Sao Paulo Reports

[Nounce]

... then the charge when made is in the local currency, how has he substantially benefited from a cash versus a credit card sale? ...

It's local currency but the pesos come from USD using official rate so it benefits the government. I never said this was wide spread.

When I left, I found a pharmacy at the airport. I bought as many condoms as I can, lubes, and still have a lot left so I bought a vibrator. LOL. I plan to go back though. I just don't like the way money disappears in Argentina.

[Axel Heyst]

You have no clue where I've been, or when I went. I'll say this. I've been on 6 vacations since January 2021 (plus some business travel), and now planning for numbers 7 and 8. I don't announce everywhere I'm going and when I plan to travel. At the end of the day, that's my business, and not yours. Over 50 countries on 5 continents. Happy travels!

Cane you don't have to justify yourself to the naysayers. Most of us are aware of your contributions to this forum.

As to the cash vs CC's debate, everyone can choose his own sword as far as I am concerned. I prefer CC's for most transactions. They are safe, convenient and allow me to spend as much as I like without any constraints. If any foul play should occur, I can easily call up the card company and report the fraudulent activity and everything will be taken care of. I is never a problem. But I am happy to report, nonetheless, that 99.99% of the time nothing fraudulent ever occurs. End of story.

So in SP, I use my CC's for all hotel, restaurant, grocery store, uber and clinica transactions and almost all of my boate transactions. I like the better FX rate and the points earned which can pay for future hotel bookings and or plane flights. In the boates, I prefer to pay my girls directly in cash after our session is over, but every other transaction in the boate like the bar bill and the hotel room I simply charge on my card. Again, it is fine with me if others prefer doing it with cash. I can understand the concern not to leave a digital trail, but then these folks should also use a burner phone when mongering in foreign countries as well.

[The Cane]

Senor Nounce, you are on target and right. You have actually been in Brazil and Latin America for the last few years, and your critic has not even been here for 1000 days.

You have no clue where I've been, or when I went. I'll say this. I've been on 6 vacations since January 2021 (plus some business travel), and now planning for numbers 7 and 8. I don't announce everywhere I'm going and when I plan to travel. At the end of the day, that's my business, and not yours. Over 50 countries on 5 continents. Happy travels!

[Vagabundo1]

Senor Nounce, you are on target and right. You have actually been in Brazil and Latin America for the last few years, and your critic has not even been here for 1000 days.

I am only agreeing to another post and mentioned my actual experience. It's not like I made stuff up to make people react.

[The Cane]

From a simple economic perspective, Argentina wins anytime a tourist goes down there and spends money cash or credit card. The only thing is the government wants tourists to stay out of the blue market and exchange (or spend with credit card) Dollars, Euros, etc. At the official rate.

I have been to Argentina several times and there were never any questions about cash or credit (could always use either including pesos), albeit its been awhile and things clearly can and do change economically (like you say Argentina has been screwed up for a long time). But here's a question. When you pay by credit card aren't you paying in the local currency (unless given an option to pay in some other currency like dollars, which you should never do)? So if the credit card payment is in the local currency, how or what has the merchant gained by requiring the use of a credit card versus accepting his country's legal tender (banknotes and coins recognized by law as satisfactory payment of a debt)? If I have a pocket full of legit but depreciated pesos that the merchant doesn't want to accept in favor of a credit card charge, but then the charge when made is in the local currency, how has he substantially benefited from a cash versus a credit card sale? I'm thinking because at least with the credit card charge, even if it's in the weak local currency, the transaction will have been conducted at whatever the value of the peso was at that specific point in time, and that's what the merchant gets, versus having cash sitting in the till that could lose more and more and more value as time goes on. The credit card charge is at the value of the peso today which, if economic times are bad, will be worth more today than it will be tomorrow. So more credit card transactions and less continually depreciating cash on hand benefits the merchant. Other ideas?

[The Cane]

I am only agreeing to another post and mentioned my actual experience. It's not like I made stuff up to make people react.

We're all relying on our actual experiences, which obviously can differ. I decided that the first time someone tells me that they don't accept cash and credit cards only you guys will be the first to know!

[Nounce]

What say ye? After all, you started this, I didn't. ...

I am only agreeing to another post and mentioned my actual experience. It's not like I made stuff up to make people react.

[Nounce]

...assumed if you offered the merchant cash in Dollars he would be happy. Perhaps that's not true in this case.....

The peso depreciated about 50% within a year between my visits in terms of blue dollar. That is one reason to not hold pesos. Many merchants will accept dollars and give pretty good rate. We didn't have small bills and we did not carry anything else but pesos at that time. I remember Questner wrote a good post explaining different rates.

[The Cane]

Actually I should qualify some. At plenty of clinicas and termas in Brazil (and other sex joints too) you can settle everything up with a credit card if you want to, but I don't do that (don't have a comfort level using a card at most of those establishments), preferring instead where I can to pay direct mongering-related expenses in cash as much as possible, and other non-mongering expenses with a credit card. Besides, as has been noted before, when you settle up with a credit card at these brothels there's normally a fee added onto the bill making your outing that more expensive. That's another reason why I consider "cash mongering" to be king. You can save some money by going that route. The girls usually prefer cash. I like paying in cash. It works for me and it works for them. And if you need to "cover your trail" then there's another reason for why cash is better to pay for your mongering activities than using a credit card and having the evidence show up on a monthly statement.

[WyattEarp]

When we were asked to be paid by credit card, my immediate reaction was can we pay double? Because we don't use or carry credit card in BA. The reason is obvious to us so there wasn't even a discussion. Argentina needs dollars. When we pay 10 USD in credit card, we will pay the equivalnet of 5 USD in cash in peso. It's in the government's best interest to get tourists to pay in USD if they have a choice. The government put a large fee on Argentina credit card for USD purchase for the same reason so when you pay 10 USD in foreign purchase, it came out on the credit card bill as the equivalent of 20 USD in official exchange rate.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I've been following this Argentina conversation and I really have a hard time understanding what's really going on with these transactions. First, just let me say Argentina has almost always had fucked up currency regimes for several decades. It makes for quite an adventure or headache or both depending on your orientation.

When you first posted the merchant's credit card preference, I just thought "sure, the merchant doesn't want cash in pesos". It's been said here the girls on Seeking want Dollars and only Dollars. I just assumed if you offered the merchant cash in Dollars he would be happy. Perhaps that's not true in this case.

As far as your comment above, I have a hard time following who is buying what, with what form of payment and what the government is doing. I'm sure you know what you are doing though.

From a simple economic perspective, Argentina wins anytime a tourist goes down there and spends money cash or credit card. The only thing is the government wants tourists to stay out of the blue market and exchange (or spend with credit card) Dollars, Euros, etc. At the official rate.

[The Cane]

I've been to numerous stores covering 4 continents that are cashless (they won't accept it). Some cities where those stores are located are New York City, Shanghai, London, Stockholm and Singapore.

I've also been to many places (usually bars and restaurants) that ONLY take cash. As well as countless places that charges a CC surcharge.

I don't question anything that you say. Just know that my travels are extensive and I have never ever been "forced" to use a credit card ever, including in New York City and London (never been to Shanghai or Stockholm). Again, if it broke one way or the other, they wanted cash and would not accept a credit card for whatever reason (seems when I travel abroad I don't find myself dealing with a lot of the huge commercial concerns that you mention but more mom and pop places). I don't doubt that it can and does happen (required to use credit), and my point is not to delegitimize anybody else's experiences, but I've traveled enough to know that in the overwhelming number of circumstances, a traveler will have the option of paying with cash or credit if you stick to the beaten path in the first or second world. Vendors want to be flexible where they can and get that tourist money.

I appreciate you not wanting to dip into the "cash is king debate", and I really don't want to rehash it either, but from a pure practical standpoint it's true. I'll just leave it like this. When we go to a termas, a boate, a clinica, to Vila Mimosa or wherever we go, how many tutes whip out their credit card machine so that we can pay them for services rendered LOL? No, they want cash and that's what we give them. The same thing plays out all over the world when it comes to dealing with tutes. I'm like you. For the mongering piece (but also a lot for food and drink too) I will deal in cash, and for many of the other expenses I will use a credit card. And since on a mongering trip my primary purpose for being there is to "monger", that's what I'm spending most of the money on. Mongering which mostly involves a cash transaction between your average trick and your average tute. And since mongering is ultimately what we're all here for, I'm thoroughly convinced that the basic nature of it is what makes cash king. Now when I have to start paying tutes with a credit card OK! But until then (shrugs).

[The Cane]

It's just good nature jabbing. LOL. I don't even have any ill feeling toward you but there are things that I underestimated that casued things to go south, like this instance too.

When we were asked to be paid by credit card, my immediate reaction was can we pay double? Because we don't use and carry credit card in BA. The reason is obvious to us so there wasn't even a discussion. Argentina needs dollars. When we pay 10 USD in credit card, we will pay the equivalnet of 5 USD in cash in peso. It's in the government's best interest to get tourists to pay in USD if they have a choice. The government put a large fee on Argentina credit card for USD purchase for the same reason so when you pay 10 USD in foreign purchase, it came out on the credit card bill as the equivalent of 20 USD in official exchange rate.

The cash is king comments wasn't that bad. I was actually on the ground gathering and posting information to share. It would be something else otherwise.

I have a posting history. There were several posts about CBJ. I think there was one post sharing my experience at Casarao and I said I looked up old info after to verify my findings. I stayed a short distance away for several weeks that I frequent it several times a week so I think that gives me a good enough perspective. Most of my posts are sharing in nature and I wasn't even complaining. Instead, it is you go, but these are the situations that happened to me, see if you can do better knowing them. Most of the things I talked about is my real experience, for weeks if not months. I avoid talking things that I don't have experience about but I don't expect my experience will be the same as others.

I make some great friends here. Frequently I am humbled by others' experience and knowledge. If you tell me you never get CBJ, I believe you because I have met people like that in person, and I won't be nave to think that is what I will get either. I prefer making friends than making enemies.

What say ye? After all, you started this, I didn't. I only hope that the post versus pre-pandemic world isn't so different that we now have to compensate tutes after they've given us BBBJ / CIM with "pay by tap" to the tongue. Stick it out baby! Or, perhaps you prefer my card inserted between your butt cheeks after anal? No need to swipe as it has a chip!

[SocratesNY]

I have never been anywhere including in the United States where a merchant preferred the use of a credit card (unless it was online) much less "forced" me to use one. If anything it was the other way around (cash and no credit). Why? The reason is because merchants have to pay a fee to the credit card companies for each transaction, and they don't like that. But in today's modern age they really don't have a choice. Either accept credit cards or go out of business. Just had this very discussion yesterday with my favorite grocer.

I am not going to delve into the "Cash is King" debate. It comes down to personal preference.

I personally prefer cash for hobbying and credit card for everything else. I also don't bring too much cash with me when traveling and mainly use ATMs. I do carry spare emergency cash and the amount depends on location and length of stay.

There are lots of great advice provided by many BMs, but I think the best one the use of the Schwab card or other banks / accounts that refunds ATM fees.

I do want to disagree to some extent about merchants 1) preferring cash over CC and 2) that there aren't a lot of places that are cashless.

1).

Whether a business prefers cash or CC has a lot to do with their size, as well as geography. The larger the business, the more they prefer CC.

It is cheaper to deal with CC transactions as they don't need to worry about theft, security and it increases transaction time, which can lower labor costs. There are also other benefits that I am not listing for the business. The larger businesses also pay a smaller fee to the CC companies.

Some countries also cap CC fees / intresst rates and have more cashless options than just the major CC companies. Sweden is currently 80%+ cashless.

A smaller business, especially one that want to avoid taxes or do money laundering, would prefer cash and only offer CC payment to stay competitive.

2).

I've been to numerous stores covering 4 continents that are cashless (they won't accept cash). Some cities where those stores are located in are New York City, Shanghai, London, Stockholm and Singapore.

I've also been to many places (usually bars and restaurants) that ONLY take cash. As well as countless places that charges a CC surcharge.

[Nounce]

...but then you attack me...

It's just good nature jabbing. LOL. I don't even have any ill feeling toward you but there are things that I underestimated that casued things to go south, like this instance too.

When we were asked to be paid by credit card, my immediate reaction was can we pay double? Because we don't use or carry credit card in BA. The reason is obvious to us so there wasn't even a discussion. Argentina needs dollars. When we pay 10 USD in credit card, we will pay the equivalnet of 5 USD in cash in peso. It's in the government's best interest to get tourists to pay in USD if they have a choice. The government put a large fee on Argentina credit card for USD purchase for the same reason so when you pay 10 USD in foreign purchase, it came out on the credit card bill as the equivalent of 20 USD in official exchange rate.

The cash is king comments wasn't that bad. I was actually on the ground gathering and posting information to share. It would be something else otherwise. I think in this case, the poster was saying to insist only on a single one is not smart. What to disagree about that?

I have a posting history. There were several posts about CBJ. I think there was one post sharing my experience at Casarao and I said I looked up old info after to verify my findings. I stayed a short distance away for several weeks that I frequent it several times a week so I think that gives me a good enough perspective. Most of my posts are sharing in nature and I wasn't even complaining. Instead, it is you go, but these are the situations that happened to me, see if you can do better knowing them. Most of the things I talked about is my real experience, for weeks if not months. I avoid talking things that I don't have experience about but I don't expect my experience would be the same as others.

I prefer making friends and I have made some great friends here. Frequently I am humbled by others' experience and knowledge. If you tell me you never get CBJ, I believe you because I have met people like that in person, and I won't be naive to think that is what I will get either.

[Questner]

Same, that is until today. I landed in SP two days ago and I'm having the hardest time finding a working ATM for my Canadian TD card. Today I tried in a Bradesco, 3 times with different amounts, and all failed yet one of them showed up on my bank account. Took a bunch of time to file a claim. Tried a bunch of different ATMs, keep getting errors. Only the "24 h ATM" one with very high fees (24 real) and 1000 real limit worked for me so far.

TD has 60 days to credit you after you registered the claim. Every withdrawal attempt goes against your daily limit, keep it in mind. Once you exceed your daily limit every next attempt will show an error. Also, not every ATM at Bradesco's branch will dispense cash to you, only few machines on VISA system. Nothing you can do other than avoid busy mornings, long lines when ATMs may run out of cash, weekends etc, and always take pictures of the machine and errors screens. Do your withdrawals during Canadian business hours, mind time difference.