Kyiv

[LilJoey]

I second that!

I don't have such a technical expertise. But the next time I'm in Kiev, if you are up to it, I'd join you on the expedition to the apartments.

I'd think that, however, these apartments you are talking about should already be operating as massage parlors or salons, don't you think?

Dear Sorbonne,

You are correct. I too believe that what we are dealing with are agencies or groups of girls who are already working out of an apartment or salon of some sort. They have resorted to advertising in a clever way on the internet to draw in business from foreigners who are searching for p4p girls on today's forum of choice namely, the internet. Who would take the time to create an escort website complete with pictures? Clearly only a business that had girls available for escort. There are two possibilities. (1) that the girls remain in their own homes or doing their own stuff until called and they have merely listed their contact info with the agency phone girl who calls them when there is a call, or (2) the girls are already in business in an apartment or in an agency salon for incall or outcall from there and they are trying to expand their business by advertising on the internet. By calling the telephone numbers on the website ads and asking if we can come to their apartment and more importantly, how many girls are available for us to meet at their apartment, we can determine more accurately what we are dealing with. I am interested in visiting only those locations with a fair number of girls available to meet at one time. Otherwise the effort will be too time consuming.

In furtherance of this plan for research, I have analyzed an escort website whose pictures I like very much, namely, www.escort-models.com. I have sorted the girls by telephone number. I have found that most of the numerous girls on that website have listed one or the other of five (5) main telephone numbers. There were three possibilities. (1) all 5 phone numbers are for one apartment location. (2) there are actually five different apartments, each with a bunch of girls there. (3) the five numbers all go to the same phone booker for the agency who calls their girls from a list and there is no apartment where the girls are sitting and waiting for business. So I called some of the numbers and I reached someone at two of the phone numbers so far. Both times I was told I could come to meet the girls at an apartment. The address of the apartment was given as 36B or 36 Lesi Ukrainki Blvd. This indicated that it is likely that all the numbers are for one location. When I asked how many girls were there to meet, I was told it depends and to call when I am ready to come. When I asked what is the apartment number, I was told to call again when I am at the building and she will give the apartment number. It sounds like it is worth checking out. But I don't want to go alone to an apartment somewhere in Kiev as I don't know for sure what is waiting there. We have all read stories of girls luring guys to their apartment where goons are waiting to rob them and throw them out. So this is best done by two or three guys going together and / or with a local taxi driver in tow. After we know that it is a legitimate brothel or salon, others can go with no concern or worry.

I will be in Kiev for two weekends April 14 and April 28, if anyone is interested in pursuing this matter.

Best regards,

LJ

[LilJoey]

I think I answered:

The other way around is to tell on the phone that you send the girl back if she is switched! I always turn such girls in the door unless the girl that comes is really beautiful. However, we should give the girl taxi money, because she is usually innocent, she is just sent and know nothing about what has been said before. She is innocent, but she has to pay herself if she is sent back without taxi money. If you send back it can be easier to do so if you meet her on the street?

If this happens regularly, they will stop! But I am convinced that there will always be too many guys who do not do so, we are fighting a losing battle! But I am happy to do it, turm away the wrong girl, but give her taxi money!

It's apparent you didn't get the point of what I wrote to you. Perhaps the fault is mine in the way I expressed my thought. But let me try to make it clearer for you. You are apparently content with the current system where we call and invite girls who are using fake pictures and then we wait to see what type of girl actually shows up, and if she is not to our liking, then we send her away with taxi money. I am NOT satisfied with this system and consider it a large waste of time. I don't come to Kiev to be with average looking girls. I am not as forgiving as you toward the system where average looking girls use fake photos of hot models to get us to invite them to our apartments. I am only interested in being with girls who are like in the fake photos who are 9's and 10's. Anything that prevents that, I consider a waste of my time. So I reject the internet girls system currently in place in Kiev and would like to find a way to change the whole system so I can choose a girl who is a beauty like in the photos and get her, with no surprises and no waiting to see and then sending her away.

Currently, I am only able to get the kind of girls that I want at clubs. But it is too expensive.

I would like to find or create a solution that will allow me to get girls as hot and beautiful as in the photos for 600 UAH or 800 UAH from the internet. Is it possible? I asked for suggestions on how THIS can be accomplished. We shall see.

Hope you understand what I am after now.

Best regards,

LJ

[Sorbonne]

How about throwing a River Palace Reunion for girls somewhere in Kiev ?

[Sorbonne]

Dear Mystery77,

I should be painfully obvious to you by now, both from reading what is written on this forum, as well as your own reported experiences of getting fake girl after fake girl from your efforts on Mamba, that there is no accuracy to any of the current websites in Kiev. Instead, they all use fake photos. You have written that you are booking average girls. This is the result of you relying on the internet girls who use the fake photos to get you to call them.

If you enjoy really hot girls (9's and 10's) , which it seems you do from your post about the beauty that is available in the clubs, then you need to realize that in the current situation it will be very difficult to get a 9 or a 10 girl to come to you from mamba or other websites.

This is because those who created the websites or who advertise on mamba have complete contempt for you and all the other sex tourists to Kiev at which these advertisements are directed. They seek to "bait" and seduce you into calling them to come to your apartment despite the fact that they look NOTHING like the hot girls in the photos they posted on the website. Just accept it. These are the facts.

So what you will get from calling a girl from the internet, is completely a result of chance. However, the statistical fact that there are a lot of cute gilrs in Kiev in the general population may give you a better chance of getting a decent looking girl who is reasonably slim and nice looking. However, don't hold your breath waiting for a 9 or a 10 to show up at your door by accident or chance.

Currently if you want a 9 or a 10, you will have to go to clubs where they are and pay through your nose for it.

I have noticed that there are a lot of internet sites with really hot photos that are asking prices like 800 UAH, but there are also other websites with prices of 150 Euro / hr or 200 Euro / hr. Does anyone think that the fact that ridiculously high prices for Kiev are being asked on some websites means that the girls are actually as beautiful as shown in the photos? We would so much want to believe it is so. It is perhaps worth a try. Obviously if they send an average looking girl instead of the beauty you expect based on the photo ad, you should simply send the girl away, especially at their very high prices. All they will have wasted is your Time.

But the above situation is the reason that I am looking for a solution to change things.

I have made a 1st suggestion previously, of trying to go to the girls' apartments to inspect who is there and see if there are any true hotties available, and to report this information, and build a list of hotties available at the various apartment locations.

A 2nd suggestion is that what we need in Kiev is a trustworthy website for girls with verified photos. So if there is anyone out there on this forum with the technical know-how to set up a website for "Verified Kiev Girls", that should not be accessible within Ukraine (so the girls will have less concern that their photos are on it) , and that will have someone independent from this forum with control over the reviews (so we can rely on it) , then we could start notifying any true hotties we meet at clubs or on mamba to list themselves with a free ad on this website, and since they are actually hot, it will definitely increase their business.

I second that!

I don't have such a technical expertise. But the next time I'm in Kiev, if you are up to it, I'd join you on the expedition to the apartments.

I'd think that, however, these apartments you are talking about should already be operating as massage parlors or salons, don't you think?

[LilJoey]

How accurate is this internet site with the quality of women fella's?

Experienced site players please respond.

Dear Mystery77,

I should be painfully obvious to you by now, both from reading what is written on this forum, as well as your own reported experiences of getting fake girl after fake girl from your efforts on Mamba, that there is no accuracy to any of the current websites in Kiev. Instead, they all use fake photos. You have written that you are booking average girls. This is the result of you relying on the internet girls who use the fake photos to get you to call them.

If you enjoy really hot girls (9's and 10's) , which it seems you do from your post about the beauty that is available in the clubs, then you need to realize that in the current situation it will be very difficult to get a 9 or a 10 girl to come to you from mamba or other websites.

This is because those who created the websites or who advertise on mamba have complete contempt for you and all the other sex tourists to Kiev at which these advertisements are directed. They seek to "bait" and seduce you into calling them to come to your apartment despite the fact that they look NOTHING like the hot girls in the photos they posted on the website. Just accept it. These are the facts.

So what you will get from calling a girl from the internet, is completely a result of chance. However, the statistical fact that there are a lot of cute gilrs in Kiev in the general population may give you a better chance of getting a decent looking girl who is reasonably slim and nice looking. However, don't hold your breath waiting for a 9 or a 10 to show up at your door by accident or chance.

Currently if you want a 9 or a 10, you will have to go to clubs where they are and pay through your nose for it.

I have noticed that there are a lot of internet sites with really hot photos that are asking prices like 800 UAH, but there are also other websites with prices of 150 Euro / hr or 200 Euro / hr. Does anyone think that the fact that ridiculously high prices for Kiev are being asked on some websites means that the girls are actually as beautiful as shown in the photos? We would so much want to believe it is so. It is perhaps worth a try. Obviously if they send an average looking girl instead of the beauty you expect based on the photo ad, you should simply send the girl away, especially at their very high prices. All they will have wasted is your Time.

But the above situation is the reason that I am looking for a solution to change things.

I have made a 1st suggestion previously, of trying to go to the girls' apartments to inspect who is there and see if there are any true hotties available, and to report this information, and build a list of hotties available at the various apartment locations.

A 2nd suggestion is that what we need in Kiev is a trustworthy website for girls with verified photos. So if there is anyone out there on this forum with the technical know-how to set up a website for "Verified Kiev Girls", that should not be accessible within Ukraine (so the girls will have less concern that their photos are on it) , and that will have someone independent from this forum with control over the reviews (so we can rely on it) , then we could start notifying any true hotties we meet at clubs or on mamba to list themselves with a free ad on this website, and since they are actually hot, it will definitely increase their business.

[Explorer69]

Dear Explorer69,

I don't disagree with anything you've written, but the point I'm trying to address is how to improve our situation with respect to girls advertising on the internet on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or other websites that are using fake photos and "bait and switch" tactics which wastes our time and prevents us from being able to select the girl that we want.

Obviously, you can see the girls in advance in Rio strip club or any nightclub where WG's hang out, but they are generally quite expensive.

It is the reasonable prices of girls on internet of 600 UAH or even 800 UAH that make it an important area of inquiry. If you can come up with suggestions how to improve our abilities to get the girls we want and change the status quo of how it works now where we just wait to see what "surprise" will arrive at our door, that would be the help I am asking for.

Best regards,

LJ

I think I answered:

The other way around is to tell on the phone that you send the girl back if she is switched! I always turn such girls in the door unless the girl that comes is really beautiful. However, we should give the girl taxi money, because she is usually innocent, she is just sent and know nothing about what has been said before. She is innocent, but she has to pay herself if she is sent back without taxi money. If you send back it can be easier to do so if you meet her on the street?

If this happens regularly, they will stop! But I am convinced that there will always be too many guys who do not do so, we are fighting a losing battle! But I am happy to do it, turm away the wrong girl, but give her taxi money!

[Mystery77]

How accurate is this internet site with the quality of women fella's?

Experienced site players please respond.

[Mystery77]

Their is an echo. An echo. Echo.

Really the level of beauty in the clubs you can meet. Surpass the net easy!

Really the level of beauty in the clubs you can meet. Surpass the net easy!

Really the level of beauty in the clubs you can meet. Surpass the net easy!

Sponsored by:

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Ukrainian champagne

[Mystery77]

Dear Explorer69,

I don't disagree with anything you've written, but the point I'm trying to address is how to improve our situation with respect to girls advertising on the internet on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or other websites that are using fake photos and "bait and switch" tactics which wastes our time and prevents us from being able to select the girl that we want.

Obviously, you can see the girls in advance in Rio strip club or any nightclub where WG's hang out, but they are generally quite expensive.

It is the reasonable prices of girls on internet of 600 UAH or even 800 UAH that make it an important area of inquiry. If you can come up with suggestions how to improve our abilities to get the girls we want and change the status quo of how it works now where we just wait to see what "surprise" will arrive at our door, that would be the help I am asking for.

Best regards,

LJ

Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you going to fuck.

To be honest I have seen 16 women now. & only 2 have been real & not near what I expected.

[Mystery77]

Hello, to every one

I have just came back from Kiev. And it was a fantastic trip I really enjoyed the City and the girls! I had different girls every day in my apartment. Tanks to you here I decide to go to Kiev so thanks a lot for the information and help. I relied only to mamba to find the girls and have contacted several girls before I went, but all the girls that I have contacted and came to my apartments they was not the the same girls on the mamba photo, all of them told me yes I am the girls on the photo even when I told them if you are not the same I will send you away, but still the girls showing up where very fuckuble, and I paid from 60/75 Euros + Taxi (35 grivnia) and I think none of them where freebie. So please it is some thing normal that I never get the real girl from mamba? It is some thing of luck to have the same girl on photo on mamba? When I asked one girls she told me that girls don't want to show there face that's why put fake photo. And another thing I called the girls from mamba to arrange the meeting when are next to my apartment they call me but then when I go outside to meet them and pay the taxi, the girl she does not speak English at all, so on the mobile I did not spoke with the same girls that shows up, so I really don't know what was going on, so probably there are some girls live together and they make there living in this way, and the girls that can speak English make the dealing also for there friends or something like this. But all in all very positive and addictive experience

Amunra

Nice! Any 10. 9's. 8's. You could forward me the contacts. I seem to be bonking overall average! Though I have not really been in the clubs much. I been ordering room service.

You probably pretty accurate with that dynamic of dealing with "us" being the customers. Lady english etc.

I never had the real girl on mamba bad once! & she was worse than all of them in the looks department as I mentioned in a previous post. Just took the best fucking pictures of the century!

I even had a fake show me her new profile online, she was hot enough compared to most the mamba / flirt girls.

However I can guarantee you the new girl pic's she posted of the her on profile was like. UnBeLieVable!

She's like this is me! I'm like very interesting, she is well fine. Like the best pussy available online. However you get a cute psychology student with dimples. Like I said way better than most that has knocked on my door.

[Mystery77]

http://escort-models.com/en/girls/ca...alena_308.html

Nice cool girl. 23 probably. No where near the sophistication of the link pictures.

Though up for a fuck! Sporty & strongest girl I've been with here since.

Did not like kissing her at all, though did like fucking harder than usual. Due to her flirty athleticism.

If the model on profile was a 10. She would get a 5 maybe 6.

With that said however, remember fucking & looks are different gentlemen.

My dick is reasonably happy, my tongue is not.

[LilJoey]

This is a good idea! I also believe there are 2 ways:

1. To go to the source and inspect the girls. That is why I like to go to clubs etc and see what I get.

2. The other way around is to tell on the phone that you send the girl back if she is switched! I always turn such girls in the door unless the girl that comes is really beautiful. However, we should give the girl taxi money, because she is usually innocent, she is just sent and know nothing about what has been said before. She is innocent, but she has to pay herself if she is sent back without taxi money. If you send back it can be easier to do so if you meet her on the street?

Dear Explorer69,

I don't disagree with anything you've written, but the point I'm trying to address is how to improve our situation with respect to girls advertising on the internet on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or other websites that are using fake photos and "bait and switch" tactics which wastes our time and prevents us from being able to select the girl that we want.

Obviously, you can see the girls in advance in Rio strip club or any nightclub where WG's hang out, but they are generally quite expensive.

It is the reasonable prices of girls on internet of 600 UAH or even 800 UAH that make it an important area of inquiry. If you can come up with suggestions how to improve our abilities to get the girls we want and change the status quo of how it works now where we just wait to see what "surprise" will arrive at our door, that would be the help I am asking for.

Best regards,

LJ

[Explorer69]

The girl you spoke to in English was the phone girl / booker for an agency or a girl apartment (like a privat) even though she will pretend to be the individual girl you think you are calling and of course fake photos are used as their advertisements on mamba and other websites. I have written this before, and many others have written the same before me, so it was possible to know this by reading the forum before you even went to Kiev.

The good news is that the girls who actually showed up for the appointments with you were good looking enough to please you! But this is a matter of chance. So you should regard yourself as lucky.

I would like to invite the brain trust comprised of the writers on this forum to give thought to developing a strategy to counteract the current way the agencies and girl apartments are working currently in Kiev. There isd no reason that we must simply accept the ridiculous status quo of bait and switch operations, where we wait to see how horrible the girl is that they are sending (since we know the pictures were fake) or whether we will be lucky that an acceptably nice looking girl will show up completely by chance.

I have been thinking that one method is for us to try to go to the source where the girls are being dispatched from (if they are located in an apartment somewhere downtown) and in this way get to inspect the entire brood at one time and see if there are any true hotties there, get their names, and make up an agreement with the manager to select the ones I want to come to my apartment for appointments.

I propose to do this research in any spare time during my upcoming weekends in Kiev on April 14 and April 28. I am concerned about security in doing this, and invite any of you that will be in Kiev at the same time as me to join up as wingmen. Otherwise, I will probably try to find a local driver who will go with me and be some security in this endeavor. We can turn the tables on the bait and switch operations if we can find our way to their apartments to inspect the merchandise in advance. Then the information and recommendations about girls who are good could be posted here. What a different scenario Kiev could be if we knew who the hotties were and where to contact them to invite them to come for appointments.

Any other ideas?

LJ

This is a good idea! I also believe there are 2 ways:

1. To go to the source and inspect the girls. That is why I like to go to clubs etc and see what I get.

2. The other way around is to tell on the phone that you send the girl back if she is switched! I always turn such girls in the door unless the girl that comes is really beautiful. However, we should give the girl taxi money, because she is usually innocent, she is just sent and know nothing about what has been said before. She is innocent, but she has to pay herself if she is sent back without taxi money. If you send back it can be easier to do so if you meet her on the street?

[Amunra]

Before I wend to Kiev I have spend lot of time reading your posts but from what I have read I made the conclusion that there is the chance of fake photos on mamba not that is the rule that the photos are fake and mamba is a place where agencies make there fake advertisements like other escort websites! Regarding your idea to go to the source I can not help you now because I am not going to Kiev soon but if I was there I think I will help you to do it. I tried to ask a girl how does this thing work the (call a girl on mamba and she speak English but another one shows up and different from the photo) but she seams that she did in want to tell me so I did not insist. So for me is not a big deal that the photos are fake I wish that I have get the girls that I have seen on mamba photo but not knowing what is coming to you it is very exciting but may be because I like the surprises only one girl I have not accept because she was little ugly but still I have paid the Taxi to her but this is me I am to good and of course I didn't want any trouble I was there the first time and completely alone

[LilJoey]

Hello, to every one

I have just came back from Kiev. And it was a fantastic trip. But all the girls that I have contacted and came to my apartments they was not the the same girls on the mamba photo. The girl she does not speak English at all,

Amunra

The girl you spoke to in English was the phone girl / booker for an agency or a girl apartment (like a privat) even though she will pretend to be the individual girl you think you are calling and of course fake photos are used as their advertisements on mamba and other websites. I have written this before, and many others have written the same before me, so it was possible to know this by reading the forum before you even went to Kiev.

The good news is that the girls who actually showed up for the appointments with you were good looking enough to please you! But this is a matter of chance. So you should regard yourself as lucky.

I would like to invite the brain trust comprised of the writers on this forum to give thought to developing a strategy to counteract the current way the agencies and girl apartments are working currently in Kiev. There isd no reason that we must simply accept the ridiculous status quo of bait and switch operations, where we wait to see how horrible the girl is that they are sending (since we know the pictures were fake) or whether we will be lucky that an acceptably nice looking girl will show up completely by chance.

I have been thinking that one method is for us to try to go to the source where the girls are being dispatched from (if they are located in an apartment somewhere downtown) and in this way get to inspect the entire brood at one time and see if there are any true hotties there, get their names, and make up an agreement with the manager to select the ones I want to come to my apartment for appointments.

I propose to do this research in any spare time during my upcoming weekends in Kiev on April 14 and April 28. I am concerned about security in doing this, and invite any of you that will be in Kiev at the same time as me to join up as wingmen. Otherwise, I will probably try to find a local driver who will go with me and be some security in this endeavor. We can turn the tables on the bait and switch operations if we can find our way to their apartments to inspect the merchandise in advance. Then the information and recommendations about girls who are good could be posted here. What a different scenario Kiev could be if we knew who the hotties were and where to contact them to invite them to come for appointments.

Any other ideas?

LJ