Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[DramaFree11]

I note that there is absolutely nothing about finding women in Kyiv. Rather, there is an intense debate about political issues as if the ISG were about politics. This is too bad, because I can get the same debates just about everywhere.

Finding women under wartime conditions would be different and interesting.

This crazy, but nothing Surprises me about guys that want to travel to Ukraine.

[WyattEarp]

Tucker's the ONLY Fox talking head dead set against the Ukrainian proxy war. Many of Tucker's guest are why Tucker's show is Fox's top rated. He is inclined to exaggerate and spotlight fringe issues to provoke the viewership but he doesn't need to lie. The truth nowadays is hard enough to believe so no need to lie. Filter out the exaggerations and occasional Covid rants and he's very good.

Like you, Tucker's against fighting Russia directly through Ukraine's army. I believe it's a half proxy war and very different from the quintessential proxy war when we funded terrorist in Syria against Putin's Assad in 2012. How much of Syria's big cities are left after we failed to dislodge Assad? And what will be left of Ukraine when the big powers decide they've had enough. We'll be super lucky if the conflict doesn't spread and wreck everyone's plans and we're due for a big one.

I like your post and a few others here but knocking Tucker and then mirroring his pov was unusual. Tucker is anti Ukraine war and for good reason. Cheers.

I think you are being confused by Paulie's words. I admonished him in my last post for trying to put me and everyone on one side of this thread or the other. There is always more nuance and complexity in wars and foreign affairs in general. We have to allow for varying thoughts on the topic.

I do not share Elvis' view on the war. I simply agreed with Elvis that Europe does not need the USA To defend them. This is what triggered a visceral reaction from Paulie. I don't know why. It's actually a very popular view among Americans. It in no means implies that the USA Can't support the Ukraine in its war with Russia.

(Unfortunately, the whole pivot from NATO to the Western Pacific strategy carries a lot of the Trump baggage. Almost any Trump policy no matter how sound or realistic seems to trigger anti-Trump outrage. The idea of pivoting from Europe to Asia has been around before Trump. We in the USA Are currently bogged down in this partisan bickering that seems to infect every government decision.).

As far as Tucker Carlson, I think he is way over the top. Like many cable news commentators in a quest for ratings, Tucker looks to be a vocal contrarian with almost every Biden Administration policy. Sometimes he has an interesting take on things, but most of the time he is trying to gin up an older, male Republican audience. I have no idea where you got the idea that I mirror Tucker's POV.

Nothing personal but when someone here tries to describe another member or conveniently categorize them, it's kind of really important to read their own words in their last several posts. I wouldn't read Paulie or Elvis last references to me to try to gauge my opinions. That would seem to make sense.

[DramaFree11]

Yeah, the problem with Pauline is that he goes after anyone who does not parrot the bullshit Democratic narrative. When I said the travel ban Colombia implemented with Covid was a waste of time, Pauline said that I wanted cheap pussy over dead Colombians. Of course, the travel ban did jack shit with Colombia and the spread of Covid, and the lockdowns implemented were a fucking disaster.

And the lockdowns led to more serious infections down the line; "This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system," But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren't circulating among children, they don't develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.

And Pauline's response to being wrong with Russiagate, lockdowns, travel bans, and Ukrainegate? Gilda Radner said it best. Never mind! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLeaSWY37I.

Without Russiagate and Ukrainegate, would 1-6 have happened? Probably not. Hell, the Dems were plotting to get rid of Trump the day he stepped into office.

Thing is the Democrat's pet, Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, said that Putin would not have invaded Ukraine if Trump were still president. Given the debacles and loss of life in Ukraine and Afghanistan, I would ask all Democrats, "Did you screw up voting for Biden given all the deaths in Ukraine and Afghanistan?" If the answer is no, then why should I care? For all Trump's bluster, he kept the peace.

Those in the shipping business told me that Biden was gearing up for war since day one in office. He thought war was key to his winning re-election. And now the Dems have no way of winning on the economy so they think putting Putin's head on a spike like they did with Gaddafi will win them seats in the midterms. That is all they care about. They do not give a rat's ass about the people in Ukraine. I saw that when Biden's and other pols sons were fleecing the Ukrainians with their "aid" packages.

How much am I supposed to hate Putin when he punches you in the face after you have been kicking him in the shin? Pauline keeps lying that Putin was not provoked. Hell, Russiagate itself was provocation. And before then, there was all this American money going to Ukraine for weapons and training and some of it even went to the Nazis in Ukraine. What the hell was that for? What about the lie that we cannot keep Ukraine from joining NATO when any country can in NATO could have kept Ukraine out?

If Putin goes after a NATO country, then I will care but quit bugging me about a country that was your little pet project. OMG, Russia is going to take Ukraine!! They had Ukraine when they were the USSR. No, I do not like Putin. Big deal. If you dumb Dems really wanted peace, you should have voted for Trump. Are you going to own the fact that your vote for Biden caused the Ukrainians to suffer?

The more I think about it, I think you are correct, for whatever crazy ass reason Bidden wanted this war. Now he got what he wanted and we are getting are Ass kicked economically. Nobody is winning, but Putin and the arm dealers.

Nobody in America cares about this war, with the exception of a few crazy liberals. Russia is obviously not a military threat anymore, there army is not a threat to Europe, could the governments admit this or the media, no way, why stop the lies now.

Pauline, XMan and there followers are just delusional and for some ridiculous reason they want the war to continue. Ukraine is being destroyed, there people are getting killed or wounded, there will be nothing left to fight over. Everyone that has not already left will leave for Europe.

[MamaGuevos]

I note that there is absolutely nothing about finding women in Kyiv. Rather, there is an intense debate about political issues as if the ISG were about politics. This is too bad, because I can get the same debates just about everywhere.

Finding women under wartime conditions would be different and interesting.

[Elvis 2008]

I think more than likely you jump in and out of threads and think you have everyone categorized. "Ah-ha! This Wyatt guy is in bed with Elvis. ".

I have criticized Elvis extensively here. However, I don't think he is one of the garden variety Russia lovers here.

Yeah, the problem with Pauline is that he goes after anyone who does not parrot the bullshit Democratic narrative. When I said the travel ban Colombia implemented with Covid was a waste of time, Pauline said that I wanted cheap pussy over dead Colombians. Of course, the travel ban did jack shit with Colombia and the spread of Covid, and the lockdowns implemented were a fucking disaster.

And the lockdowns led to more serious infections down the line; "This positive collateral effect in the short term is welcome, as it prevents additional overload of the healthcare system," But in the long term, it can create problems of its own: if bacterial and viral infections aren't circulating among children, they don't develop immunity, which leads to larger outbreaks down the line.

And Pauline's response to being wrong with Russiagate, lockdowns, travel bans, and Ukrainegate? Gilda Radner said it best. Never mind! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZLeaSWY37I.

Without Russiagate and Ukrainegate, would 1-6 have happened? Probably not. Hell, the Dems were plotting to get rid of Trump the day he stepped into office.

Thing is the Democrat's pet, Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch, said that Putin would not have invaded Ukriaine if Trump were still president. Given the debacles and loss of life in Ukraine and Afghanistan, I would ask all Democrats, "Did you screw up voting for Biden given all the deaths in Ukraine and Afghanistan?" If the answer is no, then why should I care? For all Trump's bluster, he kept the peace.

Those in the shipping business told me that Biden was gearing up for war since day one in office. He thought war was key to his winning re-election. And now the Dems have no way of winning on the economy so they think putting Putin's head on a spike like they did with Gaddafi will win them seats in the midterms. That is all they care about. They do not give a rat's ass about the people in Ukraine. I saw that when Biden's and other pols sons were fleecing the Ukrainians with their "aid" packages.

How much am I supposed to hate Putin when he punches you in the face after you have been kicking him in the shin? Pauline keeps lying that Putin was not provoked. Hell, Russiagate itself was provocation. And before then, there was all this American money going to Ukraine for weapons and training and some of it even went to the Nazis in Ukraine. What the hell was that for? What about the lie that we cannot keep Ukraine from joining NATO when any country can in NATO could have kept Ukraine out?

If Putin goes after a NATO country, then I will care but quit bugging me about a country that was your little pet project. OMG, Russia is going to take Ukraine!! They had Ukraine when they were the USSR. No, I do not like Putin. Big deal. If you dumb Dems really wanted peace, you should have voted for Trump. Are you going to own the fact that your vote for Biden caused the Ukrainians to suffer?

[Xpartan]

Yesterday Russian liberators murdered over 50 Ukrainian POWs in Elenovka.

There is also 2 graphic videos showing Russian soldiers castrating and shooting a Ukrainian POW presumably in Severodonetsk.

In other words, business as usual. The denazification of Ukraine is in full swing.

[Socker]

I am an American and in my opinion we don't need 12 military bases, 90,000 troops and the Sixth Fleet patrolling the Mediterranean to counter Russian aggression. As I pointed out in simple math, Germany alone could easily field a land-based army that would be very capable of turning back the Russians on the ground in the event of an attack on NATO allies. This isn't even counting Britain, France and several smaller economies with an effective military.

Your point about Russian nuclear capabilities is interesting, but why can't the United States contribute less men and equipment while contributing the nuclear deterrence to NATO without all the troops and bases? I assure you this will keep being discussed in our domestic politics in the next several years. If you take away Russia's nuclear force, their European land army and air force leave a lot to be desired. Their effectiveness or lack thereof in the Ukraine is a case and point.

Tucker's the ONLY Fox talking head dead set against the Ukrainian proxy war. Many of Tucker's guest are why Tucker's show is Fox's top rated. He is inclined to exaggerate and spotlight fringe issues to provoke the viewership but he doesn't need to lie. The truth nowadays is hard enough to believe so no need to lie. Filter out the exaggerations and occasional Covid rants and he's very good.

Like you, Tucker's against fighting Russia directly through Ukraine's army. I believe it's a half proxy war and very different from the quintessential proxy war when we funded terrorist in Syria against Putin's Assad in 2012. How much of Syria's big cities are left after we failed to dislodge Assad? And what will be left of Ukraine when the big powers decide they've had enough. We'll be super lucky if the conflict doesn't spread and wreck everyone's plans and we're due for a big one.

I like your post and a few others here but knocking Tucker and then mirroring his pov was unusual. Tucker is anti Ukraine war and for good reason. Cheers.

[The Cane]

And for the record: http://www.pwencycl.kgbudge.com/C/a/Casualties.htm.

[WyattEarp]

We are involved in NATO for the simple reason to support our allies while we are an economic powerhouse and by far the primary nuclear power. Putin would love nothing more than for us to withdraw so he can further run roughshod in his region of the world. As to China, their nuclear capabilities are far less than that of Russia. Russia's is actually greater than the US by a small margin. China also hasn't been involved in a war on it's own since the Sino-Vietnamese conflict of 1979. They are primarily about economic advancement, and keeping good relations with a united US / EU will trump any lip service given to Russia.

Well there's a respectable endeavor which involves seeking to see all sides. Then there's a wishy washiness that's talking out of both sides of your mouth. That's what I see a lot with your posts on this subject and this attempted love in with Elvis, a person who openly supported the violence against the US capital saying it "should have been worse," along with stolen election lies and is an apologist for Vladimir Putin. But I'm afraid this one is the closest we've seen to black and white since Hitler. We have a tyrant manufacturing justifications for invasions and land grabs while targeting, murdering, executing civilians, with deportations and "filtering centers" / concentration camps for those who survive. There was no provocation whatsoever. The only threat was the interest in democracy in a country he sought to control.

As to anyone thinking Ukraine is going to have an easy time on the battlefield and live happily ever after, who the fuck has made that argument? Rofl Given the propensity toward straw men you and Elvis should get a long well. Enjoy the love in.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman

P.S. Jmsuttr's posts are missed, but I can see why he dropped out. The pro-Russia crowd for whatever reason is very much the majority in the free for all threads on this pay for sex site, whatever that means. Going in circles with them daily, and for no pay is hardly worth the effort. Thankfully such traitors are very much the minority in the US, Western Europe, and certainly in NATO Eastern Euro countries. Ultimately that's what's most important.

It's seems like you cherry pick posts and use your own straw man approach. It would indeed make you the smartest person on any forum you participate if you arguing with a position and person that you have created. I think more than likely you jump in and out of threads and think you have everyone categorized. "Ah-ha! This Wyatt guy is in bed with Elvis. ".

I have criticized Elvis extensively here. However, I don't think he is one of the garden variety Russia lovers here. It's very possible that he watches too much Fox News and can't appreciate their prime time line-up is entertainment. We can get into all the political baggage about Trump, Russia, Biden, Ukraine, et cetera and grind the thread into the ground. I myself don't think any of the somewhat conspiratorial theses really hold up consistently. Tucker Carlson is a circus clown. I don't watch, but it can be entertainment if you view it as such. I would liken him to MSNBC's Rachel Maddow. She can spin a yarn that can make your head spin and enrage any self-respecting liberal. Yikes is all I have to say.

As far as unpacking your specific points, I am an American and in my opinion we don't need 12 military bases, 90,000 troops and the Sixth Fleet patrolling the Mediterranean to counter Russian aggression. As I pointed out in simple math, Germany alone could easily field a land-based army that would be very capable of turning back the Russians on the ground in the event of an attack on NATO allies. This isn't even counting Britain, France and several smaller economies with an effective military.

Your point about Russian nuclear capabilities is interesting, but why can't the United States contribute less men and equipment while contributing the nuclear deterrence to NATO without all the troops and bases? I assure you this will keep being discussed in our domestic politics in the next several years. If you take away Russia's nuclear force, their European land army and air force leave a lot to be desired. Their effectiveness or lack thereof in the Ukraine is a case and point.

I hope you are right about China. China is at an evolution in their autocracy where they will want to flex their muscle. Historically China has not been interested in a global military preeminence, but certainly have wanted to have more influence in the Western Pacific. Claiming the waters of the South China Sea and building airstrips there are aggressive actions. A simple look at the region on a map in relation to the Chinese mainland shows the hostile nature of the moves. Then you have China looking for allies in the South Pacific island chains to develop naval ports just north of Australia. China can project power in their region in a way Russia can only dream about.

Jmsuttr frequently posted articles that described an ailing, close to dying Putin and / or a Russian regime crumbling from within. I have simply said you would not want to encourage a long, protracted conflict in the Ukraine based on this hope that this could be the end result. The outcome to the war brings a lot of uncertainty. IMHO, he would get noticeably irritated with this perspective. My clearest point is that wars bring on massive uncertainty as to their end. Does one have to be 110% committed to supporting the war until every last Russian soldier evacuates the Ukraine or else be labeled a Russia sympathizer?

Wars are messy. Peace is messier. There's plenty of examples where wars became long, grinding stalemates and no one got what they wanted in the end. Even after the war, it's very possible that the Ukraine-Russia border will look like other conflict borders where there is a constant state of hostility and continuing skirmishes. Russia isn't just going to pack up and say "my bad". Yes, it sucks for the Ukraine, but I don't think anything else is realistically possible. A regime change could change things, but even that might not bring a lasting peace.

I personally hope the West has the last laugh one day with a prosperous Ukraine looking westward.

[The Cane]

That's the way the Kremlin crumbles!

https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...udy-2022-7?amp

[The Cane]

The Japanese were great hand to hand fighters as the American vermin they dispatched across the Pacific found out.

Who were the vermin needing to be burned out of their rat holes? Yep, that's what I thought: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCUztfzcxA. And how were Japanese losses compared to American loses? Yep, exactly what I recalled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftCUztfzcxA. But it's all neither here nor there. Because it's Ruskie losses that we want to know about! In the end maybe they shall prevail. But only at a horrific loss of Ruskie aggressor lives!

[PedroMorales]

Just throw bodies at them. This is how the Ruskies do. Leave their dead upon the field of battle too. The only ones better at running up a willfully high body count are the Japanese. Why they beat Russia one-on-one. Who is willing to sacrifice the most lives in order to prevail?

https://www.aol.com/news/russia-suff...150659330.html

The Japanese were great hand to hand fighters as the American vermin they dispatched across the Pacific found out. That was due to their training in kendo. Japan's losses were down to a variety of factors, mostly lack of supplies (the blockade started the war) and bad CC&see. The USA bombed Iraq and raped Iraqi children because of weapons of mass destructions. Send your rapists to Ukraine and see what happens to them.

Ukraine is like most countries in that American filth know nothing about it. It is Zelensky's fodder who are getting minced. Artillery and missiles then to do that. Opinion is turning in Europe and hopefully, soon it will be open season. Fuck off and read your Vogue magazine.

[The Cane]

Just throw bodies at them. This is how the Ruskies do. Leave their dead upon the field of battle too. The only ones better at running up a willfully high body count are the Japanese. Why they beat Russia one-on-one. Who is willing to sacrifice the most lives in order to prevail?

https://www.aol.com/news/russia-suff...150659330.html

[Travv]

Wonder what Washington DCs reaction would be if Mexico or Cuba had allied with the USSR and had build nuclear armed missile sites and bioweapons labs near the USA. Think there are a number of movies about this scenario, such as 13 Days In November about the Cuban missile crisis. Ukraine is not a vital interest to American citizens and not worth risking a nuclear war. If you feel it is a vital interest, go join the Ukrainian Legion at the Ukie Embassy and leave the rest of us out of the nuclear brinkmanship!

That's 100% true and simple enough for a 4th grader to understand. Even Matt Gaetz, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Tucker Carlson are smart enough to understand it. But it can't be entertained because it conflicts with their white nationalist, isolationist agenda that calls on the US to withdraw from the world stage. Putin would love that, and it's why they are on the same team.

You know an argument can be made to seize Rupert Murdock's assets and shut down Fox News since certain guests, and especially Carlson, are allowed to freely disseminate information easily confirmed as false that supports and gives comfort to our enemy. This was done in the lead up to and during WW II while Nazi sympathizing organizations like the German American Bund were dissolved. Here's an article that makes the argument. I'm personally not ready for that step but it's something to keep on the back burner. Fox deals heavily in Kremlin propaganda, and this is at odds with our national security. Here's a sample:

"Russia would never give genuine western journalists airtime. But it can always find a slot for its favourite quisling: Fox News's Tucker Carlson. He pushes out Russian propaganda lines or perhaps creates his own lies for Russia to use. Ukraine, not Russia, is the real tyranny. Nato provoked poor Vladimir Putin. The west is plotting to use biological weapons. Last week, he floated the theory that the war was not the result of an unprovoked invasion by a colonialist dictatorship but of the Biden administration's desire to avenge Donald Trump's victory in 2016.

[Elvis 2008]

It's just a rehash of Russian propaganda that Elvis was spoonfed watching Tucker Carlson. He's regurgitating it here and isn't capable of anything more. For one thing Biden lacks the authority to exclude any European country from ever joining NATO as this is against the provisions of the treaty and open door policy.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/202.../ugnk-m17.html.

For a new country to join NATO, all 30 member states must be unanimous in supporting it.

And realistically speaking, if the USA which pays the most into NATO said no to Ukraine coming in, it would not happen. Hell, Turkey was going to prevent Sweden and Finland from coming in.

I am not being spoon fed anything but you are. Was this a lie you came up with on your own or were you spoon fed it by MSNBC, NYT, WaPO?