German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Mr Ho]

In my experience, WGs are I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).

Exactly, this is one of the reasons why I lost interest in normal dating scene. Prostitution industry began to provide normal beautiful girls who live double life of all kind. I even managed to fuck normal models that are now famous enough to be in TV when she was much younger and not famous enough with limited money, now I see her in tv and make me proud of my decision to go out there to monger. Also some porn stars before they went on to porn and became famous in porn industry etc. I especially like fucking university students though, it is like fucking egg of something in this world before too matured, I think university students are the best season of girls life to fuck them.

[Mr Ho]

And I might add that Artemis owner allowed the WGs to be a part of the club's culture-making is itself that the owner makes the club culture, because he could let this not happen legally if he wanted.

Well, it is in part defense mechanism of the owner after new law not to involve too deep with girls management because whole thing with Artemis was example arrest to all FKK in Germany I think. All charges against owner was later dropped after multiple court cases, but the way how they raid the club with few hundred cops, some totally geared up like military operation was not necessarily at all, it was the show for media, which worked, and all those lies media wrote about Artemis was also scary how media in G7 countries are still like that, you know openly write total lies about thing they want to attack, it was beyond exaggeration how they described Artemis.

So naturally, if you are club owner, you will be be careful after new law was installed, so thing like what I wrote above won't happen to you, so it really did give some power or freedom to girls in club to do what they want. It still is fair enough and reasonable in FKK though, most girls are fair enough. Arguably LOL.

[Takedown]

Pointing out that there are predatory instincts left in us from before we invented these things is just that. Pointing out a problem. It is not the same as saying it is the way to go forward. I have a feeling certain people here on the forum forum complaining about 'support groups' and stuff just fails to understand the discussion.

Perhaps your generation is getting too old to solve these issues, and we have to wait for the next. A younger brother generation. LOL!

A problem that evolution has yet to root out is arrogance, probably because it can be useful. I do not despise arrogant men, so long as they have some reason to be; however, what seems to be more common is unjustified intellectual arrogance, self perceived intelligence. What's funny is that these perpetrators never seem to have the metrics that would serve as proof of intelligence. Things like using the perceived intelligence to achieve financial success or perhaps professional success could serve as proof of intelligence. Sadly that is not what often happens. Perhaps emotional intelligence could lead one to achieve power, societal positioning, or develop social skills, alas also no. What is astonishing is that these arrogant men who have achieved so little in life maintain their empty confidence. It's a testament to the human mind's ability to cope with suffering and emptiness.

[Takedown]

I think it's a simple inarguable point that the general prostitute population is not representative of the female population all over the world, if not just for the mere simple fact that most prostitutes do not have the professional training or education of average western women. The Romanians might be the most "normal" of all prostitute populations in comparison to the average woman in their culture. Latin American and Southeast Asian prostitutes are certainly not representative of their cultures. Heck, German prostitutes are not good representatives of German women.

It seems to me, to make and believe this point, one must have very limited intimate experience with modern, real world women. It's consistent with the traits shared by the triad here.

In my experience, WGs are a "good random sample" of the female population in terms of the traits they exhibit. But it depends where you monger. In certain sex-hostile societies like the US and Iran perhaps your suggestion that WGs are freaks is true. They have to be super-hardened to survive. But the US is not a "good random sample" of the global population. In other parts of the world, women move freely between prostitution and other professions. I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).

[Pistons]

And predatory men are the opposite of safety.

This kind of Ayn Rand, "survival of the fittest," quasi-scientific, libertarian, "nasty, brutish and short," so called evolutionary (but not really) thinking is not science. It's projection. It's the projection of fear and anger, and it offers false cynicism disguised as (fake) fact-based sophistication.

To be sure there are some women who seem to actively seek out abusers. They seem to relish the role of being prey. But they are the opposite of the norm. They are, in fact, psychologically damaged and exhibit radically atypical behavior.

I know I mentioned your comment was good. But don't get too optimistic now. Cause the 3rd and 4th paragraph was rather bad. 5th one was good again. So lets start there. You basically admit that there is a psychologically damaged part to it. While my suggestion, backed by science is that this is a trait that has almost completely taken over the subconscious for the majority of women.

It is not a quasi science. It is shown in pregnancy ratios. And you cannot fake a pregnancy! I will tell you what you can fake. You can fake a petition! So a petition is true quasi science. Especially to politically ladenned as this issue!

Yes, predatory men is the opposite of safety. But men became predatory due to the shortcomming of pregnancies. The most predatory of all great apes are the gorillas. And you see that in hiw big they are. And how brutal the smaller beta males [CodeWord123] the females. It takes 12 years between each pregnancy a gorilla female can have. And when sex means pregnancy. And in the animal world, sex is an instinct fir making babies.

[ExpatLover]

In my experience, WGs are a "good random sample" of the female population in terms of the traits they exhibit. But it depends where you monger. In certain sex-hostile societies like the US and Iran perhaps your suggestion that WGs are freaks is true. They have to be super-hardened to survive. But the US is not a "good random sample" of the global population. In other parts of the world, women move freely between prostitution and other professions. I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).

Unfortunately I can't share the same experience, 95% of the escort I met (300+) don't have a normal life or a normal job, they tell that story but in fact after meeting them several times you just get the reality they are not students, air hostesses. But just prostitutes switching from FKK to escort in one of the big cities in Europe, when they start to be a bit older after 30 most of them have the face of a prostitute and so easy at least for me to recognize them in a shop.

[Polyamorist]

But women who turn to prostitution are not a good random sample of the population. They frequently have control issues and daddy issues and histories of (physical, mental, drug) abuse and so on. They are accordingly individuals who have been driven to the thin tails of the behavioral bell cure.

In my experience, WGs are a "good random sample" of the female population in terms of the traits they exhibit. But it depends where you monger. In certain sex-hostile societies like the US and Iran perhaps your suggestion that WGs are freaks is true. They have to be super-hardened to survive. But the US is not a "good random sample" of the global population. In other parts of the world, women move freely between prostitution and other professions. I regularly fuck WGs who have "normal" lives as students, air hostesses, hairdressers, receptionists, fitness instructors, sommeliers, security guards etc. Furthermore many of them seem to me more normal, human, and less mercenary than "respectable" women I used to know in corporate jobs in major American cities.

That reminds of a hot girl in Europe who lives a sexy double life. In one life she works in a respectable bank and as a financial consultant. In the other life she is tuting it up in grand style, doing pole dances in front of leering Americans in a high-class FKK. Whenever I talk to her, I find it easy to imagine her in either role. After all that's capitalism: getting fucked (the principle famously discovered by the economist Scarface).

[Bfsie]

In some clubs girls take big part in making club culture too. Like at Artemis, owner had good control over girls in positive sense of word, but after massive raid and arrest, girls tend to be more free and took control of the club culture at Artemis.

And I might add that Artemis owner allowed the WGs to be a part of the club's culture-making is itself that the owner makes the club culture, because he could let this not happen legally if he wanted.

[Mr Ho]

Like it did for Ron Jeremy?

I think Ron Jeremy is there to feed the demand for washed out monster fucking young babes kinda thing and his appearance may represent many american porn viewers, obesity type.

Pierre Woodman at his peak of castings are the way I like it in FKK and escort.

[Mr Ho]

You may be right about Artemis since I don't know it. But I can assure you that this kind of the situation will not happen in an ethnic-German owned club. My view that the owner makes the club culture is in the context of the ethnic-German owned clubs vs the non-ethnic-German owned clubs and that the owner of the ethnic-German owned club makes his club culture.

Well, the owner is Germany born Turkish owner, some say they are Kurdish, who knows, but they are not owned by Germans.

Owner may want to make club culture, but I know there are some price cartel between girls in some clubs like do not do this and that for 50 euro 30 min session etc, kind of fixed rule between girls kind of thing.

I agree with you about owner make club culture in some clubs like Globe Zurich, I only been there once, but it is as they say for service and owner put such rule in exchange for higher rate and it is deliver to clients as owner want with my limited experience there. It is Swiss owner too I think.

[Bfsie]

In some clubs girls take big part in making club culture too. Like at Artemis, owner had good control over girls in positive sense of word, but after massive raid and arrest, girls tend to be more free and took control of the club culture at Artemis.

You may be right about Artemis since I don't know it. But I can assure you that this kind of the situation will not happen in an ethnic-German owned club. My view that the owner makes the club culture is in the context of the ethnic-German owned clubs vs the non-ethnic-German owned clubs and that the owner of the ethnic-German owned club makes his club culture.

[Mr Ho]

For its time, it was ingenious yes. But times, and technology change. So I am not so sure it is the perfect way these days. But that would just be experimental theories. Normally these structures last way beyond its times. But now we start seeing fractures in it. In regards to #metoo and feminists ideas to bad p6 for example. And that is where I kind of see pure monogamy as the base problem. Because some men will always be left out. Thomas Aquinas wrote about p6, and I suppose more people should read what he wrote.

Monogamy sound very romantic thing because we are raised that way through our home education, movies, TV, radio, in school, religion and so on. It was conducted this way to serve interest of many parties including general public, society and government etc. It was good for everybody when information and entertainment was limited.

However, time changed in recent era. Now some of us men knows that there are other ways for happiness in this modern world. It is less limited to live like king or maharaja or so called ruling class live many years ago. Also now, with invention and liberal access to once military technology called internet, we can communicate to each other about many subjects, which include sex life without disclosing our identity, this was big shift also I think. There are still many people even on this forum, who are still strongly boxed in with certain set thinking that are installed as we grew up. It maybe due to self righteousness or lack of knowing themselves or not able to see themselves or think for themselves.

I would say, we now finally live in the world where we could be more or less free, even with our sex life if we are willing to explore it, so I would say, let explore it and enjoy freedom instead of boxed in the set ideology that has been enforced for many centuries. Even with feminist pressures, BBBJ law etc. , we men are free now as we have ever been. Sex revolution happen slowly and it got its up and down, but now we have won our freedom more or less. I would prefer it if it become even more liberal to serve my interest as monger, but I cannot complain at all about current situation.

[Pistons]

The "big evolutionary picture," as I pointed out, is that the evolutionary adaptations that yielded man from pre-man were in the direction of enabling, rewarding, and expanding cooperative intelligent behaviors. Humans didn't develop language so that men would become more predatory, and women more like victims. Humans didn't develop empathy and a capacity for theory of mind to become more predatory. These breakthroughs in cognition contribute to a move AWAY from predation.

Exactly! I liked this post of yours. At least the parts where you stayed away from shaming illusional traits you project onto the discussion.

So, then humans should be able to solve these problems we are faced with as a society. Such as #metoo. Such as trafficing, prostitution. Such as child abusers etc etc. But we don't seem to be! We have cardinals in the vatican abusing chior boys! That is where we are today with these great inventions of language, empathy, religion (cult behavior and box generalizations) and cognition!

So how would you solve these things?

Pointing out that there are predatory instincts left in us from before we invented these things is just that. Pointing out a problem. It is not the same as saying it is the way to go forward. I have a feeling certain people here on the forum forum complaining about 'support groups' and stuff just fails to understand the discussion.

Perhaps your generation is getting too old to solve these issues, and we have to wait for the next. A younger brother generation. LOL!

[Pistons]

However, this almost brainwash conducted by society to masses are good thing to sustain society. Without it, society won't be able to sustain its social securities, balance etc. Whoever thought about this system is genius and they did allow escape path, where we mongers can play and be free too, so it is all fair enough system if one can think for themselves and have will to explore it. I guess the ones who made this system too wanted to do that, so left the escape path.

For its time, it was ingenious yes. But times, and technology change. So I am not so sure it is the perfect way these days. But that would just be experimental theories. Normally these structures last way beyond its times. But now we start seeing fractures in it. In regards to #metoo and feminists ideas to bad p6 for example. And that is where I kind of see pure monogamy as the base problem. Because some men will always be left out. Thomas Aquinas wrote about p6, and I suppose more people should read what he wrote.

[Neurosynth]

It certainly makes nonsense out of game theory or any theory that assumes all parties are seeking the best deals for themselves. You have to widen the context beyond immediate selfishness and see the big evolutionary picture.

....

The "big evolutionary picture," as I pointed out, is that the evolutionary adaptations that yielded man from pre-man were in the direction of enabling, rewarding, and expanding cooperative intelligent behaviors. Humans didn't develop language so that men would become more predatory, and women more like victims. Humans didn't develop empathy and a capacity for theory of mind to become more predatory. These breakthroughs in cognition contribute to a move AWAY from predation.

And while it's true that women still prefer men who have (material, bodily, cognitive) resources to create a safe environment for raising children, the point is that women (indeed all humans) want safety. And predatory men are the opposite of safety.

Now, of course, specific women may have distorted behaviors and / or cognition in the other direction. But women who turn to prostitution are not a good random sample of the population. They frequently have control issues and daddy issues and histories of (physical, mental, drug) abuse and so on. They are accordingly individuals who have been driven to the thin tails of the behavioral bell cure.

This kind of Ayn Rand, "survival of the fittest," quasi-scientific, libertarian, "nasty, brutish and short," so called evolutionary (but not really) thinking is not science. It's projection. It's the projection of fear and anger, and it offers false cynicism disguised as (fake) fact-based sophistication.

To be sure there are some women who seem to actively seek out abusers. They seem to relish the role of being prey. But they are the opposite of the norm. They are, in fact, psychologically damaged and exhibit radically atypical behavior.