General Info

[Gangles]

RK, I understand your scepticism about the level of training in HRM courses in the Phils. But keep in mind that the Phils college entrant has had only 10 years in elementary and secondary school, compared with 12 year program in most western countries. So it is expected that they will undertake training at Tech Voc (TAFE) level in college.

It is in the post grad. Masteral level, that the student will get the better education to western standards.

My observation is that undergraduate degrees in the US are similar, and it is not till the student completes a masters that he / she is considered fully qualified. This is a very expensive way to get educated, but is OK in a rich country that can afford it. As the tertiary education system in your country, Australia, is progressively being dumbed down, it is going the same way. Today, a student graduating with a degree in nursing is now required to take post grad training in a hospital before they are employable.

Gangles.

Nice thoughtful post E T. You made some good points, especially the one about pinoy OFWs pushing down wages by being prepared to work for peanuts.

HRM is still a very good option for those who can afford the high end training schools (those that advertise in the glossy magazines like "Appetite" and others) but the fees are way out of reach of anybody but the wealthiest filipinos. These schools teach advanced cooking skills at international level, and some celebrities have gained publicity when they graduated from them.

For the rest, who are in the degree mills in the local second-rate cheaper tertiary programs, it is low-end training that will equip a graduate to be a waiter, drink attendant or hotel room maid.

I discussed an HRM student's curriculum with her recently and it was "setting tables", folding table napkins, correct way to serve different dishes, how to make beds, etc.

I am not joking.

Thankfully, some schools also include psychology and economics type programs so that students learn a framework for interpreting personalities and maybe some money management "skills" for when they open their own sari sari store because it is unlikely that they will get employment in any high end hotel unless they are prepared to start as a qualified room maid / boy.

[Run Mann]

This is a rehash of a discussion on this board but it's quite easy to print the email confirmation of an airline ticket and carry it with you. As mentioned below airlines simply do not want to be fined by the host country and have to pay to transport destitute or desolate travelers out of any country should they be denied entry or if you travel on a one way ticket and don't have the funds to get yourself out of that country.

When returning from Manila, I'm always asked for the paper ticket just to enter the airport terminal but it's too easy as I always print my email confirmation of my airline tickets and hotel vouchers. Eliminating electronic tickets was a cost saving measure for the airline and their customers as many customers who lost or forgot their paper tickets at home had to pay outrageous replacement costs to replace those paper tickets. At least now no one has to pay to replace those tickets.

[Stroker Ace88]

I arrived at Cebu airport and was making my way to the Check in counter for a trip to Manila, not thru any security or anything and there was a security gate, they wanted to see my passport and the printout for the e-ticket. After some searching I found the printout,

Whewww.

Normally you just walk up to the counter or monitor and give those documents. Security was not even going to let me to check-in counters with out it? Where would I be if I could not find the printout for eticket?

Nothing new. Every airport in the Philippines has a security check point including metal detectors before you are allowed to access the airline check-in desk. This has been standard OP for a long time and even smaller airports have this process in place. You need to present a vaild e-ticket copy or paper ticket issued by the airline-travel agent along with your passport to the guard. No ticket and-or no passport you are denied entry. You have to have your sh*t together and all documents ready when you fly in the Philippines.

If you arrived at MCIA without a ticket (or without e-ticket printout) and wanted to fly last minute most airlines have a small ticket office located outside the International terminal.

[FreebieFan]

my passport and itinerary (top half). He punched in my name, looked at the computer screen and itinerary, then asked where the rest of the itinerary was. I told him I used it for something else and threw it away (true)."Sorry sir. It says you must show the itinerary and your credit card here at the counter. I need to see your credit card also and the rest of the itinerary." Crrrrrrappp! By luck, I had an extra copy of the itinerary with my stuff that I forgot that I stuck in with my travel documents, and used that. I'm not sure how much of a the turd the guy was going to be about it, but there you have it. While processing my boarding pass, he said: "This might also have been a problem with immigration once you reach Philippines sir if you don't have the full itinerary." He seemed decent about it.

A year ago on Korean Airlines, while checking in on the US west coast, I was asked for the original credit card. Crap, I kept only my ATM and one Visa card in my wallet, the other CC's I had dumped in my car glove compartment. They were adamant that I show it. I had to leave the airport and taxi to the carport and retrieve it. Upon re-checkin, everything seemed fine, and the new clerk gave me this reminder about the itinerary: "Keep this paper. Don't lose this. Philippine Immigration has become quite insistent that you show a departing flight out of Philippines within 21 days sir."

The long-haul airlines seem to be doing Phils immigration's job for them.

Wonder what happens with this need for paper, given that its quite normal for some "advanced carriers " to have provide an e- boarding pass without the need for any printed ticket, or eticket. Cathay runs an eboarding pass system, whereby you check in online, and the boarding pass is sent to you by email, no itinerary needed, no check in needed (if no bags) and only show boarding pass at immigration from your phone.

Can you imagine those infantile kids at Cebu Pacific trying to deal with that." No Sir, we need paper. We don't trust anything but paper. Yes Sir I know we are in 21st century but we need paper " LOL.

[WestCoast1]

If it is such an issue that a paper itinerary be present at check-in, why not have the clerk hit the "prt-scr" key, print out a paper copy of the itinerary right there for the customer, and be done with the situation? They went paperless not to save on paper, but on the mailing costs. A printed sheet of paper on a $1400 ticket is meaningless. The whole purpose of paperless ticketing is not to have the customer print it, it is that, eventually, the customer shows up with only his passport to check in. We are a long way from that.

[Starchild2012]

I think Cathy and some other Asian based carriers have been asking this for a long time so not new in the region, but this stupidity seems to be spreading. Welcome to the Philppines (if you can get there)! LOL

Hahaha. Yes. Cathay, Singapore, Thai airways all ask for return ticket, all Asian carriers do. The reason is third world citizens aka slaves are treated like throw away objects. If a visiting country denies visa, its the airline's duty to deport the passenger back to his home country. So if one does not have return ticket, they loose a lot of money.

Not sure, may be as Europe and American economies are going down as well, they believe most tourist are on a one way mode, never to come back. If its a trend in PH, I'm sure, slowly it would be for Thailand, China, Malaysia etc as well. These things to haress tourists get copied very fast by other countries.

[Econo Tech]

I think Cathy and some other Asian based carriers have been asking this for a long time so not new in the region, but this stupidity seems to be spreading. Welcome to the Philppines (if you can get there)! LOL

That law that carriers must ensure passengers must have valid return has been in force, for donkey years, it is just that the carriers are taking it more seriously as any pax with refused entry end up being hauled back at the carrier's cost back to where they took him / her.

[Jp Slicky]

I arrived at Cebu airport and was making my way to the Check in counter for a trip to Manila, not thru any security or anything and there was a security gate, they wanted to see my passport and the printout for the e-ticket. After some searching I found the printout, Whewww. Normally you just walk up to the counter or monitor and give those documents. Security was not even going to let me to check-in counters with out it? Where would I be if I could not find the printout for eticket?

[WestCoast1]

Just so that we all know as I did not and in case others don't know. A new rule to further encourage tourists to PI.

All tourists on long haul international flights must show a return ticket or otherwise not allowed on the plane.

While this stupid rule has been in force for some airlines especially PI based ones (eg Cebu Pacific) and some in Asia, it has never in all my years been applied to long haul international flights. Until now. Was staggered to be asked by Emirates for a paper copy of the return ticket when it only uses e tickets.

The lady said was a new rule (last week) and airline had no idea why etc and thought it was stupid but unless she saw a paper copy she would not let me on the plane. And she said, it is an e ticket so we can't make a copy here at the airport! She saw the boking but said not good enough. Must see paper copy (maybe again we will be asked to show this at immgration? As not been asked this for a long time either)

This has been in effect for some time now in the States. I got hit with it recently by my long-haul west coast carrier, and a year ago by Korean airlines. In both cases, they wanted to see my full itinerary (printed) , even though it was right in front of them on their computer, when comparing with my passport. On the recent trip, at the counter, I had previously needed to write down a phone number. I had used the back of the itinerary to write the number while at home. I tore the lower half of the itinerary off to keep the phone number, and I put the top half in my carry-on. At the counter I handed the clerk my passport and itinerary (top half). He punched in my name, looked at the computer screen and itinerary, then asked where the rest of the itinerary was. I told him I used it for something else and threw it away (true)."Sorry sir. It says you must show the itinerary and your credit card here at the counter. I need to see your credit card also and the rest of the itinerary." Crrrrrrappp! By luck, I had an extra copy of the itinerary with my stuff that I forgot that I stuck in with my travel documents, and used that. I'm not sure how much of a the turd the guy was going to be about it, but there you have it. While processing my boarding pass, he said: "This might also have been a problem with immigration once you reach Philippines sir if you don't have the full itinerary." He seemed decent about it.

A year ago on Korean Airlines, while checking in on the US west coast, I was asked for the original credit card. Crap, I kept only my ATM and one Visa card in my wallet, the other CC's I had dumped in my car glove compartment. They were adamant that I show it. I had to leave the airport and taxi to the carport and retrieve it. Upon re-checkin, everything seemed fine, and the new clerk gave me this reminder about the itinerary: "Keep this paper. Don't lose this. Philippine Immigration has become quite insistent that you show a departing flight out of Philippines within 21 days sir."

The long-haul airlines seem to be doing Phils immigration's job for them.

[BionicMan]

Just so that we all know as I did not and in case others don't know. A new rule to further encourage tourists to PI.

It happens often in many countries. I reached BKK from Europe with Emirates (return ticket) and from there I had a Thai ticket to China and back to BKK. Of course the two airlines did not share the itienerary in their systems. So for Thai my flight back to BKK did not show any "out of Thailand" trip afterwards. I had to show them the later BKK-Europe with Emirates to prove I was not planning to spend the rest of my life in Thailand (with no resident visa). Airlines are often fined (at least 5, 000$) and have the obligatin to bring back the passenger to where he boarded last to go there, if immigration authorities finds that the airline did not pay attention to documents, visa etc.
I agree, it is ridiculous of being asked for a paper copy of the electronic ticket! Airlines weere pleased to announce a 12 mil $ saving when e-tkts were introduced (much to their margins, not our benefit) as well as e-check-in. No tto mention, at their say, the green contribution to less paper etc. What in reality happened is that they simply trasnfer the burden to the passengers. Who are paying for the paper far more than what the airline pays, passengers who have to print a full page for just 1/3 of a page needed (and the rest full of coloured advertising!) for the boarding pass and so on. I always have with me the whole e-file of the ticket in the smart phone. I know it can be forged, but for f***sake: shows my name, my name is in the passport, the ticket is in their system...who else than me and how can I forge a fake return ticket in their system? Fact is that immigrations should access the airline systems through a database keyed on ticket numbers to cross check: nice an dbright idea, but a mission impossible.

[Wicked Roger]

Just so that we all know as I did not and in case others don't know. A new rule to further encourage tourists to PI.

All tourists on long haul international flights must show a return ticket or otherwise not allowed on the plane.

While this stupid rule has been in force for some airlines especially PI based ones (eg Cebu Pacific) and some in Asia, it has never in all my years been applied to long haul international flights. Until now. Was staggered to be asked by Emirates for a paper copy of the return ticket when it only uses e tickets.

The lady said was a new rule (last week) and airline had no idea why etc and thought it was stupid but unless she saw a paper copy she would not let me on the plane. And she said, it is an e ticket so we can't make a copy here at the airport! She saw the boking but said not good enough. Must see paper copy (maybe again we will be asked to show this at immgration? As not been asked this for a long time either)

I think Cathy and some other Asian based carriers have been asking this for a long time so not new in the region, but this stupidity seems to be spreading. Welcome to the Philppines (if you can get there)! LOL

[Questor55]

I know the GM of one of Davao's larger and best known hotels reasonably well. He told me that most of the HRM graduates he interviews are "useless," as they spend four years learning how to fold napkins and make beds; skills, he said, that he could teach them in a week. He also told me that they arrive knowing nothing about management, administration, accountancy and utterly lacking in the skill sets that are required for real hotel management. Their career path, he told me, is to remain waitresses.

In most of the universities with which I'm familiar, HRM is just another link in the chain of endless tertiary-level rip-offs perpetrated on naive, young students who just don't now any better.

GE

Yes GE, and it's even worse than you suggest. An extremely high percentage of 'graduates' in many fields NEVER get hired. (eg nursing, teaching, HRM, ad nausam). Many 'nurses' cannot afford, or fail the certification exams and end up volunteering (zero pay) or worse. Have to pay a 'fee' to even get taken on as volunteers.

[Wicked Roger]

At a time when the country needs foreign investment, needs to create real jobs, build infrastructure, improve the education curiccula and institutions. And so on. The politicians, well Gloria Arroyo (GMA) , thinks this bill to let guys have paternity leave over and above the already permitted 4. Yes 4 times they can get paternity leave!

http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/364963...eave-extension

I would have thought she she sponor a bill to limit this to 1 or maximum 2. But then as many don't have work this would not an incentive.

IMHO this is another example of the idiocy of the system and government. She could of course help the investment programme by returning some of her alleged ill gtoten gains but as Imelda is still rolling in it there is likely 2 hopes of that happening. Bob and none (and Bob is dead) LOL

[GoodEnough]

according to a recent speech by a vice president of one of the larger call center companies here (concentrix) , within 5-6 years the total revenues countrywide from bpos will be higher than those assoociated with remittances. that's the good news. the bad news is that approximately 90% of all those taking the call center entrance exams fail as their english is simply not (no pun intended) good enough. the other barrier to call center employment is that it requires a minimum of two years of university. this may change with the introduction of the k-12 curriculum, but for now, it's a criterion to which strict attention is being paid.

ge

[Starchild2012]

If Filipino graduate has some command over English, he could easily get a 20, 000 PHP starting salary in any of the 700 call centers in the PH. India was once the call center capital of the world, which PH took it over couple of years back, I have worked in a call center in India, when industry was moving from west. When I came to the PH and met some of the folks from call center Industry, I thought India's call center days are over.

Filipino's have American culture, neutral accent and compared to India way better infrastructure. It was only a matter of time, now PH is number 1 and made some 12 billion dollars from call center and it would soon take over 250 billion dollar BPO business from India as well.

PH economy on the strength of BPO, call center OFW remittance is doing better than before, credit agencies upgraded their investment rating and peso is strengthening against dollar. Indians are gasping with their open mouth looking at all jobs being shifted to the PH and even Indian call center are setting up shop in the PH.

This is the headline recently.

Indian jobs off shored to Philippines?

http://news.in.msn.com/business/equi...ntid=250266823

How Philippines beat India at the outsourcing game.

http://www.firstpost.com/business/ho...me-364872.html

This call center story, even though won't do much to the poverty in the PH as a whole, but will surely lift economic performance of the country in the long term. Its no magic wand but if you are a graduate and willing to learn, its guaranteed you could get a job in the PH easily now a days.

Unfortunately, the girls we meet, whether we like it or not, seems to be bottom of the food chain. If a girl cannot find a job in a call center industry after graduation in the middle of the biggest boom the PH has ever seen. There is not much to talk about.

If we just get out of this date in asia stuff and meet women who are doing well. Its entirely different ball game. I think we are biased in the assessment, majority of women with at least a decent qualification do not have to look for job in the PH, it will come after you.

If you refer a friend to a call center in Convergys and Accenture in Makati, you will get 20, 000 pesos as a referral fee if the girls / guy is hired.

-

If you want to help your girl. Just put her in accent training classes for few months in manila or cebu. The course will cost less than 10, 000 peso and she will get a guaranteed job, if she is willing to do it.

College students find work in call centers.

http://opinion.inquirer.net/31747/co...n-call-centers

Quote from the link 'All of us have work—me, my father, mother and my elder sister, ' she said.

Even part time call center jobs are available, why would anyone want to do HRM, criminology, nursing etc. When. In few years. People will be dragged from the streets of manila and put up in call center. The industry is booming.