Kyiv

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Too horny.

Honest man! Well, cab driver wanted to make a quick buck too. Was he telling the truth? As alluded earlier. Kiev is multi-faceted in its ways of separating us from hard earned cash.

Your attempts to concentrate on work certainly deserve respect. Iron will and incredible self-discipline- something I lack in Kiev. Am more of a free-lancer, going with inspiration.

Working in Kiev? While so many of them beauties are strolling around and are available within a phone call and less than hour? Tough call!

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Sorry, to beat a broken record, but I can not imagine what these girls look like at 600 and 800 UAH. Maybe you can get a 6 for 2000-2700...

Not everybody is that industrious to setup their own webcam. Usually new arrivals get lured in certain established structures, with 50% markup.

For 600-800 once in a blue moon you will get a sincere peasant girl from remote village, and incomparable entertainment during the first 2-3 weeks of her stay in Kiev. Then lady friends will explain her how to milk us better, and the magic pixie dust disappears in the air. Usually though for 800 UAH it's not even the looks, it's the attitude: ". Aren't you done yet?

In September 2016 for 1500 UAH / HR I had an intelligent gorgeous 175 cm tall beauty. I probably worked up a reputation with a certain consolidation provider, that worked mostly with students. Exchange rate hasn't changed much since, and in my book she was easily a 9, if not 10, -- the highlight of the whole trip! For me foreplay conversation, and the way she made love has been out of this world. Especially when in the heat of the moment she exclaimed: "For kissing it's 500 UAH extra! And I could only respond with a smile: "There are no pockets on me at the moment, would you take my word for it?" In my book real passionate tender kissing is so much more intimate than BBBJ. 2 hours + 200 UAH taxi = came down to $70/ HR - 1750 UAH. Chances of seeing one like that? Honestly, no higher than 20%. And if she feels that partner of the hour is suspicious, or nervous, or somehow doesn't admire her being exceptional, than forget about getting amazing happiness in return.

Don't forget to ask, and if lucky. She'll share direct phone number, and next time either she'll have 25% discount for you)) or she'll become even more accommodating, like coming to you on a short notice, at 7 am in the morning, before classes start at the University, and having aforementioned champagne and caviar for breakfast, and you'll teach her what is the true translation of English expression "morning wood".

There's a good song: "Diamonds and Rust" - I know at least 3 covers. The title itself explains a lot.

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What's a fair price to pay a taxi driver who takes you to an apartment, waits for you for an hour and drops you off home again? I gave him 200 uah last time.

Was he happy? $7.50/ HR seems more than fair for taxi waiting for you, not burning gas.

200 UAH is the rate of my designated tried-and-true driver pickup from the airport. It's about an hour, because he stops by on the way into the city to get me new SIM-card, for currency exchange, and at Bessarabsky market for black caviar and champagne (decadent, I know, but it is sort of my trip to Disneyworld). This driver always knows my flight number through Viber, and usually arrives just in time, even in case of delay, -- very reliable. I even transfer Western Union to him, and he makes reservations at higher class sauna in Vyshgorod (Sobi Club, wasn't bad, $300/ day with personal attendant at the super nice steam room, there was 2 of us in a house that can take perhaps 4 couples, but I wanted privacy).

Last time that driver also made a cool surprise for me. Brought a 20 yo friend of mine from previous visit -- in stockings, high heels, full makeup, and her own suitcase right there at Borispyl curbside. He knew I was going to see her for sure, yet I didn't realize she was that dedicated (I guess there's competition in Kiev). Her arrival certainly limited my diversity after checking in together, yet I didn't complain at all).

On another occasion in 2011, on the way to departure from the airport, I had a different, totally unknown taxi driver staying with my luggage for an hour outside of "Star Rhinoceros" (a great strip club at the time), while having good fun with Marilyn Monroe look-alike. It was cheap.

Try "red taxi" - no complaints. Basic rule is same as anywhere in the world: establish taxi fare before it gets going. With private drivers I always bargain. Red Taxi and Yandex send it in advance via SMS. Some cab companies charge by the route- end to end, which is good with Kiev traffic jams. Others do by time and mileage. You can also escalate red taxi for more money, sort of like Uber.

[Rugan]

Well I wanted to write: " but that's not always the case".

I can add that in one of these private flats 3 years ago, there were different prices for girls. So one of them wanted 600 UAH and another one 800 UAH. One girl, the prettiest, even didn't agree with a Cunilingus, even not with an extra. For the other one, that was included in the price. Girls have the right to chose also how much they want for BBBJ or even to decline. In Odessa this year I could find only 3-4 places up to 50 different places mentionning BBBJ including in the price.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience Volpone.

Well my current taxi / guide says he only knows apartments in the 1500-3000 uah range. He seems very invested in directing me towards the upper end apartments so I can only assume he gets a cut. I'm sure it's already been covered but if anyone cares to elaborate on how the guide / apartments relationship works that would be great. He took me to two places tonight. The first had two girls and was apparently 2000 uah for an hour. Neither were interesting to me. The second was 2500 uah. There were five girls to choose from. Sunday isn't the best night. Two were chubby and the other three were all pretty cute.

So tonight I paid 2500 uah and an extra 1000 uah for BBBJ. $130. The service was, as seems to be the norm here, excellent. I asked her if she kissed which was probably a dumb move as, of course, it turns out she does, but only for extra. Then she said the same for cunnilingus. I suspect giving her a kiss very early in the engagement, maybe even before she gets out of the lounge and into the room would be a smart move.

I'm remain very impressed by the quality of BJs over here. As someone who loves a long BJ this place is a heaven. Back in the FKKs in Germany I put significant effort into finding the girls who could give head for long time. Here it just seems to be a given that the BJ goes on for as long as you want. That in itself was worth the trip.

It was a real girlfriend experience too. I'm not sure I'll be able to go back to Western hookers after this.

So my question is am I overpaying for the apartments? I. E. Is my guide adding a fat slice on to the amount I'm paying at the apartment. Or, can I trust that the apartment's prices are fixed no matter if you're a dumb foreigner bought in by a taxi or someone with more noise?

I'd like to try another guide if someone is willing to share a number. While asking the bouncers at the club was a good quick way to find a guide they did a lot of hand waving about how the prices were going to be $100 *minimum*. With minimum repeated a lot in that kind of overexcited way of someone who has their mind on their cut from the deal. From what someone mentioned to me by PM it seems like $100 is the maximum apartment price, rather than the minimum.

In other news I've been having my PA find girls for me. She posted an advert saying we were looking for models. Which had no shortage of interest. So we've had one or two girls turn up each day for a brief interview. She is genuinely looking for models for a couple of her side projects so the ethics sits well enough with me. Then I've been following up with a message to the cute ones after the interview asking if they are interested in sponsorship. So far we've had one no, one yes who I will meet tomorrow and one who my PA pointedly points out gave an answer that was neither a yes or a no. You need to be careful with the Ukrainian girls not to leave them feeling like hookers, they don't like that. But they definitely want a bit of extra cash.

My view of Ukraine is still that it's a gold mine if you have the time to invest. By this I mean at least a month (bearing in mind that I only put an hour or two a day into expanding my mongering network here). Experience would make it less of course. I've been here a few weeks now and I'm getting close to having a girlfriend or two that I either keep sweet with gifts or pay a local-ish rate for. But it's been a time consuming process. If I was coming for less time the apartments would be the route I would go and I'd be expecting to burn $100 per girl, more if you like BBBJ. If I went down to the clubs after midnight and asked around I could get more for $30. But you need to know how to talk to Ukrainian girls for that.

I would still agree with what I see as the general message on the forum that Ukraine isn't a place for a quick visit. Unless you are willing to pay $100+ for an hour or $300 for places like Rio. But everyone who comes and pays that price does damage the local market. Interesting place. Definitely not as straightforward as I was expecting.

[LilJoey]

Hi, LilJoey,

This sort of engagement is much more interesting than wham bam thank you ma'am transactions you get from pros. My question is how much and for what do you pay in this sort of semi-professional arrangement? Did you meet only for sex or did she hang out with you for drinks, dinner, walks etc? I would appreciate if you could share some pointers as to how to structure the transaction.

Many thanks.

The sort of engagement I intended to present is simply typical of what is possible to sometimes find on mamba. Ru. The mamba website has undergone changes over the last few years, and what was true yesterday, may not be the same tomorrow. Nowadays there are many agencies lurking behind many of the profiles, especially the ones listing "looking for a sponsor". In the profile. But then again, many of the individual girls looking for a sponsor also list it in their profiles. So you need to judge who you are dealing with, when you receive their replies, and the nature of their ensuing conversation, or lack thereof.

The prices on mamba. Ru have been written about many times in this forum. My impression about the current status is that it is still possible to find girls that are happy with $100 for several hours (2-3 hours at least). And that a portion of the girls will only be happy with $150 for several hours. And yes there are some prima donna's who try to demand $200. And there are a small number who ask for $300, or even $400. The trick here is to get them to agree to enough time together, to bring down the unit price to a more reasonable number. For example, although there are girls in the nightclubs and on escort sites, for whom the sum of $300 is the rock bottom price they will agree to for two hours, if you get a mamba girl to agree to a whole night for $300, then you have a lot of hours to be with her, at least be able to fuck at night and in the morning, and your price per hour goes down significantly. $300 for 2 hours is a rate of $150/ hour. But $300 for 10 or 12 hours, including sex at least twice, can represent a much lower cost per sex event. You can drag out the sex each time for several hours, with oral sex both ways, Cuny and BBBJ, 69, and fucking different positions, with really no time limit, two hour or three hour sex session, as your own physical limitations dictate. And do it again in the morning, if you are capable. So $300 for a night like that, really isn't such a bad deal, especially if the girl is a real beauty. So think about what's included, before rejecting a $300 demand on mamba out of hand. Because if you can get a night such as described from it, it may be very worth it.

That being said, I usually first establish that the girl's demand for $300, is intended as the price for a night. Remember, that $300 is the average monthly salary for most in Kiev. So the girl is probably just throwing out this big number as a gamble, in the hopes that a dummy tourist will say yes. Don't be that dummy. If she wants $300, then she must give on the amount of time, and nothing less than all night, with sex again in the morning, makes any sense cost-wise. If she doesn't agree thatvher price is for all night, then pass on her. But once she agrees that $300 is her price for the whole night, then deflect that with the following approach, and say that a first date is not appropriate for an all night date, and it is more appropriate that your first meeting be for a short meeting of several hours. Then you are in a position to offer only a portion of the all night $300 price, for a session of several hours in the evening. In this way you may wind up with a $300 demand girl, agreeing to $150 for several hours in the evening for first date. Once you have fucked a girl the right way, and IF she likes what you did with her and enjoys sex with you, you may be able to negotiate better terms on repeat dates.

However, all this being said, the price range I feel is achievable on mamba, based upon my experience, is between $100 to $150 for 2 - 3 hours.

And let me tell you why this is better than other mongering destinations. Let's take the FKK clubs of Frankfurt Germany, for example. These are my favorite other places to monger. The price at Oase is 50 euro for half hour, which is 100 euro per hour. Add to that the entrance fee of around 70 euro. So if you contrast that with the prices possible in Kiev, you will see that Kiev is about HALF the price of the FKK clubs. In FKK club an hour is 100 euro plus entrance fee. In Kiev, if you got a girl for) 100 for two hours, the price is $50 per hour, which is half the price of the prices in the FKK. If you got a mamba girl for a few hours for $150, then if she only stays two hours, it works out to $75/ hour, which is around 2/3 the FKK price. And if the Kiev girl stays with you more than two hours, like three or more hours, then the price in Kiev is very much lower than in the FKK's. I know I'm not being exact because the euro and the dollar are not equivalent, and other fine tuning can be applied to this calculation. But the point remains essentially true. Kiev is a cheaper destination than even the vaunted FKK's and the level of beauty possible to attain in the Kiev girls is just as good as in the FKK's. Ukrainian hot girls versus Romanian hotties. Who is to say which is better? I love them both. But for unit price, Kiev is lower cost. So I decidedly do not dismiss Kiev as a mongering destination, because of the beauty there and the intrinsic value in it as a mongering destination. Kiev does require more effort to succeed on mamba, than going in to an FKK, where the naked hotties are all around you for the picking. But prices are better in Kiev.

Use your heads, and don't be deterred by the nay-sayers on this board.

LJ.

[Rugan]

What's a fair price to pay a taxi driver who takes you to an apartment, waits for you for an hour and drops you off home again? I gave him 200 uah last time.

[DramaFree11]

Sorry, to beat a broken record, but I can not imagine what these girls look like at 600 and 800 UAH. Maybe you can get a 6 for 2000-2700, so I would not get your hopes up. It just makes no sense if they are average to above average they have many options for clients. Hell they can go to Marriage Sites and get paid between $40-70 each date, even more depending of the negotiating skills. (No Sex) They can also do on-line chats and make decent money.

Well I wanted to write: " but that's not always the case".

I can add that in one of these private flats 3 years ago, there were different prices for girls. So one of them wanted 600 UAH and another one 800 UAH. One girl, the prettiest, even didn't agree with a Cunilingus, even not with an extra. For the other one, that was included in the price. Girls have the right to chose also how much they want for BBBJ or even to decline. In Odessa this year I could find only 3-4 places up to 50 different places mentionning BBBJ including in the price.

[Volpone]

Rugan, there is no precise price to get a decent girls in these private flats. However the higher you get in prices, you will usually get better quality, but that's not often the case. I went in about 10 private flats in Kiev and I saw some really decent girls for around 600-1000 UAH for 30 min. Or 1000-1600 UAH for 1 hour. That was the price 3 years ago. Of course without BBBJ. So now you must expect around 1000 UAH till 2000 UAH for average and good quality. Anyway the only way to know is to call them, to get the address and to go there. If you don't like what you see, you just leave. Be aware that some girls don't agree for 30 minutes.

Well I wanted to write: " but that's not always the case".

I can add that in one of these private flats 3 years ago, there were different prices for girls. So one of them wanted 600 UAH and another one 800 UAH. One girl, the prettiest, even didn't agree with a Cunilingus, even not with an extra. For the other one, that was included in the price. Girls have the right to chose also how much they want for BBBJ or even to decline. In Odessa this year I could find only 3-4 places up to 50 different places mentionning BBBJ including in the price.

[Rugan]

You are contradicting your own prior statement of "Anything over 1000 UAH is laughable". Either you were too horny (and she played well enough with your other head to extort this much), or too drunk, or you made up this story to see how Forum would react.

I should qualify that statement: anything over 1000 uah for 1) a girl who has a day job and 2) you're negotiating directly with her yourself. It just follows from the wages anyone outside of IT is paid here.

Does anyone fancy checking out Scarlet / Rio in the next few days? I'm not intending to make a regular thing of those prices but I want to check out the hottest girls, so my 1-10 calibration is better.

I'll be at Lviv fashion show after that if anyone is there.

[Rugan]

You are contradicting your own prior statement of "Anything over 1000 UAH is laughable". Either you were too horny (and she played well enough with your other head to extort this much), or too drunk, or you made up this story to see how Forum would react.

I myself have been in similar circumstances before departure to the airport, when after already having two different ones that day, I insisted on absolutely definitely having yet another right this very moment, just because. Didn't have enough time to think it through, and paid rather dearly. As it is random stochastic process, - they may not be the most beautiful and accommodating, but their handlers and dispatchers are great psychologists.

Too horny. It was also Sunday and my guide was telling me he only had a couple of apartments that had any girls in. One place for 3000 uah that had four girls in and one other one with just a couple of girls. After a week of playing the three dates game and other time consuming things trying to find a cute 19 yr old I was just loosing my price sensitivity for an evening.

What's annoying me about Kiev is I'm trying to focus on work and I don't want to be investing so much time finding girlfriends. I'm working on finding cunning ways to delegate that. It seems the 'finder' and the skipping all the pickup and dating is what you pay for. It's 50% to the house so a 2000 uah girl via a madam is really 1000 uah.

Thanks for the tips guys about avoiding giving out gifts too early.

[Volpone]

Cheers John. Is that covered or BBBJ? I hear BBBJ is usually 20-50% extra?

Rugan, there is no precise price to get a decent girls in these private flats. However the higher you get in prices, you will usually get better quality, but that's not often the case. I went in about 10 private flats in Kiev and I saw some really decent girls for around 600-1000 UAH for 30 min. Or 1000-1600 UAH for 1 hour. That was the price 3 years ago. Of course without BBBJ. So now you must expect around 1000 UAH till 2000 UAH for average and good quality. Anyway the only way to know is to call them, to get the address and to go there. If you don't like what you see, you just leave. Be aware that some girls don't agree for 30 minutes.

[Rugan]

Going rate is 1800 for decently looking girls.

Cheers John. Is that covered or BBBJ? I hear BBBJ is usually 20-50% extra?

[Hedonist]

Hi, LilJoey,

This sort of engagement is much more interesting than wham bam thank you ma'am transactions you get from pros. My question is how much and for what do you pay in this sort of semi-professional arrangement? Did you meet only for sex or did she hang out with you for drinks, dinner, walks etc? I would appreciate if you could share some pointers as to how to structure the transaction.

Many thanks.

Gentlemen, (using the term loosely),

In the midst of all the nay-saying and yay-saying about the merits of Kiev mongering, which are all mere opinions, and not supported with facts / photos, it might be interesting for you to read about a dream I had about meeting this hot-body Ukrainian woman in Kiev. She remains the most sexually incredible woman you could ever be with. And I just thought it would be useful to illustrate the possibilities in Kiev with actual facts. You can draw your own conclusions and opinions.

I will not go into detail about many dream sessions, except to tell about how she is exceptionally good as a sexual partner. While fucking, she will very quickly reach an orgasm. Her orgasms are intense and overwhelm her body. She squirts when she orgasms, or rather she gushes a lot of cum. And she can keep going, and has multiple orgasms, one after the other, if you have the ability to keep fucking her.

And for those of you who know how to use your tongue with great skill to pleasure a woman, this girl's body rocks when she explodes from good oral, and it takes her to levels of orgasmic ecstasy hardly even imagined by a guy.

What can I say? This girl is truly unique among most women, in that she very quickly reaches orgasm, has multiple orgasms one after another with a little respite in between, and gushes like a faucet cumming all over you if she is fucking you cowgirl or reverse cowgirl, or cumming all over the bed, couch or floor, as the case may be, in other positions.

I'm going to post a link to her current mamba. Ru profile here, so that all you sexually starved guys can see how sexy she is.

Mamba. Ru / mb1752312478/ albums.

Her personality is very conservative and Ukrainian good old fashioned family oriented. She has a sensitive heart. She is really a good girl. She is not a wild girl, or a hardened cynical prostitute who goes to nightclubs, and knows the professional prostitute scene. She is somewhere between a novice, and a semi-pro. But she is a sexual Amazon. A real Ukrainian woman. She needs some economic help. So she has turned to the opportunities in mamba, to find a sugar daddy or rich boyfriend to help with her needs.

Don't write to her if you are an abusive asshole who likes to demean women, or if you are a sexual pervert who thinks of women as chattel. Only gentleman should write to her, considerate and generous men whose only desire in the bedroom is to give great pleasure to the woman they are with.

Only men who want to experience an encounter with a woman who will make them feel like a sexual god, because she will orgasm so much from you, that your head will spin. And you will know that you have never been with a woman who could make you feel so glorious like this before.

No, I say, there are still wonderful gems to be found in Kiev. I share with you, this one. (The others I keep to myself to enjoy. You must prepare and put in the necessary preparation time and effort, if you want to achieve success in a Kiev visit.).

Enjoy.

LJ.

[Sorbonne]

Is it better than Mandarin?

Mandarin is closed. Scarlet indeed took place of Mandarin, with similar but more modern acts.

To answer your question, yes, I do think Scarlet is better. Mandarin was actually somewhat outdated stylistically...Call it Soviet.

I may be partial to Scarlet, because I took a girl there to Turkey.

[OlaOlsen]

Hello,

Anyone who have taken girls home from Dolls Club or Harem?

I have visited the clubs many times. I like it. Harem is nice.

I know it is possible to take girls home from this club but I never tried because of the 300 $ price.

Scarlet Club.