Bangkok Reports

[Hiihii]

What am I missing. I hardly notice any change in 10 years. Mp prices same same. Agogo 10 years ago bf 600 today its still 600. 50 baht increase in hotel, big whoop. Girls still accept 2k short time. Agogo girls bad value 10 years ago and are still bad value today. LOL.

[Goatscrot]

After CH my friend and I walked down Soi Cowboy and were particularly enchanted by the Coyote girls outside of Sahara. I have avoided the Coyote bars in SC like a venereal disease but we figured what the heck, the girls are cute and it will only cost a beer. Which was 200 baht as it turned out. On the menu it states that the go-go girls can be bar fined for 800 baht. Not great but these girls were looking fine so I inquire from a service girl and then a mamasan about them. The service girl says the bf for Coyote girls is 7, 000 baht. I assume I have misheard her and ask again. 7,000 baht. No wait here it says 800 baht. She replies, that is for the go-go girls, not Coyote girls. Coyote girls are 7, 000 baht just for the barfine. At that point I didn't bother to ask how much they charged. I have to wonder if anyone has ever barfined one of these girls. Lady drinks were 230 baht. It turns out that they have a handful of go-go "girls" of which half of them were clearly lady boys and the females were not much better looking.

Coyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza. Went to Wild Thing on the 3rd floor 2 nights ago. This used to be Tokyo Nights and before that Las Vegas. Now it is primarily a Coyote bar. For some strange reason it has never been popular even back when it was LV and had a bunch of good looking women. But I would say it has hit rock bottom now. One at a minimum expects Coyote girls to be somewhat attractive but most of these girls were awful, overweight and unpleasing to the eye. But from what I understand much cheaper than those in Sahara. 1,000 baht barfine and 2, 000 for the girl. Wild Thing also gets my vote for the worst music in any go-go and that is not an easy award to win. The dj seemed to feel it is necessary to overlay every song with the same bass beat that shook the room. I left with a headache. I often wonder, as a manager is it more important to make musical choices for the dancers or for the customers. The dancers seem to have won out because the vast majority of customers I see are 40+ and I could be wrong but blasting rap and hip-hop would likely not be their first choice. Erotica on the second floor is the only go-go I know of that still plays rock music. Unfortunately that is about the best thing going on in there. Coyote girls are also in Fantasia, Play Skool and tonight Mandarin upstairs introduced a small sampling of them. Mandarin upstairs will soon be re-opening the floor above and possibly introducing some nude dancing. The bf for the Coyotes is only 600 baht but the mamasan said they might not choose to go with customers. In Play Skool the Coyotes get 23, 000 baht in salary but have to bring in 150 drinks a month and 50 baht will be deducted for every drink less than that. Most go-go bars set a quota of around 60 drinks a month. So a fair amount of pressure is on Coyote girls to get customers to buy them drinks.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago.

"Turn out the lights the party's over."

23k baht for a Coyote dancer? Unreal. And West is correct, with more and more Chinese and other Asians coming, it will continue to change, and not for the better.

[DRRonin]

I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?

I don't know if anyone other than The Arab understands his business model. There were a handful of guys in Sahara but none of them were buying drinks for the Coyote girls and people have told me that his bars are usually close to empty. Yet Coyote girls are not cheap so how can he be making money one wonders. I doubt if it is a religious jihad of sorts unless the Ayatollah has given him orders to clean up sin city. Others have mentioned the possibility that he is using the bars to launder money but from what illegal activity nobody seems to say. It is all very strange. To some degree Crazy House is the gogo that offsets this. Great looking girls and ready to go out the door with you in a heartbeat (and often back from their duties in two heartbeats) and the place is packed every time I go so I assume they are making money. How they are able to get so many good looking girls while most of the go-gos struggle to have just a few is a mystery. I think they are paying higher salaries to the girls than the other bars are. So far whatever they are doing is working. Even when the "mob" was practically on their doorstep until this past week and guys had to walk through them to get to the short time hotel, the place was still doing great business. So the old model still works fine as long as you can find the girls but finding the right girls isn't easy anymore it seems.

[Goatscrot]

At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market but maybe they figure along with mindless spending Japanese, there will emerge an unlimited number of Chinese who will just descend on Bangkok no matter what. Geographics and economics are going to work in Bangkok's favor as China becomes the #1 superpower. now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?

I would say the scales have been tipping for quite a while, but since the floods in '10 things have gone nuts.

Costs have been rising considerably. Rents are still a bit bargain as there is a glut of condos and apts on the market, but still more expensive than all but the very major and the ultra-hip US cities. Cost to buy is another story. You really can't get a good rental return here.

If you want to eat Thai food, it is still dirt cheap, although many places are 50% more than when I moved here 14 years ago. Quality non-Thai food is just about the same as it is in the US if not more. Alcohol, well even the local crap beer is expensive compared to the US. When I visit the states I get a great six pack of craft beer for about 8 bucks.

Want to go to Smith, Grass, or some of the better restaurants? You will drop close to 2k easy, more if you have drinks. Craft beer? Up to 300 baht a bottle.

But, yes, it is a world class city and we have many more benefits than we did in '99 in that regard.

P4P- Back in 99 a drink in most gogos was 80 baht. Now in many 180. Price of gals is also 100% up, more when you consider the currency moves.

Night out with the boys including dinner, drinks at gogo, lady drinks, BF (400 in Cowboy then) , ST room (300) , and tip to gal (500-1k) was around 3k baht. At that time less than 75 USD. Could easily be double that now (dinner, drinks and lady drinks 180, BF 600, gal 2000 ST, room 350). If one was just going FL then you could have a drink or two, grab a Thermae girl and be done for about 1. 5k max. 37 USD. Try pulling a Thermae girl for 500 bath now, or a BG girl. Most of the old hags there are asking and some getting 1. 5k ST.

Also agree with you on the Chinese. There will be more and more of them and it will have a huge effect on prices in all areas. We will see two grades of working girls: very high end and very low end. The "in the middle girl" who worked jobs but did not make enough to make ends meet and would head out to FL a few nights a month are a quickly dying breed. They make enough to sustain themselves now. The "scene" is no longer of that much interest to me, but it is still great to get our for an oily a few times a month.

It is really amazing how resilient this nation is. Every time there is a crisis, yellow at the airport, the Songkhran Riots, the Red Shirt takeover, the flood, the and the recent PDRC nonsense, I always think it will cause real problem for the economy, yet it really doesn't. There might be a very short bump, but Thailand roars back stronger than ever. Methinks one of the reasons it that they always run at near full employment. Won't get into the reasons for that.

[Mr Enternational]

At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market

Thank Buddha for free lancers! I wonder what percentage of the sex market gogo bars encompass.

[Hiihii]

Interesting way of summing it up. Of course one must also not forget its strategic location for being only a short flight away from reasonably priced monger destinations like Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia etc.

Doom and gloomers! As long as corruption is part of Thailand its mongering scene ain't going anywhere.

A reputable guy says crazzy h. Is top dog. WOW.

Latest on R4- just a place with many pretty girls and many not so pretty. One very popular small girl said she going for the freak look. I said why, you have many customers.

I can see it if you get no customers but then I'm not a girl.

[ConquerorVal]

Right now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?

Interesting way of summing it up. Of course one must also not forget its strategic location for being only a short flight away from reasonably priced monger destinations like Philippines, Indonesia, Cambodia etc.

[Western787]

I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?

Near term 2 to 3 years, yes, I think the market will offset this with new (true) Go Go's opening and offering barfinable girls. Short of the political mess and violence continuing (and scaring off tourists) and losing another high season, the mega trend (recently documented by Stickman among others) is going to continue.

You've got an underlying structural change occurring.

This is more than the "Arab" doing this, it has something to do with Thailand (especially Bangkok) moving toward 1st or 1. 5 world or thereabouts status, as the clubs are having trouble getting hot girls willing to be explicitly barfinable.

At Nana parking lot after clubs close, you will sometimes see 30 to 40 agency girls getting paid and readying for transport home. Point is the clubs like Fantasia literally cannot find enough hot girls willing to be traditional go go "working girls". If they could - they would, and the manager or owner there (a Brit or Aussie) pretty much admits this. He would much rather have non agency girls. But he has no choice.

Much of this could be about losing face and less girls (sort of the way G Club girls work under a pretense of sorts) willing to presents themselves as de facto hookers when they can instead just be "Coyotes" (who dance and sell drinks). Of course for some they got the semi pro option and doing it without making it so explicit and that market will continue.

At some point if Bangkok moves toward just " old fashion strip clubs with booze" (with less and less offsets)) of course they lose a lot of the sex tourist market but maybe they figure along with mindless spending Japanese, there will emerge an unlimited number of Chinese who will just descend on Bangkok no matter what. Geographics and economics are going to work in Bangkok's favor as China becomes the #1 superpower.

Right now Bangkok is a good balance between a world class city and many (moderate pricing) P4P options yet with a practically 3rd world cost of living - and the question is how long can that last?

[Paul Kausch]

HCoyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago.

I seem to remember hearing or reading the the "Arab," who is actually Iranian, is one by one taking over venues; and that his goal is to get rid of the "prostitution" aspect of the gogos. In other words, no more bar fines. He wants what I think of as old fashion strip clubs with booze. Anyone else hear anything about this.

I think it will be difficult to pull this off. If he temporarily succeeds someone will open a gogo, encourage bar fines and thrive; others will follow suit. Am I wrong to this way?

[DRRonin]

Have been hitting a few go-gos the past few nights. Went to Crazy House tonight. Easily the best go-go in Bangkok in terms of looks, no other go-go is in the same ballpark but I can't say I like the setup much as they have very few comfortable seats to watch the girls from. They really need to re-arrange the whole place and put in better seating. The infamous mamasan who so many have unkind words for padded my bill with an extra drink so take a close look. Apparently, they are now doing shows upstairs beginning at 10pm but I didn't stick around for it. It's a rare show that is worth sitting through as far as I am concerned. But they seem to work in getting guys in the door. I think Spanky's has some of the worst looking girls on the planet earth but it is almost always packed with customers when this girl takes me there to visit one of her friends and the only reason I can think of are the shows. And maybe the faux spanking.

After CH my friend and I walked down Soi Cowboy and were particularly enchanted by the Coyote girls outside of Sahara. I have avoided the Coyote bars in SC like a venereal disease but we figured what the heck, the girls are cute and it will only cost a beer. Which was 200 baht as it turned out. On the menu it states that the go-go girls can be bar fined for 800 baht. Not great but these girls were looking fine so I inquire from a service girl and then a mamasan about them. The service girl says the bf for Coyote girls is 7, 000 baht. I assume I have misheard her and ask again. 7,000 baht. No wait here it says 800 baht. She replies, that is for the go-go girls, not Coyote girls. Coyote girls are 7, 000 baht just for the barfine. At that point I didn't bother to ask how much they charged. I have to wonder if anyone has ever barfined one of these girls. Lady drinks were 230 baht. It turns out that they have a handful of go-go "girls" of which half of them were clearly lady boys and the females were not much better looking.

Coyote bars have pretty much taken over Soi Cowboy and are slowly making advances in Nana Plaza. Went to Wild Thing on the 3rd floor 2 nights ago. This used to be Tokyo Nights and before that Las Vegas. Now it is primarily a Coyote bar. For some strange reason it has never been popular even back when it was LV and had a bunch of good looking women. But I would say it has hit rock bottom now. One at a minimum expects Coyote girls to be somewhat attractive but most of these girls were awful, overweight and unpleasing to the eye. But from what I understand much cheaper than those in Sahara. 1,000 baht barfine and 2, 000 for the girl. Wild Thing also gets my vote for the worst music in any go-go and that is not an easy award to win. The dj seemed to feel it is necessary to overlay every song with the same bass beat that shook the room. I left with a headache. I often wonder, as a manager is it more important to make musical choices for the dancers or for the customers. The dancers seem to have won out because the vast majority of customers I see are 40+ and I could be wrong but blasting rap and hip-hop would likely not be their first choice. Erotica on the second floor is the only go-go I know of that still plays rock music. Unfortunately that is about the best thing going on in there. Coyote girls are also in Fantasia, Play Skool and tonight Mandarin upstairs introduced a small sampling of them. Mandarin upstairs will soon be re-opening the floor above and possibly introducing some nude dancing. The bf for the Coyotes is only 600 baht but the mamasan said they might not choose to go with customers. In Play Skool the Coyotes get 23, 000 baht in salary but have to bring in 150 drinks a month and 50 baht will be deducted for every drink less than that. Most go-go bars set a quota of around 60 drinks a month. So a fair amount of pressure is on Coyote girls to get customers to buy them drinks.

Between lady boys being in 7 bars I think it is now and Coyote girls slowly creeping in you have to wonder how long Nana Plaza will be a friendly place to visit and partake. It's not hard to see that this is the future and that within five years the go-go scene will be a very different place than it is today just as today is very different for the go-go scene from five years ago.

[Goatscrot]

Goatscrot,

I don't really get all of your post, but. If you went to an official dinner / business meeting / friends party or whatever with a bar girl then you definitely have certain problems and suffer of misconceptions. Everybody with education will immediately sense whom you are with there.

The point is: If you go there with a reasonably educated MidSo girl that right works her way up the latter. Nobody will sense the above. Still. It is possible, for me likely, that her interest in you is basically comparable to the interest a P4P girls would have in you (I tried to express this politely).

Giotto

Giotto, I would not disagree with you.

Being close to 50, I would not seriously date a women under 30. 35 is all the better. Established and with her own money, so that would kind of negate similar interests to P4P gals.

[Oosik]

i visited som's haven on thursday and friday during the early afternoon. not a lot of staff, maybe six or seven, but it only takes one, or sometimes two. or three in dire situations. i generally take the next in the queue and finally, after decades, the law of averages swung in my favor. thursday i had niew, a rather cute little thing with decent english and long light brown hair. she was wearing sort of a catsuit, but the body looked good except for the unfortunate acreage of tattoos peeking out around her neck. god only knows what all is under there. but a bj does not require that to be revealed, and she has a cute face, so i didn't have to close my eyes and imagine (choose one or more) kate upton, miranda kerr, or a peanut butter loving dog down there. good technique, not just the old miniature oil rig method, and good stamina. i'd have repeated, except. .

friday she had already been bf'd by 4 pm. bummer. so i went back to the queue thing again and did okay, though not another niew. fon is a rather tall and big girl, but not in the fat sense: just rather broad shoulders and a face to go with them. add blonde hair and blue eyes and you have the classic nordic look. her english wasn't as good, but that is of little consequence in the bj business. we used the end room so had the little sink, so my privates got properly bathed, but again wiped with the towelette nonetheless. maybe it is a germicidal thing. or it really, really stunk. again, great technique, though a lot more of the standard sucking, probably because there was a lot more time. the previous day had been remarkably fast by my standards (my standards usually require a calendar, not a clock) , maybe because of the eye candy, maybe because it was my first for this trip. with fon it was back to the usual, 'i think i can. i think i can. ' business. if blow job marathon were an olympic sport (and i think we should start a petition) , thailand would have a gold. good attitude, rarely coming up for air, just a few hand strokes on occasion. finally, i suggested going with the hand and baby oil method, and this brought results in a rather alarmingly messy manner: her, the carpet, the sofa, and possibly chiang mai. i tipped heavily.

[Giotto]

.

I dated a bar girl for quite a time when I first arrived. Even though she was always polite when I brought her to certain functions, events, or dinners, there was always looks, scorn, and I was judged by the company I kept. Of course that is not at all what ended the relationship, but when it did end I decided that if I was going to have another Thai girlfriend then she would have to meet certain criteria. Taking physical attractiveness and compatibility as a given, not having worked as a bar girl was number one (I say bar girl as was well stated one can never know if a gal had sex for money at some point). Having a family that was financially secure and was not a parasite looking for a "host" farang was second. Being a Uni grad, Uni student, or running a biz was third. Forth, which is the only one I a really willing to give some leeway on is a gal "having a bit." House, condo, land, etc.

Goatscrot,

I don't really get all of your post, but - if you went to an official dinner / business meeting / friends party or whatever with a bar girl then you definitely have certain problems and suffer of misconceptions. Everybody with education will immediately sense whom you are with there.

The point is: If you go there with a reasonably educated MidSo girl that right works her way up the latter. Nobody will sense the above. Still - it is possible, for me likely, that her interest in you is basically comparable to the interest a P4P girls would have in you (I tried to express this politely).


Giotto

[Giotto]

I think anybody with a brain (which may exclude several contributors here) would agree that P4P means exchanging sex for money. You could probably also include high-priced gifts as money. And that's fine. I have no problem with it. There is no point in self-delusion. One can be a prostitute without being a full-time prostitute.

But as far as I can tell, none of the "normal" girls I know have ever exchanged sex for money / gifts. They're not virgins by any means. But they don't hang out in bars nightly, they don't cruise pick-up joints on the weekends. They've never slept with a guy on the first date or had a one-night stand. They can number their boyfriends on one hand. And they all have high paying jobs and aren't looking for a sugar daddy. They wouldn't accept money if I offered it. Hell, on a relative scale a couple of them probably have more money than me. So, I submit that there is a very clear line between P4P and non-P4P. It's just some guys want to pretend the girl they give "gifts" to really isn't a hooker.

Phordphan,

Besides the fact that I don't have brain (of course not). I disagree.

Some exceptions exist, as you describe. The majority is different.

Giotto

[Giotto]

Fuck you, Giotto. And the flea bitten horse you rode in on.

It may surprise you to know that few girls will go to hooker areas, despite all of them knowing about it. Some are curious but would certainly never go there alone, some aren't even curious. I personally know both kinds. So, yes, having a quick escorted tour makes sense for some. Perhaps it's schadenfreude, perhaps something else. All I know is what she told me afterwards.

Phordphan,

I love you, too.

Nevertheless - think it through.

As for hanging around me, who knows? I gave up the bar scene several years ago, mostly because I got tired of the low-lifes who populated the scene. Guys like you and your GFs, perhaps? Guys like the OP who parades around with a hooker on his arm and wonders why locals give him shit? I'm sure none of my faves would have anything to do with me if I still frequented the farang night-life areas. I do know her comments concerning bar girls are reflected by each and every "normal" Thai girl I know. If your experience is different, so be it.

You gave up the bar scene several years ago? Then we are really happy that you still write here. Quite unusual that you did not lose your interest in this forum. And I am just one of this low-lifes. I assure you. Don't worry.

PS. Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much. You've made a nice living catering to this segment of the population. Does having your (former) clientele classified as "dirty" and "low life" cut a bit close to the bone?

Oh yes, my living was fantastic. In THB 6 digits losses every month made it paradise. Livingstone's was a money burning machine.

And I do not remember to classify my customers EVER as dirty. Low lifes - I met lots of them.


Giotto