Angeles City

[Feroxis]

Why is he overpaying? Its his first time in AC, he barfined 2 girls and tipped them both 500 pesos. The bar charging him twice was the bar screwing him apparently but he wasn't clear. The FL girl he agreed to 2000 and Fero gave her 3000 instead I don't that is so bad.

Well, to be fair, it was the girl screwing me, not the bar. The bar gave me the tab, including the barfine and the girl later decided to exploit the fact that I was new in town to claim it was for drinks only. I chalk edit down as my own fault for not checking the tab before paying, and for not checking the currency rates to see how much I was actually paying.

That said, I did find Grand Pharao rather pushy with regards to LD trying to push me into buying drinks for 4-5 girls at a time. In comparison Club Asia brought over just one girl, and before buying the first drink the mamasan clearly explained how much the LD cost and if I was sure I wanted to buy one. I appreciated this approach and are more likely to return, although the sheer number of talents in Grand Pharao probably will still have me return if in town.

I don't really consider the 500 p tip to be overpaying, from what I had read in advance that seemed to be the norm for LT in Angeles?

With regard to the freelancer, I clearly overpaid even though I can't say that I regret it much. I hadn't really done the research so I just took the 3000 barfine from the day before and deducted 1000 p for the bar cut. When I asked how much such she had gotten the previous times she said 3000, could be true, could be lies, but I didn't want to feel like a cheap charlie over 1000 p that didn't really mean much to me, so I figured whatever, here's 3000. I even gave her some chocolate on top of that increasing the total to around 3500.

Maybe I ruin it for everyone else, and I'm sorry if that happens. Reality is that in a week or two the girl will be broke again, and yes, she may expect and negotiate for 2-3000, but she will still be more than happy with 1000 p if it means being able to provide milk for her kid for another couple of weeks.

A good report highlighting mistakes is always helpful.

I use this forum as a way to prepare and know what to expect. Learning from others mistakes is one of the best ways to learn what not to do, and this is why I feel it's important to highlight any mistakes so they may help others avoid the same situation.

[Feroxis]

Not really a nice report.

First, if you barfine a girl you should at least cum twice! If I barfine a girl for 3000 I am cumming thrice at least. You should try to average 500-1000 pesos per time. Anything else is overpaying.

You are probably right, but I just don't have the stamina for a three-timer. I tried it in Singapore, and had trouble cumming at all the next evening, the 3rd time just felt like a chore. But yeah, next time I'll probably try going for twice at least as I'm sure I can squeeze in a morning quickie before they leave. Overall I felt that once was enough when having a new girl every day.

Why is overpaying bad? Well, barfines have risen about 50% in Angeles in the last 5 years. People will charge what people will pay. So, guys thinking it doesn't matter she needs it more than me, will in fact raise the price overall. You want to be nice take her shopping or buy her a gift, cash equals a hike in price but 1000 pesos for overnight plus some groceries for her family won't allow her to ask the next guy for 1000 pesos and some groceries. But 3000 pesos, in her mind will equal I can get 3000 pesos from the next guy. Tipping has already become the norm in Manila and if that happens in Angeles I am sure many guys will stop coming, like myself! If there was a set 15% tip I could budget it but every girl has a different idea of what the tip should be. It puts a real negative connotation on the whole experience. To be honest, I rarely discuss price with the girls and then after give them 500 pesos and some little gifts if I make them cum or 1000 pesos and no gifts if I can't make them cum. If I cum 3 times and she cums twice then I give 2000 and some gifts. Most girls want to see me again and are very happy with this. I rarely have found starfish in the Philippines (other countries yes) so the fact you didn't have one is nothing to report here.

With regards to bargirl tip I had read that 500 was the norm for bargirls for LT, is that not the case?

With regard to the semi-pro, you are probably correct that I overpaid. But I don't really regret it although I do apologize if I ruin it for everyone else. I tried reducing it slightly in Cebu, but still overpaid quit a bit. Next trip I may try to reduce it even more, although with just three weeks of vacation a year I value my time more than my money and don't mind overpaying a bit if it means less wasted time or less hazzle for me.

Not quite sure I agree completely with your calculation, as for me its more about the entire experience and not just how many times I cum or she cum. Even if I somehow ended up with no pops I would still tip if I had a good time.

ABC has a good buffet every night from 5:15 - 10 pm, other than that they are overpriced and do not have a great location. My hotel is equal to ABC and is only 2500 pesos a night or 10,000 pesos a week. Penthouse is only 3000+ a night with the best location and the most romantic 24 hour poolside roof dining in all of Angeles. The food is good and cheap and the staff is amazing. Also ATM's are a ripoff and 1 500 Euro note in your sock is equal to about 25,000 pesos. One in each sock is 50,000 pesos. Including hotel and food I usually only average spending about 5000 pesos a day. So, I hope this advice helps!

Thanks for the advice, what hotel is that? Do they have rooms with Jacuzzi?

One of the main reasons for choosing ABC was the free car service and the fact that it was the only one I remembered the name of. Made some last minute change to my plans due to Typhoon Ruby hitting Cebu and actually booked the plane tickets an hour before leaving and the hotel after arriving at Clark.

Any of the other hotels have a similar car service? Or any good reliable taxi services available? I guess it's not that much need for it if the hotel is within safe walking distance of Fields Avenue, but I still like to do other things during the day and early evening, like head over to one of the malls.

[Pantot]

It's not a myth. It may have no bearing on the actual price of business, but it certainly effect the girls' attitudes.

No one has has answered the simple question I posed.

In AC I assume one fact. The girl has no idea what your tip will be until she is fully dressed and ready to leave. So how can performance be affected?

If pouty lips as she heads off ruins your experience, well sorry. Stop promising tips in advance and your problems will evaporate.

If you are negotiating a tip beforehand in AC, you are obviously with a girl who doesn't want to go with you so you are sort of in a pleading mode. That's not necessary really, When I get the vibe the girl isn't attracted to me I move on- that sea is full of wiling fish. Promising more $$ up front won't increase the GFE with a typical first time AC BF.

If you are an expat comparing 2015 AC to 1990's AC (from what I have read) then yes the girls have more power over the BF experience.

But compared to the rest of the Phils, where the AC barfine + a 'big tip' is still the minimum up front for an attractive nubile female, its still a bargain.

[Member #4566]

A topic covered many times in the threads. RTTF.

Several money changers are located a few steps down the road from Margarita Station. Your hotel employee may be able to to direct you however the hotel won't give you a good exchange rate. Some people use ATM machines but they have a separate charge of perhaps 200 P. I was once strapped for cash and had to get a cash advance from my credit card. The credit card company dishonored my card because it suspected fraud on account of my PI location. Better to warn your credit card company in advance of your travel plans. . Oh and by the way, generally ignore the RTFF Patrol whose members troll the forum looking for opportunities to scold posters with a "RTTF" jibe.

[Mr Enternational]

Hell. The risk factor alone. Dictates an increase. In the past raids were fewer and only for UA violations. A bar simply paid and business as usual.

Now simply doing a BF can get a person jailed w / no bail, huge payoffs required or unlimited time in jail. One bar owner recently died while being held and another now has been in jail since last summer. Jail is no joke in the PI. Life as you know it has ended.

That alone is reason enough for bars to need cash reserves larger than before. Partly also for higher BF's.

Yet they stay in the business. The rewards must continue to outweigh those risks.

[WestCoast1]

It's not a myth. It may have no bearing on the actual price of business, but it certainly effect the girls' attitudes.

I'd agree. When tipping becomes the norm, attitudes get snotty. OTOH, barfine price increases and nice new establishments probably have more to do with an influx of well-moneyed (korean) guests, as opposed to tipping.

[Amjeck]

I agree.

Yes in AC the 'big tipper ruining it' is a myth.

It's not a myth. It may have no bearing on the actual price of business, but it certainly effect the girls' attitudes.

[Transporter]

Getting money is important to mongering LOL.

No money. No Honey!.

Unlike "MM" my country doesn't have large denomination as 500 eros. So got to use them evil ATMs.

I checked out BDO & BPI.

BDO ATMs also accept Cards with the following logos:

https://www.bdo.com.ph/personal/ebanking/atm-banking

BPI:

https://www.mybpimag.com/index.php?o...159&Itemid=189

Pantot I guess I'll have to use BDO also LOL.

You may want to make a trip to CiTibank as the max is 30000 as opposed to 10 or 15 like the others. Since the fee is per transaction, you could save a lot.

[AliasDonkey]

Getting money is important to mongering LOL.

No money. No Honey!.

Unlike "MM" my country doesn't have large denomination as 500 eros. So got to use them evil ATMs.

I checked out BDO & BPI.

BDO ATMs also accept Cards with the following logos:

https://www.bdo.com.ph/personal/ebanking/atm-banking

BPI:

https://www.mybpimag.com/index.php?o...159&Itemid=189

Pantot I guess I'll have to use BDO also LOL.

[FreebieFan]

I wouldn't be so sure. The Stardust is a Makati bar which has just opened in AC. Previously TAO. Its going to be exactly the same as the Makati bar. Show girls and BF prices START at 3000 p for the girls.

Yes and if you know Stardust in Makati (before, it was named Foxys, and the first Stardust was originally in the vacant corner lot that mysteriously burnt down) you will know that its a big space with a few punters and some ocassionally good looking ladies but generally not.

I'm not what Stardust brings to the AC table but it isn't exactly Spankys or Babydolls standards.

Stardust in AC might be decorating with a fine look, but theres hundreds of other bars with which it competes, and as said the Makati business model doesn't exactly set the world on fire.

I miss the old Foxys / Stardust that had two private rooms upstairs. One fine night, was with a mate celebrating his birthday in one of the private rooms.

We had four girls and all of us were basically naked.

Ordered some pizzas from outside and the delivery boy comes up to the private room to deliver. Look on his face. Priceless!

[Sir Lancelot]

Best time is early Afternoon to evening, after that pickings are slims. The earlier you get there the better.

Perimeter bars are indeed spread apart, I would suggest to take a trike from bar cluster to bar cluster.

Guys,

Thanks for replying (plus Socker via Private Message) - loads of useful info. Very keen for some afternoon action so will definitely pay some of the bars you mention a visit.

[Pip Jaeger]

Barfines have been going up not because of someone overpaying but simply because the cost of business has been increasing for the bar owners.

You forgot "PInoY LoGiK": Fewer customers = raise the prices.

[Pantot]

But the math does not bear their case out. The good tippers are actually subsidizing the cheap charlies. Case in point. Grocery stores sell 100 P14 cans of sardines at low profit. To make up for it and to stay in business they must sell 10 P55 cans of sardines at a higher profit. Without the over payer / big tipper prices would actually increase. As usual in any group the CC scream the loudest, use up the most resources and have the biggest entitlement issues. Pretty close to welfare mentality in the US.

Yes, perimeter road is good but please don't tell anyone. You will ruin it for us!

I agree.

Yes in AC the 'big tipper ruining it' is a myth. In AC its not possible unless you are a fool.

I was surprised to learn that in Makati these days, the John must negotiate a large tip in advance in order to get the girl. I have to say my info on Makati is woefully out of date. My first few trips to the phils I never even darkened the door of a bar. My calender was full of regular girls I met in yahoo chats and then asianbabecams and asiancammmodels. My first exposure to bars was P Burgos before I even heard of AC. The prices started at 3500 and the girls were alot of mommas and the mamasans waitresses and BG would swarm you and hound you constantly. I had maybe 2 barfines and they were lame and at that point I pretty much gave up on the Phils bars in my mind.

Then I met a girl online from AC and made a reservation at the Orchid Inn knowing nothing about Fields. This was when W Orchid was under construction so maybe like 2006? After I was done with her I decided to check out the bars. My God it was like night and day. The selection was 100 X better than Burgos and prices were a fraction and the girls were not aggressive at all.

Todays AC prices are still way lower than Maktati was 9 years ago. And the tip is up to you. Maybe Burgos is the wrong part of Makati, maybe the selection and atmosphere has improved. I don't know and I don't care, AC is still great.

Back to the 'big tipper ruining it' myth.

In AC its virtually impossible. I have never discussed a tip in advance ever. I pull the money out when she is ready to walk out the door. She has no idea if its going to be a P20 note or P5,000 (its not don't worry).

I don't understand how a hurts me or the market.

The real statement the complainer is making is. Hey don't make me look bad when all I give the girl is trike fare and airline peanuts or nothing at all.

For Americans its alot more acceptable the tipping because its part of our culture, I can understand how people from other western countries don't warm up to it as easily.

The higher tips keep the pressure down on the rising barfines as a percentage of the girls overall wage.

[Dg8787]

You realise this is going to outrage the 'don't-ruin-it-for-all-of-us-by-overpaying' gang?

One thing I like about AC is that despite all the efforts over the past decade or so to move the town upmarket, it still has a really lively lower end. I can afford pretty much whatever I like these days but I still enjoy the simpler, cheaper bars. Partly nostalgia (because that's the way they all used to be in AC), partly just that I prefer the lack of pretension, both in the bar and in the girls who tend to work there. Sure the big show bars on Fields have lots of babes, but their attitudes are seldom as nice as you'll find on Perimeter. And often the sex isn't as good either.

So yes, prices will always go up, and anybody who wants to stay in this hobby for the next ten or 20 years needs to work out a cashflow plan to make it possible. But I don't see AC becoming like, say, Makati any time soon, if ever. And thank god for that.

But the math does not bear their case out. The good tippers are actually subsidizing the cheap charlies. Case in point. Grocery stores sell 100 P14 cans of sardines at low profit. To make up for it and to stay in business they must sell 10 P55 cans of sardines at a higher profit. Without the over payer / big tipper prices would actually increase. As usual in any group the CC scream the loudest, use up the most resources and have the biggest entitlement issues. Pretty close to welfare mentality in the US.

Yes, perimeter road is good but please don't tell anyone. You will ruin it for us!

[ThatGuy865]

But I don't see AC becoming like, say, Makati any time soon, if ever. And thank god for that.

I wouldn't be so sure. The Stardust is a Makati bar which has just opened in AC. Previously TAO. Its going to be exactly the same as the Makati bar. Show girls and BF prices START at 3000 p for the girls.

When one High roller bar take notice. It not long for others to follow. Look at the hotels being built. Everyone can see, times are changing and they are looking to take AC upscale. Santo's is essential dead as far as ST bars. The term "Blow road" does not apply any longer. Expats are trying to keep cheap perimeter bars alive. But they are dying a slow death. Rents are rising. How long they can keep BFs and drinks cheap enough to satisfy that crowd is going to be the problem.

Makati prices will soon soar thru the roof. The PI is being touted as the next Gambling Meca. Stealing some market share from Macau. This in turn will also affect prices in AC. Also building Casino's on Clark.

Philippines Makes Play as a Gambling Mecca

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...41330278436226

caesars to build billion dollar casino in philippines

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...ppines-1-.html

Japanese Okada eyes 2015 opening of 2 billion dollar casino

http://www.philstar.com/business/201...ing-2-b-casino