German FKK Clubs - Lounge and chat area

[Bfsie]

With regards to whether the WG's entrance fee should be waived. I think that it is not that simple and several points need to be considered:

1. The owners of FKK clubs invested a lot of money to the clubs. A good size of club can easily cost several million euros. I heard that Artemis costed its owner over 10 millions euro. So every year they need to have profit of certain percentage of investment as investment return. It is not like mom and pop store whose owner would probably be satisfied if he can earn several thousands euro per month. Let's say the owner conservatively wants 10% of investment as profit each year and if the FKK club costed him 5 million euro, so he wants 500K euro (5 millions X 10%) each year as profit. IMO, 10% return on investment is not too greedy (and also see my second point).

2. The establishments like FKK in sex industry is much more vulnerable to be closed down by the government than normal business, due to its nature of business dealing with prostitutes. So the return on FKK investment should be much higher than the return from normal business to cover the risk being shut down prematurely.

3. Current FKK club format is well tested format financially. I am pretty sure that during early stage of FKK club development the owners of FKK clubs already tested various formats including the format of WG's entrance-free you guys discussed about. By the way, don't hope WG's free entrance because, in my opinion, the owners will certainly levy the loss of WG's entrance fee on mongers by asking WGs to pay 50% (or XX%) of WG's session income to them like normal brothels, this will surely raise (possibly double) the session price for mongers and the mongers still have to pay their entrance fee.

[Bfsie]

Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being... Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.

His problem is that he is a [CodeWord910] who is sexually attracted (and addicted) to girls (or boys) under 18, so FKK clubs wouldn't help him, nor the girls below 18 in Europe because the American law in terms of [CodeWord910] states that any American who has sex with a girl or boy under 18 is punishable in USA regardless of which country it happens in. An American better not be a [CodeWord910] because the punishment for such a sex crime is very severe and he might also be killed in the prison by his fellow inmates if he is an ordinary man and usually not well physically protected unlike Epstein. I think Epstein will mostly likely spend the rest of his life in prison if next week the judge denies his release on bail pending his trial.

[Pessimist]

Interesting discussion about girls' entry fee and how that may be impacting service levels. I think many members made some very valid points. I think Optimist said 25 goes to the government as some sort of license fee? Did that amount change / increase over time? I think it is not reasonable to expect that clubs will lower girls' entry fee to zero because they need to reimburse the government for 25, and also they incur real expenses for food, drinks, other amenities in the club — same amount as they incur in the case of male guests. You can argue they are charging men and women too much entry fee, and whether that is a good argument or not, they do have real expenses and the club managements are not in the charity business to be providing free services and food and goodies to all and sundry.

It would be interesting to compare girls' entry fee amounts in a given locale and see whether differences in those amounts lead to any measurable differences in service levels. For instance, if a club charges 75 and another club nearby charges 100, the girls at the former have a lower threshold to cover their costs. Is there any evidence that girls at that club feel less pressured and hence provide better service?

Clubs can always lower the girls' entry fee to gain market share if they think it is an effective ploy. If they lower from 100 to 75, they can in theory attract more girls which in turn attracts more guys over time. Why are they not doing it? Perhaps they do not think it will work as a good business tactic? Or are these clubs run by managements who are so clueless that they do not know what is good for them? For example, you would not expect Sharks to lower its fee because with the way they currently are, they are still presumably making a large amount of money. But you might expect one of the laggard clubs in the Hessen area to at least try it. Oase lowered fee for men through early entry etc, so we know clubs are aware of the interplay between entry fee and volume growth. If they did not try this in the case of WGs yet, they probably know something we don't.

We also know some new clubs in the early days of the club did allow girls to work with very low entry fee. So, clubs have tried this tactic sporadically but not as a ongoing business strategy.

If the real goal of a club is *long term* profit maximization, it should do what it can to achieve its objective. Of course, some clubs may have other motives, especially those managed by questionable owners in which case their objective may not simply be profit maximization but other motives, potentially illegal. We simply do not know, unless you are an insider.

However, what I do know is that the fact that these entry fee structures have been in place for a long time and nothing much is being done to lower them over time, it is unlikely that they will listen to the pleas of a few people here and lower the amount or remove it altogether. That seems like wishful thinking to me.

[Sirioja]

An interesting observation about entrance prices for girls. Its not just in German FKKS too. A number of girls at Aphro have told me they left Globe because the working conditions were too strict and the club took too much of their earnings. I didn't even ask if the girls also have to pay. But I suppose the owners bottom line is to maximise their profits and, for now, there is a steady line of Romanian girls willing to take the place of any girls who don't like it both in Germany and Switzerland and Austria I guess.

Aphro level of looks is lower on average than Globe. Most of Aphro girls can t work at Globe, no Megan, no Joana at Aphro. I think Globe girls pay about 30 from 140 to Globe. Ask Aphro girls how much they pay from 280, they have to pay for our free drinks. Big turn over at Aphro because slow business, too expensive for level of looks, most often quite empty except on few nights. I felt a bit lonely when I was the only guy at 7. 30 pm on a Thursday, more than 40 girls staring, smiling at me, but unfortunately no wow. Girls say they don t like Globe when they can t make good business or when they are fired. Megan told me my advice was excellent, my way to thank her.

[Mr Ho]

I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.

40 euro? In Artemis if I remember right, it is 140 euro, but they get to sleep up stairs.

[Pistons]

Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.

Nobody here argues over 50 euro. But 50 x X euro. With 100 rooms a year, that is 5000 euro.

Your billionaire may make his income from shoes sold at a price of 51 euro each. Take away 'only 50 euro', and he probably wouldn't even be a millionaire even.

[Pistons]

I looked in some Laufhauses in Graz but they stunk. Literally. I thought the only guys who could stand them were the Turkish teenagers.

Well, I listen too much to people on the Austrian forum. Haven't tried them myself. But Laufhaus Vienna has some beautiful girls if looking at the pictures.

[Mr Ho]

Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.

True LOL.

But put it this way, they got themselves something they cannot buy easily now called US justice system LOL.

Also, by reading article, most of the sexual act they did is pretty much we mongers get or even less than what we have in the cases that I mentioned.

However, I do also think that there are individuals who live more higher intense crazier monger lives in certain area of this world where money is above law like in some of emerging nations in eastern Europe and south America etc.

The thing is I think there should be boundaries. What we mongers do in FKK for instance is based on consensus and these girls are protected by house and also German law, so it is enjoyable enough for me because it is not totally against these girls will.

As for 50 euro, sometimes I don't know why some mongers including myself fuss with 50 euro more LOL. But I got to say that 150 euro per hour is justifiable upsell, but it is something with this 200 euro per hour upsell that I do not like mentally LOL, it is not that I cannot pay 50 euro extra, but I just hate these scam that kills my mood LOL. But now that you mention it, next time I am in FKK, I might give my self in and see if girls will go more all out in room, which I actually had few experience where I paid 200 euro per hour session and one of it was mind blowing session LOL.

[Optimist]

It also means a girl is not going to be banned for bad behavior. In the case of a major dispute, it would be cheaper to ban the customer. Because the girls are the real customers, a captive market.

I wonder if girls had to pay these fees in the old days (FKK Atlantis etc)?

I don't know about Atlantis but at World the girls used to pay about 40 if they started early. It meant they were quite relaxed about covering their costs.

[Akibono]

Once again, billionaire got arrested in sex case in US. Beside being . Why can't these US guys with money just go to Europe and go for 18 years old prostitute in Europe where it is legal? It is much liberal when it comes to legal sex trade in Europe, but these guys stay home ground in US and do their thing and end up getting arrested and face serious charges that they will pay with not only money, but their life like a decade or decades in US jail.

Because these guys are not looking to have sex with prostitutes. When you have enough money to buy anything you want in life, you seek out what you cannot buy. Meanwhile, the poor folks here are arguing over 50 E.

[Sebastiane]

An interesting observation about entrance prices for girls. Its not just in German FKKS too. A number of girls at Aphro have told me they left Globe because the working conditions were too strict and the club took too much of their earnings. I didn't even ask if the girls also have to pay. But I suppose the owners bottom line is to maximise their profits and, for now, there is a steady line of Romanian girls willing to take the place of any girls who don't like it both in Germany and Switzerland and Austria I guess.

[Polyamorist]

I agree with Pistons and Polyamorist that high entry prices for girls have bad effects. But of course the clubs are not interested as they earn a lot from the girls. As long as there is a supply of girls the clubs concerned will continue to see how much they can get from the girls. A big club could easily be taking g well over 10,000 euros (gross) a day from the girls.

It also means a girl is not going to be banned for bad behavior. In the case of a major dispute, it would be cheaper to ban the customer. Because the girls are the real customers, a captive market.

I wonder if girls had to pay these fees in the old days (FKK Atlantis etc)?

[Sirioja]

I don't think with 115 entry an average girl makes 200 per day. She would be stupid to continue going there for 85 e per day.

The club should not even charge entry for the girls in my opinion. They already make crazy profits accepting only cash for entrance from customer and selling drinks for 170 euro with 35 euro wholesale price so can they ask money from the girls who visit every day? Their existence is because of the girls, if they stop going there will be no club.

I think they ask entrance from girls to maintain this independence rule with them. In fact it is like asking from your employees to pay to come and work for you.

At Sharks or Oase, girls pay 105 per day, 20 to sleep at Sharks. Only 55 at GT. If sometimes really more than 200 girls at Sharks, then club make more than 20000, only with girls.

I remember when I discovered her in May 2014, my World regular worked only on week end, most often on Friday and Saturday, starting at 5 pm, sometimes on Sunday. On Winter 2014/2015, World asked girls to work 5 days per week, when World was empty, even on some Saturdays. On some Saturdays I was her only business with 2 or 3, 1 hour rooms, so 200 or 300, when she paid entry 95. She came for me on 2 Wednesdays on January when I couldn't go on week end because of Kitzbühel or Wengen. From her start at 5 pm to 4 am, was her only business with 2-1 hour rooms, 200 and entry 75 to pay for her, only 125 for her working 10 hours. I apologized about this, she answered no problem, we kept on meeting weekly for months, she never talked about money, she was too chic beauty for World clients level at this time, she became less elegant later. In brothels, some girls can do for you, for really not much money for them, maybe because they like you at this time.

[Optimist]

I agree with Pistons and Polyamorist that high entry prices for girls have bad effects. But of course the clubs are not interested as they earn a lot from the girls. As long as there is a supply of girls the clubs concerned will continue to see how much they can get from the girls. A big club could easily be taking g well over 10,000 euros (gross) a day from the girls.

The entry price for girls usually includes 25 euro which is tax to be passed on to the authorities.

[Mr Ho]

Because somebody has to stay behind and mind the shop. I generally assume that "billionaires" like Epstein, Kraft and Trump are just stooges / caretakers / middle managers. The real Owners are living the high life abroad in places where those kinds of laws don't apply. Ya maraary.

Now that we begin talking about this and today are Kelly got arrested LOL What is going on in US? LOL. These guy just has to go to Europe or south america.

Yes, I agree that some political figures and such are middle man. But most of the guys behind live rather conservatively.

The guys who live crazy are the ones in eastern Europe, and south america in some of these nations because laws there are money. But they do live risky life.

We monger have it good enough either and maybe we are in better place as we are safer with no problem because it is totally legal for us, we just have to fly to fuck LOL Air fucking.