General Info

[Kabul Guy]

...... So, in considering whether to visit or to live here, the status quo has to be acknowledged and accepted, because it's not going to change meaningfully.

GE.

The problem is also that the existing construction now restrains additional widening of roads. I really doubt of anyone would tear down a high rise just to widen the road. The only solutions are more public transit to reduce traffic or to build either up or down to allow more lanes.

I was never in Boston during the Big Dig but as a construction professional I was always interested in reading about it then I recently worked with some engineers from Boston area who were involved in the project. It is a great project to have completed, Boston is now a relatively easy city to get around now, but it was many years of disruption, significant cost overruns plus a lot of eternal costs,. (lost time in traffic, businesses that located elsewhere to avoid the mess etc.).

I really don't think we want to see that here.

I'd take a close look at mass transit. Why not take the existing light rail system and make it a long loop instead of 4 separate systems? Two tracks with one having trains running clockwise the other counter clockwise. Then you could branch out from that loop, perhaps a couple diagonal lines and spurs to the outlying areas. Force all bus lines to relocate to depots located at the ends of the rail lines.

Have dedicated bus lanes and enforce the laws on them. They already have the yellow lanes on EDSA for public transport but it is not enforced.

Open up the number of Grab and taxi drivers. Currently there is a limit of 65,000 and about 10,000 of these are inactive. Issue anyone who wants to pay a relatively small fee and is otherwise acceptable to be allowed to be a driver. I spent over an hour yesterday trying to get a Grab driver.

The use of restricted dates based on plate number is a joke. I have a Filipino friend had 3 vehicles, his, his wife's and one that his two kids shared. He simply bought another with a plate number that allowed them to have 3 vehicles on the road daily, what happened is that his two kids each have a vehicle on weekends and one day a week when they can all be on the road. It actually increased congestion and took up a parking space on the street in front of his house. Another friend changes the plate number with black tape on his restricted day.

For airports I'd expand Clark and build a high speed link from there to a hub in Manila and on to the existing airport. Lots of cities have their international airport outside of the city. Edmonton Alberta Canada, Copenhagen Denmark and Reykjavik Iceland for three examples. Make the existing airport domestic flights only. (Perhaps private aviation and cargo flights to fill the capacity.).

In the short term start enforcing the traffic laws, have a public education campaign to make it the default behaviors to follow the traffic rules, put it in terms of national pride that Manila and the Philippines is a place of safe traffic. Use cameras with mailed out tickets and a punishment system that escalates quickly if fines not paid in the grace periods, up to and including confiscation of vehicle, loss of driving licenses and permits.

Have the Jeepney drivers re-pass their test on renewal. I read somewhere that about 90% of existing drivers failed the written test when retested.

[GoodEnough]

Recently sitting at a Manila Starbucks I grabbed a newspaper off the shelf and turned to the op / ed pages in the back of the first section. A lady wrote a good piece about Manila roads. A blurb went similar to this: "A single high rise building of just 12 floors will create about 1000 new jobs. Does anyone consider this in regards to widening the roads to handle the new traffic? Shouldn't the President (or someone in charge) put an immediate halt to building anything that brings more people into the area?" She's right, and one could extend her claim to include condo's and hotels. Her assertion that high rise building should be halted for a period of time is probably logical, but money interests might not allow that.

She's doubtless correct, and the situation is the same throughout the major cities. In Davao, where I live, there were no condos when I first moved here. Now, it's tough to drive a kilometer without seeing a high rise condo building, and there are more being erected all over the city. Also, I think that zoning laws are more of a suggestion, as there doesn't appear to be any enforcement at all regarding set-backs from the roads, number of parking places per square meter of construction or construction standards.

I should have also indicated in a prior post that there's very little enforcement of existing driving laws, leaving drivers free to act on whatever impulses they choose. Thus, blocking two lanes of traffic while you executive a left-hand turn from the right-hand lane is considered no big deal, as is choosing whatever lane you like on which to drive. The lack of any real enforcement compounds the problem though it's not a prime cause. Traffic management is another issue that doesn't seem to resonate much here.

There are long-term solutions to these problems, but I doubt they'll ever be enacted, just as there's been no action on the construction of a new airport and improvement of the air travel system though the need has been evident for a couple of decades. So, in considering whether to visit or to live here, the status quo has to be acknowledged and accepted, because it's not going to change meaningfully.

GE.

[Golfinho]

The only solution, and one that will never be implemented in my view, is an effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport.

You mean like the effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport you have implemented in your home town in america flyoverland?

[WestCoast1]

The real problem, at least from my point of view, is the dearth of efficient, modern mass transportation, both in Manila and in the rest of the country. There are no subway systems, for example, nor municipal buses with dedicated (and rigidly enforced) bus lanes, nor are there pull overs for buses or taxis. There's no modern surface light rail. So, the only real means of transport is the poorly-planned, over-utilized urban road system which is stressed to the breaking point. The only solution, and one that will never be implemented in my view, is an effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport.

GE.

Recently sitting at a Manila Starbucks I grabbed a newspaper off the shelf and turned to the op / ed pages in the back of the first section. A lady wrote a good piece about Manila roads. A blurb went similar to this: "A single high rise building of just 12 floors will create about 1000 new jobs. Does anyone consider this in regards to widening the roads to handle the new traffic? Shouldn't the President (or someone in charge) put an immediate halt to building anything that brings more people into the area?" She's right, and one could extend her claim to include condo's and hotels. Her assertion that high rise building should be halted for a period of time is probably logical, but money interests might not allow that.

[GoodEnough]

This appears that the planning inpits used did not result in an accurate forecast of eventual traffic, not an uncommon problem anywhere since better roads induces more traffic and this additional traffic is difficult to predict or the models used may not have accounted for the economic gains here in the last decade that create more private vehicle traffic and less public transport.

The real problem, at least from my point of view, is the dearth of efficient, modern mass transportation, both in Manila and in the rest of the country. There are no subway systems, for example, nor municipal buses with dedicated (and rigidly enforced) bus lanes, nor are there pull overs for buses or taxis. There's no modern surface light rail. So, the only real means of transport is the poorly-planned, over-utilized urban road system which is stressed to the breaking point. The only solution, and one that will never be implemented in my view, is an effective, inter-linked, system of mass public transport.

GE.

[Soapy Smith]

This appears that the planning inpits used did not result in an accurate forecast of eventual traffic, not an uncommon problem anywhere since better roads induces more traffic and this additional traffic is difficult to predict or the models used may not have accounted for the economic gains here in the last decade that create more private vehicle traffic and less public transport.

I assume that "inpits" was a misspelling of "inputs. " Alternatively, you may have coined a useful and appropriate new term. Inpits could be used to refer to all the factors or ingredients that go into a planning process in which, as a foregone assumption, the outcome will be even worse than the present situation. Hence the "pit" syllable of the word.

"Wicked problem" is a popular new term out there among some illuminati. It refers to big public problems that are presumably insoluble because, regardless what intervention is taken, some new problem pops up as a result, or some group comes forward claiming that the intervention has created an untenable situation for them. Thus, in theory, wicked problems go on forever. (Personally, I think the idea of wicked problems is a load of crap, but nobody's listening to me.) Your new word, inpit, may be particularly useful in the discussion of wicked problems.

BD and RK seem to have illuminated some of the particular inpits that are inherent in this bridge problem as a wicked problem.

[Red Kilt]

This was my thought, and it might apply to the bridge in question for which RK posted the link. PM seems to see the same issue as GE.

Further to the original post, the closure of the bridge has been delayed until January 2019 because of the approaching Christmas period when the volume of traffic on the roads around that time makes them become impassable (and impossible).

[Kabul Guy]

... So the problem is not one of lack of engineering talent or lack of appropriate construction standards, but one of corruption.

GE.

That is a problem here but I read the articles linked by RK as this particular bridge is undersized. It is only one lane each way and will be replaced by a bridge two lanes each way which on the north bound traffic (Makati to Mandaulyong) matches the feeder roads. On the other side it feeds into a two lane road so that will simply shift the bottle neck north. (This can be expanded but a couple small buildings will have to come down.).

This appears that the planning inpits used did not result in an accurate forecast of eventual traffic, not an uncommon problem anywhere since better roads induces more traffic and this additional traffic is difficult to predict or the models used may not have accounted for the economic gains here in the last decade that create more private vehicle traffic and less public transport.

[BrainDrain]

This was my thought, and it might apply to the bridge in question for which RK posted the link. PM seems to see the same issue as GE.

In addition to money being taken off the top by corrupt government officials, there may be further problems introduced if private sector contractors pay off the government inspectors to look the other way.

SO basically they will destroy this bridge and replace it with an equally poor engineering job which will last for another 10 years.

Surely it would be better to accept that the various introduction fees need to be paid. This government workers and officials are not compensated through a decent wage so they have become accustomed to the kickbacks.

They should budget +20% now for a bridge that will last 100 years instead of paying for a new one every 10 years.

Bd.

[Soapy Smith]

So the problem is not one of lack of engineering talent or lack of appropriate construction standards, but one of corruption.GE.

This was my thought, and it might apply to the bridge in question for which RK posted the link. PM seems to see the same issue as GE.

In addition to money being taken off the top by corrupt government officials, there may be further problems introduced if private sector contractors pay off the government inspectors to look the other way.

[PedroMorales]

Golden Gate Bridge opened May 27,1937. Sydney Harbour Bridge opened on 19 March 1932. Brooklyn Bridge opened on May 24,1883. London's Tower Bridge opened on 30 June 1894. New York's George Washington Bridge is the busiest bridge in the world. It was opened on October 24 1931. Thew world famous Howrah Bridge in Bengal, West India, was opened on February 3, 1943.

Though the Ponte Morandi was opened in Genoa, Italy on 4 September 1967, the bridge partially collapsed on 14 August 2018, killing 43 people. Sub-standard materials supplied by the Mafia, who would find the Philippines and their bridges too corrupt for them, are the suspected culprits.

If you want standards, avoid the Philippines (and Italy).

[GoodEnough]

I have worked with Filipino engineers in Afghanistan on major construction projects. They are as good if not better than a lot of North American engineers and follow north american construction standards completely. One friend is a structural designer and she is now working on the design of some major projects to be constructed in the USA.

They are capable of following North American / European construction standards. I believe that they generally do on major projects that are inspected and controlled. Small buildings are your local guys just trying to make a buck with poor workmanship standards, just like I see at home in a lot of residential construction where the inspection is not that stringent.

I was staying a few days in an Airbnb that looked down on a high rise just starting construction, I say work that looked from a distance to be well organized and appeared to be progressing well. I did see field tests being done on the mixer trucks as they came into deliver concrete. There were inspection and delivery tags on the rebar assemblies as they were delivered. Overall it looked like a normal major construction project that we would see back home.

Just as you cannot extrapolate the shoddy workmanship and failure to follow design standards at home in the residential / small commercial market, you cannot make the same extrapolations here from small construction to major projects. There will be some size threshold that once exceeded the inspection and quality control will become much stricter and they will generally follow proper procedures, just as they will in NA / Europe. I would guess that that threshold is much lower in NA / Europe than here though and would also extend outside the major cities more than here.

I've worked with engineers here for years on various development projects and I don't dispute what KG said regarding the quality of the engineering. I have learned though that it's important to differentiate between construction projects, whether large or small, financed (and overseen) by private developers and development agencies, and projects financed and implemented by DPWH or other government agencies. In the case of the former, when not only construction standards, but also the flow of money is controlled directly by non-government entities, the quality of works is typically fine: appropriate quantities and qualities of materials are used, and projects are built to spec. In the case of government financed / supervised works however, the outcomes can be quite different. In many such cases, by the time politicians have received their cuts up and down the line, there's simply not enough money to build to spec and corners start being cut. In such cases (at least with roads) quality is always sacrificed, at least in my experience. So the problem is not one of lack of engineering talent or lack of appropriate construction standards, but one of corruption.

GE.

[Kabul Guy]

But is 50 years a North American / European standard? ......

What I am getting at is the question of construction quality standards. Presumably ready mix is used for roads and bridges, but under what quality standards? Slump tests? Rust-resistant coatings on ironwork? Inspection of materials and workmanship? Etc.

Pedestrian walkway? Are you holding your breath?

I have worked with Filipino engineers in Afghanistan on major construction projects. They are as good if not better than a lot of North American engineers and follow north american construction standards completely. One friend is a structural designer and she is now working on the design of some major projects to be constructed in the USA.

They are capable of following North American / European construction standards. I believe that they generally do on major projects that are inspected and controlled. Small buildings are your local guys just trying to make a buck with poor workmanship standards, just like I see at home in a lot of residential construction where the inspection is not that stringent.

I was staying a few days in an Airbnb that looked down on a high rise just starting construction, I say work that looked from a distance to be well organized and appeared to be progressing well. I did see field tests being done on the mixer trucks as they came into deliver concrete. There were inspection and delivery tags on the rebar assemblies as they were delivered. Overall it looked like a normal major construction project that we would see back home.

Just as you cannot extrapolate the shoddy workmanship and failure to follow design standards at home in the residential / small commercial market, you cannot make the same extrapolations here from small construction to major projects. There will be some size threshold that once exceeded the inspection and quality control will become much stricter and they will generally follow proper procedures, just as they will in NA / Europe. I would guess that that threshold is much lower in NA / Europe than here though and would also extend outside the major cities more than here.

[Soapy Smith]

Typical design life span of a bridge is 50 years but they can last a lot longer than that if maintained.

(snip)

I used to walk across this often on my way to and from Mandaluyong City to Abacca Spa so I hope that they put in a proper pedestrian walkway,

But is 50 years a North American / European standard? The comparison may be inappropriate, but I have watched Filipinos constructing a small concrete block building under government contract. The precast blocks were far from uniform in shape, and the workers' standards for mortar left numerous very large gaps among the blocks. Eventually the gaps were concealed by a stucco covering inside and out. I don't recall whether they dropped rebar into any of the vertical columns in the blocks. And if they did, were they overlapped and wired together?

As is often done in the Philippines, mortar was mixed on the ground, since they didn't have a concrete mixer. They mound it up like a pile of mashed potatoes, make a depression in the middle for adding water, and then work it up with a hoe. Workers come by and grab mortar on their mortar boards, and when the mixed up mortar runs low, they add water, sand (or maybe it was some other other kind of aggregate) and dry mix as needed, and work up some more. You have to wonder about what gets mixed in from the ground in addition to mortar dry mix, and (presumably) washed sand. And as to consistent stiffness of the mortar, it's anybody's guess.

What I am getting at is the question of construction quality standards. Presumably ready mix is used for roads and bridges, but under what quality standards? Slump tests? Rust-resistant coatings on ironwork? Inspection of materials and workmanship? Etc.

Pedestrian walkway? Are you holding your breath?

[Kabul Guy]

I don't know what the normal usable life of a bridge is, but it sure ain't 9 years. The construction I'm guessing was crap, and now they're afraid of a serious mishap.

....

Typical design life span of a bridge is 50 years but they can last a lot longer than that if maintained. A lot of bridges are replaced because the traffic conditions change and they are undersized for the new demands. Also lack of maintenance or a disaster (accident or natural) can shorten a bridge's lifespan significantly.

The article that RK references says that it is due to the bridge being undersized for current traffic demands, it will expand from a 2 lane to a 4 lane bridge.

I used to walk across this often on my way to and from Mandaluyong City to Abacca Spa so I hope that they put in a proper pedestrian walkway, The old one was two narrow to meet anyone without someone stepping onto the roadway. I liked walking on the left bank of the river since it was more shaded but the right bank has a nice walkway to Makati Ave bridge.