow today as there were many girls in most of the BBS around town. A few girls and a mommy was arrested at the Night Market as we were told when we arrive there around midnight. Some shops are working very cautiously but others were openly soliciting at around 3am.

The LEs are out in force in the Swan Lake areas looking for drugs as I pass through this area numerous times between 11:30pm and 3:30am in the morning and saw many cars were searched and many peoples were hand-cuffed and apparently arrested. The LEs are not bothering the taxis but be careful not to be associated with people that have drugs in their possession.

Heading to Chang-An tomorrow, will report back accordingly...

BSD

[Weelock]

If there is a crack down going on. I would NEVER have known. The BBS's seems to be full on right now and I am here ground zero. Are you sure there isn't a lot of fear mongering going on trying to scare readers?


I recall this is your first time in China specifically in Chang Ping. If it is your first time, without any Chinese going alone, you will be extremely frustrated without any help. Even doing your homework, it will be hard but not impossible. Most likely you have someone familiar with CP that is showing you around. What places to go and not to go, so you will NOT get into trouble. You will be more protected and immune from the crime, scams, LE and little beggers. From what I have read, many places were closed or are closed.

You said you want to stay overnight in a sauna with Internet access ( WIFI). Are you willing to take a chance staying in a sauna with all the reports of raids going on now. Some reports of raids are from reputable members.

From BSD report #2021, he saw people being arrested and handcuffed. His suspicion are drugs but LE will check for anything wrong too. There were cars being searched. I guess you want to be on ground zero for RAIDS. You just missed some action last week and a few weeks ago.

[Bob Builder]

This is not the way it works. Not in any government. The top official in Guangdong is told "clean up your act - or else." Then the order is passed down the line.

You didn't get the meaning of my post. I was questioning how a member could be so sure that after an area had been designated to be cleaned up how he could be so sure that KTVs and saunas would be untouched, not the process of how the government issues its orders.

And regarding crackdowns, in particular if outside LE are brought in to carry out raids / inspections of premises, they are not going to inform the KTV / sauna beforehand so those places don't know when it is going to happen and you won't either unless you happen to be there when they arrive. The operators aren't going to tell you that this may happen as they still want your business and don't want to scare you off.

A previous post mentioned that the gals are not dressed in street clothes instead of uniform so if the LE search your room the KTV would say that you brought the gals with you and they don't work there. Do the gals still wear id for the KTV? I used to go to a place where there was a fishbowl with 100 gals but when the LE were raiding the gals were told to wait on the street or in shop and brought up a few at a time but were instructed to deny they worked there if questioned.

[Web Connect]

I recall this is your first time in China specifically in Chang Ping. If it is your first time, without any Chinese going alone, you will be extremely frustrated without any help. Even doing your homework, it will be hard but not impossible. Most likely you have someone familiar with CP is showing you around. What places to go and not to go, so you will NOT get into trouble. You will be more protected and immune from the crime, scams, LE and little beggers. From what I have read, many places were closed or are closed.

You said you want to stay overnight in a sauna with Internet access (WIFI). Are you willing to take a chance staying in a sauna with all the reports of raids going on now. Some reports of raids are from reputable members.

From BSD report #2021, he saw people being arrested and handcuffed. His suspicion are drugs but LE will check for anything wrong too. There were cars being searched. I guess you want to be on ground zero for RAIDS.Of course BSD is going to report there is danger and try to scare everyone. He is a tour guide and gets paid to take people around.

No this is NOT my first time in China but it is my first time in Changping. No I do not know how to speak Chinese. No I do not have anyone showing me around or protecting me. I don't need someone to hold my hand.

Everything you are "reading" about danger in CP is a scam! I am not saying it is not dangerous. But what you are "reading" is being blown way out of proportion.

I am getting premium BBS girls every day and night I have been here. Which pictures prove it. I have followed strangers down the darkest alleys went up dark flights of stairs to unfamiliar buildings. I was led to the so many BBS's stocked full of girls.

Yes I thought the Sauna's here in CP were the same as in Macau. No they may not have Wi Fi like in Macau. I know now it is a little different but I still think it is possible to stay in them over night. Yes I would say in them over night even with all this "hype" about a raid.

Yeah I seen the police riding around in their little carts and I seen the road blocks having everyone get out of their cars and being checked. Those facts may be correct. There are traffic stops in EVERY country. After doing extensive study on many websites (not just ISG) before coming to CP and now being here on the ground. I can see it and experience it for myself.

When I am done with my trip and have time to compile notes I will write a full honest report. A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!

[Bob Builder]

Of course BSD is going to report there is danger and try to scare everyone. He is a tour guide and gets paid to take people around.

No this is NOT my first time in China but it is my first time in Changping. No I do not know how to speak Chinese. No I do not have anyone showing me around or protecting me. I don't need someone to hold my hand.

Everything you are "reading" about danger in CP is a scam! I am not saying it is not dangerous. But what you are "reading" is being blown way out of proportion.

I am getting premium BBS girls every day and night I have been here. Which pictures prove it. I have followed strangers down the darkest alleys went up dark flights of stairs to unfamiliar buildings. I was led to the so many BBS's stocked full of girls.

Yes I thought the Sauna's here in CP were the same as in Macau. No they may not have Wi Fi like in Macau. I know now it is a little different but I still think it is possible to stay in them over night. Yes I would say in them over night even with all this "hype" about a raid.

Yeah I seen the police riding around in their little carts and I seen the road blocks having everyone get out of their cars and being checked. Those facts may be correct. There are traffic stops in EVERY country. After doing extensive study on many websites (not just ISG) before coming to CP and now being here on the ground. I can see it and experience it for myself.

When I am done with my trip and have time to compile notes I will write a full honest report. A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!

What people tend to forget is that LE can bust you even if there is not a crackdown going on and while CP seems to have greased all the right palms most of the time and things are are all smooth, you don't want to be the unlucky 1 out of a million.

[Pig Fat]

Of course BSD is going to report there is danger and try to scare everyone. He is a tour guide and gets paid to take people around.


When I am done with my trip and have time to compile notes I will write a full honest report. A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!

This would be some strange logic being applied by BSD. So let me get this straight, he is trying to win more business by scaring everyone away...? Hmmm...

This is your first time in CP, a lot of mongers who frequent CP (not just BSD) have written that everything was quiet and it was quite dangerous at that time. I have also spoken to a girl who I keep in touch with over there who confirmed the crackdowns and has told me of the dangers yet you, who has only been to CP once, for a short period of time can confirm that it is all bullshit...ok

[Pig Fat]

I will be moving permanently to Nancheng, DG in mid January which is not too far from CP (I believe only about 25mins by taxi or so) and I got to thinking that I would much rather prefer to have a second apartment in CP to take both WGs and freebies rather than my apartment at Nancheng.

OAH had a similar idea for Panyu years ago so that was the catalyst for this idea. I know there are a lot of guys who go to CP all the time and maybe they would prefer an apartment rather than a hotel where they could keep clothes, etc all year round (save on luggage). It would not have to be anything too fancy. The original idea was to split everything 50-50 but I am open to a user pays system. Anyways, anyone who is interested PM and we can work something out.

[Roni44]

Of course BSD is going to report there is danger and try to scare everyone. He is a tour guide and gets paid to take people around.

No this is NOT my first time in China but it is my first time in Changping. No I do not know how to speak Chinese. No I do not have anyone showing me around or protecting me. I don't need someone to hold my hand.

Everything you are "reading" about danger in CP is a scam! I am not saying it is not dangerous. But what you are "reading" is being blown way out of proportion.

I am getting premium BBS girls every day and night I have been here. Which pictures prove it. I have followed strangers down the darkest alleys went up dark flights of stairs to unfamiliar buildings. I was led to the so many BBS's stocked full of girls.

Yes I thought the Sauna's here in CP were the same as in Macau. No they may not have Wi Fi like in Macau. I know now it is a little different but I still think it is possible to stay in them over night. Yes I would say in them over night even with all this "hype" about a raid.

Yeah I seen the police riding around in their little carts and I seen the road blocks having everyone get out of their cars and being checked. Those facts may be correct. There are traffic stops in EVERY country. After doing extensive study on many websites (not just ISG) before coming to CP and now being here on the ground. I can see it and experience it for myself.

When I am done with my trip and have time to compile notes I will write a full honest report. A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!Dear Web connect,

While I appreciate your effort and reports. I usually hangout in Taiwan forum and lately due to my businesses, I find myself visiting Shenzhen, Dongguang, and CP often. I've been RTFF the Shenzhen forum and glad to have all the seniors on forum to share their expriences. I do have to disgree with you on what you said about BSD, from what I've read, I believe he truly is a standing up guy and yes he might make a few bucks showing people good times, but I don't see any reason why he would exggerate the clean up while many other forums from HK, TW, and China are reporting the clean up is happening. I wouldn't say you got lucky from your recent trip, but maybe you are just smarter have better senses compare to some of the mongers out there, BSD's warning is genuine and from he's good intention. Remind you I've never met BSD or have any affiliation with him as matter of fact this is my first post that ever mention his name. To me it's always better be safe then sorry especially you are not in your own turf.

[Santa]

A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!

Sorry Web Connect but you are Wrong!

Forum members who live in China, or have been to China many times and traveled extensively, can tell you of dozens of great locations that have been permanently closed. Raids can lead to permanent closures. The danger isn't so much about what might happen to you personally, the fear is that the venues will be closed down permanently. We have seen it before!

If you are caught in a raid, the chinese word for "mongerer" might be stamped in your passport and you might be ordered to leave the country and not come back.

Also, those reports of muggings and thefts are very true.

[Freepeaks]

Of course BSD is going to report there is danger and try to scare everyone. He is a tour guide and gets paid to take people around.

A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!

I do not think anyone saying CP is a warzone, simply that it is an urban area with crime like every other urban area. but because of the concentration of foreigners I have seen more crime there.

going solo where no one cares if you disappear is not a good idea.

BSD is reporting danger to give people a heads up - not to scare people to his business.. That is absurd. And I book hotel and car through him because if i have a problem or complaint he will resolve. If he makes a few bucks and I pay the same then good I gave my friend some business. Don't you ever give your friends business?

I have personally been with him twice during NM raids and he is calm under pressure. geesh what is a white guy doing out at 2am at the night market? BSD was like grab a drink and have a seat. Calm f**cker. He is simply putting the alert level up a notch. It is not business as usual in CP and by telling us so he is doing us a big favor. Anyone making plans has a chance to alter or make alternatives.

BSD - what is status of ChangAn anyway??

[Bob Builder]

I will be moving permanently to Nancheng, DG in mid January which is not too far from CP (I believe only about 25mins by taxi or so) and I got to thinking that I would much rather prefer to have a second apartment in CP to take both WGs and freebies rather than my apartment at Nancheng.

OAH had a similar idea for Panyu years ago so that was the catalyst for this idea. I know there are a lot of guys who go to CP all the time and maybe they would prefer an apartment rather than a hotel where they could keep clothes, etc all year round (save on luggage). It would not have to be anything too fancy. The original idea was to split everything 50-50 but I am open to a user pays system. Anyways, anyone who is interested PM and we can work something out.

Send a few more RMB and save yourself a headache. You would be better off renting a place and using it yourself. I have a place like this and everyone wants to use it but no one wants to run the place.

Who cleans up when the gals trash the bathroom and when friends let their friends use the place.

Too much hassle and administration.

Just MHO.

[Pig Fat]

Just get an auntie to clean the place once a week or something...

No friends are allowed to use the place, just the people renting the place. These are all things that can be worked out

[Gz Boy]

Oooops....double oooops - helluva typo I just wrote eh?

Fixed and would appreciate it if you will also edit your quote of my post to make sure that nobody here is gonna get the wrong impression.

Thanks a lot
Regards
SEAJ

SEAJ, it seems the Edit button is gone from my post. If you know how I can still edit it then let me know and I'll do it ASAP.

GZ

[OldAsiaHand]

when i am done with my trip and have time to compile notes i will write a full honest report. a lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure bullshit!

web connect,

you may be able to figure it out by yourself and go unrep001hed. for your sake, i hope so.

or, you may follow the wrong tout/mama and get kidnapped, robbed, beaten, etc. up those dark stairs in one of those dark alleys. it happens often enough to be vigilante. cp is full of thugs just waiting for cocky guys like you.

sorry, but i have seen and heard too much living in china over the years.

just my pov.

oah

p.s. i've lived in thailand and china for the last 25 years. this is why pig fat suggests i be consulted for comparisons. i think i have picked up a few tidbits along the way.

[RCA Knight]

About 10 years ago, a Singapore pal was caught in Shanghai hotel with his companion he just met in a disco. The police was checking all the rooms of his hotel for some criminal and knocked on his door.

They were in the middle of action and had to dressed and open the door, and gong an checked their IDs and they asked him what is the relation, he said his girlfriend, and then asked him whats her name, haha, he was dumbfounded.

He was lucky to get out of it with a hefty fine and spending a few hours in the police station making some paper works and also thanks to the ambiguous minimal age law for sex in China, the girl he picked from disco turned out to be 16 and 10 months old.

The funny part is before they released him back to hotel, they stamped the big red word 嫖 on his passport page, meaning visit to prostitute. When he left China he was laughed at the immigration. He still keeps this old passport as souvenir.

I think Chinese government stops stamping this red thing on punters now.

[Weelock]

I will be moving permanently to Nancheng, DG in mid January which is not too far from CP (I believe only about 25mins by taxi or so) and I got to thinking that I would much rather prefer to have a second apartment in CP to take both WGs and freebies rather than my apartment at Nancheng.

OAH had a similar idea for Panyu years ago so that was the catalyst for this idea. I know there are a lot of guys who go to CP all the time and maybe they would prefer an apartment rather than a hotel where they could keep clothes, etc all year round (save on luggage). It would not have to be anything too fancy. The original idea was to split everything 50-50 but I am open to a user pays system. Anyways, anyone who is interested PM and we can work something out.

I knew someone who was staying at the Miraton for 3 to 4 months at a time and was think about renting a place in CP. We went looking at some places in CP. He was getting a great rate at the hotel and decided later not to rent. He also didn't want to be stuck with a 6 month or 1 year lease. On the other hand, If the price difference was huge, he would have rented a place. I don't remember what he told me, but I guess it's about $230 rmb a night averaging the monthly rate out for the hotel room. This was 3 years ago. The prices for 4 star hotels in CP is relatively cheap. Now, if the Miraton was located in a city like Beijing, Guangzhou or Shenzhen, it will probably cost $600 to $1000 a night, then renting a place is more feasible like in a larger city. Next problem, most people don't stay more than a few weeks. There is really nothing to do expect for mongering because CP is a small town. Yes, you will save money by renting a place in the long run. I also know a few guys who moved and now live in CP for the fun.

1. Free breakfast and a discount for restaurants in hotel
2. 24 hr Security, a phone call for immediate help. This was a big help once at 1am. Three to four guys were at his door. They were friends of the girls he picked up, a scam.
3. Free Laundry (50 to 70 RMB a week )
4. Free maid service daily
5. Free internet and TV
6. Friendly staff who knew him
7. Transportation pickup and to/from train station
8. Close to shopping and restaurants
9. You can store your luggage at the hotel for about 6 months.
10. You don't have to clean up the place when you leave

Con renting:

1. More privacy
2. Cheaper than a hotel
3. A bigger place than a standard hotel room
4. You can cook your own meals

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION no offense

[Moody]

It's more than 25 minutes, at least during the daytime. It usually takes about 45 minutes or more. In the middle of the night, it can take 25 minutes when the cab driver is skanking all the red lights and driving like a maniac.


I will be moving permanently to Nancheng, DG in mid January which is not too far from CP (I believe only about 25mins by taxi or so)

[Pig Fat]

It's more than 25 minutes, at least during the daytime. It usually takes about 45 minutes or more. In the middle of the night, it can take 25 minutes when the cab driver is skanking all the red lights and driving like a maniac.

Really? I guessed 25mins because it didnt look that far on google...



I knew someone who was staying at the Miraton for 3 to 4 months at a time and was think about renting a place in CP. We went looking at some places in CP. He was getting a great rate at the hotel and decided later not to rent. He also didn't want to be stuck with a 6 month or 1 year lease. If the price difference was huge, he would have rented a place. I don't remember what he told me, but I guess it's about $230 a night averaging the monthly rate out for the hotel room. This was 3 years ago. The prices for 4 star hotels in CP is relatively cheap. Now, if the Miraton was located in a city like Beijing, Guangzhou or Shenzhen, it was probably cost $600 to $1000 a night, then renting a place is more feasible like in a larger city. Yes, you will save money by renting a place but most people don't stay more than a few weeks.

1. Free breakfast and a discount for restaurants in hotel
2. 24 hr Security, a phone call for immediate help. This was a big help once at 1am. Three to four guys were at his door. There were friends of the girls he picked up, a scam.
3. Free Laundry (50 to 70 RMB a week )
4. Free maid service daily
5. Free internet
6. Friendly staff who knew him
7. Transportation pickup and to/from train station
8. Close to shopping and restaurants
9. You can store your luggage at the hotel for about 6 months.
10. You don't have to clean up the place when you leave

Con renting:

1. More privacy
2. A little cheaper than a hotel
3. A bigger place than a standard hotel room
4. You can cook your own meals


I dont understand what you mean by the rates. You saying that the monthly rate he was paying at the miraton at the time was an average of 230RMB a night (so if you timed it by 30 it would be 6900RMB?)?

Does anyone have any idea how much it would cost to have a room at a hotel at a monthly rate nowadays?

[Weelock]

Really? I guessed 25mins because it didnt look that far on google...




I dont understand what you mean by the rates. You saying that the monthly rate he was paying at the miraton at the time was an average of 230RMB a night (so if you timed it by 30 it would be 6900RMB?)?

Does anyone have any idea how much it would cost to have a room at a hotel at a monthly rate nowadays?

230 a day for a hotel room
30 days in a month

Yes, 230 X 30 = 6900RMB a month. It might have been even cheaper or a little higher.

We looked at some rental places and some were brand new but were too far away. I know you can find some good places to rent for just 3000 RMB a month but you have to add all the other things that comes with the hotel.

If you are serious, you can call the Miraton for a monthly rate. Some other member might know what is the monthly rate now for the Miraton to compare. There is also a business rate but you have to sign a contract.

[Big Swingin Dave]

The soft opening of the new Swan Lake KTV has been pushed back again until Saturday, 11/28 with the official opening on 12/1. The Swan Lake has a really nice make-over with a new lobby, new Footie, and the soon newly renovated KTV. There will also be newly renovated hotel rooms in Building B, prices have yet to be determined and will be reported once known.

Got a preview of the new place today, the manager told me that there will be 120 plus rooms and an additional 45 opening earlier next year which will make this location the biggest KTV in Chang Ping. Approximately 500 WGs have signed up with SWL.

More to follow.

BSD

[Big Swingin Dave]

Back by popular demand, went back to the Century Flower Club (a.k.a. New Flower Club) in Chang An. All the ladies came dressed in uniforms but were told to change at 8pm. Girls are in two categories: 2-6-8 and 3-8-12. The 3-8-12 girls do not strip inside the room. All 5 guys took girls out with 4 back to CP and a car arranged for the WGs to back to CA at noon today.

All the KTVs and Saunas are opened, there are reports of casual searches by local officals.

Chang An WGs are quite fun and spending an evening at this fun town is highly recommended for those spending 3 or more days in CP to go there for at least a day trip.

BSD

[Big Swingin Dave]

Anyone interested in renting a place in CP needs to know that you are required to sign a minimal 6 months rent at any decent place in town. Rent ranges anywhere between 1200 - 1500 for one bedroom which includes furniture, including stove and washer. Remember, you will also need to pay maintenance fee and utilities so total cost is approximately 2000RMB per month which is still cheaper than staying in a hotel. It is best to use a real estate agent to find your best suitable place. The move in cost will be, two months deposit, one months rent, real estate agent fee (50% of one month's rent), cable tv fee (168 for six months), internet fee (1000 for six months) will quite expensive so unless you plan to stay in C.P. for an extensive period of time, it may not be worthwhile to rent a place on your own. Also, when you rent a place, you will need to buy a lot of things, i.e. blankets, pillows, cleaning products, cooking products, dishes, pans, laundry detergent, etc. etc.

BSD

[BruceTea]

The Swan Lake has a really nice make-over with a new lobby, new Footie, and the soon newly renovated KTV. There will also be newly renovated hotel rooms in Building B, prices have yet to be determined and will be reported once known.




Will there be a Sauna in the hotel?

The street has lots of KTVs, but only one Sauna, Mei Bao.

[Big Swingin Dave]

Will there be a Sauna in the hotel?

The street has lots of KTVs, but only one Sauna, Mei Bao.

The Swan Lake Sauna has temporary relocated to another town approximately 10 minutes away. The Sauna rooms are being renovated and should reopen in December. Once everything is done, the Swan Lake with it's prime location could be the best option hotel on Swan Lake road.

BSD

[Nomsgpls]

Of course BSD is going to report there is danger and try to scare everyone. He is a tour guide and gets paid to take people around.

No this is NOT my first time in China but it is my first time in Changping. No I do not know how to speak Chinese. No I do not have anyone showing me around or protecting me. I don't need someone to hold my hand.

Everything you are "reading" about danger in CP is a scam! I am not saying it is not dangerous. But what you are "reading" is being blown way out of proportion.

I am getting premium BBS girls every day and night I have been here. Which pictures prove it. I have followed strangers down the darkest alleys went up dark flights of stairs to unfamiliar buildings. I was led to the so many BBS's stocked full of girls.

Yes I thought the Sauna's here in CP were the same as in Macau. No they may not have Wi Fi like in Macau. I know now it is a little different but I still think it is possible to stay in them over night. Yes I would say in them over night even with all this "hype" about a raid.

Yeah I seen the police riding around in their little carts and I seen the road blocks having everyone get out of their cars and being checked. Those facts may be correct. There are traffic stops in EVERY country. After doing extensive study on many websites (not just ISG) before coming to CP and now being here on the ground. I can see it and experience it for myself.

When I am done with my trip and have time to compile notes I will write a full honest report. A lot of what is posted in old threads about the danger is pure BULLSHIT!Wow what a cocky attitude to have. Haven't you heard the phrase that it's better to be safe than sorry? Guess it doesn't register in your mind that you're a complete stranger in someone's backyard and don't speak a single word of mandrain. Hope you don't go down the wrong dark alley. LOL.

Just another showoff trying to prove how brave or streetsmart that he is.

[Web Connect]

What people tend to forget is that LE can bust you even if there is not a crackdown going on and while CP seems to have greased all the right palms most of the time and things are are all smooth, you don't want to be the unlucky 1 out of a million.Show me me where 1 foreigner has EVER been busted or arrested for hiring an over age working girl!

I wanted right past the LE's with a girl in fish net stockings and legs up to her neck. It was VERY obvious she was a working girl. They did'nt pay no mind.

All this hype about a crack down is being blown WAY out of proportion. The BBS's that I am visiting are in full swing and stocked full.

But keep scaring away everyone. Just means more for me!

[Toki Jo]

The Swan Lake Sauna has temporary relocated to another town approximately 10 minutes away. The Sauna rooms are being renovated and should reopen in December. Once everything is done, the Swan Lake with it's prime location could be the best option hotel on Swan Lake road.

BSD

Is Swan Lake near Hui Hau Hotel back of CP railway staion or Jiayi KTV please

[Web Connect]

This would be some strange logic being applied by BSD. So let me get this straight, he is trying to win more business by scaring everyone away.? Hmmm.

This is your first time in CP, a lot of mongers who frequent CP (not just BSD) have written that everything was quiet and it was quite dangerous at that time. I have also spoken to a girl who I keep in touch with over there who confirmed the crackdowns and has told me of the dangers yet you, who has only been to CP once, for a short period of time can confirm that it is all bullshit. OkWhy is it strange logic? Not scaring away. Scaring people to think the only way to get laid in CP is hire someone to show you around.

Where are you right now?

Are you in Changping?

Where are all these others who frequent Changping?

Are they in Changping right now???

I am here right now getting girls EVERY day and night. Visiting multiple BBS's that I found on my own all with in less than 24 hours. With OUT the help of any locals. I don't speak or read a word of Chinese. It is NOT that hard.

Why should it matter if it is the first time I am in CP for only a short period of time? Or if I don't have a high post count.

I am going by the facts I am seeing and experiencing right here right now!

[Web Connect]

Dear Web connect,

While I appreciate your effort and reports. I do have to disgree with you on what you said about BSD, from what I've read, I believe he truly is a standing up guy and yes he might make a few bucks showing people good times, but I don't see any reason why he would exggerate the clean up while many other forums from HK, TW, and China are reporting the clean up is happening. I wouldn't say you got lucky from your recent trip, but maybe you are just smarter have better senses compare to some of the mongers out there, BSD's warning is genuine and from he's good intention. Remind you I've never met BSD or have any affiliation with him as matter of fact this is my first post that ever mention his name. To me it's always better be safe then sorry especially you are not in your own turf.That is correct. If I was lucky I would be in Macao at the tables instead of Changping. Maybe I have a little more traveling and life experience than others which makes it easier for me to get laid in strange cities.

If people need to hire a guide and want to get shown around I have nothing agianst it.

I have never met BSD either and I have also "read" he is a stand up guy. I "read" he runs a great service. I am not trying to bash his business. Everyone has a right to earn a buck. Everyone's time and effort is valuable and has a price.

If there is a crackdown going on right now. Then for sure I want to be here when everything is going full throttle. Because Changping is AMAZING. Even with this so called crack down going on!

[Web Connect]

Sorry Web Connect but you are Wrong!

Forum members who live in China, or have been to China many times and traveled extensively, can tell you of dozens of great locations that have been permanently closed. Raids can lead to permanent closures. The danger isn't so much about what might happen to you personally, the fear is that the venues will be closed down permanently. We have seen it before!

If you are caught in a raid, the chinese word for "mongerer" might be stamped in your passport and you might be ordered to leave the country and not come back.

Also, those reports of muggings and thefts are very true.I am sure more than dozens of great locations have been closed permanently. And I am sure dozens of NEW great locations have opened.

If I got the Chinese word for "monger" stamped in my passport. That would be the proudest day of my life. I would be a badge of honor. It would be I succeeded.

How do you know all those mugging and theft reports are true??? Do you believe EVERYthing you read on the internet!

[Web Connect]

I do not think anyone saying CP is a warzone, simply that it is an urban area with crime like every other urban area. But because of the concentration of foreigners I have seen more crime there.

SE Asia Joe compared CP to Harlem or South Central LA.




And if you are a foreigner. Just the mere act of taking pictures on the street may be bringing all that more/too much attention to yourself. It's akin to you taking general pictures in Harlem or South Central LA if you are white.

SEAJI shot ever 800 candid pictures of girls in the street. So how is CP compared to the danger levels of Harlem or South Central LA? (I don't even think Harlem or South Central LA is that dangerous)

I am not seeing any foreigners in the street. Maybe they are all scared to come here after reading all the stories on the internet.

[Web Connect]

web connect,

you may be able to figure it out by yourself and go unrep001hed. for your sake, i hope so.

or, you may follow the wrong tout/mama and get kidnapped, robbed, beaten, etc. up those dark stairs in one of those dark alleys. it happens often enough to be vigilante. cp is full of thugs just waiting for cocky guys like you.

sorry, but i have seen and heard too much living in china over the years.

just my pov.

oah

p.s. i've lived in thailand and china for the last 25 years. this is why pig fat suggests i be consulted for comparisons. i think i have picked up a few tidbits along the way.it won't be the first time i got into a fight and i am sure it won't be the last. but i would rather fight and die than tap out. there is no way i am going to give up the money i worked so hard for. even more so it is a matter of principle. i would not be able to live the rest of my life knowing i punked out.

you may be hearing about some dead or beaten thugs who tried to rob a foreigner before you will ever hear about me giving in so easy.

so what are your comparisons when it comes to cost?

i know for a fact i am saving a lot more by not drinking or buying lds. but when it comes to cp suana's compared to pattaya soapies. for sure cp is way more expensive. but of course it is comparing apples and oranges.

[Web Connect]

The Swan Lake Sauna has temporary relocated to another town approximately 10 minutes away. The Sauna rooms are being renovated and should reopen in December.

BSDNo need to drive 10 minutes because they still have a ton of girls to choose from on Floor 7. I know for a fact because I got one.

400/500. 2 hours. Suana Hotel Room charge is 88.

I went for a 500 model. (I don't care if I got ripped off or did'nt pay the local price). She was tall and very good service. Was able to get off 2 SOG. Great BBJ, AR, multiple positions.

Have pics and will post a full report later.

[SE Asia Joe]

SE Asia Joe compared CP to Harlem or South Central LA.

I shot ever 800 candid pictures of girls in the street. So how is CP compared to the danger levels of Harlem or South Central LA? (I don't even think Harlem or South Central LA is that dangerous)

I am not seeing any foreigners in the street. Maybe they are all scared to come here after reading all the stories on the internet.
Web Con - I'm not sure what your problem is and what is it that you're trying to prove.

Your attitude and retort reminds me once again why I - and most of us here - will not bother/should not reply to newbies asking questions and assistance.

I've read back a few pages and a lot of us - myself included - had extended you the courtesy of giving you answers and our take as far as we know it. And you come back bashing one and all?

Yes, this is the internet - but I would think that a bit of civility - never mind gratitude - would have been in order.

OK, you're in CP - well I just got back from 4 days there - and YES, there has been NO discernible crackdown the whole 4 days I was there up to this morning as far as I could determine - and thus you came in AFTER the CRACKDOWN WHICH DID OCCUR BETWEEN NOV 12 - 16. (I WAS there at the time)

Bully for you that you've managed to have a great time and bully for you that you could take care of yourself - just don't give us this attitude. OK?

Thanks

SEAJ

[Pig Fat]

Why is it strange logic? Not scaring away.



So you werent scared away while the crackdowns were happening???


Ok thanks for the info.

If they are trying to discourage people from visiting CP only for monger tourism it worked. I canceled my trip.

With in 2 hours of my flight I said f it. I could'nt get the money back on my flight and lost 1 night deposit on my hotel but it is better than having blue balls for a few weeks.

My visa is still good for a few months so I will continue to read this forum and when / if things pick up agian I will be there to join you guys.


Wasnt that you with the above quote? Of course, you went back when the crackdowns were finished and are reporting that the crackdowns were exaggerated. So what was it? Was BSD scaring people away or wasnt he? Your actions seemed to indicate you were.


Maybe I have a little more traveling and life experience than others which makes it easier for me to get laid in strange cities.


You are a true inspiration to all of us...


It won't be the first time I got into a fight and I am sure it won't be the last. But I would rather fight and die than tap out. There is no way I am going to give up the money I worked so hard for. Even more so it is a matter of principle. I would not be able to live the rest of my life knowing I punked out.

You may be hearing about some dead or beaten thugs who tried to rob a foreigner before you will ever hear about me giving in so easy.


You da man~!

Wanker

[Bob Builder]

Web Con - I'm not sure what your problem is and what is it that you're trying to prove.

Your attitude and retort reminds me once again why I - and most of us here - will not bother/should not reply to newbies asking questions and assistance.

I've read back a few pages and a lot of us - myself included - had extended you the courtesy of giving you answers and our take as far as we know it. And you come back bashing one and all?

Yes, this is the internet - but I would think that a bit of civility - never mind gratitude - would have been in order.

OK, you're in CP - well I just got back from 4 days there - and YES, there has been NO discernible crackdown the whole 4 days I was there up to this morning as far as I could determine - and thus you came in AFTER the CRACKDOWN WHICH DID OCCUR BETWEEN NOV 12 - 16. (I WAS there at the time)

Bully for you that you've managed to have a great time and bully for you that you could take care of yourself - just don't give us this attitude. OK?

Thanks

SEAJ

Why do you fall for the bait so easily?

Some guys do it their way and nothing seems to happen to them or you never hear about it if it does.

At least he is posting about his trip which a lot don't, even if you don't agree with what he says and his attitude.

[SE Asia Joe]

If you're interested, I just posted a couple articles from today's South China Morning Post about the crackdown/prostitution in Dongguan in the Living in China thread

SEAJ

[Web Connect]

Wow what a cocky attitude to have. Haven't you heard the phrase that it's better to be safe than sorry? Guess it doesn't register in your mind that you're a complete stranger in someone's backyard and don't speak a single word of mandrain. Hope you don't go down the wrong dark alley. LOL.

Just another showoff trying to prove how brave or streetsmart that he is.Thanks for joining the board just so you can post me a message. I feel honored.

I have heard the phrase "better to be safe than sorry". This hobby we participate in is not safe to start with. It has many dangers. If you want safe maybe you should take up Knitting.

I respect the Chinese all the way back to Genghis Khan. I like the mongols commandment " Respect Few. Fear None"

I am not sure if you understand. Following a stranger down a dark alley is the ONLY way to find a BBS on your own.

Maybe you should change your user name to Nancy.

[Web Connect]

Web Con - I'm not sure what your problem is and what is it that you're trying to prove.

Your attitude and retort reminds me once again why I - and most of us here - will not bother/should not reply to newbies asking questions and assistance.

I've read back a few pages and a lot of us - myself included - had extended you the courtesy of giving you answers and our take as far as we know it. And you come back bashing one and all?

Yes, this is the internet - but I would think that a bit of civility - never mind gratitude - would have been in order.

Thanks

SEAJI have no real problems. (I kicked those years ago).

To be honest a lot of the most recent info (with in the 6 months) posted here on ISG is to discourage a first timer from coming here. The information is very misleading. For example why would some of the guys here encourage a first timer to stay at The Clipper unless they are making a commission from it or want to keep them in an area away from the main strip. When there is the Miraton, Hui Hau (Not that much more price wise) and New Century (same price as The Clipper). All centrally located and much better quality for price.

I have already gotten PM's and read posts about how you reply to newbies asking questions and assistance. There are a lot members here with lower post counts who are very knowlegable on mongering in general. Just because a member has a high post count does'nt make the more experienced.

Why do you desearve gratitude? You try to discourage me from taking candid pictures in public. You tried to make CP seem much more dangerous than it really is.

[Web Connect]

So you werent scared away while the crackdowns were happening?

Wasnt that you with the above quote? Of course, you went back when the crackdowns were finished and are reporting that the crackdowns were exaggerated. So what was it? Was BSD scaring people away or wasnt he? Your actions seemed to indicate you were.

You are a true inspiration to all of us.

You da man !

WankerIf you learned to read you will see I was discouraged. NOT scared.

At the time I did'nt think it was wise to spend a few thousand dollars on a flight and hotels when I have never been to Changping. But after reading OTHER forums and PMin with a few people on the ground. I decided to rebook my flight.

Yes from reading OTHER forums and being on the ground I do truly beleive there are members here on ISG who make it a point to scare people. BSD kindly offered to show me around for a price, I declined because if I can't do it on my own than what is the point.

[Web Connect]

If you're interested, I just posted a couple articles from today's South China Morning Post about the crackdown/prostitution in Dongguan in the Living in China thread

SEAJThanks for posting those articles.

The titles of the articles are:

Party chief vows to crack down but excessive measures will be avoided

Crackdown fails to scare Dongguan's sex-trade veterans

After reading both articles. That mean business as usual.

[Member #4515]

I am not a guide and I also give waring to the people come to CP. You think the danger there is bullshit and please don't give wrong idea to those newbie.

I am happy for you that you are seem very smoothly during your stay there. But next time and maybe next next time, I do hope you are always so lucky.

[Pointpanic]

Joe,

Thanks for posting the articles from SCMP. They certainly add clarity to the situation. I love the fact that the reporter provides names of all the relevant parties. Did several tours of the regular BBS's and was glad to see that they were all doing ok, but very cautious business (altered locations, lights out, lots of security and look outs). Great selection of gals at all of them. Wish I could have stayed longer. My thanks to BSD and the rest of the guys from New York and Toronto. It was great to see LA Monkey and Jettsetter and Bruce Tea who even caught me on the street with a little cutie. Bruce, by the way she was a great girlfriend but you wouldn't have liked her as she wouldn't have fit your criteria. Joe, I solved the first evening crackdown delimma by picking up two out of work Jiayi girls and headed for Shenzhen for a couple of days and had a great time with them there before returning to CP. By the way BSD there is a frenetically thin but healthy Fujian 23 yo at Bandao with exceptional english speaking and other oral skills with an english name that I discovered on my last evening which bears repeating.

Point

[Web Connect]

Before I planned my trip I posted some questions about shooting candid photography in Changping. These are the responses I got from some of the members:


I wouldn't do it for safety reasons. As reported, someone got into a fight with some local guys in CP after snapping pics on the street.
Problem is, in CP (the main areas where all the action is), there are so many WGs on the street, pimps for those WGs, and P4P establishments. It's not easy to shoot street life in every general without getting some of the above in your picture.
I would suggest strongly that you be very careful when shooting "general pictures" in CP as there are a lot of people who are very sensitive about this I. E. The married mongers, the working gals, the bad boys, the pimps etc and even the LE who may or may not be under cover who definitely do not want to have ANY pictures taken. In fact if you read a few pages back, we had an actual case of one of our members getting his head bashed in badly when all he was doing was just taking "general pixs"

And if you are a foreigner. Just the mere act of taking pictures on the street may be bringing all that more/too much attention to yourself. It's akin to you taking general pictures in Harlem or South Central LA if you are white.Well I have already shot over 800 candid pictures of general life in the street on Changping. It is not as dangerous as these members say. But then again I have over 20 years experience shooting candid photography. It is what I do everywhere I go.

Here are a few samples of my shots in CP. If anyone else has an interest in Candid Photography please send me a PM and I will give you access to the full size shots.

[Roni44]

Web connect, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I think people here on the forum has gotten great services from BSD and kinda [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off of you discredit him for the hospitality he has shown. Given, not everyone here is brave enough like you to venture out on their own exploring CP. If BSD shows the way for newbies, saving them some mula at same time, by all mean it's pretty cool deal and on top of that newbies are getting the best CP has to offer. By next time I'm sure the newbies will gather enough information from BSD and venture out on their own. My point is while I speak fluent Chinese, and have been to quite of few cities in China, I'm still bit concern as to a new city I've never set my foot in. If I ever set my foot in CP, I'm glad to have BSD show me around and I'll ask him enough information so my future visits will not require his service. However, I'll treat him as a friend who shares same hobby and invite him for a dinner or beer on my every visits to CP. And the same goes for you, if we were ever in CP same times, lets get together and party. To me isn't nice to have friends who shares the same hobby especially on other side of the world.

[Nomsgpls]

Thanks for joining the board just so you can post me a message. I feel honored.

I have heard the phrase "better to be safe than sorry". This hobby we participate in is not safe to start with. It has many dangers. If you want safe maybe you should take up Knitting.

I respect the Chinese all the way back to Genghis Khan. I like the mongols commandment " Respect Few. Fear None"

I am not sure if you understand. Following a stranger down a dark alley is the ONLY way to find a BBS on your own.

Maybe you should change your user name to Nancy.Go and stick your head out and showoff your gungho attitude and keep telling yourself and others the place is safe to venture out on your own. Just don't get unlucky enough to get kinapped or even killed out on the streets. Or maybe you're just hiding in your room all this while, typing away and trying to be a hero.

[Web Connect]

Web connect, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, I think people here on the forum has gotten great services from BSD and kinda [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off of you discredit him for the hospitality he has shown. Given, not everyone here is brave enough like you to venture out on their own exploring CP. If BSD shows the way for newbies, saving them some mula at same time, by all mean it's pretty cool deal and on top of that newbies are getting the best CP has to offer. By next time I'm sure the newbies will gather enough information from BSD and venture out on their own. My point is while I speak fluent Chinese, and have been to quite of few cities in China, I'm still bit concern as to a new city I've never set my foot in. If I ever set my foot in CP, I'm glad to have BSD show me around and I'll ask him enough information so my future visits will not require his service.It is not as much hospitality if it is a paid service. If people want to use a paid guide I really don't care. How is a newbie saving mula when they are paying a person?

All the BBSs locations are listed on this site. (I will make some maps with the exact locations) All you have to do is go there and there will be numerous amount of runners to show you the exact way and locations of the BBSs. You don't have to pay them directly. They get a cut from the BBS.

The prices are 50 RMB or 100 RMB to the BBS, 100 RMB to the girl. How is BSD going to save you mula on that?

All I was saying is that there are a lot of posts here on this site that are made to try to scare people into thinking you need someone to hold your hand when you come to Changping or you won't be able to get laid.

[BruceTea]

To be honest a lot of the most recent info (with in the 6 months) posted here on ISG is to discourage a first timer from coming here. The information is very misleading.


The last 6 months had 3 major crackdowns; one at the end of July, another for clean up for the October 1 celebration, and the recent ones in mid November. There may be more.

Factor that with a sudden drop of the Asian economy earlier this year which somewhat affected companies with factories all over DG, contributing to crime ranging from petty theft to assault and robbery. Not the best of times to be in CP as the fun is always there, but so are the cops and desperate hoodlums.


For example why would some of the guys here encourage a first timer to stay at The Clipper unless they are making a commission from it or want to keep them in an area away from the main strip. When there is the Miraton, Hui Hau (Not that much more price wise) and New Century (same price as The Clipper). All centrally located and much better quality for price.


For a first timer to CP (or any city in China or all over the world), hotel names are just that, hotel names. Even if you have a list of all the hotels in CP, the locations of the hotels, and the price, which would you choose? You'd most likely ask for advice. The decision is up to you, but one's advice is just as good as another's. After all, since this is (would be) your first trip and don't know one single person on this thread, who would know what you're looking for? Price would matter, but location (all locations have pros/cons) would not mean anything as again, you have never been to CP (and do not speak and I presume not read Chinese) so street names are a bunch of meaningless characters. And now you're knocking a resident of CP's advice?

Now that you've been to CP once (still waiting for your reports), you can compare hotels, BBSs, KTVs, girls, restaurants, etc. with your own judgement. So make your report, your comparisons, and your own opinions, and when you return to CP, go to the places you are comfortable with.

But no need to call out people who offer advice when you asked for it in the first place.

[Donwon]

I have been travelling to China for the last 5 years and have always been able to find girls in BBS's and sauna's easily without any problem or assistance. Like you I usually like to venture on my own and discover different areas and have never had the assistance of a guide like BSD. However, I am always cautious and always have my guard up as I am not on my own turf. I previously have been to CP twice and have had great experiences and even picked up a freebie once from the Rainbow mall.

Anyway, this time around I wanted KTV action as I have never experienced this. Hooked up with BSD on Nov 12, who put myself and a friend up at the the Swan Lake. Although away from the strip(I am more familiar with the area around the Lucky, Miraton, Hui Mei etc), the rooms were fantastic and the price was right. Well when we got to CP we needed to get some sauna action. Apparently, everything was shut down but Dave was able to find us one that was operating discreetly. Picked a Hubei gal and paid $488. Service was OK but I was disappointed there was no shower bed like what you find in Zuihai as they were operating out of a hotel room due to the crackdown. That evening Dave hooked us up with Jim Traveller at the Manhattan KTV. Apparently, no other places were open and the girls were in their street clothes as the mamas paraded their girls in. Picked a Dongbei gal, which was a great pick. Turned out it was her first day as she was was attentive and classy when I later hooked up with her. Anyway, as we commenced into the evening, well it was like just 10 minutes into the party, when the music suddenly stopped. In walked a staff member and we were told we had to leave immediately. We were told to exit the stairs and I must say this was nerve wrecking. Gals and us started pouring down the stairs. It was like a freakin fire drill and I can't remember how many floors we had to go down but it seemed to go on forever. Also, as we went down the first few floors the doors would spring open and out flowed the gals and staff members and each time I thought it was the freakin LE. LOL. All this time Dave was as cool as a cucumber and assured us we had nothing to worry. He had taken the girls phone numbers down and we were able to meet the gals in a restaurant and then took them back to the hotel later. Kept her for ST as I didn't feel to good about the situation that nite.

Anyway, all in all I think that Dave was a great help during this trip and to all new mongers my advise is that if you head to CP it is important that you hook up with guys like Dave who are in the know. Also, people like Dave can hook you up with Fellow mongers.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php) for more information.

[Web Connect]

The last 6 months had 3 major crackdowns; one at the end of July, another for clean up for the October 1 celebration, and the recent ones in mid November. There may be more.

Factor that with a sudden drop of the Asian economy earlier this year which somewhat affected companies with factories all over DG, contributing to crime ranging from petty theft to assault and robbery. Not the best of times to be in CP as the fun is always there, but so are the cops and desperate hoodlums.So what?

That does'nt mean you need to pay a guide to get you laid or pay for protection!

[Web Connect]

For a first timer to CP (or any city in China or all over the world), hotel names are just that, hotel names. Even if you have a list of all the hotels in CP, the locations of the hotels, and the price, which would you choose? You'd most likely ask for advice. The decision is up to you, but one's advice is just as good as another's. After all, since this is (would be) your first trip and don't know one single person on this thread, who would know what you're looking for? Price would matter, but location (all locations have pros/cons) would not mean anything as again, you have never been to CP (and do not speak and I presume not read Chinese) so street names are a bunch of meaningless characters. And now you're knocking a resident of CP's advice?Before I plan of booking a hotel I research it on a mainstream travel site (travel advisor), I found there is very little information on the mainstream sites for Changping. I went with the info on ISG. I have NEVER been to CP in my life and NO I don't speak a word or understand a word of Chinese. The online registration for The Clipper does'nt work, so yes I asked BSD to make a reservation already knowing he makes a commission from it.

Dave and Joe share a rented apartment at the Manhattan which is right across from The Clipper. So I am sure that makes it very convenient for Dave to keep an eye on his customers. The reasons for him wanting people to stay at The Clipper is obvious isn't it? If someone here on ISG is going to ask for advise. The members should give them HONEST advise that is in no way directly posted to advance their business. If that is the case they should be paying to advertise.

As soon as I arrived at The Clipper in the Taxi from the train station I knew I was being misinformed by the so called upstanding members of ISG. I did'nt even bother checking in and moved to a different hotel.

Yes I am still working on writing my reports which will be honest and well detailed. But if you want a short quick version of all the hotels I have stayed in so far:

#1 is the Miraton based on location and service. The rooms and accommodations are 5 Star but the food and restaurant could use a little improvement. I would still choose to stay at the Miraton but enjoyed the buffets at the Hui Hua more.

#2 is The Hui Hau is also 5 star. Located right next to the Miraton. No LCD TV and the reception wasn't as good as the Miraton.

#3 is the New Century. Right down the street and short walking distance from the Miraton and Hui Hau. The heat did'nt work in my room and the rooms aren't as nice at the Miraton and Hui Hau but nice for the price. It is a 4 star.

If you have a "guide" reserve the room for you they will be making a commission. You will be paying double what you would pay if you just checked in yourself.

Miraton Hotel: Deluxe Single Room

Guide Price: 660 RMB

Your price: 328 RMB

Hui Hua Hotel: Superior Room

Guide Price: 710 RMB

Your price: 329 RMB

New Century Hotel: Deluxe Single Room

Guide Price: 638 RMB

Your price: 298 RMB

So how much is The Clipper's prices again and why would anyone want to suggest a newbie stay there?

[Web Connect]

now that you've been to cp once (still waiting for your reports), you can compare hotels, bbss, ktvs, girls, restaurants, etc. with your own judgement. so make your report, your comparisons, and your own opinions, and when you return to cp, go to the places you are comfortable with.

but no need to call out people who offer advice when you asked for it in the first place.i will start with the ktv's.

disclaimer

this report was written by, and from the perspective of a middle-aged guy with brown eyes and brown hair who doesn't speak a word of chinese. i have 15 years of extensive traveling experience to different parts of the world. i have a middle income budget with out a company expense account.

if you're ethnic chinese, black, middle eastern., or have a company expense account you may have completely different experiences. my report is only relevant for fellow laowais who is traveling for the first time to changping.

getting there:

by train from hk:

hung hom station. take the east bound train to lo wu. cross the border in shenzhen. take train from shezhen to dongguan. will take 28 minutes.

taxi from dongguan train station to hotel 10 rmb

by car from hk airport:

mini van car service e&e car service

a08 exit a terminal 1 | or co4, terminal 2

takes about 2 hours, easier border crossing 220 rmb

timing

i am in changping in late november 2009 during a so called crackdown.

statistics: so far 5 days /5 nights

st: 10 1/2

lt: 0

foot massage: 2

foot / body massage: 3

sauna fs: 2

bbs: 9

sw: 1

hj. 1 1/2

[size="5"]ktv

the system:

for those of you that do not know what a ktv is and how is works here is a short discription.

ktv means karaoke television. you get a room which has a minimum charge, you have a karaoke machine, can choose girls to sit/party with, order bottles of alchol and food. it is not cheap if you goal is to just get laid.

most of the more ktvs in changping are 2-5-8. what do these numbers mean?

- the first number is the sitting fee (200 rmb).

- the second number is the st price (500 rmb).

- the third number is the lt price (800 rmb).

the problem:

if you ask a girl to sit with you, you have a 15 minute grace period, which gives you the time to see if there is any chemistry between you and the girl. most of the girls do not speak english, at the time i was there they were all dressed in long pants and winter jackets. even with a small space heater the rooms where freezing cold as a meat meat locker. some girls are dressed in long gowns. not a good oppurtunity to see what the girls body looks like. if the girl sits with you for longer than 15 minutes, you have to pay the sitting fee.

i do not have any interest in paying a girl to just sit with me and pay for her to get drunk and eat with out the guarentee she i am going to have sex with her. the ktv girls are not obligated to go with you even if you paid her sitting fee, got her drunk and fed her.

the sitting fee for a ktv girl will cost you he same as a st from a bbs, i don't think the girls are any more hotter than what you could find at a bbs. they are not any more sofisticated or educated. they the same as any other girl from the province.

the cost:

in addtion to the cost of the girls there are additional expenses added. the ktv rooms have a minimum charge, which is usually very expensive. you have tip for the dj/waitress. the food and drinks are expensive also.

the ktv experience will cost you a lot. if you are on a healthy company expense account, very rich or just don't care then you may enjoy it.

the statement: if you are doing business with a chineese company, a ktv may be the place they take you to do the final hand shake on the deal. it is a good place to get drunk with a group. for some people who have worked hard or came across a lot of money in their life it may be the place for you.

the singing:

karaoke is not as popular in western countries as it is in the east. if you hate listening to an amateur sing off pitch at a ear cracking volume then most likely a ktv is not the place for you. even worse you have to suffer to chinese songs which you don't even understand. i would rather stab myself in the eye with a rusty nail.

the ktv girls:

there seems to be hundreds of ktvs all over changping from the big ones reputed to have over 200+ or even more girls each to the small ktvs rep001tered though out the city, there must be 1000s of ktv girls in changping.

even though the ktvs are more expensive from my little experience at the prince ktv i did'nt think the girls are any more better looking that what you can find at a bbs. i did'nt think they are any more sofisticated than a bbs girl or any more educated. they are not dressed in bikinis or underwear so it is hard to really see their body. the long evening gowns i suppose are to make they look more elegant but to me it is just a costume.

the option:

in my opinion, ktv is not for sex tourist monger. the sex only driven tourist will not have interest in a ktv, unless they function like bbs. from what i experienced, if you show up at the some of the ktvs that are open in the afternoon or around 3:00 pm some of the girls can be taken out for a st without having to suffer with the singing and room miniums.

the conclusion:

ktv may be part of chinese culture, i have experinced the same in other asian counties but never go to them unless invited by a friend who is part of that scene and culture. some people really enjoy singing, drinking and eating at a inflated amount. i repect that, but if you are just trying to get laid like myself i would stick to the bbs. i am sure a ktv may be a good place to finalize and celebrate substantial business account on a company expense account.

editor's note: i would suggest that the author or another forum member consider posting a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please click here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php) for more information.

[Zhuren]

I respect the Chinese all the way back to Genghis Khan.

That pretty much sums up what this poster boy knows about China.

[Bob Builder]

The last 6 months had 3 major crackdowns; one at the end of July, another for clean up for the October 1 celebration, and the recent ones in mid November. There may be more.

Factor that with a sudden drop of the Asian economy earlier this year which somewhat affected companies with factories all over DG, contributing to crime ranging from petty theft to assault and robbery. Not the best of times to be in CP as the fun is always there, but so are the cops and desperate hoodlums.



The guy says that he is not worried about getting caught mongering and not scared of any thugs there so why are you wasting your time?

And it has not stopped a lot of the regular posters here going either.

[Ozirob]

Last night was at the Royal Garden and they did not have the normal selection room operating. We were ushered into the singing room and girls were brought out from fire stairwells and walked into the room for selection.

This is a large operation, and i was quite surprised that they were reduced to doing the business this way!

End result though was a great night, lots of fun with willing girls!

Ozirob.

[SE Asia Joe]

I have no real problems. (I kicked those years ago).

To be honest a lot of the most recent info (with in the 6 months) posted here on ISG is to discourage a first timer from coming here. The information is very misleading. For example why would some of the guys here encourage a first timer to stay at The Clipper unless they are making a commission from it or want to keep them in an area away from the main strip. When there is the Miraton, Hui Hau (Not that much more price wise) and New Century (same price as The Clipper). All centrally located and much better quality for price.

I have already gotten PM's and read posts about how you reply to newbies asking questions and assistance. There are a lot members here with lower post counts who are very knowlegable on mongering in general. Just because a member has a high post count does'nt make the more experienced.

Why do you desearve gratitude? You try to discourage me from taking candid pictures in public. You tried to make CP seem much more dangerous than it really is.

OK.... I guess you would be the type of person who do need pointers on common courtesy.

You asked questions and a lot of guys answered you, including me, with our own take on things
954426
And as I wrote previously "....I would think that a bit of civility - never mind gratitude - would have been in order...."

In your opinion, what we answered was all wrong - and that is OK as you of course are entitled to your own opinion; but you went further and started bashing just about every one here for OUR opinion.

But then again you ARE the person who boasts about how you don't think that Harlem and South Central LA is not all that bad and how you would gamble your life versus the few $$ in your pocket etc - so I guess you ARE cut from a different bolt of cloth!! Apologies for having presumed otherwise.

SEAJ

[Web Connect]

That pretty much sums up what this poster boy knows about China.Yeah and that is how much you know about the Mongols.

"Respect Few.... Fear None !"

[Web Connect]

The guy says that he is not worried about getting caught mongering and not scared of any thugs there so why are you wasting your time?

And it has not stopped a lot of the regular posters here going either.Exactly!

Lets put a stop to all this fear mongering.

Don't let these fear mongers discourage you from going to Changping and having a good time. All this fear mongering is a scam to make you think you need to pay for a guided tour.

[SE Asia Joe]

Just got back from a few days in CP.

Thnigs have come back a lot - as an example, the Jun Hui have gone back to putting their "display" of gals centrally instead of in the separate back rooms BUT the gals are stilll not in their see-thru and braless uniform. Same thing at the Virgin where the gals are in our rooms in their own clothing instead of the uniform - never mind even asking about the extra RMB50 to have them sit with you braless in their skimpy uniform.

BTW - I asked about the reason for the street wear i/o uniforms - and the reply is that this is in case there IS a raid, that these gals can say that they're just 'civilians' out partying with friends and not a P4P gal working at the KTV.

This being the case, I THINK that it would be wise if when you first sit with a gal, that you get certain details about each other outlined. I'd imagine that if there was a raid, that basic questions like "what's her/your name, where from, age, how you met outside of the KTV etc" would be good to know!!

BBS's seems to be fully stocked and eager to do business - even managed to get a bit of a discount (a VERY litlle bit!) for one of our guys who took a double when I actually was just messing around when asking for it!

SEAJ

[Web Connect]

Just got back from a few days in CP.

Thnigs have come back a lot. As an example, the Jun Hui have gone back to putting their "display" of gals centrally instead of in the separate back rooms BUT the gals are stilll not in their see-thru and braless uniform. Same thing at the Virgin where the gals are in our rooms in their own clothing instead of the uniform. Never mind even asking about the extra RMB50 to have them sit with you braless in their skimpy uniform.

BTW. I asked about the reason for the street wear I/o uniforms. And the reply is that this is in case there IS a raid, that these gals can say that they're just 'civilians' out partying with friends and not a P4P gal working at the KTV.

This being the case, I THINK that it would be wise if when you first sit with a gal, that you get certain details about each other outlined. I'd imagine that if there was a raid, that basic questions like "what's her/your name, where from, age, how you met outside of the KTV etc" would be good to know!

SEAJI was just at the Virgin Sauna and all the girls ARE dressed in Nurse, Secratary and Goth Gear. I would be very surprised if that is their "street" clothing. I got a secratary, not that I care about the uniform, I just thought the girl has the best body and was the best looking.

298 RMB for the room.

200 RMB for the girl.

Free Tea

I think the sauna is expensive if you already have your own hotel room. The Sauna girls are not any better than what you can find at the BBS's.

Most girls do not speak English so forget about trying to make small talk about "what's her/your name, where from, age, how you met outside of the KTV etc". If anyone wants to cell phone number of the Manager at Virgin Sauna that speaks perfect English send me a PM.

Here are some photos of the Virgin Sauna rooms.

[Zhuren]

Just received this from a very long time ISG member who wants to stay anonymous. His postcount approaches the size of the national debt. He's been here longer than 99.9% of us. I cannot vouch for the veracity of this info. I am simply passing on the "quotes from a long time monger in CP," as he prefers to be referred to. Don't shoot the messenger ....

"Just to let you know, Dave and Joe shares a rented apartment at the Manhattan in CP (near Clipper) and I am sure Joe is into this sex tour agency in which Dave is trying to make successful. If you read on the board Joe is indirectly endorsing Dave. I do agree that all these stuff about it is dangerous in CP is all marketing stuff for Dave's business. Why would Clipper be safer than the main strip of CP (Miraton and Hui Hua)? Clipper is tuck in the middle of red light area of CP while Miraton, Hui Hua, Hui Mei are right in CP town central next to the police station! The reasons are obvious isn't it?

I am not saying that CP is totally safe. The financial crisis and unemployment had pushed the crime rates up. It is not only in CP but also everywhere in China and around the world! Just as any traveller, if you watch your back and be aware of what is going on around you, you are OK.

Dave’s services are great for newbies. These newbies are obviously scared and careful and does not know any better. In others words they would be the greatest suckers! Since they are willing to pay why bother? But what I didn’t like about Dave was; like any businesses you would lay out your price up front, people understands that you are running a business. You name your price, if I am ok with it, I’ll pay. Whilst, for Dave it is different, his tactics is “Oh…no no no! I am not a Pimp! I do not want to make a living out of you guys! I am a nice guy! Please please! Don’t need to pay me anything!” But the fact was: He is making commission out of every person he brings to CP! I hate liars! But interesting enough, these suckers that are unknowingly paying him, are so blinded by he lies. Or should I put it in others words "It's all a scam!"

However I must say, he did provided great services for the newbies which indirectly reduced the numbers of "one post wonders" on the board. Like Dragon D in Shanghai; it’s a business, it’s a service, you are willing, and you pay for the price!

Read the postings on the board with a pinch…… well… maybe more than a pinch of salt, say a spoonful of salt especially the DG threads. That’s the reason why I don’t read nor participate much on the main board anymore. If you are not happy with those bullshit, just ignore them and keep enjoying your fun. Laugh over those suckers while you happily humping your girl/s from the BBS.

I am writing to you from CP now. Just been to the nightmarket, BBSs and they are all in full swing! Just walked back to Miraton on the main strip 01:20am and not a sight of beggars, robbers or any crime waiting to happen. I come here almost twice everymonth over the past 5 years! What you read on the board by Joe and Dave are way over exaggerated.

All my regular mummies from the BBSs in CP are telling me that Dave is trying to ask for 10 ~ 20 rmb from each girl his friend take out from their BBSs. They are not too happy about this and that's why not all mummy is willing to give it to him. (example: those behind Hui Mei). And thus he & Joe had posted about bad services or been dangerous @ Hui Mei. Mummies normally give the cab driver 10rmb per girl their customer take out from their BBS."

All I can say: 10 - 20 per girl, what a crummy way to make a buck. The fact remains that police action has swept South and that there is pressure on provincial and city governments to bring their house in order. An occasional raid is a good way to demonstrate that there is action.

[Bob Builder]

While I don't need Dave, others might and like travel agents you don't sign a lifelong contract with them. Once you have been there once or know the ropes you can always do everything yourself. There is enough info here on almost all the places that you could go there over the period of a month, stay and try out all the places and make your own decisions.

Now if you are lonesome monger, I can see the use of a guy who introduces you to a party of mongers, like a dinner-for-six but all the gals will fuck at the end of the night.

As for pricing, don't give a shit about what Dave makes, be more concerned about how much you are willing to pay. If you can get it cheaper elsewhere, go there. Just remember and I don't think he hides this, Dave is not your friend, you are his customer and your wallet is his friend. In Asia it is customary to tip the tour guide and pay for the food and drink for the gofer, even if they are making a commission.

I don't think anyone here mistakenly thought the guy was a lonely monger who had nothing better to do with his time.

And if there are enough guys here that think they have been shafted, you can pool together some money and hire some gangsters in CP to kick the feck out of both of them. Shit like that happens every day in CP from what I read here, LOL!

As for warnings on crackdowns and danger, everyone has there own risk profile and attitudes. Things that are reported are the worst that can happen and you can go thru CP without seeing any of it or be unlucky and score the trifecta. No harm in being prepared for the worst.

[Web Connect]

As for pricing, don't give a shit about what Dave makes, be more concerned about how much you are willing to pay. If you can get it cheaper elsewhere, go there. Just remember and I don't think he hides this, Dave is not your friend, you are his customer and your wallet is his friend.

I don't think anyone here was mistaken and thought the guy was a lonely monger who had nothing better to do with his time.

And if there are enough guys here that think they have been shafted, you can pool together some money and hire some gangsters in CP to kick the feck out of both of them. Shit like that happens every day in CP from what I read here, LOL!I could careless if he is running a business and making money from newbies either.

But trying to scare newbies into thinking the only way they are going to get pussy in Changping has to stop!!!

This site is suppose to be able sharing accurate and honest information. Not trying to advance ones business!

If he is running a business then just come out and say it... he should tell everyone how much of a percentage he makes from their total bill. If the person accepts it fine. He should be the one GIVING thanks and gratitude to his customers for supporting his business.. not expecting it.

[Member #4515]

Nothing wrong with Dave although I have never seen him nor Joe before.

First of all English is not my native language and I hope my expression is clear

Enough.

I have visited CP many many times during last say about 10 years. I know pretty well there and know many people both sides. As everydody knows CP is

A mongering place and nothing else and that's why so many man from all over the world come to have fun there.

There are several Taiwanese travel agts working in CP and they mainly serve Taiwanese and some of the foreigners also looking for their help. They organize everything including htl booking, KTV, bbs, golf, rent cars, sauna. All their customers I may say are not newbies still go fof them bcs they well ognanize everything, Take bbs, for instance, they pick you up from yuor htl and take you to 5-8 bbs and transfer you back to your htl no matter you are 1 or with the girl and you pay 10rmb for the ride. You did not pay any extra just the regular going fee. As the commision it's between mammy and agt. Nothing to do with you and much more smooth than you going alone. I knows every details about everywhere and also happy to join them sometimes.

The point is there is nothing wrong with Dave, everydody got the right to earn their living and it's really helpful for those newbie and save a lot energy and time. If you don't like his service you just saty by yourself. He didn't raise the price and didn't ask any extra and you really hope him doing for nothing?

So stop attack Dvae and even Joe, who I know he is a good person, just enjoy yourself.

For those newbies I strongly suggust you looking for help from Dave. It won't cost you any extra and actually will save you a lot. Belive or not?

[Criss Thor]

Ok, guys! I read that topic regularelly, but in last time things are not clear for me. You need to know that I never been in CP, I 2 times per year visit Guangzhou. Few months ago I discovered that great forum and after few nights of reading decided to visit that "paradise" called CP/ Dongguan. Me and 7 my friends want to come at the end of February. Dave suggested me in to contact with him. I sent priv. Mess. But he didn't reply me yet.

I have no problems with travels/walks in anyway in China alone or only with friends (I mean without any guide).

But reading that all about CP last weeks I'm not so sure. Please, can somebody can tell me very clear: is the good idea to arrange all time in CP only by myself or better is to arrange it with help of some "guide"?

I pay more when I'm alone, or am I in bigger dangerous being alone?

And probably it's not a problem to book a hotel with normal price, right?

I'll be really happy if someone can suggest me what should I do.

P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm not very fluent.

[SE Asia Joe]

Just received this from a very long time ISG member who wants to stay anonymous. I cannot vouch for the veracity of this info. I am simply passing on the "quotes from a long time monger in CP," as he prefers to be referred to. Don't shoot the messenger ....
Thank you Zhuren, for bringing this matter up and at last, out in the open.

Dave and I have been informed by various sources that this character have, for the past few months, been sending a flurry of furtive AND scurrilous PMS/emails to various parties. LOTS of PMS, lots of E-mails! Pretty well the same thing that he’d sent you re-hashed over and over. Obsessively. Crazy stuff I say!!

All our other previous informant friends though have understandably been reluctant to get personally involved in the matter and as such, Dave and I had decided it best to just ignore it. And thus my thanks to you Zhuren - for at last giving me the chance to address this weirdo in the open.

For one thing, we know that this character loves being the center of attraction/regales being praised as being “The Monger Leader” and for another, he had expressed his desires to start up his own Luxury (read: in-built with hefty mark-ups) Guide Business.

Dave and I had previously figured that it best just to let it go and NOT further upset this guy’s fragile ego AND mental state.


"Just to let you know, Dave and Joe shares a rented apartment at the Manhattan in CP (near Clipper) and I am sure Joe is into this sex tour agency in which Dave is trying to make successful.
We’ve never even tried to keep this fact any secret.

Yes, I sub-rent from Dave and yes I DO give Dave a lot of advise on his business – but anybody that knows me I think knows that I certainly do NOT need to profit from whatever $$ this little business can make.

But even if I were to be directly involved in the P/L of this undertaking (which I will again emphasize I am NOT), I would NOT be ashamed as I have always counseled Dave to offer a genuine and honest service AND to never be involved DIRECTLY with the provision of girls. Pimping is DEFINITELY NOT alright in my AND Dave’s books, but the booking of Hotel rooms, transportation, footsies etc and arranging KTV parties whilst receiving commission is what sustains all travel agencies. The travel/hospitality industry has commission expenses already in-built into their pricing and this commission is what Dave gets.


If you read on the board Joe is indirectly endorsing Dave. I do agree that all these stuff about it is dangerous in CP is all marketing stuff for Dave's business. Why would Clipper be safer than the main strip of CP …………..
This character WILL go on and on about how I supposedly said that the Swan Lake area is safer than the Miraton area – whilst what I had been saying all along is that guys who stays at the hotels in this area should NOT get lulled into a sense of security being cocooned by the 5 star services on offer at these hotels – that the streets of CP – everywhere – are quite dangerous. 942884


All my regular mummies from the BBSs in CP are telling me that Dave is trying to ask for 10 ~ 20 rmb from each girl his friend take out from their BBSs. They are not too happy about this and that's why not all mummy is willing to give it to him. (example: those behind Hui Mei). And thus he & Joe had posted about bad services or been dangerous @ Hui Mei. Mummies normally give the cab driver 10rmb per girl their customer take out from their BBS."

All I can say: 10 - 20 per girl, what a crummy way to make a buck..This part… This part really takes the cake and is the MAIN reason for this retort.

Dave has NEVER asked ANY mommies for any commission or rebate or fee or whatever for ANY gal in CP. NEVER! And this is the very first principle I advised him when he first contemplated doing this business as this is just too dangerous and illegal PLUS there is not that much money in it anyway.

In fact, because of this, many, many times he is very reluctant to even personally take guys on a chicken run as he does NOT want even any such connotation; he would instead many times recruit other guys (yes, including me) to do this for him if possible, or just stay outside of the BBS after pointing out the location if there is nobody else to lead the chicken run.

And here’s a direct message to “Long time Monger in CP”

Hey guy – you love being known as Mr. Know-it-all and the Leader on all things mongering – hey – nobody’s stopping you! You can still Gallantly do your own thing!

You don’t like what Dave is doing – why don’t you just come out and talk to him…. Like a man…. And not go furtively like a cat burglar?

You want to set up your own business – hey again talk to Dave. Competition can only be good for everybody – but DO compete and NOT try to run your business by destroying other’s by such dastardly, under-handed and the chicken-shit means as you’re now employing. OK?

Thanks!

SEAJ

[Ozirob]

So my experience in CP is same as last time - just good times.

However, some guys with me were not so lucky. I am talking about experienced mongers of chinese origin, with several visits to CA under their belts.
One of them ended up with a girl who suddenly became "don't touch" once she was back in his room. He told her ok, leave now, I give you the sit fee, no ST or LT . She told him no, mummy would be not happy. He told her, let me speak to her. She wasn't answering the phone. My colleage put her out of the door, told her he would happily talk with the mummy tomorrow. Today, 15 thugs turn up at the hotel, up to the room, serious threats and accusations. The guy is still in one piece, but his wallet is 4000 rmb lighter.

Now we can debate whose side of the story is true, the guy or girl, but the point is still that if you get it wrong its a seriously risky situation.

My own story is quite different - a magic girl that I met a couple of months ago, keen to please me, presentable and good company. We explored around Dalang, and CP together, found some nice very local eating houses. Sitting at the airport now departing but would gladly be back tomorrow for more of the same!

I will be back! :-)

Ozirob

[SE Asia Joe]

One of them ended up with a girl who suddenly became "don't touch" once she was back in his room. He told her ok, leave now, I give you the sit fee, no ST or LT . She told him no, mummy would be not happy. He told her, let me speak to her. She wasn't answering the phone. My colleage put her out of the door, told her he would happily talk with the mummy tomorrow. Today, 15 thugs turn up at the hotel, up to the room, serious threats and accusations. The guy is still in one piece, but his wallet is 4000 rmb lighter.

Now we can debate whose side of the story is true, the guy or girl, but the point is still that if you get it wrong its a seriously risky situation.

I will be back! :-)

Ozirob
Good grief - you mentioned that you were at the Royal Garden in your previous post. I certainly hope that what went down above did not occur at the Royal Garden!! And if it did - then things must really be bad in Dongguan in general.

Also, IMHO, anytime you have any problems with ANYBODY in China, just to be on the safe side, ALWAYS ask your hotel to move you into another room. Better still if you move to another, higher star hotel if you can.

At least its good that you managed to have a good time!!

SEAJ

[Ozirob]

Stayed at Eurasia Hotel CP. Beaut rooms, price good for the quality. But you are right, royal garden more proffessional. I have stayed there also, and will return to the RG on the hand of what happened at Eurasia.

The girl, though, did come from royal garden ktv,

Ozirob

[SE Asia Joe]

Stayed at Eurasia Hotel CP. Beaut rooms, price good for the quality. But you are right, royal garden more proffessional. I have stayed there also, and will return to the RG on the hand of what happened at Eurasia.

The girl, though, did come from royal garden ktv,

Ozirob
THIS IS BAD!!

Euroasia is suppossedly the most luxurious hotel in CP right now. And the hotel proper is suppossedly only accessible via a guarded gate that will not even allow taxis without passengers to come into the grounds... and for 15.. FIFTEEN thugs to actually come not only into the hotel, but all the way up to your friend's room?!

And the same with the Royal Garden - this KTV's is filled every night with all sorts of local Big shots, Factory owners, high ranking cadrs etc - that I could not imagine that a girl - any girl working there - would have the guts to pull off such a thing. And the thugs doing the actual heavy lifting - these guys must have been either nuts or so desperate that they would risk extorting from a client of the Royal Garden - who more likely than not does have their own back-up.

Did your friend at least take up this matter with the management of either or both hotels?

SEAJ

[OldAsiaHand]

It won't be the first time I got into a fight and I am sure it won't be the last. But I would rather fight and die than tap out. There is no way I am going to give up the money I worked so hard for. Even more so it is a matter of principle. I would not be able to live the rest of my life knowing I punked out.

You may be hearing about some dead or beaten thugs who tried to rob a foreigner before you will ever hear about me giving in so easy.

So what are your comparisons when it comes to cost?

I know for a fact I am saving a lot more by not drinking or buying LDs. But when it comes to CP Suana's compared to Pattaya Soapies. For sure CP is way more expensive. But of course it is comparing Apples and Oranges.

Web Connect,

Although it probably will do not good, I will warn you that here in China nobody fights fair. Case in point are the 15 thugs visit over a KTV girl posted about today. They will gang up on you, possibly with knives, and you will not stand a chance. You are not the first to post on this thread that you fear nothing and are ready to fight. Remember One Wing Low?

You will probably leave CP without any scars, however, I have seen stitches in the back of the head of a guy taking photos in a restaurant. I know personally guys that have been held for days at knifepoint, beaten and bank accounts drained out by ATM before they were let go.

I only know personally of one case in Guangzhou where a foreigner was held by LE for about 6 hours and forced to sign a document of admission after being busted for picking up a SW near the Garden Hotel.

IMHO, the quality of girls in Pattaya soapies is atrocious; old, fat and ugly, compared to China saunas. And, I cannot stand a CBJ which seems to be standard in Thailand MP nowadays. Although CP saunas are more expensive, ZH saunas are on par and sometimes cheaper for far better quality and service. Unfortunately, the best quality saunas in Thailand are off limits to farang.

I have posted other cost comparisons in the past.

Just my POV.

OAH

P.S. I share the same opinion with some of the other senior members on this forum. You asked for our help and we gave it to you. Now, you are calling us out. Next time, we should know better.

[Weelock]

today, 15 thugs turn up at the hotel, up to the room, serious threats and accusations. the guy is still in one piece, but his wallet is 4000 rmb lighter.

now we can debate whose side of the story is true, the guy or girl, but the point is still that if you get it wrong its a seriously risky situation.
---cut---
ozirob

i believe you because something similar happened to another member of isg at the miraton but nothing bad occurred. how did they all get into his room ? he should have called security when he saw all these guys at his door at the peephole.

i once had a girl that left early and wanted the $200 sitting fee at the mayflower ktv. she told me she had some issues, an emergency at 9:10pm. it's a long, long story but basically, i later found out she was probably scamming me to get another client for another 200 sitting fee. the next day, i complained to a top manager, with the help of a friend who spoke mandarin who was also with me at the ktv. i believe girls will be fined $500 rmb and the mommies $1000. i was told it should have been done the previous night.

my point is, you might want to talk with a senior manager and the mommie if they ( 15 guys / girl ) don't know any personal info about your friend. i don't know what was the outcome of my complain since i filed it the next day. i was told i should have complained on the same day and not wait one day later.

ps. one wing low, said he can take on 4 guys. he just kick them in the balls. this guy is only around 5'3" , 110 lbs, he's very brave :)

some guys on isg helped owl and was he back stabbed them later too, just like web connect.

edit: "bob builder" answered one of my questions of "how did they find out which hotel and which room your friend was staying "?

[LAMonkey]

Last day of another 1 1/2 week enjoyable stay in CP. Just missed the crackdowns, so everything was open. All girls available. Eurasia, Fuhao, Virgin, being the favorites. New Swan Lake KTV tonight, they have a huge Las Vegas neon sign up. Maybe a hint of how CP will look in the future. Met with the regulars, Jetsetter, Dr. Jim, SEAJoe, Bruce Tea, plus a bunch of new friends. Dave was great as usual, didn't pay him any money other than what I would have spent anyway, and don't care what happens otherwise. He's cool also if you do your own thing as I got sick and had to cancel once or twice to recover. Heading back to US tomorrow. Damn, wish I was based in Asia!

[Donwon]

Web-Connect.

Your report and comments regarding KTV's was well written and absolutely correct. If you are not on a company expense account it is expensive compared to what you can get from a BBS or Sauna for the amount you pay for an outing to a KTV.

I am also in the middle income bracket so my dollars are limited so I prefer the BBS when I need a quick pop and if the experience was not so good then it isn't too much that I had lost. When I am tired and my mojo is low I prefer the saunas as one would want the girl to do the work. As far as KTV's, well I went up to CP three times on this current trip and just wanted the experience. You meet fellow mongers to party with and perhaps share the cost. Do I want to do this again. Yes I would as I like variety and need to break the monotony of the massages, BBS's and sauna's. However, I won't do this that often.

Here's a breakdown of my cost on my 3rd trip up to CP at the Eurasia KTV.

Hotel cost(Swan Lake) $198. 00

KTV: Gal 1 sitting fee 200. 00

Gal 2 Take out LT 900. 00

Room cost/DJ etc 450. 00

Train from SZ 80. 00

Taxi 20. 00

Total $ 1848. 00

[Bob Builder]

i believe you but i have some questions. how did they find out which hotel and which room your friend was staying ?

how did they all get into his room ? he should have called security when he saw all these guys at his door at the peephole.

i once had a girl that left early and wanted the $200 sitting fee at the mayflower ktv. she told me she had some issues, an emergency at 9:10pm. it's a long, long story but basically, i later found out she was probably scamming me to get another client for another 200 sitting fee. the next day, i complained to a top manager, with the help of a friend who spoke mandarin who was also with me at the ktv. i believe girls will be fined $500 rmb and the mommies $1000. i was told it should have been done the previous night.

my point is, you might want to talk with a senior manager if they ( 15 guys / girl ) don't know any personal info about your friend. i don't know what was the outcome of my complain since i filed it the next day. i was told i should have complained on the same day and not wait one day later.

ps. one wing low, said he can take on 4 guys. he just kick them in the balls. this guy is only around 5'3" , 110 lbs, he very brave :)

some guys on isg helped owl and was he back stabbed them later too, just like web connect.

i think he said that the gal refused service after they got to the hotel so she had been to the room.

[BruceTea]

However, some guys with me were not so lucky. I am talking about experienced mongers of chinese origin, with several visits to CA under their belts.

One of them ended up with a girl who suddenly became "don't touch" once she was back in his room. He told her ok, leave now, I give you the sit fee, no ST or LT .

Today, 15 thugs turn up at the hotel, up to the room, serious threats and accusations. The guy is still in one piece, but his wallet is 4000 rmb lighter.

Now we can debate whose side of the story is true, the guy or girl, but the point is still that if you get it wrong its a seriously risky situation.
These "don't touch" girls [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off. They're ok at the KTV, let you touch their back, legs, arms, etc. in the KTV so you think she's good to go for the night.

Once back to the room, and after the shower, a little touch and it's "It tickles, I don't like guys touching me, put on the condom and stick it in, don't touch my thigh, don't touch my hair, put on condom stick it in, don't touch, don't look, don't kiss, don't .... don't do anything to me"

Had this happen to me three times. It's a buzz kill and completely ruins the entire night/morning. You end up with a just-do-me-and-let-me-sleep girl, and most likely she's ready to leave 7:00 am in the morning.

So your friend let her go without doing her. That's what I really want to do. I mean, they are basically one of those tube vaginas you do just to release. A complete waste of a night. But she IS naked so I guess a ST and let her go is the best compromise. Kicking her out right there and then with the sitting fee would've been tempting.

[Pig Fat]

I guess the best thing to do in that situation to avoid any hassles is to try to contact the mummy. If she cannot be contacted right there and then, then let the WG know that you will pay her for ST but that you will also call her mummy the morning or afternoon of the next day and complain about her if the girl insists in getting paid ST.

[OldAsiaHand]

These "don't touch" girls [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) me off. They're ok at the KTV, let you touch their back, legs, arms, etc. in the KTV so you think she's good to go for the night.

Once back to the room, and after the shower, a little touch and it's "It tickles, I don't like guys touching me, put on the condom and stick it in, don't touch my thigh, don't touch my hair, put on condom stick it in, don't touch, don't look, don't kiss, don't .... don't do anything to me"

Had this happen to me three times. It's a buzz kill and completely ruins the entire night/morning. You end up with a just-do-me-and-let-me-sleep girl, and most likely she's ready to leave 7:00 am in the morning.

So your friend let her go without doing her. That's what I really want to do. I mean, they are basically one of those tube vaginas you do just to release. A complete waste of a night. But she IS naked so I guess a ST and let her go is the best compromise. Kicking her out right there and then with the sitting fee would've been tempting.

As most of you know, I am not a big fan of KTV for this reason. At least with a BBS girl, you are only out 150-200 RMB to find out you have a bad apple. At KTV, you have spent a whole evening with her and invested 200 RMB on her without any action. Back in your room, you are looking at another 300 RMB for ST just for the tube release. It is always a hassle if you want to throw her out without pay after she is already in bed with you.

Just my POV.

OAH

[OldAsiaHand]

IMHO, enough has been posted about the pros and cons of what BSD does in CP. He provides a service and makes a few bucks at it. I reckon most of us are old enough and well enough informed to make our own decisions whether we want to deal with Dave or not. I look at it as a matter of convenience. If you want to invest the time and hassle of doing it all yourself, that's OK. If you want to save your time and energy, call Dave.

Frankly, and I confess I am guilty of falling into it myself, this thread has become a pissing match. Can we all let it go and get back to the purpose of this forum?

Where's the pussy at?

Just my POV.

OAH

[Web Connect]

Some guys on ISG helped OWL and was he back stabbed them later too, just like Web Connect.Exactly how I am I back stabbing anyone?

Do you expect all newbies to come here to be extorted for a protection and be charged though the nose paying high commissions ?

[Web Connect]

Its easy to talk tough on the web.Do you think every monger is a push over ?

I already had my a problem in CP and I stood up to what I thought was right.

In short:
I got a girl from one of the BBSs. When we got back to my room all she wanted to do was blow me. I said noway. I motioned we are going to back the BBS. She would'nt leave my room. She used her index finger to tell me she wanted 100 RMB to leave. I said no way. For a good 10 mins I tried to get her out of the room. Finally I pulled the keycard so it cut all the power.

We went back to the BBS and I argued with the Mommy. I told them her I wanted to exchange girls or give me my 100 RMB back. She said No and she got on her cell phone. 5 mins later a Chinese guy walks in dressed in a track suit. He looks and me and I look right back at him. He knew I was not going to back down and was ready to fight. This is all taking place behind a locked steel door.

He asks the Mommy in Chinese. He asks me in somewhat decent English. Then he asks the girl what is going on. After listening to all 3 of our stories. He tells me I should pay the girl at least 50 RMB for blowing me, the Mommy should pay the girl 50 RMB, which then the Mommy freaks out. She is now yelling and tries to kick me. The guy in the track suit looks at me as if to say it was ok to kick her back. I thought enough was enough, I don't fight girls.

The next few days I went back to the same BBS, wound up getting the same girl with out even knowing ( a lot of the girls look the same to me ). The Mommy was nice to me. She seen be going in and out of other BBSs pulling girls. She knew I was spending and none of the other girls had a problem with me.

The point is I did'nt back down even if it was a small amount. Yes I put myself into a dangerous situation being locked behind a steel door. But it is not about the money it is about the principle. I am not going to be ripped off.

[Web Connect]

IMHO, enough has been posted about the pros and cons of what BSD does in CP. He provides a service and makes a few bucks at it. I reckon most of us are old enough and well enough informed to make our own decisions whether we want to deal with Dave or not. I look at it as a matter of convenience. If you want to invest the time and hassle of doing it all yourself, that's OK. If you want to save your time and energy, call Dave.

Frankly, and I confess I am guilty of falling into it myself, this thread has become a pissing match. Can we all let it go and get back to the purpose of this forum?

Where's the pussy at?

Just my POV.

OAHI agree. I would just like to see more honest information in the future in help a newbie come here and get laid with out being extorted for protection or being charged a hefty fee in commisions. ( something I did not take part of )

I did write a lot of what I would was valuable information on the hotels and what I thought of the KTV scene. I tried my best to back to the community.

Most of my posts where not accepted to be shown in public. But that is not my fault.

[Web Connect]

I hope the moderator will let this post be shown in public so I can prove that I am a man of action and not all talk. Before I went to Changping Dongguan, China I was told NOT to shoot pictures in public.


Problem is, in CP (the main areas where all the action is), there are so many WGs on the street, pimps for those WGs, and P4P establishments. It's not easy to shoot street life in every general without getting some of the above in your picture. Anyway, just wanted to give you a heads up on it.
I would suggest strongly that you be very careful when shooting "general pictures" in CP as there are a lot of people who are very sensitive about this I. E. The married mongers, the working gals, the bad boys, the pimps etc and even the LE who may or may not be under cover who definitely do not want to have ANY pictures taken. In fact if you read a few pages back, we had an actual case of one of our members getting his head bashed in badly when all he was doing was just taking "general pixs"

And if you are a foreigner. Just the mere act of taking pictures on the street may be bringing all that more/too much attention to yourself. It's akin to you taking general pictures in Harlem or South Central LA if you are white. As you can see I did'nt listen to their words of warning and did what I alwasys do. Yeah I may have brought attention to myself, Yes I had police come check out what I was doing, Yes I had some thug looking guys get in my face asking why I was taking pictures of them. But that did not stop me. I shot over 800 pictures and only stopped because the sun went down.

When is comes to Candid Street Photography, asking permission is NOT an option. That would defeat the whole concept of candid.

Is there anyone else here who shares the same interest of street photography?

Here are a few samples of my work on my work taken this week. Too bad the weather is cold. I will definitly have to come back in the summer.

If you want to see the FULL size pictures of my entire collection please send me a PM.

Attached Images (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=958991&postcount=1915)
TheCandidBoard-Changping-5.jpg (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125921)
TheCandidBoard-Changping-6.jpg (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125922)
TheCandidBoard-Changping-7.jpg (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125923)
TheCandidBoard-Changping-8.jpg (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125924)

[SE Asia Joe]

Stayed at Eurasia Hotel CP. Beaut rooms, price good for the quality. But you are right, royal garden more proffessional. I have stayed there also, and will return to the RG on the hand of what happened at Eurasia.

The girl, though, did come from royal garden ktv,

Ozirob
Like I said, this is BAD. On the other hand though, is there a possiblity that your colleague probably did NOT tell you the whole story and that he MAY have embellished certain facts whilst conveniently skipping some details?

What I am thinking is that he probably did get into some hassle with the gal and her guys - but that perhaps - just perhaps - he may have been partly to blame also? i.e. him askimg her to do certain things like anal or bare back FS or maybe even some other kinky stuff - and thus the reason why the gal refused him? And since time is money - and she had "invested" her time to not only sit with him, but to get him to bring her out AND that she did go with him to the room etc, that she would think that it's in order for her to receive her 'full dues." She'd be thinkin' that as it was him who "broke the contract" in requiring her to do certain things which is not de-rigeur/part of the usual understanding as to what consitutes her services, that she's due her full fees.

ALL speculation on my part - but I would think that since he did get into some shit that night, but that he may have been somehow at fault, even partly, that he would be quite reluctant to tell you the whole gory story.

The part about 15 guys is also quite "fantastic" as it don't need 15 guys to do these kinds of "job." For one, guys who do these kind of things certainly know NOT to attract attention for their planned "escapades" - especially into the Euroasia - and would IMHO go with a smaller crew which nonetheless would be more than adequate to do the job. 3 maximum 5 is the number usually deployed.

Apologize if I seem to be incredulous - but I am sceptical NOT at what you relayed to us - but questioning what your friend (Or colleague??? Which makes it all the more difficult for him to relay the whole truth of the matter) told you.

Regards

SEAJ

[OldAsiaHand]

I agree. I would just like to see more honest information in the future in help a newbie come here and get laid with out being extorted for protection or being charged a hefty fee in commisions. ( something I did not take part of )

I did write a lot of what I would was valuable information on the hotels and what I thought of the KTV scene. I tried my best to back to the community.

Most of my posts where not accepted to be shown in public. But that is not my fault.

Web Connect,

Who said Dave was extorting anything or charging hefty fees in commissions? I said he was providing a service of convenience. I use his service myself to book my hotel and I have been going to CP since 1992. Am I a newbie? So what if I pay the same rate and he makes a few bucks. IMHO, he is a nice guy and I want to help him out if I can. It is as simple as that. If you think otherwise, just don't use his service. There is no need to thrash the guy when you know absolutely nothing about it first hand.

I really want to put an end to this dialogue about Dave but you took my post way out of context.

Just my POV.

OAH

[OldAsiaHand]

Do you think every monger is a push over ?

I already had my a problem in CP and I stood up to what I thought was right.

In short:
I got a girl from one of the BBSs. When we got back to my room all she wanted to do was blow me. I said noway. I motioned we are going to back the BBS. She would'nt leave my room. She used her index finger to tell me she wanted 100 RMB to leave. I said no way. For a good 10 mins I tried to get her out of the room. Finally I pulled the keycard so it cut all the power.

We went back to the BBS and I argued with the Mommy. I told them her I wanted to exchange girls or give me my 100 RMB back. She said No and she got on her cell phone. 5 mins later a Chinese guy walks in dressed in a track suit. He looks and me and I look right back at him. He knew I was not going to back down and was ready to fight. This is all taking place behind a locked steel door.

He asks the Mommy in Chinese. He asks me in somewhat decent English. Then he asks the girl what is going on. After listening to all 3 of our stories. He tells me I should pay the girl at least 50 RMB for blowing me, the Mommy should pay the girl 50 RMB, which then the Mommy freaks out. She is now yelling and tries to kick me. The guy in the track suit looks at me as if to say it was ok to kick her back. I thought enough was enough, I don't fight girls.

The next few days I went back to the same BBS, wound up getting the same girl with out even knowing ( a lot of the girls look the same to me ). The Mommy was nice to me. She seen be going in and out of other BBSs pulling girls. She knew I was spending and none of the other girls had a problem with me.

The point is I did'nt back down even if it was a small amount. Yes I put myself into a dangerous situation being locked behind a steel door. But it is not about the money it is about the principle. I am not going to be ripped off.

Web Connect,

With your attitude, you were bound to get into an altercation like this. However, your details are a bit vague. I have a few questions.

1) Did she blow you or not?

2) Did you get the 100 RMB back?

3) What happened the 2nd time you took the same girl?

4) How did you know what they were talking about?

OAH

[Bearsk]

How good was the BJ?
I would rather pay 50RMB than end up dead behind a steel door in CP.
Just MHO.


Do you think every monger is a push over ?

I already had my a problem in CP and I stood up to what I thought was right.

In short:
I got a girl from one of the BBSs. When we got back to my room all she wanted to do was blow me. I said noway.

We went back to the BBS and I argued with the Mommy. ... 5 mins later a Chinese guy walks in dressed in a track suit. He looks and me and I look right back at him. ... After listening to all 3 of our stories. He tells me I should pay the girl at least 50 RMB for blowing me, the Mommy should pay the girl 50 RMB, which then the Mommy freaks out.

The point is I did'nt back down even if it was a small amount. Yes I put myself into a dangerous situation being locked behind a steel door. But it is not about the money it is about the principle. I am not going to be ripped off.

[Web Connect]

Web Connect,

With your attitude, you were bound to get into an altercation like this. However, your details are a bit vague. I have a few questions.

1) Did she blow you or not?

2) Did you get the 100 RMB back?

3) What happened the 2nd time you took the same girl?

4) How did you know what they were talking about?

OAHPlease don't only judge me on my last posts based on the topic of hiring a guide in Changping. I am very kind to the girls and the people who have met me in person think of me as a gentleman.

1) Yes she did blow me but no FS which I expected.

2) No I did not get my 100 RMB back but I also did'nt pay the full 100 RMB to the girl. Only 50 RMB for the BJ.

3) She was fine, she hung out in my room for a long time. Not rushed at all. She seemed more than happy before and after the deed. She did motion she enjoyed it very much. I did'nt know it was even her until after I was looking at the pictures.

4) It does'nt take a rocket scientist to figure it out. Anyone who has been traveling for a long time to different countries where English is not spoken can read body and hand expressions.

[Web Connect]

How good was the BJ?

I would rather pay 50RMB than end up dead behind a steel door in CP.

Just MHO.The BJ was REALLY good. But I also expected FS.

I guess everyone has their own values.

[SE Asia Joe]

Web connect:

OK – now I understand why you’re all hot to trot!!

Compliments of our “Longtime monger in CP” Huh? So you’re now officially a member of this Lunatic’s band of merry men huh?! That’s good as he will definitely comp you and treat you great; he needs to do that to make himself feel that he IS “the Leader!’ ROFLMAO!!!

But hey – then you wouldn’t need to be kicked out of the KTV by the rest of the guys for NOT agreeing to sharing the expenses that night huh?! Oh Yeah – of course I’ve heard about this!!

All first hand info you got there Guy! (And pretty liberal usage of “quotes” from this guy who’s been proven a lunatic. Sit back, breathe a bit and THINK man…. If you’re still capable of doing so with all this anger in you)

Your hotel pricing?? Where the hell did you get all those prices?? A fool and his money…

What’s with all these voyeuristic pictures of gals on the street? You get off on that huh?

“Extort me for protection money or charge me though the nose to make commissions” Huh?! Look-it, you may have had a lot of problem being a pudgy li’l ABF growing up in the States and thus perhaps the reason why you’re so militant on everything – but hey – nobody forced you to do anything here and heck – why would a BIG guy like you need protection??? From what?? Yourself is the only thing I can think of!! LOL!!

And in all your seething anger (I mean Christ Almighty – I can just picture you frothing at the mouth at these …. Just written words … Jeez – how are you in real life??!!) you cain’t even read that I was writing about the Virgin KTV and you – Virgin Sauna!

Like I said Guy, just sit back a bit, breathe in slowly and think… really think… how you’re coming off lookin’ here. Look-it – you’re just one guy – the same as the rest of us here – so why try so hard to “prove” your Macho here. I don’t give a damn and I’d think that Nobody else would give a damn either! Except perhaps our friend “Longtime monger in CP “ who’s probably Rolling around on the floor right now, laughing his fool crazy ass off, knowing that he’d conned you into doing the heavy liftin’….. all by yourself!! Whilst he Gallantly rides off into the sunset…..!!

Gotta hand it to you “Longtime Monger in CP” you may be nuts and you may be weird – but you certainly ain’t no damn fool!! Only question is – How come?? What are you trying to do??

Peace Bro… Peace!!

SEAJ

Ps. Hey Web "Man of Action" - you want a job as my body guard?? I need someone who's always gungho and don't do too much thinkin'! I'll pay good!

[Fast Eddie 48]

Do you think every monger is a push over?

I already had my a problem in CP and I stood up to what I thought was right.

In short:

I got a girl from one of the BBSs. When we got back to my room all she wanted to do was blow me. I said noway. I motioned we are going to back the BBS. She would'nt leave my room. She used her index finger to tell me she wanted 100 RMB to leave. I said no way. For a good 10 mins I tried to get her out of the room. Finally I pulled the keycard so it cut all the power.

We went back to the BBS and I argued with the Mommy. I told them her I wanted to exchange girls or give me my 100 RMB back. She said No and she got on her cell phone. 5 mins later a Chinese guy walks in dressed in a track suit. He looks and me and I look right back at him. He knew I was not going to back down and was ready to fight. This is all taking place behind a locked steel door.

He asks the Mommy in Chinese. He asks me in somewhat decent English. Then he asks the girl what is going on. After listening to all 3 of our stories. He tells me I should pay the girl at least 50 RMB for blowing me, the Mommy should pay the girl 50 RMB, which then the Mommy freaks out. She is now yelling and tries to kick me. The guy in the track suit looks at me as if to say it was ok to kick her back. I thought enough was enough, I don't fight girls.

The next few days I went back to the same BBS, wound up getting the same girl with out even knowing (a lot of the girls look the same to me). The Mommy was nice to me. She seen be going in and out of other BBSs pulling girls. She knew I was spending and none of the other girls had a problem with me.

The point is I did'nt back down even if it was a small amount. Yes I put myself into a dangerous situation being locked behind a steel door. But it is not about the money it is about the principle. I am not going to be ripped off.Web,

I think if you a good customer you can get the mamasan to exchange a girl for you, but if the girl already give you a BBBJ you should give the girl some money like 50 rmb, don't be a hard ass is not worth getting you ass kick for just a few bucks.

Fast Eddie 48

[Santa]

Sometimes it is better not to reply to a poster you disagree with. If your advice or opinion is not wanted then why give it? It will be ignored anyway.

Usually, a bbs girl would rather a quick shag and not give a blowjob. I think a bbs girl who will give a blow job but not a shag is hiding a problem. Maybe on her period? Infection? Deformity? Just had a baby? Recent scar? Anyway, she is hungry and broke, so the poor girl does what she can.

It's really not her fault, she is just trying to survive. It's a hard world out there! She cannot find a decent job and she is doing what she doesn't want to do, but must. I think this is the type of situation where Joe would say "treat her as a human being".

[Web Connect]

Web Connect,

Who said Dave was extorting anything or charging hefty fees in commissions? I said he was providing a service of convenience. I use his service myself to book my hotel and I have been going to CP since 1992. Am I a newbie? So what if I pay the same rate and he makes a few bucks. IMHO, he is a nice guy and I want to help him out if I can. It is as simple as that. If you think otherwise, just don't use his service. There is no need to thrash the guy when you know absolutely nothing about it first hand.

I really want to put an end to this dialogue about Dave but you took my post way out of context.

Just my POV.

OAHThat is fine. I have no problem with someone running a business as long as it is honest.

Is it the truth?

Is it fair to all concerned?

Will it build good will and better friendships?

Will it be beneficial to all concerned?

[Web Connect]

But hey – then you wouldn't need to be kicked out of the KTV by the rest of the guys for NOT agreeing to sharing the expenses that night huh?! Oh Yeah – of course I've heard about this!I was never kicked out of the KTV, I was'nt planning on paying for girls to sit with me and I did'nt think it was fair to split a bill to get all the other guys girls drunk. I paid up what we agreed was fair and I left on my on. There was'nt any prolem.


Your hotel pricing? Where the hell did you get all those prices? A fool and his moneyI got those prices first hand from the Hotel managers. If you have different hotel prices please list them for all to C.


What's with all these voyeuristic pictures of gals on the street? You get off on that huh?Big time. Did you see any girls you recognize? What do you think of the quality of my pictures so far? I will be posting more.


Ps. Hey Web. You want a job as my body guard? I'll pay good!How much is good?

[Cloud Palms]

I too want to drop the subject of Dave but not before I say my thanks for helping me out with just about everything in my 5 day CP trip. I've been to CP before but not often so as things rapidly change you need help knowing where things are and who to call. These are things a short term traveler does not have time for so he asks the help of friends who live in the area.

A few things he helped me out with that made my stay much more enjoyable and also saved me money.

1) In the middle of a yan da, he found a good KTV that was open for business

2) Directed me to a currency changer which gave a rate much better than what hotels would change you...6.2 - 6.5 usually.

3) Hooked me up with a driver to take me to Shenzhen for a better rate than what hotels charge.

4) Lent me his DVD player so I can watch movies in the footie.

All awesome stuff that he helps people on this board with, I dont know why some make a big deal about it. Just relax and enjoy CP while its still around.

[Ozirob]

Apologize if I seem to be incredulous - but I am sceptical NOT at what you relayed to us - but questioning what your friend (Or colleague??? Which makes it all the more difficult for him to relay the whole truth of the matter) told you.


You are right, as i said in my post we could debate who did what, but my point was that only that anyone can find themselves in a situation that has become out of control, if they are not careful.

About the number of heavies, may have been because they knew we were a group of 13, with one fairly large (powerful, not fat) Angmo.


Ozirob

[Weelock]

Exactly how I am I back stabbing anyone?

Do you expect all newbies to come here to be extorted for a protection and be charged though the nose paying high commissions ?

Members tried to answer some of your questions before you came to CP and later you find their answers are full of shit, back stabbing.

Like taking pictures in public, was not advised. So, what if they said it's fine and NOTHING will happen, taking pictures in the streets and in a KTV / saunas. It's safe. Then later you find out pictures are not allowed in KTV / saunas or you got your ass kicked like what happened to someone. You expensive camera was taken away. Then you will start complaining that guys lied to you and gave you bad advice.

You said some thug got in your face about taking pictures, is a perfect example of what people are trying to tell you, be careful. It could have gotten worst. Like someone else said, people tried to help and warn you but you think guys are giving bad advice. We feel our advice falls on death ears.



As you can see I didn't listen to their words of warning and did what I alwasys do. Yeah I may have brought attention to myself, Yes I had police come check out what I was doing, Yes I had some thug looking guys get in my face asking why I was taking pictures of them. But that did not stop me. I shot over 800 pictures and only stopped because the sun went down.

I agree with OAH, with your attitude, you were bound to get into an altercation. If you continue I am sure things will get worst. What will happen if both parties will not back down but you said it will not matter if you are killed. IMHO It is best to keep a low profile especially if you are Caucasian when mongering in China. You are not in your home turf.

I recall you said you are not a fan of KTV. Why did you contact other members and you went to a KTV ? Now I just read you did not want to pay your share.

[Web Connect]

Members tried to answer some of your questions before you came to CP and later you find their answers are full of shit.

Like taking pictures in public it is not advised. So, what if they said it's fine and NOTHING will happen if you take pictures in the street. Then later you find out pictures are not allowed. You will start complaining they lied to you and gave you bad advice.Of course I know the risks involved with taking pictures of people in the street. But if you have never done it do it or have no experience doing it, then you are really qualified to answer my questions.

I was told it was dangerous to take pictures of people in the street. Which I found to be untrue!


I recall you said you are not a fan of KTV. Why did you contact other members and you went to a KTV? Now I just read you did not want to pay your share.I did'nt contact another member. They contacted me. They invited me to a KTV and I accepted. No I am not a fan of KTV, but I went to see for myself so I can give an honest review and option. You can read this thread (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php? P=958868&postcount=2074) of my opinion on KTV. (I am not sure why the font is so big. Maybe the moderator can fix that)

I paid my share.

I did'nt not want to pay for a girl to sit with me and I did'nt think it was fair to pay into splitting a bill to get the other guys multiple girls drunk.

The host and I agreed on a fair price of what I should pay. We shook hands and I left. There was no problem with the bill or my share being paid.

[SE Asia Joe]

Ok, guys! I read that topic regularelly, but in last time things are not clear for me. You need to know that I never been in CP, I 2 times per year visit Guangzhou. Few months ago I discovered that great forum and after few nights of reading decided to visit that "paradise" called CP/ Dongguan. Me and 7 my friends want to come at the end of February. Dave suggested me in to contact with him. I sent priv. Mess. But he didn't reply me yet.
I have no problems with travels/walks in anyway in China alone or only with friends (I mean without any guide).
But reading that all about CP last weeks I'm not so sure. Please, can somebody can tell me very clear: is the good idea to arrange all time in CP only by myself or better is to arrange it with help of some "guide"?
I pay more when I'm alone, or am I in bigger dangerous being alone?
And probably it's not a problem to book a hotel with normal price, right?
I'll be really happy if someone can suggest me what should I do.
P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm not very fluent.
GREAT!!!! How opportune this post and question!!
(And Criss Thor, don’t worry if you start getting accused by Web connect that you are in some kind of unholy cabal headed by the Evil Dave or myself – just ignore it!!)

DISCLAIMER –

OK – I am SE Asia Joe and I AM a friend of Big Swingin Dave and I DO most times rent a room at BS Dave’s for the convenience of getting together with the guys in town, to save a bit of money and also to help Dave save a bit of money.

No, I do NOT make one single penny from whatever BS Dave is able to make from his guiding services but YES I do want him to make as much $$ as possible., but in an ethical, lawful and most importantly SAFE way.

And YES, I have advised him plenty on what I think is alright to do and not alright to do – and for the most part, he has taken such advise.

You satisfied Web C??

And I am answering this for him as I believe that under forum rules, one is NOT allowed to advertise goods and services except in the classifieds – but since I am NOT the provider of BS DAVE’s service, and I have NO financial ties at all with him and just merely recommending his services, I believe that I’ve satisfied the forum rules. On the other hand, I WILL gladly move it to the classifieds if the moderator think it more appropriate. Anyway…

BS Dave’s services:
1. Booking of Hotel rooms, Golf, KTV rooms, Footsies, Transportation, Train station/airport pick-up and all other general Travel Agency type functions. He DOES make a commission paid to him by the hotel/KTV etc. but please note that such commissions are already inbuilt into the pricing structure of the products that these establishment charge/are routinely paid out to vendors, travel agents etc as a normal expense and in the course of doing regular business.

You will NOT be charged anything extra for asking BS Dave to do the booking etc for you and you will NOT be able to get the booking for any cheaper yourself.
NOTE** If you find out different, please do Dave a favor and inform him of the facts as he will then need to pursue such with the vendor for this non-regular modus operandi. (BTW, This has NOT happened in the past – but who’s to know the future?)

2. Personalized Tour guiding services for US$75/pax or US$100/multiple pax group (max 5 guys) per day: I’ve seen Dave go from 9:00 AM in the morning to well past 3:00 AM the next morning being a shadow to his client for the whole day. If you’re a total newbie and non Chinese speaker, you may want to opt for this service for at least the first couple or so days to get familiarized; BS Dave is cool to still then maintain contacts etc afterwards and arrange things for you – but of course not at your total beck and call as he would when he’s employed as a personal guide.
NOTE: This personalized Guiding is purely optional and NOT a prerequisite for BS Dave to arrange his other services for you.

3. KTV party organizing and hosting: BS Dave will arrange for a group of guys to get together to go to a KTV to party together. This is a great service especially for you guys who are alone in CP, as you will get a chance to meet up with a great bunch of like minded fellow mongers, save $$ on your KTV bill (DJ fees, mandatory fruit platters, room minimum charges etc can then be split by more participants vs. 1 or 2 guys), learn the ropes and the Yes Yes and No No’s of KTV’ing, and have the relative safety in numbers. And here – yes, MOST (not all!) KTV’s pays Dave anywhere between 3 – 10% of the bill (more on the lower end) but NO, these percentages do NOT end up getting charged ADDITIONALLY as like I said, such commission are inbuilt and just the cost of doing normal business.

BS Dave SHOULD charge a nightly “hosting Fee” of RMB 200 or RMB 300 for over 5 guys for making sure that the KTV don’t rip you guys off with all sorts of tricks up their sleeves and that you guys have a good time by arranging games/activities etc which will make half-way sure that the gals entertain you etc.

Actually, I’ve been debating with him on this hosting fee, as he’s always telling me he don’t feel good about doing this if most of the guys are friends; but HELL – ALL the guys that are now his friends used to be strangers to him before they came to CP!! And Hell, even the DJ's make this RMB 200 - and her main fucntion in the room is to build up charges vs. Dave who will try to save you $$!! So guys –who are now friends of Dave, why dontcha specifically tell him to charge this hosting fee (or suggest a smaller /larger amount etc) each time - as you and I both know that the guy’s really not making enough yet. His regular job is now taking a bit more of his time and he’s told me that if things pick back straight up, he’d gladly give up this guiding thing as he’s really not making that much/enough from it. I for one would hate to see this to happen, don’t know what you guys think (Not you Web Connie and/or Mr. Long time Monger – I KNOW what you’re gonna say – but hey Mr. LT Monger – you cain’t really post here can you??!!! Muahahah!!).

4. He will be your “Point Man” when you are coming to and in Chang Ping. You can phone him for assistance, help with translation, go out for dinner, footsies, lend you or go with you to get you stuff, change money, ask for directions, mess around with etc and just be the friend you’d like to have when you are in any strange town.

5. He will try his best to steer you away from any possible problems or dangers and of course try to solve any problems you may encounter.


What BS Dave will NOT do:
A. Introduce girls, be in between you and any girl or acting in any way, capacity or function as a pimp; this is not only illegal, it also does NOT make that much money and is fraught with all sorts of danger and unforeseen consequences. So Please do not ask him to do so.

B. He will also NOT take you on a chicken run himself personally but would try to arrange for somebody else who does not mind, to lead you guys to these BBS’s. Worse come to worse, if there is no other way, then he will take you to the locality of these BBS’s, point you the way, but do not expect him to go in the BBS with you.


I think I’ve covered most points – anybody else wants to add to this??

Thanks

SEAJ

[Donwon]

My friend had to go back home so decided to take a shot at CP again as I didn't quite experience the KTV scene fully due to the raid while at the Manhattan. Was on my own now so contacted BSD who booked me at the Swan Lake again.

This time BSD took us to the Miraton. The gals were still in street clothes but the selection was better. We were a small group with Jim Traveller, One Eyed Pea (I don't quite remember the name) and another monger with his gal friend also showing up. Picked 2 gals as before as this was relayed to me as the usual thing to do. This way you have a choice as to the one you want to take out when the evening winds down. For me it was not a good idea as my mandarin is limited and it makes it frustrating to understand what the gals are saying as they try to draw your attention to them from two sides. Anyhow, as others were taking two each and another took three I went with the flow. Come to think about it I would be subsidizing for the drinks and food cost of others if I only took 1 and the others took two or three. At the end of the evening I took the one that kept clinging to me. KTV room/food/ DJ cost was $400 each. Not such great luck with this pick though as her nipples were inverted and this really didn't get me going. Anyway, can't be so lucky all the time.

[Santa]

Web Connect,

I will warn you that here in China nobody fights fair. They will gang up on you, possibly with knives, and you will not stand a chance.

I know personally guys that have been held for days at knifepoint, beaten and bank accounts drained out by ATM before they were let go.
.

Late one night I saw a guy get the living-shit beat out of him in the alley at the back of the Hui Mei Hotel. A gang of several guys slowly and methodically kicked and punched this guy while a large crowd watched the show. The guy could not possibly fight back, but these thugs each took turns inflicting another blow. He was a Chinese guy.

Mostly in China it is just petty theft, but sometimes more than that.

Of course, shit happens in every city and country, especially in bad areas, and shit happens in China too.

My rules: Be very polite, don't be antagonistic, be reasonable and fair, keep your electronics in your hotel safe, be careful about taking photos, don't carry valubles and cards, don't follow touts if you don't know where you are going, etc!

If you have never been to CP before, i would recommend you hookup with a regular visitor, if he is willing and able to meet you and show you around. Or, maybe hire BSD? I have no idea about BSD charges, but not much I would imagine. According to Joe, BSD is not pimping the girls, only offering a guide service, and I know Joe is an honest and reliable guy. And BSD is a cool guy too!

I'm not saying CP is terribly dangerous and you should avoid going there, just saying to be courteous and use common sense. If you are rude, or if they think you have lots of money, you might become a target.

[Web Connect]

Please, can somebody can tell me very clear: is the good idea to arrange all time in CP only by myself or better is to arrange it with help of some "guide"?

I pay more when I'm alone, or am I in bigger dangerous being alone?

And probably it's not a problem to book a hotel with normal price, right?

I'll be really happy if someone can suggest me what should I do.Don't let these guys scare you. If you have been to China before you should feel comfortable in Changping.

I am in Changping alone and I do not have any problems. Actually I enjoy traveling and doing things on my own.

Yes you can book a hotel on your own. But try to book in advance. Weekends some of the hotels can be booked full. You can read my recent Thread on Hotels in CP (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php? P=958860&postcount=2073).

You can read my humble option on KTVs in this thread (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php? P=958868&postcount=2074).

I will be making maps and instructions which will show you the directions to the BBS which I enjoy and choose.

What language do you speak?

[Web Connect]

YES I do want him to make as much $$ as possible., but in an unethical, lawful and most importantly SAFE way.

You satisfied Web C?Definitions of unethical on the Web:

- not conforming to approved standards of social or professional behavior; "unethical business practices"

- Not morally approvable; morally bad; not ethical

Yes I am satisfied.

[Web Connect]

Of course, shit happens in every city and country, especially in bad areas, and shit happens in China too.Exactly. Shit happens everywhere.


My rules: Be very polite, don't be antagonistic, be reasonable and fair, keep your electronics in your hotel safe, be careful about taking photos, don't carry valubles and cards, don't follow touts if you don't know where you are going, etc!I agree with some of your rules:

I am always polite.

I am only antagonistic if provoked.

I am fair.

I always bring my camera with me at all times. What is the use of leaving it in a hotel safe?

I am alwasys careful when taking pictures because I want to make sure they come out good. I will decide where and when I take a picture.

I don't have any valuables or cards.

Following touts where I don't know where I am going is the only way to find the BBSs.


I'm not saying CP is terribly dangerous and you should avoid going there, just saying to be courteous and use common sense. If you are rude, or if they think you have lots of money, you might become a target.I agree. I am courteous and use common sense. I am not rude and I for sure don't think I have a lot of money.

Thanks for your advice.

[Donwon]

IMHO, enough has been posted about the pros and cons of what BSD does in CP. He provides a service and makes a few bucks at it. I reckon most of us are old enough and well enough informed to make our own decisions whether we want to deal with Dave or not. I look at it as a matter of convenience. If you want to invest the time and hassle of doing it all yourself, that's OK. If you want to save your time and energy, call Dave.

Frankly, and I confess I am guilty of falling into it myself, this thread has become a pissing match. Can we all let it go and get back to the purpose of this forum?

Where's the pussy at?

Just my POV.

OAHOk. Went up a 3rd time to CP from SZ as there was going to be a big group in town. About 12 members loaded onto a bus arranged by BSD and we headed out on a 10 minute ride to the Eurasia KTV.

It was such a spectacular sight when we entered the floor where the gals were. All were in costumes. About 200 plus mostly available to be shagged. Wow. Mind boggling I must say. Lots to choose from but I had a hard time picking one. There were quite a few who were not to my standards. Ended up picking a 3-6-9 and a 2-5-8 for sitting with the help of fellow mongers. Anyway, the evening turned out fine except the 2-5-8 took off from me from about half an hour. Don't know why but I think I was paying a liitle more attention to the 3-6-9 gal. Mentioned this to BSD. He wanted to mention this to management but I asked him to give her a break. When she did come back she did apologize and the mama also came and gave her card to me. Mentioned something I did not quite understand. I had to let this go as I had made up my mind I was going to take the 3-6-9 gal and didn't want to ruin the evening raising any sort of shit.

Anyway, took the 3-6-9 Guangxi gal home for LT. Was well worth it as she was my type. From my POV the Eurasia had the best selection.

PS: Previously, the HUI MEI had a live band in the Da Ting or is it Da Tong and there were gals available to sit with and then for take out if you wished to. The entry fee was $50 and I remember they had a great Philippino band. Do any members know if this still exists?

Thanks

[Da Dicknotist]

I had the pleasure of meeting BSD for the first time last week, going to a 10 person or so KTV he arranged at the Eurasia KTV. I knew about half the guys - I guess the mongering ISG community is pretty small!

Everyone seemed to have an idea of how this KTV thing worked, and was pretty open about playing games and flirting with each others' girls so it made for a more fun environment once the drinks starting flowing. I think the key to a good KTV experience is that you're interested in flirting with all the girls and make a fun mood for everyone involved, as then the girls are much more engaged, and are inherently competing for the overnight business. It was just a good mix of guys, just as Dave said.

Eurasia is one of the newer hotels in CP and somewhere I had never been before. My friends who live in CP go there pretty often for business and have nothing but great things to say. I'm overwhelmed by the quantity of girls at the flower show, but the quality is pretty typical of a CP KTV. It's in the middle of damn nowhere though, which sucks, but Dave was nice enough to arrange for a van to come pick us up from the hotel we were staying at.

Costs came out to be about 450 a person, which is a little higher than my normal spending but each guy sat about two girls, we drank like fish, and we ordered food as well. I have no idea what it would've been like had Dave not been there as it's hard to monitor how much was drunk, but I can confidently say costs would've been at most the same. Whatever he's making from the KTV isn't enough for me to consider making it my job, and is less than a fair rate, in my opinion.

When the night ended two other friends decided to take a bunch of gals out clubbing. They had to wait in the cold outside for me because I ran into a former KTV girl I knew who was now working as an assistant mamsan.

We go to the club (Xin Di) and it freaking sucks. I end up overnighting a girl that now won't stop calling me, and one of the other girls keeps on sending me text messages asking me which room I'm in even though I've left CP for about a week... All in all, a positive experience.

[Julian K]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because it contributed nothing of value and in fact constituted a complete waste of bandwidth.

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex. Let's stick to the subject.

[Wadman]

Your hotel pricing?? Where the hell did you get all those prices?? A fool and his money…


What's wrong with Web Connect's hotel prices? Seem pretty accurate to me.



Miraton Hotel: Deluxe Single Room

Guide Price: 660 RMB

Your price: 328 RMB

Hui Hua Hotel: Superior Room

Guide Price: 710 RMB

Your price: 329 RMB

New Century Hotel: Deluxe Single Room

Guide Price: 638 RMB

Your price: 298 RMB

[SE Asia Joe]

Ok, guys! I read that topic regularelly, but in last time things are not clear for me. You need to know that I never been in CP, I 2 times per year visit Guangzhou. Few months ago I discovered that great forum and after few nights of reading decided to visit that "paradise" called CP/ Dongguan. Me and 7 my friends want to come at the end of February. Dave suggested me in to contact with him. I sent priv. Mess. But he didn't reply me yet.

I have no problems with travels/walks in anyway in China alone or only with friends (I mean without any guide).

But reading that all about CP last weeks I'm not so sure. Please, can somebody can tell me very clear: is the good idea to arrange all time in CP only by myself or better is to arrange it with help of some "guide"?

I pay more when I'm alone, or am I in bigger dangerous being alone?

And probably it's not a problem to book a hotel with normal price, right?

I'll be really happy if someone can suggest me what should I do.

P.S. Sorry for my english, I'm not very fluent.
Guess I'd better answer your questions specifically huh?!

OK, IMHO and strictly my point of view and you are of course more than free to make your own choice (this is to make sure that there ain't gonna be any more controversies like with ole Webbie and my supposed bias. Jeez - how the hell am I gonna write future reports if I have to keep on worrying about making sure that people ain't gonna think I'm conning them or extorting them or.. ??? JEEZUZZ!!).

Chang Ping IMHO is NOT a very safe place in general and I'd definitely advise first timers to at least get together with another member who knows the place and/or ARE experienced - but after this last Webbie outburst, I for sure ain't gonna volunteer myself to help out anybody. If you cannot get somebody to help you out for free - you can:
1. ask that Taiwanese Travel agency ISX or ??? that was mentioned here a few pages back, or
2. Go to Gucci at the 2/f of the Hua Yu - who's a real sharpy at booking hotels, selling you fake Vit V and C, designer bags, and will take you around to the BBS etc. NO I do not know much more about this guy excepting that he's available and I do THINK that he'll probably ain't really gonna give you a fair shake. Not sure either way, don't know him all that well
3. Get "Long time Monger in CP" to take you around - and he'll be more than pleased to do so as he REALLLY Loves being the Monger leader - you just need to keep on praisin' him every 45 minutes or so. And last choice that I know of is of course to
4. get a hold of BS Dave.

If you do decide to get together with Dave, I'd recommend that you 7 guys shell out the US$100 personalized guide service for at least one or a couple days or so and let BS Dave to take you around, show you where things are laid out, what to avoid,how much to pay for things and services... basically to get the lay of the land and after you 7 are all settled in and know the basics, then you could decide whether to still continuing to employ Dave or not. No you are NOT going to pay one cent more for the things that Dave takes you to - and in fact I'm very confident that he's gonna save you lots of money and make sure you don't get ripped off on anything. i.e. hotels, transport, footsies, KTV's, stuff you buy etc etc.

And of course he'll try his best to keep you and your friends away from harm's way as really - and NOT fear mongering - I DO think that CP is NOT all that safe especially for newbies who don't know what to watch out for.

Like I said, totally my IMHO and only my own opinion and YMMV and please you make up your own mind

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

What's wrong with Web Connect's hotel prices? Seem pretty accurate to me.
What in the world are "Guide Prices?"

Is this what your buddy Long time Monger in CP is feeding Web C - or is this actually what L.T. Monger in CP is quoting for when he sets up his "Bespoke Travel Service?"

SEAJ

[Santa]

It's all relative. I'm the kind of guy that would rather go it alone and not hire another guy to show me around and book things for me. But for a guy who does not speak any chinese, doesn't have a lot of freetime, and has no connections, it might be good for him. It can take a lot of time and homework to figure this town out on your own.

Cost? Well, for some guys $100 is a lot of cash, for other guys it is peanuts.

For one guy a $100 guide or helper might be considered a ripoff, for another guy it is money well spent.

Also, I wouldn't call Dongguan particularly dangerous, but it is not Disneyland either. Caution and courtesy is advised.

[Web Connect]

I for sure ain't going to volunteer myself to help out anybody.

SEAJThis site is "suppose" to be about helped each other out. Posting and sharing information.

Why not just post all the information and directions for free???

So everyone can benefit from it!

Scan the business cards of all the places and all he has to do is show it to the taxi driver?

The price system here in CP is simple enough.

Getting around by taxi is easy.

[Web Connect]

What the hell are "Guide Prices? "

Is this what your buddy Long time Monger in CP is feeding Web C. Or is this actually what L. T. Monger in CP is quoting for when he sets up his "Bespoke Travel Service? "

SEAJThis practice of having 2 sets of prices, a guide/rack rate price vs the real price.

I got the real prices from all the hotel managers. If a guide set up a customer in a hotel the customer would be charged the guide/rack rate price.

If you have different rates for hotels. PLEASE post them.

I have no clue who this "Long time Monger in CP" you keep posting about.

[Web Connect]

It's all relative. I'm the kind of guy that would rather go it alone and not hire another guy to show me around and book things for me. But for a guy who does not speak any Chinese, doesn't have a lot of freetime, and has no connections, it might be good for him. It can take a lot of time and homework to figure this town out on your own.

Cost? Well, for some guys $100 is a lot of cash, for other guys it is peanuts.

For one guy a $100 guide or helper might be considered a ripoff, for another guy it is money well spent.I agree. I like to do things on my own just for the fun of it. It is what makes sex tourism so fun. Anyone can get laid when paying for. So part of the adventure is doing it on my own.

I could also care less if someone pays a guide.

Out of curiosity. Let's list what aprox $100 USD can get you in Changping.

1. One group tour with BSDave

2. Deluxe Single Room at the 5 Star Miraton Hotel including buffet breakfast, plus 2 full service encounters with some really hot BBS girls.

3. 10 foot massages.

4. Please continue this list.

[Wadman]

What the hell are "Guide Prices?"


From http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1481581726/guide_price.html
guide price:
price seller expects somebody to pay: the price that a seller can expect something, especially a house, to fetch

From http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/guide-price
definition of guide price:
the price at which you expect to sell something, especially a house

In this case, the "Guide Price" is what the hotel expects you to pay for the room. Or more accurately, what the hotel expects A SUCKER to pay for the room.

Web Connect may not take advice very well, but he is a straightshooter (with his camera too?). If he wanted to intimate that the "Guide Prices" are BSDave's prices, I am sure he would have just come out and said so.

I once again say that Web Connect was correct in his posting of hotel prices in CP.



Miraton Hotel: Deluxe Single Room
Guide Price: 660 RMB
Your price: 328 RMB

Hui Hua Hotel: Superior Room
Guide Price: 710 RMB
Your price: 329 RMB

New Century Hotel: Deluxe Single Room
Guide Price: 638 RMB
Your price: 298 RMB




Is this what your buddy Long time Monger in CP is feeding Web C - or is this actually what L.T. Monger in CP is quoting for when he sets up his "Bespoke Travel Service?"

SEAJ

This is the second time that you accuse someone here of setting up a travel/guide agency. Both times without any evidence or credibility. This is most ironic seeing who IS/ARE actually doing this.

PS: next time please leave out the profanities.

[Playboy2000]

The odd thing is that most the people who bash Dave and his services have never met the guy. Almost everyone who knows him likes him and appreciates his services.

It is quite unfortunate that this whole Dave discussion has resurfaced. I thought it was put to rest several months ago.

I am not a total CP newbie. I speak very little Chinese, but occassionally go to BBSs, night market, and dirty footies on my own. I love KTVs, particuarly those in CA. I can do a lot of own my own and I do a lot on my own.

Having said that, when in CP, I am very happy that Dave is around, and I hope he stays around. I have stayed in HH and Miraton both on several occasions on previous trips. But I followed Dave's suggestion to give Clipper a try, and I am now a Clipper convert. The Clipper is a little nicer than both those hotels, and it is cheaper. The neighborhood has its pros and cons vis-vis the main drag. I have used Dave's driver several times. It is very convenient and the price is good. I have joined in on many of Dave's KTV parties. He set up and orchestrated great parties at the CP naked KTV, CA KTV, Virgin KTV and elsewhere. He keeps the cost down, and keeps all the annoying sales people out of the room. I agree with SEAJ that he should add a small surcharge to the bill; perhaps 50RMB per monger. There are times when he goes to a KTV that is not one of my favs, in which case I simply decline. There are times he suggests a sauna that is not one of my favs, and again I simply decline. No problem.

Another point is that Dave is not making much money from all of this. He works hard and gets paid little. So can we please stop the Dave bashing.

Dave, I hope you can find a way to make a decent living providing your services, because I for one greatly appreciate them. And please keep sending your little summary reports - they are great.

[Jaimito Cartero]

I had Dave show me around, I think in the May/June time period of this year. He was quite helpful, and even helped when a SL chica was trying to scam me.

I paid the normal 198 per night for my hotel room. I got the nice renovated floor, and if he got a commission, more power to him. I certainly couldn't have gotten it cheaper.

I'd certainly recommend him to anyone coming to town.

[Santa]

In this case, the "Guide Price" is what the hotel expects you to pay for the room. Or more accurately, what the hotel expects A SUCKER to pay for the room.
.

But, in Dongguan, we all know that the posted price is not the real or expected guide price. The "real" guide price is the price they quote us verbally.

[Santa]

Thinking Dongguan is safe or dangerous depends on your personal experiences.

If you go there several times and always feel safe and confident, and never see or hear of any trouble, then you will think it safe.

If you get mugged, beaten and robbed, and hear of several similar stories, then you will think Dongguan is dangerous.

I have nearly been a victim and have known of others who also were victims or nearly became victims. Usually these thugs are only after the money, but if you are macho and try to resist you could get seriously hurt.

For example, some guy tried to pick my pocket outside a video store opposite the Miraton and Virgin hotels. When I confronted him he flashed a dagger, so i then quickly backed off.

Then again, the same can happen in any big city's bad areas, where you go prowling around looking for hookers.

[BruceTea]

But, in Dongguan, we all know that the posted price is not the real or expected guide price. The "real" guide price is the price they quote us verbally.

I get what you're saying. But...

The person has already connected “a guide” with Dave so his posts uses 'guide' in connection to Dave. The not-so-general and specific definition of guide in connection to "price guide" is based on the "book price" or a "guideline" which is inanimate, but the 'guide' posters here use 99% in the forum and understood 99% in context within the posts is a 'guide' who is an advisor (a person). With "especially a house," used in the literal definition of a "price guide," it can be seen that he used the term extremely loosely shoehorning the term into this situation, thus causing misleading accusations against a guide (another use of the word, a common use of the word). Confusing, ain't it?



PS, where's the pussy at?

[Bob Builder]

Do you think every monger is a push over ?

I already had my a problem in CP and I stood up to what I thought was right.

In short:
I got a girl from one of the BBSs. When we got back to my room all she wanted to do was blow me. I said noway. I motioned we are going to back the BBS. She would'nt leave my room. She used her index finger to tell me she wanted 100 RMB to leave. I said no way. For a good 10 mins I tried to get her out of the room. Finally I pulled the keycard so it cut all the power.

We went back to the BBS and I argued with the Mommy. I told them her I wanted to exchange girls or give me my 100 RMB back. She said No and she got on her cell phone. 5 mins later a Chinese guy walks in dressed in a track suit. He looks and me and I look right back at him. He knew I was not going to back down and was ready to fight. This is all taking place behind a locked steel door.

He asks the Mommy in Chinese. He asks me in somewhat decent English. Then he asks the girl what is going on. After listening to all 3 of our stories. He tells me I should pay the girl at least 50 RMB for blowing me, the Mommy should pay the girl 50 RMB, which then the Mommy freaks out. She is now yelling and tries to kick me. The guy in the track suit looks at me as if to say it was ok to kick her back. I thought enough was enough, I don't fight girls.

The next few days I went back to the same BBS, wound up getting the same girl with out even knowing ( a lot of the girls look the same to me ). The Mommy was nice to me. She seen be going in and out of other BBSs pulling girls. She knew I was spending and none of the other girls had a problem with me.

The point is I did'nt back down even if it was a small amount. Yes I put myself into a dangerous situation being locked behind a steel door. But it is not about the money it is about the principle. I am not going to be ripped off.

Sure, I have the same attitude but it can go wrong and you can get lucky. What if over 10 guys showed up and demanded a few grand like the other poster here?

I had a similar situation in Dongguan a few years back. I took a gal out of a BBS where I went every week and took at least 2 gals LT or 3-4 gals ST. Got a gal back to the hotel and and while fondling found she had a huge blister larger than a dime inside her labia. Sterlized my hand with steaming hot soapy water and returned her to BBS. Refused to pay but gal would not let me go. BBS owners husband showed up and demanded that I pay 500 as I handed his gal by pushing her off me when she tried to stop me leaving. LE showed up and since they controlled the action there, threatened to take be back to the station house and beat me up. I had not done the gal and said to them if they were willing to do a diseased gal, I would pay for it. Ended up that a buddy of mind cooled everyone off and settled it without any hassle. I was prepared to beat them up and leave, never to return. Fortunately it never got to that point for me or them.

[SE Asia Joe]

From http://uk.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1481581726/guide_price.html
guide price:
price seller expects somebody to pay: the price that a seller can expect something, especially a house, to fetch

From http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/guide-price
definition of guide price:
the price at which you expect to sell something, especially a house

In this case, the "Guide Price" is what the hotel expects you to pay for the room. Or more accurately, what the hotel expects A SUCKER to pay for the room.

Web Connect may not take advice very well, but he is a straightshooter (with his camera too?). If he wanted to intimate that the "Guide Prices" are BSDave's prices, I am sure he would have just come out and said so.

I once again say that Web Connect was correct in his posting of hotel prices in CP.
Good God Wadman - what's all this gobbledygook?

To clarify - the guide price means..... nothing!!! AND has no bearing at all in the present discussion. It is NOT what BS Dave or anybody gets charged. Web C just wrote it to give everybody the "impression" that this is what BS Dave charges his client. How sneaky!!

AND YES - he did go ahead and say this in his subsequent post!

BS Dave gets the booking done for his clients at the LOWER "Your price" that Web c put down.

Yeah - a straight shooter.... Indeed!!



This is the second time that you accuse someone here of setting up a travel/guide agency. Both times without any evidence or credibility. This is most ironic seeing who IS/ARE actually doing this.

PS: next time please leave out the profanities.
ACCUSE???

So what was the over 2 hours worth of conversation you, BS Dave and I had discussing the setting up of this service? This was only last Spring/Summer when we had this discussion. Surely You're not that old to have forgotten??!!

Come on Wadman!!

YOU had even been the one who pointed out what we can or cannot do, what we should or should not do!! And how you had discussed PREVIOUSLY with your buddy - who now Gallantly identifies himself as being "long time monger in CP" - the kind of travel guide service that YOU AND HE was thinking of setting up.

How you and he was going to package different items, activities, accommodation etc etc, mark it up nicely and then offer these under one "package"

WHAT accusation??

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

This practice of having 2 sets of prices, a guide/rack rate price vs the real price.

I got the real prices from all the hotel managers. If a guide set up a customer in a hotel the customer would be charged the guide/rack rate price.

If you have different rates for hotels. PLEASE post them.

I have no clue who this "Long time Monger in CP" you keep posting about.
No clue huh??

And yet your "facts" and even the exact wording matches those in the PMS that Zhuren received from "Long time monger in CP"

And this statement "...If a guide set up a customer in a hotel the customer would be charged the guide/rack rate price....." AGAIN, you are trying to intimate that BS Dave will book the rooms for his clients at this "guide" price whilst the TRUTH (and YOU KNOW THIS, as you had asked Dave to make your booking at the Clipper) is that BS Dave made the booking at the "Your Price" price.

Straight shooter indeed!!

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

This site is "suppose" to be about helped each other out. Posting and sharing information.

Why not just post all the information and directions for free???

So everyone can benefit from it!

Scan the business cards of all the places and all he has to do is show it to the taxi driver?

The price system here in CP is simple enough.

Getting around by taxi is easy.
PRECISELY - and you are here posting up nuggets like

CP is perfectly safe, It's OK to shoot pictures everywhere and anywhere, Always act like a big shot, get in front of every body's face in CP, follow any pimp or tout anywhere, demand, demand demand!!

Without even caring how many guys are gonna get into trouble if they follow your "Advise" and "Information"

Gimme a break!

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

That is fine. I have no problem with someone running a business as long as it is honest.

Is it the truth?

Is it fair to all concerned?

Will it build good will and better friendships?

Will it be beneficial to all concerned?
Oooooohhh the Four Way Test - a Rotarian!!

Remind me to quit Rotary!!

SEAJ

[Bob Builder]

I agree. I like to do things on my own just for the fun of it. It is what makes sex tourism so fun. Anyone can get laid when paying for. So part of the adventure is doing it on my own.

I could also care less if someone pays a guide.

Out of curiosity. Let's list what aprox $100 USD can get you in Changping.

1. One group tour with BSDave

2. Deluxe Single Room at the 5 Star Miraton Hotel including buffet breakfast, plus 2 full service encounters with some really hot BBS girls.

3. 10 foot massages.

4. Please continue this list.

Some people like to take guided tours, some like to backpack.

[Web Connect]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Web Connect]

Some people like to take guided tours, some like to backpack.That is true.

A Deluxe Single Room at the 5 Star Miraton Hotel is so much better than staying at the Chungking Mansions in HK !

[Web Connect]

Oh O, long time ISG member outed as a Ghetto third world pimp. Its time for a name change. We need a vote fellas for a more fitting moniker.I agree for the name change.

What does SE stand for anyway? Could it be South East?

If that is the case should'nt you be able to report more on all of South East Asia?

How about some more reports from SE Asia. Cambodia, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam The Philippines?

Have you ever even been to Pattaya or Angeles City? Considered by some the mecca of mongering.

[Web Connect]

Without even caring how many guys are going to get into trouble if they follow your "Advise" and "Information"

Give me a break!

SEAJThere you go again telling people they are going to get in trouble if they go to Changping alone.

Why don't you scan the business cards and maps of all the KTVs you suggest for people to go to like I did with my Thread on Hotels in CP (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=958860&postcount=2073). You can even give a contact name and number of a manager at the KTV that a fellow ISG member can contact when they get there. Or do you not trust the manager will give you your percentage.

Some people may not want to party in a group or be more discrete. Let them go to the KTVs you suggest on their own and make their own decisions.

Why do you disagree so much on my thread on KTVs (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?pP=958868&postcount=2074). It is only my humble opinion.

[OldAsiaHand]

IMHO, the problem is that some guys, me included, do what Dave does for free. For example, I used to book hotels pro bono for mongers that sent me a PM. I started getting so many PMs that I felt like an unpaid travel agent. If I was around, I would show them the ropes for free. I reckon that some of the guys that do it for free resent the fact that Dave is making money doing the same thing.

Many times, I would agree to hook-up with mongers coming over to China to show them around and they would just not call or show up at the agreed time. On the other hand, I have made some very good friends through this forum who I continue to monger with regularly in China. And, I have been lucky to hook-up with generous hosts in other countries I travel to.

Now, I am more selective who I help out on the ground. If it is a Senior Member who has RTFF, has made significant contributions to the forum in other areas and I feel he would reciprocate in his area of expertise, I am more than willing to assist. If it is a newbie that has not even RTFF, I will ignore his request.

Every member of this forum has a right to their opinion. As BB puts it; some like a guide, some like to backpack. Dave is not the only guy in CP doing this business. Transporter took me to a Taiwan company in the Walter Hotel once doing the same thing. This may be the same guys SEAJ is referring to. Some guys just want convenience and are willing to pay for it. If they are willing and can afford it, who cares?

Again, where's the pussy at?

Just my POV.

OAH

[SE Asia Joe]

Oh O, long time ISG member outed as a Ghetto third world pimp. Its time for a name change. We need a vote fellas for a more fitting moniker :)

Silky Joe…………Dongguan

Oh Good God – I wasn’t even going to acknowledge Julian first time poster – but I guess that this is now not an option! Not when even you Warbucks – who hardly ever post here, and who BTW, I thought from your other posts IS a straight shooter – would post this!! What made you do this Warbucks??

And for those of you who are getting as sick as I am about this whole thing – you may want to just skip reading this. This is really getting totally crazy.

Anyway…

Anybody who knows Dave and I know that we are 2 separate individuals.

And to explain what I think may have happened, please allow me to set out chronologically what I THINK happened/is happening.

Old Asia Hand had invited me down to CP 3++ years ago after reading my sorry ass story about my break up with my then GF. He introduced me to Santa, Bill Lee, CPexpat, Wadman, Tiger888 etc and that was when I started to come to CP often as I had a great time. What I wasn’t aware of then is the fact that this “long time monger in CP” had had a falling out with OAH and Bill Lee – who I became particularly close with. Does this have anything to do with what's happening now?

A year or so ago, I met BS Dave and very quickly, he and I became good friends – to the point that my business partner/friend Max offered Dave a position with a project we were starting. This project, although still in the back burner, needed to be postponed as circumstances had last Spring changed. So yes, Dave does have a full time job which he does not need to spend much of any time on.

Dave was then left with very little to do and he started figuring out ways on how to survive until the time we can revive our project – and that was when he figured that he can do this tour guiding thing as a meanwhile – and bounced this idea off me. As I feel a bit obligated to Dave (as Max and I had been instrumental in making Dave try it out in China i/o going back home) – and still do, I of course am going gangbusters to help him. Including defending him here right now!! And if anybody chose to think that because of this, I have a stake in what Dave is doing – well – then yes I do.

And for those who are wondering why Dave is not writing anything right now – it’s because he is now and until the middle of December traveling out of China on other matters.

Anyway, We then met up with Wadman and bounced Dave’s idea on him. We formally invited Wadman to join this venture as he had been trying to find something to do instead of just every day wasting his time. His vast knowledge, his residency in xxxx, China, his posting history here etc made him an ideal “partner” in this project for him to handle clients from and at where he lives. Wadman gave us wide ranging advise and actually formed the basis of a lot of what Dave is now doing. But then he told us that he was NOT going to participate as he is already in talks with “another ISG long timer” (who I of course know is “long time monger in CP (LMCP)), and that he and LMCP want to set up their business by offering one-priced “Bespoke Package Deals” which includes different components i.e hotel, guiding services, KTV, sauna etc PLUS a nice hefty mark-up.

That’s fine we thought, but Dave decided to just go ahead and offer his services as what I’d outlined, as he thinks that such a high-priced/marked-up product cannot be justified and indeed preys too much on newbies’s insecurities. And we thought that that was the end of the story.

What I didn’t realize – or even know about - is that somehow, somewhere AND I really don’t know why – LMCP was and I guess STILL is – pissed off at me. Look-it LMCP, whatever it is that I did or said or wrote or?? I never meant to get you pissed off. And since apparently I did do so – please now accept my heart felt apologies BUT for Crissakes – let’s drop all this rancour OK?

And Wadman – yes I STILL consider him a friend and I AM still in touch with him to try to cool things down. I keep on asking him how is it that LMCP seems to have such a Svengali hold on him. And right now, I also still wonder how is it that LMCP’s got such energy and smarts to orchestrate all this from behind the scene.

I mean Wadman - and Horny Asian Dawg from the previous time that we had all this happening on this board (and who BTW is OK with me as we did talk and cleared things up) ARE good, sensible and smart individuals – for them to be “puppet-ed” to the point that they’re doing ALL the heavy lifting here??!!

And oh never mind about Webbie – but Warbucks!! You too?

I hope that this will put a stop to all of this and that we know can get back to discussing what’s important here.

Where’s the pussy??

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

IMHO, the problem is that some guys, me included, do what Dave does for free. For example, I used to book hotels pro bono for mongers that sent me a PM. I started getting so many PMs that I felt like an unpaid travel agent. If I was around, I would show them the ropes for free. I reckon that some of the guys that do it for free resent the fact that Dave is making money doing the same thing.

Many times, I would agree to hook-up with mongers coming over to China to show them around and they would just not call or show up at the agreed time. On the other hand, I have made some very good friends through this forum who I continue to monger with regularly in China. And, I have been lucky to hook-up with generous hosts in other countries I travel to.

Now, I am more selective who I help out on the ground. If it is a Senior Member who has RTFF, has made significant contributions to the forum in other areas and I feel he would reciprocate in his area of expertise, I am more than willing to assist. If it is a newbie that has not even RTFF, I will ignore his request.

Every member of this forum has a right to their opinion. As BB puts it; some like a guide, some like to backpack. Dave is not the only guy in CP doing this business. Transporter took me to a Taiwan company in the Walter Hotel once doing the same thing. This may be the same guys SEAJ is referring to. Some guys just want convenience and are willing to pay for it. If they are willing and can afford it, who cares?

Again, where's the pussy at?

Just my POV.

OAH

Yes, I CAN see where some guys may feel that what Dave does should be done for free as they themselves do so.

But how realistic/common sense is that? I mean I used to do the exact same thing - but even for guys who are decent and good guys - it IS still a lot of work and unfortunately, many times, is a thankless task.

We now have a sort of professional in BS Dave doing it - and I strongly suggest he is doing it in an ethical and honest way and which does NOT increase any body's cost/expenses except if somebody decides to take up his personal tour guide services. But this is strictly optional and indeed, whether or not you want to use ANY of his service or not - it is strictly at your option.

Why is it that Long Time monger in CP is so against this - and indeed, he was also the guy that just about broke Dragon D in Shanghai in the past for offering paid guide services.

Does his need to be able to offer his "mongering leadership" services over-ride common sense? Decency? Common courtesy?

This is ALL getting to be so crazy and I for one am really getting sick and tired of this discussion - and thus i 100% agree - WHERE'S THE PUSSY!!

SEAJ

[Zhuren]

Times must be really bad down South when formerly old friends are in their faces and at each others throats for 10 RMB commission from a BBS girl.

Then I read OAH's comment that 90% of his Mongolian encounters were bliss, whereas with the Chinese, his odds dropped to 10 - 15%

All I can say, come to BJ, the city where the initials say it all. OAH, your favorite Mongolian is still here and occasionally mentions your name. She may even reconsider your question "will you be like Zhuren's wife?" We continue corrupting her ...

[Web Connect]

Directions to the Hui Mei and Jia Mei Hotel BBS

Lets start from the Miraton Hotel.

To get to the Miraton from the Hui Hau Hotel walk out the lobby and make a left, the Miraton is on the next corner.

To get to the Miraton from the New Century walk out the lobby make a left and walk all the way down the street to the main corner intersection.

To get to the Miraton from The Clipper or Swan LakeHotel, take a taxi by showing the taxi driver the print out you made. Should cost from 7 RMB to 10 RMB.

Changping Hotels (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=958860&postcount=2073)

Miraton Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125885)

Hui Hau Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125886)

New Century Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125887)

If you walk out of the Miraton Hotel lobby make a left, walk all the way until you see the Virgin Hotel ( it is on the left ). There is a park there. Straight ahead is the Hui Mei Hotel. If you enter the park and make a right towards the Jia Mei Hotel you will be approached by the BBS' runners who will show you the way. Some speak English and most have business cards with their numbers on them.

Jia Mei Hotel BBS: you will be taken up the elevator to one of the rooms in the Jia Mei hotel. I went from 3:00 p.m. all the way to 11:00 p.m. Cute Teens in the day but later at night the girls seemed to mature. Cost 150 RMB ( 50 RMB to Mommy 100 RMB to girl after the deed is done )

Hui Mei BBSs are located in the alley to the left of the Hui Mei Hotel, the BBS runners in front of the Jia Hotel will show you the way down the alley. It is a short walk. The BBS's are behind steel doors or you will walk though the front of a Salon.

You can also find the Hui Mei BBSs if you walk past the park and Hui Mei Hotel until you come to a bigger alley on your left. At the end is the Hua Yu Hotel. The BBS runners will also show you the way.

I went from 3:00 p.m. all the way to 11:00 p.m. Found some really cute girls. Cost 200 RMB ( 100 RMB to Mommy 100 RMB to girl after the deed is done )

I don't speak a word of Chinese, I did not have a guide. I did not feel in danger.

I am a newbie in Changping so if any more experienced mongers would like to add to this please do. Please do NOT post any scare stories. Save that for you Mommy. Please just post directions and facts.

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php) for more information.

[SE Asia Joe]

Well, that certainly explains a lot. Compared to a PIMP everyone else is just an arm chair pundit. So much for all the concern about other mongers being given the right information. Two tiered pricing and dirty pimp tactics. You can call him Long Duck Dick Joe since he mentioned that he has a big dong too.
Touche!!

You must really feel good to at last .... at long last ...have something else to write besides 3rd party "hot news"

ROFLMAO!!

SEAJ

[Weelock]

Times must be really bad down South when formerly old friends are in their faces and at each others throats for 10 RMB commission from a BBS girl.

Then I read OAH's comment that 90% of his Mongolian encounters were bliss, whereas with the Chinese, his odds dropped to 10 - 15%

All I can say, come to BJ, the city where the initials say it all. OAH, your favorite Mongolian is still here and occasionally mentions your name. She may even reconsider your question "will you be like Zhuren's wife?" We continue corrupting her ...

Can you be our free tour guide in Beijing ? :rolleyes: I have been to Beijing twice but there are still many place I want to go to up North in Beijing. I'm willing to buy you a drink at least.

[Zhuren]

Can you be our free tour guide in Beijing ? :rolleyes: I have been to Beijing twice but there are still many place I want to go to up North in Beijing. I'm willing to buy you a drink at least.

As this board knows, the Beijing faction always shows hospitality to senior contributors. And WE usually buy the drinks. Sammy tends to send mass messages to Mongolia and buys bottles.

[Weelock]

PRECISELY - and you are here posting up nuggets like

CP is perfectly safe, It's OK to shoot pictures everywhere and anywhere, Always act like a big shot, get in front of everybody's face in CP, follow any pimp or tout anywhere, demand, demand demand!!

Without even caring how many guys are gonna get into trouble if they follow your "Advise" and "Information"

Gimme a break!

SEAJ

I agree with you SEAJ.

What Web Connect writes that most reports in CP are false. Senior members should write everything is fine, no crack down happening, no crime, no problem and no scams. You will have NO problem getting around China without any Chinese the first time.

On a different matter, for Dave's travel agency people who used him have been very satisfied and recommend him. I don't recall reading someone saying not to use him after they tried his service. I believe what he makes is on commissions is not very much. He is not gouging people and his price is fair.

I heard Dragon D makes more on each of the girls.

[Jamie5063]

IMHO, the problem is that some guys, me included, do what Dave does for free.
OAH

I teach English too a lot of nice looking chicks for free. They treat me like a piece of meat, you have to be a man too know how good that feels. Then the male friends call me and the price goes up 200 Rmb an hour Its not a problem.They do not get the free sex offer as well.

I would happy to show some guys here around my area but I would refuse too become a show guide on demand its the way you contribute and ask helps. I spend 1000s on disappointing service from girls trying new places. I have spent a whole afternoons walking streets looking for new areas and found nothing its my hobby I could never hope to get the return on time and money. Some of the comments treat Dave (who I don't know)as a government tax and you notice its a lot of the good contributors that we all owe a great thanks too that support him. That says a lot is my option. Maybe its just the people who get everything for free airline tickets hotels meals on the company that complain maybe you could pay Dave more he can give invoices take american express and give frequent monger points. My advice is convert it to dollars and keep the moaning for the girls.

[Santa]

Fuck it! All this fucking flaming going on and nobody flames me. I need attention too you know! :mad:

[Weelock]

As this board knows, the Beijing faction always shows hospitality to senior contributors. And WE usually buy the drinks. Sammy tends to send mass messages to Mongolia and buys bottles.


Wow, great thks. In my opinion people should be very selective like OAH. There are a few weirdos, discontents, ass hole and egotistic people on this forum. This is even true for SOME of the seniors with significant contribution but the majority are fine. I have met some great guys but a few I don't trust after getting to know them.




Now, I am more selective who I help out on the ground. If it is a Senior Member who has RTFF, has made significant contributions to the forum in other areas and I feel he would reciprocate in his area of expertise, I am more than willing to assist. If it is a newbie that has not even RTFF, I will ignore his request.

Every member of this forum has a right to their opinion

[Zhuren]

Fuck it! All this fucking flaming going on and nobody flames me. I need attention too you know! :mad:

Santa, you Rudolph-fornicating dirty old man, go back to the fucking and freezing North Pole! And next time you come down the chimney, do it with Astro-Glide. Tong! Tong! Da ren!

So there.

[Santa]

Just to get it straight, for those of you who don't know I will tell it as it is.

I know both Joe and Dave.

Joe is not gaining $ from Dave's little tour guide business. Why? Because for him it is financially trivial. He does not need it! He promotes Dave just because he is trying to help a friend.

Dave is not so fortunate. He is trying to survive in a down market. So he tries to do a little of this and that to make a living. You can bet he ain't making much from this CP tour service. Pay him to show you around if you want to, if you have the time and would rather figure it out own, then that's fine. Nobody here gives a shit!

Every once in a while some business guy pays Dave a small amount of money to show him around, see that he has a good time, make reservations, gets invited to the ktv party, translates, avoids scams, makes a few business connections, etc. Money well spent! Then comes along some penny pinching monkeys from AC to make a big fucking deal out of it.

PS. Don't PM and ask me to show you around, for free or for money. Too many fucking weirdos and morons on this forum.

Please tell Santa to go fuck himself, I'm tired of nice people and their fucking milk and cookies!

[Santa]

Santa, you Rudolph-fornicating dirty old man, go back to the fucking and freezing North Pole! And next time you come down the chimney, do it with Astro-Glide. Tong! Tong! Da ren!

So there.

At least Rudolf doesn't complain "tong,tong"!

[SE Asia Joe]

I really mean it.

I owe EVERYBODY drinks now!!

I guess I should know better than to try to make sense with some of these guys who just are beyond........

But this is what really pisses me off - when guys like Web connect etc comes on and try to destroy the reputation that Dave works at so hard on.

I on purpose get myself straight in the firing line every time for I don't care/can afford to not care about whatever gets written on ISG etc. On the same token I have always advised Dave to NOT ever retort himself for as you can see, the percentages are just not there.

Oh well!! I'll just take the lumps. No big Deal!!

SEAJ

Ps. AND a special thanks to Warbucks and Zhuren - I know you guys thought that you'd just add a bit of merriment etc - but as you can see, it's brought the dregs out. So, a bit of restraint here - OK?? Thanks!!

[Donwon]

Maybe if someone else is willing to set up shop like BSD it will be good for all members. Then we as members or newbies get to choose or decide to go with which if we need such service for any renumeration. A little competition can be healthy. If you provide the service I am looking for and I feel it is fair you will get my repeat business. If I see that you are not trustworthy or full of shit then I go to the next one. I'm sure most of you are are intellligent enough to make the appropriate decisions. If I trust you I can also be your friend. If you don't want to be friends for whatever reasons that is OK too. To each his own. Just my POV.

PS. I asked this earlier but got no response. Any members know if Huimei still have a liveband. Thanks in advance in anticipation of a response from anyone.

[Dan Hawaii]

santa, you dirty ole man. when you going to be fucking again, in cp? i might be cumming on one of your girl helpers in january.

seaj, you got so much energy on this board, you the, you the man. i mean, how do you find the energy to make money? maybe one day we can work in hk together, might be spreading my seeds and moving over there, but it's in the works. should know by the end of this year.

dave, you are the man!!! and whoever says anything bad of his services does not know wtf they are talking about. so stfu, and stop crying. and good you not in dave's party mix, cause you just going to be a party pooper and you should gtfo, biatch.

oah, you know you like taking peeps on the chicken run, i think you get your jollys off that, and gives you a good excuse to check it out and partake yourself. and take the rookies to the catacombs, and say, "this is cp's finest, enjoy boys!" then ditch them and run away laughing and don't look back.

[Web Connect]

Miraton Hotel:
328 RMB weekdays
365 RMB weekends
Breakfast Buffet

Hui Hua Hotel:
329 RMB weekdays
358 RMB weekends
Breakfast Buffet

New Century Hotel:
298 RMB
Breakfast Buffet

Virgin Hotel:
238 RMB
No Breakfast Buffet

Clipper Hotel:
298 RMB
Breakfast Buffet

Swan Lake Hotel:
198 RMB
No Breakfast Buffet

I am just trying to update the current prices of hotel rooms.
Are these the correct prices ?

[SE Asia Joe]

santa, you dirty ole man. when you going to be fucking again, in cp? i might be cumming on one of your girl helpers in january.

seaj, you got so much energy on this board, you the, you the man. i mean, how do you find the energy to make money? maybe one day we can work in hk together, might be spreading my seeds and moving over there, but it's in the works. should know by the end of this year.

dave, you are the man!!! and whoever says anything bad of his services does not know wtf they are talking about. so stfu, and stop crying. and good you not in dave's party mix, cause you just going to be a party pooper and you should gtfo, biatch.

oah, you know you like taking peeps on the chicken run, i think you get your jollys off that, and gives you a good excuse to check it out and partake yourself. and take the rookies to the catacombs, and say, "this is cp's finest, enjoy boys!" then ditch them and run away laughing and don't look back.

hey dan:

yeah you're right. i oughta just leave all this posting etc to wankers like webbie and concentrate on the syt's instead.

all this posting, couldn't even see the humour in some of the drivel that this guy's posting!! i mean - how does one write a whole everything-you-need to-know guide on ktv going - when he got his ass thrown out by the rest of the guys - even before they had their first drink.... as he wasn't gonna pay his share of the bill!! lol!!

and rmb 50??? for that amount he'd do what???!! roflmao

or that he got all p.o.'d just coz wadman and i told him that we didn't think it a good idea to take pictures in cp? wot, he cain't make up his own mind as to what to do or not to do? tsk tsk tsk!

yeah - enuff from this character - time for me to get back up there and do what i'm better at doin'!!

toodle-loo!!

seaj

[Dan Hawaii]

Hey Dan:

Yeah you're right. I oughta just leave all this posting etc to wankers like Webbie and concentrate on the SYT's instead.

All this posting, couldn't even see the humour in some of the drivel that this guy's posting!! I mean - how does one write a whole everything-you-need to-know guide on KTV going - when he got his ass thrown out by the rest of the guys - even before they had their first drink.... as he wasn't gonna pay his share of the bill!! LOL!!

And RMB 50??? For that amount he'd do what???!! ROFLMAO

Or that he got all P.O.'d just coz Wadman and I told him that we didn't think it a good idea to take pictures in CP? Wot, he cain't make up his own mind as to what to do or not to do? Tsk Tsk Tsk!

Yeah - enuff from this character - time for me to get backup there and do what I'm better at doin'!!

Toodle-Loo!!

SEAJ
BSDave, he is a cool guy. Kind of feeling sorry for him, cause he is not making enough money to put up with all the bullshit on the board and on the ground. I would go out of my fucking mind. I don't know how he stays so sane. I think BSDave should take all the flaming as a blessing, write down the names of these guys and decline them as clients, 8 ball them all. I would hate to ktv party or hang out with these guys.

Three years ago, I told you to go to CP, and forget your sorry ass ex-gf. You remember?

[Zhuren]

So, a bit of restraint here - OK?? Thanks!!

Restraint? The only restraints I show are in a drawer next to my bed. Prime quality, padded leather. Not the cheap stuff.

[SE Asia Joe]

BSDave, he is a cool guy. Kind of feeling sorry for him, cause he is not making enough money to put up with all the bullshit on the board and on the ground. I would go out of my fucking mind. I don't know how he stays so sane. I think BSDave should take all the flaming as a blessing, write down the names of these guys and decline them as clients, 8 ball them all. I would hate to ktv party or hang out with these guys.

Three years ago, I told you to go to CP, and forget your sorry ass ex-gf. You remember?
Yowzer I remember. OAH was the instigator of all this... and Wadman - you're also responsible and you Santa, Weelock, Li'l Brucie, Jetset'r, F.Eddie, Pointypanic, Freeteats, AsnHoleDragon,RaceT....and of course - DAVE!!

You guys... you guys turned me from a God fearing Li'l Catholic into an immoral fornicating sinner....dealing even with the likes of Webbie...even replying to him ...whilst in the past ... in the past....I wouldn't even have acknowledged...

I am now truly lost and wallowing in the valley of the truly immoral.

Thanks Guys!!!

THANKS!!!
SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

Restraint? The only restraints I show are in a drawer next to my bed. Prime quality, padded leather. Not the cheap stuff.
What's wrong with the cheap stuff??

Slower Better gave me a pair and they work GREAT!!

All we need now is a "Dash" more and we'll get most of the dregs out!!

SEAJ

[SE Asia Joe]

Where's The Pussy??

Seaj

[Cavechu]

God fearing Li'l Catholic into an immoral fornicating sinner..

religion is over hyped with wired in 24/7 guilts...glad you broke free and spread your wings

[Bob Builder]

Are you wankers finished with using this place as a Fight Club?

I thought the rumour of a crackdown was over and you guys were partying. From what I hear a lot of regular Hong Kong mongers are a bit hesitate to return to CP so business in Sa Zui was booming last night. My crew didn't book a room and had to wait until 1am. So all you foreigners that don't believe there is a crackdown should have had the run of the place.

Dave's services are simply endorsed by the fact there are a lack of bad reports here by people that seem to have used him but I would not feel sorry for the guy as in any business its his decision whether it is viable or not?

I'm glad that some guys admit that they have met some dickheads that they have shown around from the forum. I have run into some losers that come with other friends that I monger with and am at still at loss why you would risk doing something as sensitive as mongering with someone that you know nothing about. Not worth the hassle IMHO but then again some of you guys met each other thru here.

I am surprised that Webconnect got away with the RMB50 episode as they might have thought roughing up a foriegner was too much hassle because I thought it would have just have been as easy to kick the guy's ass and take his money. And what the feck could he do? Make a report at the police station to cops who don't lift a finger to do anything they don't get paid for? And since he can't speak Chinese, all the BBS owner had to do was say to the Chinese customers that this guy fecked and did not want to pay. The truth does not matter. Most would be glad that foreigners are scared off so those tight little pussies are not stretched too much.

[SE Asia Joe]

Are you wankers finished with using this place as a Fight Club?

I thought the rumour of a crackdown was over and you guys were partying. From what I hear a lot of regular Hong Kong mongers are a bit hesitate to return to CP so business in Sa Zui was booming last night. My crew didn't book a room and had to wait until 1am.

Dave's services are simply endorsed by the fact there are a lack of bad reports here by people that seem to have used him but I would not feel sorry for the guy as in any business its his decision whether it is viable or not?

I'm glad that some guys admit that they have met some dickheads that they have shown around from the forum. I have run into some losers that come with other friends that I monger with and am at still at loss why you would risk mongering with someone that you know nothing about. Not worth the hassle but then again some of you guys met each other thru here.
Hope to God that we ARE through!! I know I is!!

And since Dave's out of town and I've had to stay in Hong Kong past few days PLUS all this going on at this board - there ain't nuthin' being written as to what the situation is up there these days.

So who's on the ground now? Want to report if the crack down is well and truly over or not? And Webbie - even if you are there - don't bother.

SEAJ

[Wadman]

Joe, let me set the record straight.



Dave was then left with very little to do and he started figuring out ways on how to survive until the time we can revive our project – and that was when he figured that he can do this tour guiding thing as a meanwhile – and bounced this idea off me.
...
Anyway, We then met up with Wadman and bounced Dave’s idea on him. We formally invited Wadman to join this venture as he had been trying to find something to do instead of just every day wasting his time. His vast knowledge, his residency in xxxx, China, his posting history here etc made him an ideal “partner” in this project for him to handle clients from and at where he lives. Wadman gave us wide ranging advise and actually formed the basis of a lot of what Dave is now doing.


You got this part right. You and Dave talked, I listened, and said no. Whether it was a "formal invitation" or not is a matter of opinion.

But I wouldn't say that it was my advice that formed the basis of Dave's business plan. The tour guide gig was Dave's idea, and he bounced it off you first. By the time you guys talked to me, I think the business plan was firmly in place, no?



But then he told us that he was NOT going to participate as he is already in talks with “another ISG long timer” (who I of course know is “long time monger in CP (LMCP)), and that he and LMCP want to set up their business by offering one-priced “Bespoke Package Deals” which includes different components i.e hotel, guiding services, KTV, sauna etc PLUS a nice hefty mark-up.


This is where you go completely off the rails.

I take it you are saying that "Long Time Monger in CP" = AG (Ace Gallant). Let's come out and say so.

AG and me have had discussions about providing services in CP/DG. But these were off the cuff discussions during foot massages and such. It's called smalltalk, chitchat, shooting the shit. Nothing has been done, and nothing is even in the planning stages. Or being planned. Is this clear enough? This kind of talk, of setting up a business to provide services for English speaking visitors to China, takes place among lots of long term residents in China. Anyway, I am not sure how you make a meal out of this.

FYI, I have also had fun chats with guys about starting an airport near CP, and flying guys in by jet.



And Wadman – yes I STILL consider him a friend and I AM still in touch with him to try to cool things down. I keep on asking him how is it that LMCP seems to have such a Svengali hold on him. And right now, I also still wonder how is it that LMCP’s got such energy and smarts to orchestrate all this from behind the scene.

I mean Wadman - and Horny Asian Dawg from the previous time that we had all this happening on this board (and who BTW is OK with me as we did talk and cleared things up) ARE good, sensible and smart individuals – for them to be “puppet-ed” to the point that they’re doing ALL the heavy lifting here??!!

And oh never mind about Webbie – but Warbucks!! You too?


Maybe you are seeing too many ghosts, Joe. Maybe it's not all AG. Maybe, just maybe, the rest of us have a mind of our own too.



Where’s the pussy??


Since this seems to absolve one of all sins, I will toe the company/party line:
Where's the pussy at?

[OldAsiaHand]

Yowzer I remember. OAH was the instigator of all this...

I am now truly lost and wallowing in the valley of the truly immoral.


SEAJ,

You try to help a guy out of the depths of feeling sorry for himself over lost love and this is what you get!

I assume total responsibility and am proud of it. :-)))))))))))))

Just my POV.

OAH

[SE Asia Joe]

Joe, let me set the record straight.
You got this part right. You and Dave talked, I listened, and said no. Whether it was a "formal invitation" or not is a matter of opinion.
But I wouldn't say that it was my advice that formed the basis of Dave's business plan. The tour guide gig was Dave's idea, and he bounced it off you first. By the time you guys talked to me, I think the business plan was firmly in place, no?
This is where you go completely off the rails.
I take it you are saying that "Long Time Monger in CP" = AG (Ace Gallant). Let's come out and say so.
AG and me have had discussions about providing services in CP/DG. But these were off the cuff discussions during foot massages and such. It's called smalltalk, chitchat, shooting the shit. Nothing has been done, and nothing is even in the planning stages. Or being planned. Is this clear enough? This kind of talk, of setting up a business to provide services for English speaking visitors to China, takes place among lots of long term residents in China. Anyway, I am not sure how you make a meal out of this.
FYI, I have also had fun chats with guys about starting an airport near CP, and flying guys in by jet.
Maybe you are seeing too many ghosts, Joe. Maybe it's not all AG. Maybe, just maybe, the rest of us have a mind of our own too.
Since this seems to absolve one of all sins, I will toe the company/party line:
Where's the pussy at?
Wadman - like I said, I still consider you a friend and as such I will NOT reply you or take your post apart etc. It's ok, don't worry about it.

I'm truly sick and tired of this subject and I AM QUITE SURE MOST OTHERS HERE ARE ALSO.

Where's the Pussy?

SEAJ

[OldAsiaHand]

As this board knows, the Beijing faction always shows hospitality to senior contributors. And WE usually buy the drinks. Sammy tends to send mass messages to Mongolia and buys bottles.

I can vouch for this from personal experience on many occasions.

OAH

P.S. It's about time I get up to Beijing to see my "favorite" Mongolian, especially if she is ready to be like your wife.

[OldAsiaHand]

oah, you know you like taking peeps on the chicken run, i think you get your jollys off that, and gives you a good excuse to check it out and partake yourself. and take the rookies to the catacombs, and say, "this is cp's finest, enjoy boys!" then ditch them and run away laughing and don't look back.

dan hawaii,

the above are my favorite words uttered in cp. i enjoy the shopping as much as the deed itself.

i did not ditch you cowards. i disappeared into one of the hovels for a st while you guys chickened out. :-))))))))))))))

just my pov.

oah

[OldAsiaHand]

Fuck it! All this fucking flaming going on and nobody flames me. I need attention too you know! :mad:

Santa,

Get off your ass and onto a plane so you can sort these wankers out.

Just my POV.

OAH

[OldAsiaHand]

Why is it that Long Time monger in CP is so against this - and indeed, he was also the guy that just about broke Dragon D in Shanghai in the past for offering paid guide services.
SEAJ

SEAJ,

Dragon D does offer mongering tours of Shanghai but part of what Dragon D does is different than Dave. He goes to a BBS and gets a girl for 200 RMB and delivers her to a BSD (no pun intended) for 800 RMB. IMHO, this is a pimp.

Just my POV.

OAH

[Web Connect]

All this posting, couldn't even see the humour in some of the drivel that this guy's posting! I mean. How does one write a whole everything-you-need to-know guide on KTV going. When he got his ass thrown out by the rest of the guys. Even before they had their first drink. As he wasn't going to pay his share of the bill! LOL!

And RMB 50? For that amount he'd do what?! ROFLMAOWhere are you getting your wrong info from? I never got thrown out of a KTV? If I did I am sure there would be a lot more to the story.

I paid my share (400 RMB), for the 2 drinks, 1 chicken wing and 5 peanuts all with in a half hour.

I was honest and upfront. I did'nt plan to pay any girls to sit with me, I wasn't going to split a bill at the end where all the other guys girls where drinking. So we agreed on my share, I paid, we shook hands and I left on my own accord.

If you were not there how could you know the story. Why don't you let those who were there comment.

Who is the moderator of this Dongguan forum anyway? A lot of my informative threads for newbies are not going through? May I ask why and if there is a problem, so I can edit them?

If you thought my opinion on KTVs was so bad why did you make it a ROD (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=959321&postcount=231) Some guys enjoy KTVs. Some don't. Everyone has their right to their own opinion.

[SE Asia Joe]

Dan Hawaii,

The above are my favorite words uttered in CP. I enjoy the shopping as much as the deed itself.

I did not ditch you cowards. I disappeared into one of the hovels for a ST while you guys chickened out. :-))))))))))))))

Just my POV.

OAH
And THIS..... is why you and Cronin are the ONE AND ONLY CP MASTER MONGERS!!

Unless there are other guys here who'd also admit that they had enough guts to have done a Catacombs gals. Superforce? Weelock? Santa? anybody??!!

SEAJ

[BruceTea]

FYI, I have also had fun chats with guys about starting an airport near CP, and flying guys in by jet.




I'd be happy with a 24 hour mini van service (like SkyLimo) where they pick up people from HK or HKIA and transport them to Tangxia, CA, CP, or wherever. You can get a private car within China, but crossing the border may be a bit tricky. And there's the Huanggang border checkpoint bordering SZ-HK that's open 24 hours.

Guys won't have have to stay overnight at CP, but do the stuff in 3 or 4 hours and be back to HK by 2 am.

And guys coming in from overseas late at night won't have to spend one night in HK or even SZ before continuing to CP.

[SE Asia Joe]

SEAJ,

You try to help a guy out of the depths of feeling sorry for himself over lost love and this is what you get!

I assume total responsibility and am proud of it. :-)))))))))))))

Just my POV.

OAH
Yes - you ARE responsible!

Now, what the hell (ooops, I mean "heck") do I do with all these other Li'l hunnies I've fallen head over heels with in CP? WHAT??!!

SEAJ.

[SE Asia Joe]

SEAJ,

Dragon D does offer mongering tours of Shanghai but part of what Dragon D does is different than Dave. He goes to a BBS and gets a girl for 200 RMB and delivers her to a BSD (no pun intended) for 800 RMB. IMHO, this is a pimp.

Just my POV.

OAH
Actually, I think that Shanghai is a lot easier place for a foreign monger to have a good time - even without a guide or anybody helping out.

English is, comparatively, in such wide spread usage that it shouldn't be much of a problem - even for a Non Chinese speaking monger.

I was at Zapatta one night and next to me were 6 gals - NOT working gals but regular gals working in offices - ALL foreigners. Out of the 6, only one was fluent in Chinese, one other half fluent and the other 4 totally non Chinese speaking.

And here they were, all working and living in Shanghai with no problems whatsoever!! Single gals!! Non Chinese speaking Gals!! GALS!!

SEAJ

[Web Connect]

Most would be glad that foreigners are scared off so those tight little pussies are not stretched too much.Yeah I also heard that is common reason why to scare off foreigners also.

(Please don't shoot the messenger )

[Dash]

Actually, I think that Shanghai is a lot easier place for a foreign monger to have a good time - even without a guide or anybody helping out.

English is, comparatively, in such wide spread usage that it shouldn't be much of a problem - even for a Non Chinese speaking monger.

I was at Zapatta one night and next to me were 6 gals - NOT working gals but regular gals working in offices - ALL foreigners. Out of the 6, only one was fluent in Chinese, one other half fluent and the other 4 totally non Chinese speaking.

And here they were, all working and living in Shanghai with no problems whatsoever!! Single gals!! Non Chinese speaking Gals!! GALS!!

SEAJ
But, were they HOT?

[Dash]

SEAJ,

Dragon D does offer mongering tours of Shanghai but part of what Dragon D does is different than Dave. He goes to a BBS and gets a girl for 200 RMB and delivers her to a BSD (no pun intended) for 800 RMB. IMHO, this is a pimp.

Just my POV.

OAH
IMHO nothing. That guy IS A PIMP. He's lower than a used condom.

[Bearsk]

and the next day she provided FS?

There may be a time of month, big dick in little chinese girl or you are hairy laowai issue.


The BJ was REALLY good. But I also expected FS.

I guess everyone has their own values.

[Bob Builder]

Where are you getting your wrong info from? I never got thrown out of a KTV? If I did I am sure there would be a lot more to the story.

I paid my share (400 RMB), for the 2 drinks, 1 chicken wing and 5 peanuts all with in a half hour.

I was honest and upfront. I did'nt plan to pay any girls to sit with me, I wasn't going to split a bill at the end where all the other guys girls where drinking. So we agreed on my share, I paid, we shook hands and I left on my own accord.

If you were not there how could you know the story. Why don't you let those who were there comment.

Who is the moderator of this Dongguan forum anyway? A lot of my informative threads for newbies are not going through? May I ask why and if there is a problem, so I can edit them?

If you thought my opinion on KTVs was so bad why did you make it a ROD (http://www.Internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=959321&postcount=231) Some guys enjoy KTVs. Some don't. Everyone has their right to their own opinion.

How did they calculate that you had to pay 400 for half an hour if that's all the time you were really there and consumed? How many guys were there in total to split the bill? That would be what I would expect to pay for a full night's KTV unless you were at a classier place or drinking whiskey / red wine. I would be interested in someone else reporting who "was actually there", not 2nd hand info or am I to assume there is another group of guys who used this forum to get info on how to go to CP and not bother to write a fecking report. For someone who stay for short time like that I actually know, I normally get them to contribute 100 - 200 but I don't know what you guys agreed or thought you agreed on beforehand.

[Bob Builder]

Yeah I also heard that is common reason why to scare off foreigners also.

(Please don't shoot the messenger )

From a purely business point of view, it would be a good decision to keep the Chinese mongers happy and ban foreigners.

Feck, they should post signs everywhere saying "No dogs or foreigners allowed" except for the catacombs of course.

[Member #4515]

[QUOTE=Web Connect]I was never kicked out of the KTV, I was'nt planning on paying for girls to sit with me and I did'nt think it was fair to split a bill to get all the other guys girls drunk. I paid up what we agreed was fair and I left on my on. There was'nt any prolem.

Wow. Than who going to pay for the girl who sat with you? You just leave?

And the girl sat with you that night get nothing and it is ok with her?

Please answer my question what is the end of the story?

Who pay for the girl who sit with you that night?

[Web Connect]

How did they calculate that you had to pay 400 for half an hour if that's all the time you were really there and consumed? How many guys were there in total to split the bill? That would be what I would expect to pay for a full night's KTV unless you were at a classier place or drinking whiskey / red wine. I would be interested in someone else reporting who "was actually there", not 2nd hand info or am I to assume there is another group of guys who used this forum to get info on how to go to CP and not bother to write a fecking report. For someone who stay for short time like that I actually know, I normally get them to contribute 100 - 200 but I don't know what you guys agreed or thought you agreed on beforehand.I am not concerned about the actual cost. I just wanted to state the facts.

I was invited by another ISG member to join them at a KTV, I accepted but shown up 2 hours late. ( I was so tired after a 18 hour flight )

There was 3 guys. We were drinking absolute and 7 up.

There was never a problem. We agreed I would pay for what I drank and ate and that was that. I paid, we shook hands, I went off to visit some BBSs. I did'nt skip out on my bill, I was never thrown out. I don't know where SE Asia Dave is getting his info from.

I already posted KTVs are not my thing but to each his own. SE Asia Dave seems to think if you don't like KTVs then you are not cool.

[Web Connect]

and the next day she provided FS?

There may be a time of month, big dick in little Chinese girl or you are hairy laowai issue.Yeah. She did'nt seem to have a problem at all.

She did'nt try to rush the service. We hung out in my room doing translations to each other on Google. She seemed to enjoy spending time together.

(Of course she may have got her ass beat by the Mommy for costing her 50 RMB)

No I am not hung like a horse and I am not hairy. (I shave to skin)

Like I said. I did'nt even know it was the same girl until I was looking at the pictures the next day. I think that was the funniest part.

[SE Asia Joe]

But, were they HOT?
Hey.... Sir Dash:

WELCOME! How ya doin' there guy?

What dregged you in here?

Was thinkin' that you were not gonna come back!

2 were hot, the other 4 were dogs.

SEAJ

[Fast Eddie 48]

Actually, I think that Shanghai is a lot easier place for a foreign monger to have a good time - even without a guide or anybody helping out.

English is, comparatively, in such wide spread usage that it shouldn't be much of a problem - even for a Non Chinese speaking monger.

I was at Zapatta one night and next to me were 6 gals - NOT working gals but regular gals working in offices - ALL foreigners. Out of the 6, only one was fluent in Chinese, one other half fluent and the other 4 totally non Chinese speaking.

And here they were, all working and living in Shanghai with no problems whatsoever!! Single gals!! Non Chinese speaking Gals!! GALS!!

SEAJSeaj,

Do you go to Zapatta on Thurday night that all you can eat taco night, yes some flipper there are pro working at office and call center in Shanghai some do moonlight for extra cash.

Fast Eddie 48

[Web Connect]

Wow. Than who going to pay for the girl who sat with you? You just leave?

And the girl sat with you that night get nothing and it is ok with her?

Please answer my question what is the end of the story?

Who pay for the girl who sit with you that night?There was no girls that sat with me.

I told my host as soon as I got there that I would NOT having any girls sit next to me.

The Mommy insisted they parade a few sets of girls in thinking they could change my mind. But looking at the girls in ski jackets wasn't doing it for me.

I went there to drink and chat with some of the guys. I did'nt think it was mandatory to pay a girl that does'nt speak any English to sit with me. I don't speak any Chinese. So what is the point? Even if I pay her to sit with me. There is no guarantee I am going to be boinking her.

I understand some guys enjoy KTVs. I don't. Some guys like trolling BBSs. Some guys don't.

There was no girls sitting with me for the whole half hour I was there. So there was no girl to pay. Does that answer your question?

[Santa]

Santa,

Get off your ass and onto a plane so you can sort these wankers out.

Just my POV.

OAH

Some of these fucking guys have the damned arrogance to come to this thread and accuse us and our friends of being liars and conmen. Telling us that our posts are fictitious "bullshit" so Joe and Dave can con them out of their fucking pennies. Unfucking believable!

Sorry my friends, problems at home. But you see what happens in CP when I'm away!

[Dan Hawaii]

Dan Hawaii,

The above are my favorite words uttered in CP. I enjoy the shopping as much as the deed itself.

I did not ditch you cowards. I disappeared into one of the hovels for a ST while you guys chickened out. :-))))))))))))))

Just my POV.

OAH
I'm not saying "you" ditched "me". I stayed with you till the bitter end, on that last catacomb run. I remember the girls were pouncing and jumping on your ass. It was like shock and awe to me. hahaha. I was implying that you take rookies (in the future) to the catacombs and ditch them. And take cool dudes to the real BBS.

Where's Carl? Tell that cool dude to PM me.

And where's the sexy, virgin, pink pussy at?

[Dan Hawaii]

Yes - you ARE responsible!

Now, what the hell (ooops, I mean "heck") do I do with all these other Li'l hunnies I've fallen head over heels with in CP? WHAT??!!

SEAJ.
Buy them cell phones, as usual. Nokia, the preffered brand. :)

[Pig Fat]

"Nokia: The brand more Working Girls use."

I should have been in advertising...

[Roni44]

Some of these fucking guys have the damned arrogance to come to this thread and accuse us and our friends of being liars and conmen. Telling us that our posts are fictitious "bullshit" so Joe and Dave can con them out of their fucking pennies. Unfucking believable!

Sorry my friends, problems at home. But you see what happens in CP when I'm away!

Well said Santa, even I don't know you guys personally, I really appreciate what BSD is trying to do.

roni44

[Hungryguy]

Some of these fucking guys have the damned arrogance to come to this thread and accuse us and our friends of being liars and conmen. Telling us that our posts are fictitious "bullshit" so Joe and Dave can con them out of their fucking pennies. Unfucking believable!

Sorry my friends, problems at home. But you see what happens in CP when I'm away!In any businesses, it is the repeat customers that demonstrate the values that the businesses gives to its customers who later can progress to friendship.

I am going to CP again and I am asking for BSD to book and arrange things for me again. Need I say more? Am I newbie? (I start going to China in 2000)

Hungry

[One Eyed Man]

SE Asia Dave seems to think if you don't like KTVs then you are not cool.

Your attempt at humor missed the mark. I think it's really obnoxious to attack people on the forum that seem to be universally liked, a category that excluded you. I have only met Dave, willingly paid his fees and do not begrudge him any well-earned kickbacks, and he is a pleasant, likable guy. I have only exchanged PMs with SEA Joe, so I cannot say he is a different person, though his writing style is clearly different from Dave's. What's really troubling is that you appear to have sided with the conspiracy theorists here, which has subsequently become clear that a disgruntled would-be competitor has spread innuendo and untruths in order to harm Dave's business. Please lay off. Even more sadly, since you don't speak Chinese and didn't take any girls, you completely missed out on what a fun experience a KTV evening can be.

[Donwon]

It appears too much pussy is messing some of you up. Time to take a break from the CP community. There's 24 hours in a day and it's a big world out there folks. Try something different. Perhaps head out to one of those communal hot springs that they have in Chungsan and chill out. Hold on to each others dicks and make peace.

[Wapec]

Off yer ass and onto a plane ! What do you mean when you're away ? You mean when I am away ! Unfucking believeable ..... been a drought in my neck of the woods.


Some of these fucking guys have the damned arrogance to come to this thread and accuse us and our friends of being liars and conmen. Telling us that our posts are fictitious "bullshit" so Joe and Dave can con them out of their fucking pennies. Unfucking believable!

Sorry my friends, problems at home. But you see what happens in CP when I'm away!

[Wapec]

OAH / SEAJ

Still ain't got my wings. And I'm proud of it or am I?

Wapec


And THIS..... is why you and Cronin are the ONE AND ONLY CP MASTER MONGERS!!

Unless there are other guys here who'd also admit that they had enough guts to have done a Catacombs gals. Superforce? Weelock? Santa? anybody??!!

SEAJ

[Web Connect]

Your attempt at humor missed the mark. I think it's really obnoxious to attack people on the forum that seem to be universally liked, a category that excluded you. I have only met Dave, willingly paid his fees and do not begrudge him any well-earned kickbacks, and he is a pleasant, likable guy. I have only exchanged PMs with SEA Joe, so I cannot say he is a different person, though his writing style is clearly different from Dave's. What's really troubling is that you appear to have sided with the conspiracy theorists here, which has subsequently become clear that a disgruntled would-be competitor has spread innuendo and untruths in order to harm Dave's business. Please lay off. Even more sadly, since you don't speak Chinese and didn't take any girls, you completely missed out on what a fun experience a KTV evening can be.I am sorry, I apologize, I meant to post SA Asia Joe.

I have exchanged PMs with BS Dave and I agree he does seem like a upstanding member of the ISG Changping Community and providing a good service.

I have met a few characters in CP since I have been here and some of them only have their own interest at heart.

I agree speaking Chinese would make the KTV ( China in General ) experience so much better, but I have been to KTVs in other countries where the girls speak English and I still don't enjoy them. Maybe it has something to do with the awful singing. I don't think the girls are any better looking or classy than a girl from a BBS.

Please explain why KTV's are fun. I already posted my view of them. Lets read yours. Maybe your post can be useful to the community and be nominated for a RoD.

[Dan Hawaii]

"Nokia: The brand more Working Girls use."

I should have been in advertising...
How can you tell if a working girl is successful???

By her cell phone. ;)

[Fast Eddie 48]

OAH / SEAJ

Still ain't got my wings. And I'm proud of it or am I?

WapecTo wapec,

You and me both have standard we can only go so low, this is one thing in life we don't care to try.

Fast Eddie 48

[Web Connect]

How can you tell if a working girl is successful???

By her cell phone. ;)Which these days from what I have seen around seems the iPhone if the Trophy phone.

[Roni44]

I am sorry, I apologize, I meant to post SA Asia Joe.

I have exchanged PMs with BS Dave and I agree he does seem like a upstanding member of the ISG Changping Community and providing a good service.

I have met a few characters in CP since I have been here and some of them only have their own interest at heart.

I agree speaking Chinese would make the KTV ( China in General ) experience so much better, but I have been to KTVs in other countries where the girls speak English and I still don't enjoy them. Maybe it has something to do with the awful singing. I don't think the girls are any better looking or classy than a girl from a BBS.

Please explain why KTV's are fun. I already posted my view of them. Lets read yours. Maybe your post can be useful to the community and be nominated for a RoD.

Hey Web Connect, I think the whole experience of KTV is all about the crowd you go with, I almost always have great time partying at KTV, with my buddies and good friends even some clients. Quite often, the party gets out the hand and I had to tone it down a bit. Just imagine partying at frat back in the college years and for sure you are gonna get some. Maybe you not into the whole party thing, but to many others I known of, it's great way to get the night start and end with great bang (most of time). I truely hope you can exprience what CP has to offer, not only from BBS, also KTV and sauna, if I'm ever in CP for sure let's hook up and do some damage.

[One Eyed Man]

I am sorry, I apologize, I meant to post SA Asia Joe.

I don't know if "SA Asia Joe" is a typo or another slam, but I'll leave it alone. I did post a report on CP a while ago, but I didn't take elaborate on the KTV experience. Although "karaoke" is something that is avoided like the plague by straight males in the US, in China it's kinda fun.

First of all, it's just fun to pick a couple of cute 20-somethings and hang out with them all evening long. They hold your hand, stroke your thigh, refill your glass, let you play a little grab-ass, and generally make an effort to have a good time. I'm not stupid or naive enough to think they really like me, but it's fun nonetheless, in a goofy kind of way. Most of these girls are fresh of the farm and probably haven't seen a foreigner before, and as I said likely to be much younger (like half my age), so it's hard to have an intellectual conversation with them, but they're fun-loving gals. It's their job to have fun and show you a good time, and they want to be picked to go home with you, so they can make more money to send home to their family (usually to finance a younger brother's education.) In some of the KTVs, the girls strip at the end of the evening, which lets you inspect the "merchandise."

You also play drinking games, which are largely designed to get the girls tipsy, since they're unlikely to be geniuses. You also drink quite a bit yourself and loosen up. In the process, you get to know the girls' personalities so you can pick one to take home with you. There's not much to do in CP other than mongering, so it helps to fill up your evenings or downtime between lays.

I hate to sound sentimental, but many of the Chinese songs are quite beautiful with complicated melodies, and many of the girls can really belt out a tune. English tunes are few and far between, but learning Chinese songs is a good way to improve your Mandarin.

I also have to mention the other mongers you meet. It's generally a friendly group of guys, and some of them can turn out to be good business contacts, believe it or not. There's a real camaraderie there.

In summary, KTVs are a fun way to spend an evening in the company of attractive young women that ordinarily might not give you the time of day, drinking and singing, and screening the girls for a more girlfriend-like night together.

P.S. I was impressed by your guts in standing up to those thugs in the report you posted. At present, I don't know how to tell if you have an straight-up mamasan or one that is going to lead you to a mugging.

[BruceTea]

I agree speaking Chinese would make the KTV ( China in General ) experience so much better, but I have been to KTVs in other countries where the girls speak English and I still don't enjoy them. Maybe it has something to do with the awful singing. I don't think the girls are any better looking or classy than a girl from a BBS.
.


I've been to KTVs where guys speak almost no Chinese and still had fun.
(1) Play games. Ask them to teach you simple dice games. Otherwise, rocks-paper-scissors would suffice.
(2) Hug her while watching the music videos (and singing). You're set if she's a snuggler.
(3) Chat with other guys who most likely know English. More guys, more "communications" and that'll get the girls into it.
(4) Ask the mommies which girls know some English. There are some and their understanding of English is quite passable.

Awful singing, yeah...haha. Some guys bring his own iPod and play his own music. No singing allowed the whole night. Just guys hanging out and enjoying the females. Or tell DJ no singing and just put on the music videos with volume down.

Agree with you that KTV, BBS, Sauna girls are pretty much on the same level. If you have a type that fancies you, you'll be able to find that type in any of the 3 venues. KTVs just happen to be more expensive due to the environment, the drinking, and the private room.

Many other countries have oh-so-classy gals only in KTVs. That's why they're priced so high. In CP, perhaps not since the girls are so young and many are not that educated. But I'm sure there are classy and intelligent gals who are WGs and I would imagine they're smart enough to work in KTVs instead of Saunas or BBSs. But that's debatable, so that's just IMHO.

[Bob Builder]

I've been to KTVs where guys speak almost no Chinese and still had fun.
(1) Play games. Ask them to teach you simple dice games. Otherwise, rocks-paper-scissors would suffice.
(2) Hug her while watching the music videos (and singing). You're set if she's a snuggler.
(3) Chat with other guys who most likely know English. More guys, more "communications" and that'll get the girls into it.
(4) Ask the mommies which girls know some English. There are some and their understanding of English is quite passable.

Awful singing, yeah...haha. Some guys bring his own iPod and play his own music. No singing allowed the whole night. Just guys hanging out and enjoying the females. Or tell DJ no singing and just put on the music videos with volume down.

Agree with you that KTV, BBS, Sauna girls are pretty much on the same level. If you have a type that fancies you, you'll be able to find that type in any of the 3 venues. KTVs just happen to be more expensive due to the environment, the drinking, and the private room.

Many other countries have oh-so-classy gals only in KTVs. That's why they're priced so high. In CP, perhaps not since the girls are so young and many are not that educated. But I'm sure there are classy and intelligent gals who are WGs and I would imagine they're smart enough to work in KTVs instead of Saunas or BBSs. But that's debatable, so that's just IMHO.

If you are just a shagger, don't drink and don't want to hang out with other guys, then KTV is not for you.

If a gal doesn't mind how many times she is dicked in a day she could make more money at a BBS and some gals don't want to work in a KTV as they don't want to drink. There are also a lot more rules in a KTV which gals can get fined for.

[Santa]

OAH and the legendary Cronin dragged me and Cappy to the dark and dingy Catacombs. Afraid that we might be classified as newbie whimps we both proudly did the deed and earned our wings. For me, one dive was enough!

Then OAH cursed me out for paying 20 rmb too much. I didn't have 30 rmb in change, so i had to give her a 50.

Wapec and SEA Joe, it's your turn! No wings = no respect!

[Web Connect]

I don't know if "SA Asia Joe" is a typo or another slam, but I'll leave it alone. It was a typo... I ment SE ( sorry for that ). To be honest I could'nt even think of something to make from SA to be a slam. I am wondering what the SE stands for in his Nick. , I would guess it stands for South East. China is not considered South East Asia. So having that in a nick I would guess means you are someone who knows or travels around South East Asia.

Anyway.. I am not here to slam Joe or Dave. I am here just to share info with other like minded people. Share some stories and pictures.

I understand some people enjoy KTVs. I could see it being more fun having a room full of people that you enjoy partying with. No singing unless the person is a really good singer. But for some reason when I do drink, I like to drink in bars. I think I would even enjoy more just watching the show at the KTVs. I just like to sit there, drink and watch. Maybe that is why I like strip clubs better, so I can just sit there and watch. I really don't want to be part of the show.

[Moody]

IMHO, the problem is that some guys, me included, do what Dave does for free. For example, I used to book hotels pro bono for mongers that sent me a PM. I started getting so many PMs that I felt like an unpaid travel agent. If I was around, I would show them the ropes for free. I reckon that some of the guys that do it for free resent the fact that Dave is making money doing the same thing.



I don't think I've ever met Dave, but I don't resent anybody trying to make a buck. That said, I was one of the lucky beneficiaries of OAH's generosity with his time, and this was wayyyyyyyyyy back. Hell, I don't even remember anymore how long I've known OAH.

Lately, I'm not in China as much, but when I'm around, I try to help out folks, but like OAH, I tend to be selective. Before when I was posting a lot, I used to get a lot of PMs, but after a while, it was a getting a bit weird. Constant PMs asking where guys can find the cheapest lay, asking for phone numbers of specific girls, etc., etc. I think if Dave is willing to constantly deal with those kinds of requests, hey, he SHOULD get paid.

[Fast Eddie 48]

It was a typo... I ment SE ( sorry for that ). To be honest I could'nt even think of something to make from SA to be a slam. I am wondering what the SE stands for in his Nick. , I would guess it stands for South East. China is not considered South East Asia. So having that in a nick I would guess means you are someone who knows or travels around South East Asia.

Anyway.. I am not here to slam Joe or Dave. I am here just to share info with other like minded people. Share some stories and pictures.

I understand some people enjoy KTVs. I could see it being more fun having a room full of people that you enjoy partying with. No singing unless the person is a really good singer. But for some reason when I do drink, I like to drink in bars. I think I would even enjoy more just watching the show at the KTVs. I just like to sit there, drink and watch. Maybe that is why I like strip clubs better, so I can just sit there and watch. I really don't want to be part of the show.Web,

I don't go to KTV much because I don't drink, most of the time that go with friend or customer is for business not for the girl, I enjoy sauna more myself is more relaxing for me, but if you go you should paid for your share even if you don't drink like a fish like other, if you don't want to paid next time just don't go no one put a gun in your head.

Fast Eddie 48

[Web Connect]

Before when I was posting a lot, I used to get a lot of PMs, but after a while, it was a getting a bit weird. Constant PMs asking where guys can find the cheapest lay, asking for phone numbers of specific girls, etc., etc.That is EXACTLY what I was talking about.

In the recent months all the posts have been about how to spend the most expense way to find the most expensive lays (KTVs). There is almost no posts on info and directions to the BBSs. (cheapest lays).

All the recent posts seems to be for the BSDs. There has been posts recently about the catacombs. But no directions or info about them. So what is a member suppose to do? PM the original poster? And if the person asking does'nt have a huge post count, the member snubs him.

If you are going to post about a place. Why don't you attach a business card and map with directions so other members can print out the information to show a taxi driver.

I think it is a good idea to give the girls phone or QQ number to other members. It helps the members and it helps the girls make more money.

Not alot of the local info is posted in the public forums. It seems that recently the only way to find a place is to PM a member. Or in some cases pay for a guide.

[Santa]

OK. Glad to see the arguments are over.




Anyway.. I am not here to slam Joe or Dave. I am here just to share info with other like minded people. .

[Web Connect]

Directions to the Yalan BBSs

To get to the Yalan BBSs from the Miraton, Hui Hau and New Century, it is best to take a taxi if it is your first time. It is possible to walk but took me 25- 30 mins. So print out the map and directions to the Silver Star Hotel and show it to the taxi driver. Should cost 7 - 10 RMB for a taxi.

To get to the Yalan BBSs from The Clipper Hotel or Swan Lake hotel, make a left of of the lobbies, walk up to the main road and make a right. Walk 5 - 10 minutes until you come to the Y-Hotel ( now a Clipper hotel also ).

There are runners there that will show you the way from there. Most have business cards with their numbers on them. There are girls in the Y-Hotel but you want to cross the main road across from the Y-Hotel towards the Yinxing Hotel / Silver Star Hotel.

There will be runners that will show you to some of the rooms in the Silver Star KTV, in back of the Yinxing Hotel and across the street to the left of some old houses.

I went from 3:00 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. I brought all the girls back to my hotel room for a ST. Cost I paid was 50 - 100 RMB to the BBS and 100 RMB to the girl after the deed is done.

I don't speak a word of Chinese, I did not have a guide. I did not feel in danger.

I am a newbie in Changping so if any more experienced mongers would like to add to this please do. Please do NOT post any scare stories. Save that for you Mommy.

Please just post directions and facts.

Changping Hotels (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=958860&postcount=2073)

[Santa]

I am a newbie in Changping so if any more experienced mongers would like to add to this please do. Please do NOT post any scare stories. Save that for you Mommy.

Please just post directions and facts.

]

FACTS!!!

Looks like you are not backing down and we are back to this friggin' argument again.

Some guys have been steered by "mommies" to vacant rooms where they have been beaten and robbed. A gang of guys take everything you have and demand the keycard to your room, safebox code and pin numbers for your cards. They let you go after they have drained your account.

It happened to me many years ago when I was a newbie in Shenzhen. Two young ladies steered me to an apartment where i was robbed.

It is safer to only follow a mommy that you know and only when you know where you are going. Use caution and courtesy!

[Web Connect]

FACTS!

It happened to me many years ago when I was a newbie in Shenzhen. Two young ladies steered me to an apartment where I was robbed.

It is safer to only follow a mommy that you know and only when you know where you are going.Can you link your post about your experience in Shezhen. I couldn't find it. Did anything similar happen to you in CP?

If you are newbie, most likely you won't know a mommy or know where you are going if it is your first time in CP.

Did you find my information and directions to the Yalan BBSs accurate or do you have something to add or amend?

[Weelock]

I don't speak a word of Chinese, I did not have a guide. I did not feel in danger.

I am a newbie in Changping so if any more experienced mongers would like to add to this please do. Please do NOT post any scare stories. Save that for you Mommy.

This guy thinks there is a conspiracy by the seniors. He thinks all reports of crime, raids and scams are made up, lies. Then getting around without any help and without any language skills the first time is easy. IMHO, it is possible getting around China the first time, but extremely frustrating even with doing your homework. He is a newbie to CP but not a newbie to China. he has been to China, HK and Macau several times.

Somebody should take him to the Catacombs where it's safe, clean, cheap and leave him there. The girls there are very clean hygienically and the catacombs is extremely low for STD. He is asking for cheap girls. Well, it's 30RMB for a girl. People there will love you for taking candid street pictures late at night. Try taking a few hundred pictures there. Compared to Swan Lake area and the Miraton / Lucky area, it's a million times safer. Once you walk in the area, there are guys watching you, making you feel very safe.

Oh, if anyone have any problems with these girls like only giving you a BJ, it ok just to pay her 15 RMB or even less. It's easy to get away with it, and cheat these girls of such a small amount.

His story about what happen in the KTV and the other member is different, why.

[One Eyed Man]

There are runners there that will show you the way from there. Most have business cards with their numbers on them. There are girls in the Y-Hotel but you want to cross the main road across from the Y-Hotel towards the Yinxing Hotel / Silver Star Hotel.

There will be runners that will show you to some of the rooms in the Silver Star KTV, in back of the Yinxing Hotel and across the street to the left of some old houses.

[...]

I don't speak a word of Chinese, I did not have a guide. I did not feel in danger.

I am a newbie in Changping so if any more experienced mongers would like to add to this please do. Please do NOT post any scare stories. Save that for you Mommy.

I'm sure you've read the stories about people taken to empty apartments and being beaten, threatened, and robbed. Maybe you believe them, maybe you don't. Frankly, they scare the hell out of me.

How do you know that these runners you meet are legit? If they have cell phones and business cards, that is a good sign, but I'm sure the crooks and thugs are capable of faking these if that's what they need to do. Doing your business in KTV rooms seems safe, but I don't really know...

My gut feeling is that you have been extremely lucky so far in escaping danger. Maybe you have a sixth sense in identifying potential criminals. The other week, I was walking down the street with BSDave (he warned me that the area around the Miraton had a lot of pickpockets, and sure enough, a guy here wrote that his wallet got taken), when he pointed out three guys that he said were looking for trouble. I had no idea. They weren't big guys, but then when three or more gang up on you, they can have the advantage.

So far, I've only done KTVs in CP. When I get ready to hit some BBSes, I will turn to someone experienced who can introduce me to trusted mamasans, so I don't get into trouble. I'd urge you to do the same. Even though you have rubbed a lot of people here the wrong way, and it would teach you a lesson, I really don't want you to go through that kind of hell.

[BruceTea]

Please just post directions and facts.




From OAH on 9-29-06



Cross the street to the Rainbow Department Store, McDonalds is at street level in this building with parking out front. There is a road between this building and the Water Hotel. Go up this road as far as you can until you hit a small park. Turn right and walk past the public swimming pool on your right. You will see a small shop with some pool tables out front. Turn left and the girls are in all the hutongs (alleys) in this area.

[Web Connect]

He is a newbie to CP but not a newbie to China. he has been to China, HK and Macau several times.

Somebody should take him to the Catacombs where it's safe, clean, cheap and leave him there. The girls there are very clean hygienically. The catacombs is extremely low for STD. He is asking for cheap girls. Well, it's 30RMB for a girl. People there will love you for taking pictures at night. Try taking a few hundred pictures there. Compared to Swan Lake area and the Miraton / Lucky area, it's a million times safer.

His story about what happen in the KTV and the other member is different, why.Yes I have been to Shezhen, HK, and Macau. I have been to a lot other places like Brazil, Panama, Mexico, Philippines, Thailand, Cambodia, for example but I haven't posted about them yet. The places I visited so far in CP was not anywhere close to being a 3rd world city. I found CP to be very modern and safe. That is my own opinion, you may have a different opinion.

I don't need someone to take me to the Catacombs and hold my hand, why don't you just post the directions with a map with some landmarks. It will help out the newbies.

[Bob Builder]

I assume everyone here knows which path suits them.

Webconnect has stated he is not scared of the dangers reported here and is not willing to give up any of his hard earned cash to the point if it comes to a fight he is going to take on the thugs or die trying. I have not misquoted have I? He can do that if he wants, you do not have to do it his way.

When does it ever hurt to tell people to be careful and warn them of potential dangers?

As far as his comments regarding BBS vs KTV, when the fuck did ISG become the budget guide to mongering and a competition about how cheap you can get laid? There is a cheapskates section here.

If you don't like the reports from the people that actually go to CP and report on what they do, go ***** to your mommy about it.

And RTFF for directions to the BBS or do you want someone to post GPS coordinates? Others have found the places without any problem and if in doubt follow the 1000s of Hong Kong guys going there for gals. You are not looking for Osama.

[Web Connect]

How do you know that these runners you meet are legit?

My gut feeling is that you have been extremely lucky so far in escaping danger.

Maybe you have a sixth sense in identifying potential criminals.

So far, I've only done KTVs in CP. When I get ready to hit some BBSes, I will turn to someone experienced who can introduce me to trusted mamasans, so I don't get into trouble. Thanks for the kind words, I understand the possible dangers that could happen when doing something illegal. But I already made the decision on doing it and will continue to do so.

This is a dangerous game some of us play. For sure those of us that decide to be involved with it, have chosen to live our livies outside the law.

Yes I have met a lot of criminals in my life. So maybe it is easier to identify them. There are many characters that are willing to take advantage of you, if you are willing to let them. I don't know these runners the same way they don't know me.

You will know when you are ready for the BBS scene, it is as fun as buying drugs and guns. :)

[Moody]

There are 2 types of people in the world. Those who like KTV, and those who don't. It's no big deal, and trying to convince one group of the error of their ways is just a waste of time.

It basically boils down to this. The guys who don't like it don't see the point in drinking, singing, dancing, playing drinking games when the goal is to get laid. To them, it's just a waste of money.

To the guys who like it, the KTV thing is the goal. They don't really care if they do the girl they're with at the KTV. They just like the drinking and the atmosphere.

That's the thing. A lot of guys who go to KTV regularly don't even take the girls back, because getting laid isn't what it's about, because certainly, if that's all you want, there are much cheaper venues available.

BTW, there's no rule saying you HAVE TO sing at a KTV. If you don't like the singing, go with a bunch of like minded folks. Then you can sit around and play drinking games all night, which is what a lot of my friends do.

Then there's SEAJ who is the exception who proves the rule. He doesn't drink, but he likes KTV anyway.

[Moody]

there has been posts recently about the catacombs. but no directions or info about them. so what is a member suppose to do? pm the original poster? and if the person asking does'nt have a huge post count, the member snubs him.

you wouldn't really want to go there. it's pretty gross. unless you're into the smell of toilets, you won't enjoy it. i know where it is, but it's kind of hard to describe because it's out in the middle of nowhere and i don't know the name of the road.

honestly though, who da fuck comes all the way to china to find a 30rmb lay? that's like going to ruth's chris and asking for a hamburger. i can understand if a guy has fetish for the scent of [CodeWord113] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord113) and [CodeWord109] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord109) and sheets stained with other guys' cum, but really.... unless you're into that, it's gross.

here's something else too. at most parks, you can probably find freelance girls who will fuck for 50rmb, but that was a while back, it might be closer to 100rmb now. this is what a lot of locals do. the catch though, is you have to do it in the park. again, some people are into this, and they'll actually go out and do it. most people though, would rather do it in a room, and therefore are going to have to pay more.

as for snubbing pms. actually, i don't go by post count whether i answer them, hell i don't even look. i answer them according to whether the question/request is lame or not and most questions asking "where's the cheapest fuck?" are pretty lame. questions for individual phone numbers are also pretty lame. i mean come on, 600 million girls in the country and a dude wants to fine a needle in a haystack. also contrary to popular belief, girls don't really like you giving out their phone number to people they don't know, especially laowai. not to mention, girls are constantly changing their phone numbers anyway.

[Moody]

How do you know that these runners you meet are legit? If they have cell phones and business cards, that is a good sign, but I'm sure the crooks and thugs are capable of faking these if that's what they need to do. Doing your business in KTV rooms seems safe, but I don't really know...

Here's a pretty simple way to tell if a runner is legit. Wait until you see other people follow them. If you see a group of HK or Taiwanese guys following a runner, it's a pretty good sign it's legit. I would think the criminal element would prefer to get a guy alone by himself, rather than a whole group which would be much more difficult to manage.

As for doing your business in the KTV room. I really hope you're not suggesting screwing the girl in the KTV room. That's a big frowned up no-no unless it's a place that's made for that.

[Weelock]

-cut-
I don't need someone to take me to the Catacombs and hold my hand, why don't you just post the directions with a map with some landmarks. It will help out the newbies.

Bruce Tea just posted directions from OAH. Please take several hundred candid late night pictures of the place and especially the working ladies. Then post a few of them on ISG. It's very safe because there are guys watching you once you arrive and leave. At the Catacombs, you will find some of the most romantic, ideal conditions for making love. There is NO air-conditioning during summer and NO heat during the winter. Best, yet rats or mice might be running around, a hut and a straw mat will do.

For someone who can afford to traveled around world and stay at high end 5 star hotels, I can believe someone will want the low end stuff. Now, you are looking for 3rd world conditions for mongering. In some of these places how they wash themselves are with a cold bucket of water and they pour it over their heads.

Oh, if anyone have any problems with these girls like only giving you a BJ, it ok just to pay her 15 RMB or even less. It's easy to get away with it, and to cheat these girls of such a small amount of money. :) or better yet just walk out and not pay.

I also noticed your posts are late or delayed about 8 hours.

For some of your hotels on your list, there are NOT 5 stars. They claim to be 5 stars but more like one star lower. The new hotel EurAsian and the Garden are 5 star hotels, this is just my opinion.

[SE Asia Joe]

Been on the ground past couple days and everything seems normal albeit I didn't go KTV'ing myself.

BBS's are well stocked, saunas are welcoming punters the usual way and the general atmosphere has improved markedly.

IMHO

SEAJ

[One Eyed Man]

As for doing your business in the KTV room. I really hope you're not suggesting screwing the girl in the KTV room. That's a big frowned up no-no unless it's a place that's made for that.

Noooo!!! I wasn't suggesting doing anything naughty in a KTV room (other than a little grab-ass as often as I can), but I was referring to something Web Connect wrote:


There will be runners that will show you to some of the rooms in the Silver Star KTV

... but now it's clear I didn't really know what I was talking about.

[Web Connect]

Tea just posted directions from OAH on 9-29-06

This is exactly what I am talking about, no one was able to update a report from 3 years ago with some maps ? ? ?

With respect to OAH I would like to add a map and a few other directions.


Cross the street to the Rainbow Department Store, McDonalds is at street level in this building with parking out front. There is a road between this building and the Water Hotel. Go up this road as far as you can until you hit a small park. Turn right and walk past the public swimming pool on your right. You will see a small shop with some pool tables out front. Turn left and the girls are in all the hutongs (alleys) in this area.If you are staying at the Miraton Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125885) or Hui Hau Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125886) You will walk out the lobby and cross the street to the Rainbow shopping center with the Mc Donalds OAH mentioned.

If you are staying at the New Century Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=125887) you will walk out of the lobby and make a left to cross the street to the Walter Hotel OAH mentioned.

If you are staying at The Clipper Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126233) or Swan Lake Hotel (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126232), show the taxi driver the map and directions to the Walter Hotel I uploaded. Taxi should cost 7 RMB - 10 RMB.

As suggested by Bob Builder the GPS coordinates are:
22° 58' 09. 61 N
113° 59' 42. 68 E

I attached a map and directions to the Walter Hotel, Picture of the Rainbow Shopping Center and a Earth Map with landmarks.

Honestly I did'nt RRTF 3 years back before I went to CP, but on my next trip I will definitely be visiting the Catacombs. It is reported by other members if you RTTF, You can pay 30 RMB for a girl or even 15 RMB or even less for a BJ ( YMMV ). I will try to take some pictures on my next trip depending on lighting conditions, the good thing is technology is getting better and better everyday so it is easier to use night vision.

I am a newbie in Changping so if any more experienced mongers would like to add to this please do. Please do NOT post any scare stories. Save that for you Mommy. Please just post directions and facts.

[Web Connect]

There are 2 types of people in the world. Those who like KTV, and those who don't. It's no big deal, and trying to convince one group of the error of their ways is just a waste of time.

It basically boils down to this. The guys who don't like it don't see the point in drinking, singing, dancing, playing drinking games when the goal is to get laid. To them, it's just a waste of money.

To the guys who like it, the KTV thing is the goal. They don't really care if they do the girl they're with at the KTV. They just like the drinking and the atmosphere.

That's the thing. A lot of guys who go to KTV regularly don't even take the girls back, because getting laid isn't what it's about, because certainly, if that's all you want, there are much cheaper venues available.

BTW, there's no rule saying you HAVE TO sing at a KTV. If you don't like the singing, go with a bunch of like minded folks. Then you can sit around and play drinking games all night, which is what a lot of my friends do.

Then there's SEAJ who is the exception who proves the rule. He doesn't drink, but he likes KTV anyway.Exactly. For some guys the time they spend at the KTV is their foreplay.

For other guys it is walking around getting fresh air, going in and out of alleys to find the BBS is the foreplay. There is a real adrenaline rush when you are walking down a dark alley following a total stranger behind a steel door or going up a dark set of stairs.

I can walk around for hours just looking with out making a final decision on which girl I will choose. Sometimes after a few hours I may go back to a BBS to get a girl that I seen and stuck in my head only to find out she is gone. I am not mad, it is all part of the game. I find it fun, other guys may hate it and be frustrated.

I am sure a few guys understand what I am talking about.

[Web Connect]

You wouldn't really want to go there.

Honestly though, who da fuck comes all the way to China to find a 30RMB lay?

Here's something else too. At most parks, you can probably find freelance girls who will fuck for 50RMB, but that was a while back, it might be closer to 100RMB now.

Questions for individual phone numbers are also pretty lame. I mean come on, 600 million girls in the country and a dude wants to fine a needle in a haystack. Also contrary to popular belief, girls don't really like you giving out their phone number to people they don't know, especially laowai. Not to mention, girls are constantly changing their phone numbers anyway. Yes. I really want to go there. I want to be able experience it myself.

There are a lot of guys who would like a 30 RMB fuck once in a while. It does'nt make them a bad person. They come from every walk of life and every tax bracket. A 30 RMB fuck is not only for the lower tax bracket people, it is for everyone. People like to experience different things.

Can you please give the directions to these parks you speak of. A map and landmarks would be very helpful.

All the girls that had phone gave me their cell phone numbers which I called and tested. I also got their QQ number. I am a laowai and they seem to even enjoy texting me while they practiced their English. I agree girls change their cell phone number often. That is why QQ numbers are so much better.

[Web Connect]

There is NO air-conditioning during summer and NO heat during the winter. Best, yet rats or mice might be running around, a hut and a straw mat will do.

For someone who can afford to traveled around world and stay at high end 5 star hotels, I can believe someone will wants the low end stuff. Now, you are looking for 3rd world conditions for mongering.

I also noticed your posts are late or delayed about 8 hours.

For some of your hotels on your list, there are NOT 5 stars. They claim to be 5 stars but more like one star lower. The new hotel EurAsian and the Garden are 5 star hotels, this is just my opinion.The conditions you wrote about are comparable to any 3rd (and some 1st world ) country brothel, so that is nothing new. It could even be a step up from a piece of cardboard in an abandoned building or lot that is offered in some other countries.

I know it sounds hard to believe but there are guys who can afford to stay at 5 star hotels and fly all over the world that just like it really sleazy. I like it all, from hiring famous pornstars ( with pictures to prove it ) to the sleazy of the sleaziest.

That is correct, my posts are 8 hours delayed. I am not in CP anymore. So after I am done with a few more posts you won't have to hear from me for a while. :P

Hotel Star systems are for sure in the opinion of the person staying there. I compared the Miraton and Hui Hua to other self proclaimed 5 star Hotels around the world that I stayed at. I base my 5 star ratings on service, amenities and location.

Would you be so kind enough to links your reports of the EurAsian and the Garden. Directions, map and proximity to the BBSs would be very helpful.

Thanks in advance.

[Web Connect]

... but now it's clear I didn't really know what I was talking about.
There will be runners that will show you to some of the rooms in the Silver Star KTV From my experience the runners shown me rooms at the Silver Star KTV / Hotel with many girls who were available for take out. YMMV.

So it is possible a guy could be paying for a girl to sit with him at a KTV, making out and french kissing with her and only hours or even minutes earlier she was sucking and rimming some guys ass. ROTFLMAO.

[Cunning Stunt]

i'm sure you've read the stories about people taken to empty apartments and being beaten, threatened, and robbed. maybe you believe them, maybe you don't. frankly, they scare the hell out of me.


i am sure that these stories are not just apocryphal and like the **** scams in angeles and the faked suicides/murder of foreigners in pattaya, they sure do happen but are very rare and therefore are they a matter for the average, sensible, un-inebriated monger to get worked up about? any place that offers paid-for-sex to punters with thick wallets is obviously going to attract some pretty shady characters. this is a given and happens everywhere. but do they scare off any but the confirmed ‘wussies’? i think not. it’s a game for risk takers anyway. that is half the fun.

i am a newbie when it comes to cp. i spent a few days there last year and hope to return in the near future. it’s a big modern chinese city and, apart from the language problems, i had a great time. i only used bbs’s and never even got around to the saunas. i knew beforehand, that i would have no interest in the ktv joints, which i think is really a scene for the asians who like that sort of warbling nonsense. i never felt in any way intimidated or threatened at any time. it is necessary to follow a runner to view the girls but most of the places i was taken were at ground level and just off busy streets. you have to use a bit of common sense but if you haven’t got any of that, you have taken up the wrong hobby anyway.

don’t pretend to understand this thing about web connect v cp regulars. he must have ruffled a few well preened feathers to get such a response. but that is the main problem with isg – it too often becomes a conduit for big ego’s to spout, often without adding one iota of information to the knowledge base that we all rely on. hard, reliable and up-to-date info and reports are far more important to the prospective visitor than the insider prattle of old croneys. but that is just my opinion.

[Moody]

For some of your hotels on your list, there are NOT 5 stars. They claim to be 5 stars but more like one star lower. The new hotel EurAsian and the Garden are 5 star hotels, this is just my opinion.

The hotel rating system favors Chinese owned hotels. Basically, they add a star to international norms. Before the new Eurasian Hotel opened, the only 5 star hotel in CP was the Hui Hua, which, let's be honest, is not really a 5 star hotel, but since it's Chinese owned, they give them an extra star. It's like that all over China. Look at the major international chain hotels like Sheraton or Intercontinental, they get rated to a higher standard. I think the 4 Points Sheraton in Shenzhen is only rated a 4 star, and it's a MUCH better hotel than HH.

[Moody]

Yes. I really want to go there. I want to be able experience it myself.

There are a lot of guys who would like a 30 RMB fuck once in a while. It does'nt make them a bad person. They come from every walk of life and every tax bracket. A 30 RMB fuck is not only for the lower tax bracket people, it is for everyone. People like to experience different things.



Wanting a 30RMB fuck doesn't make someone a bad person. It just makes them weird, or a cheapskate. Like I said, some people have a kink or fetish for smelly and dirty, and hey, no problem there. I have a bunch of kinks myself so I won't judge anyone on that.

Getting there is described pretty well by OAH. It's not like Google streetview is available in CP and the area hasn't changed much in the past 3 years. The major landmarks are still there, unless it's changed in the past 6 months since I've been around there.

As for the parks, just find one. I've never gone looking for it. I just know because that's what I've been told by several people. They basically say, just go to a park and look around. Of course they also say, "watch some dude doesn't steal all your shit while you have your pants down." I used to have a driver who would tell me where to find action just about anywhere, but I haven't used him in like 4 years since he went back to his hometown.

[SE Asia Joe]

I'd like to get you guy-ses suggestions for the best way to Chang An from Hong Kong.

I'd previously either go on the direct bus from Hong Kong (By the way, the direct buses from Hong Kong side to CP, CA etc has now been moved to the bus station next to the Shun Tak Macau Ferry building i/o the previous Wanchai Ferry) which takes about a couple hours To ChangAn hotel (bus schedule quite limited) or else go via Luohu/Lowu, go down to the Bus Station, ground level of the Lowu Commercial Centre, bus bay #8 and buy the ticket on the bus RMB 35. Every 15-20 minutes and the last bus is at 9:20 pm

Anybody know a better way? I especially don't like that they still need to video tape all the passengers on the buses from Lowu pior to them leaving - so that if the bus gets robbed on the way, the culprit(s) would be one of the guy(s) vidoe-ed. How safe is that??? And I don't only mean their kamikaze type driving!!

SEAJ

[Santa]

Can you link your post about your experience in Shezhen. I couldn't find it. Did anything similar happen to you in CP?

If you are newbie, most likely you won't know a mommy or know where you are going if it is your first time in CP.

Did you find my information and directions to the Yalan BBSs accurate or do you have something to add or amend?

For me it happened many years ago, back when this website had a different name and before I had discovered it. Followed 2 ladies in the Lowu area. While we were having fun in the shower some guys pretending to be police came to the bedroom door. Against my protestations one of the girls ran and unlocked the door. They grabbed my wallet and ran, about $200 US cash. Fortunately, my passport and money belt was hidden in my hotel room.

There was a detailed report here on the Dongguan thread just a few months ago. 2 mongers, seperate circumstances, were lured to an apartment near the HuiMei. They were severely beaten, robbed and held captive.

You have found the shop locations on your own and without problems, and you feel safe. Another guy might not be so lucky.