Kyiv

[Global Surfer]

It depends on how you go about it, ie doing the chase, where, etc.

A compromise is at the CM 2 club at Hotel Novotel Bangkok, where thare are girls from Russia and the former Soviet Union, including Prosal's favorite Uzbekistan.

You can find Uzbeks in street outside Grace hotel (Sukhumvit Soi3/4) area from BHT 1000. 2000. Obviously note the same quality.

You may find some in Safeway, A regular Ukrainian MILF going for BHT 1000. She claim to be a gyneacologist from Ukraine.

Dubai is also probably cheaper than top Kiev clubs.

[Cruiser D]

For some reason this forum changes my short hand for elenasmodels (EM) to them. How odd.

There are indeed quite a few hard core scammers on them but they are fairly easy to spot and avoid.

The british guy who got killed met his bride on them.

[Cruiser D]

There are indeed quite a few hard core scammers on them but they are fairly easy to spot and avoid.

The british guy who got killed met his bride on them.

I was once member of Elenas. There are no good looking ladies above 30 there. I did set my limit to 28. It's very difficult to meet anyone there. Most only want to lie you for money and have no intention to give you anything what so ever back.

[Cruiser D]

That report nicely sums up everything you need to know about p4p action in Kiev based on good intel written in this forum.

Someone should ROD it.

Global Surfer is correct on both points, CalgaryFleshma.

First, why limit your search for a beautiful WG to Buddha Bar.

[Cruiser D]

I'm really not a big fan of the quality of the pasteries at Repriza. It is however a good low commitment spot to meet for a first date / drink. It is a good way to gauge what kind of girl you are dealing with. Good girls won't think twice about it. Gold digging shrews won't like it one bit (Repriza).

I was talking about the lobby bar, the coffee just past the lobby where you get into the casino. The bakery is in the basement, at coffee Volkonsky, and together with Repriza they are the best pastries in Kiev, and excellent hunting grounds but very upscale. There you compete with Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.

[Jojosun]

. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.

It depends on how you go about it, ie doing the chase, where, etc.

One place that I can think of where any monger of a (certain age) wouldn't look a Pervert parading himself around with an 18 years old something, is Thailand.

Very Kosher and acceptable there, the old wrinkled bald bold men and the young girls. Scene. .

Problem for me is its too humid and hot in Bangkok, and the main reason I am into Tanned Blonde Caucasian Girls.

A compromise is at the CM 2 club at Hotel Novotel Bangkok, where thare are girls from Russia and the former Soviet Union, including Prosal's favorite Uzbekistan.

One really nice and a stunner from Tashkent (White) wanted US$150 all night.

Couldn't do it at the, as I was accompanied (family ).

Prices cheaper than in Kiev, and the girls are not really hard hoes. They are on Fun, sun, p4p Holidays.

Another is in Pattaya, where you do get Russian girls moonlighting on their holidays.

[Jojosun]

. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.

It depends on how you go about it, ie doing the chase, where, etc.

One place that I can think of where any monger of a (certain age) wouldn't look a Pervert parading himself around with an 18 years old something, is Thailand.

Very Kosher and acceptable there, the old wrinkled bold men and the young girls. Scene. .

Problem for me is its too humid and hot in Bangkok, and the main reason I am into Tanned Blonde Caucasian Girls.

A compromise is at the CM 2 club at Hotel Novotel Bangkok, where thare are girls from Russia and the former Soviet Union, including Prosal's favorite Uzbekistan.

One really nice and a stunner from Tashkent (White) wanted US$150 all night.

Couldn't do it at the, as I was accompanied (family ).

Prices cheaper than in Kiev, and the girls are not really hard hoes. They are on Fun, sun, p4p Holidays.

Another is in Pattaya, where you do get Russian girls moonlighting on their holidays

[Jojosun]

I agree, when looking for anything other than strict, in-your-face P2P, how you look is very important always, and in that corner of the world, even more important. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.

There are many layers to Kiev beyond the Strict P4P. One of the best at present are the young semi pros. In my case I mix and match between the 2 above, if the looks and price is right. But I never do any dating there. Simply not interested. And secondly I am only interested in the age group 18/25.

Having relegated my first young hot semi pro to a (Mutual friend with benefits atatus) , she is now one of the circle who does the scouting and the referrals for me.

Climaxnow was right about getting a pyramid scheme (Females) there. But it would get Fucked up if other men get on it.

Best way to get a girl is another girl who is in her social group, and not just in Kiev.

Keep your fingers crossed that The Ukraine will never join the EU. Its a sure way of killing the semi pro scene there, much in the same way with every EE country that joined the Europian Union From Poland To Latvia.

[Global Surfer]

I think most people are better off in their home country then travelling. You also need to add the cost of travelling, hotel, taxis, drinks etc. You also need to add the cost of expensive drink. I think a beer in Buddha bar cost more than a whole bottle of Vodka in open market.

In Buddha bar decor, atmosphere and service is excellent but your choice is restricted to 8/10 hardcore wgs mostly from central Asia where as Caribbean is more lively.

[Global Surfer]

Thanks for LilJoey for detailed report. My information was limited to Top-Models, Escort-Models and Mamba. Last time when I returned a below average from Top-Model they refused to send replacement even though I pad USD 10 for Taxi fair.

Thanks also to Cucumber and Canada in Kazakhstan thread to provide valuable information on Almaty.

I have dropped the idea of going to Almaty in favour of Kiev because of

Ridiculously expensive hotels.

Visa problems

[PedroToronja]

Been going there since September 2009, so I have my own social group there (Females) who have seen The Cover and the inside of the book. Best way of establishing a status and getting fresh talent.

I prefer doing it in style, so I don't look like a clueless Pervert chasing 18 years old girls. BTW I am in the second half of my 40s.

I agree, when looking for anything other than strict, in-your-face P2P, how you look is very important always, and in that corner of the world, even more important. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.

[PedroToronja]

They used to have the best pasteries in town at the cafe.

Also used to have the best lobby girls back in the day.

I was talking about the lobby bar, the coffee just past the lobby where you get into the casino. The bakery is in the basement, at coffee Volkonsky, and together with Repriza they are the best pastries in Kiev, and excellent hunting grounds but very upscale. There you compete with Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.

[Tuggen]

It works fine, but you can easily use Mamba also, or instead. At Elena's models you get more "serious" girls, looking for marriage but also a few scammers. I figure that even if I am seriously looking for a wife, it starts with physical attraction and physical interaction (sex) , so I am not being too disingenuous. If they are beautiful, smart and good in bed, then I am open to a long-term relationship, in theory. I usually sign up several month in advance of a trip to Kiev or Moscow, and work the site. I figured it is best to got for gold and get the higher level 6 month membership (200 USD) instead of the 3 months one (100 USD). With one you get only 50 contacts, with the other and unlimited number of contacts, so you do not have to count, or weigh whether a girl is worth using up one of your 50 contacts.

After a while it gets complicated and you have to be organized to keep track of who is who. Last time I went to Kiev I had about 25 real contacts, and twice as many in other cities. I was talking regularly on skype with about 5 from Kiev, and they were all "happy to see me" in person. Of the others, some I could not communicate, some just wanted a good time (which was okay with me) and some just did not feel the "chemistry", which is also fine. I would say that strategy does not work if you are only staying for a few days, unless you are only seeing a few girls. I spent 2 weeks, (3 weekends) , going to the south (Dnipro / Zapo / kherson / Niko / Odessa) and the east (kharkov / donetstk) during the weekdays.

It is definitely nicer to visit one of these smaller cities if you have someone to show you around. In the smaller cities I met 2-3 girls in each; my strategy was if they put put on the first night, I stayed a second one, if not, I got some professional help and moved on the next day. My range was from 21 to 36, all beautiful.

One thing is for sure, if there is a little chemistry, and the girl thinks that you are being honest (and like I said, I was, even if I an still single, and here) , she will definitely give you everything in the bedroom.

I was once member of Elenas. There are no good looking ladies above 30 there. I did set my limit to 28. It's very difficult to meet anyone there. Most only want to lie you for money and have no intention to give you anything what so ever back.

[LilJoey]

You may also try Delux and Caribean bar.

'don't't care about the cost' is probably not the best option. You may get 10 but no GFE. That would not work for most people.

I still think Mamba is the best option for non Russian Speakers where you may get away from UAD 400-800.

(A Russian from Kazan / Tataristan admitted to going for USD 20 / hour with locals. She was definitely 9)

Global Surfer is correct on both points, CalgaryFleshma.

First, why limit your search for a beautiful WG to Buddha Bar. In fact, there was a specific recommendation back in the thread by Cruiser D to stay away from Buddha Bar, in favor of some of the other clubs mentioned in the thread. Carribean club received the endorsement of Me and You back in the thread as a place where he was able to get very pretty P4p girls for lower cost. D'lux is of course one of the hottest clubs in Kiev and is reported to have a fairly good concentration of girls available for p4p but usually of the higher priced type of girls as at Buddha Bar. There are a number of other clubs mentioned back in the thread as being good places to seek a pretty p4p girl for prices of $200/2hrs and below, such as Shooters, or Avalon or Vodka bar and other places. Research this thread for the names of all the clubs that guys here have been successfully mongering at for lower priced p4p.

Global Surfer is also correct that while at Buddha Bar you will likely find a hot WG, it will cost you probably around $300/2 hours even if you negotiate well. And that it is much cheaper to get p4p girls from mamba. Ru where many girls have prices between 400 UAH ($50) to 800 UAH ($100) per hour. But in this regard too, there is no need to limit oneself to only mamba. Ru. There are a number of other escort websites with similar prices that can be used to get an escort p4p girl to your apartment at similar low cost, such as www.top-modals.com, or www.minuet.biz, or www.vipescort.mx, or www.relaxportal.biz, or www.intimdosugua.com, www.uadreamedcort.com, www.escort-models.net, www.sexbombua.com, www.sexkieva.com, and a bunch of other websites that were listed in posts back in this thread. All of these websites should be presumed to be using fake pictures. But they will send actual girls to your apartment for P4p at the advertised lower prices similar to the prices available on mamba. Ru. So if one is willing to spend the time necessary to make sufficient attempts at ordering an escort girl to come to one's apartment enough times, it has been reported on this thread as possible to eventually get a nice looking girl. If girls who are not attractive enough show up, you just send them back saying, I'm sorry I wanted someone more similar to the picture in the website that your agency promised was a true picture. Another source of p4p girls with similar prices is girl apartments that taxi drivers can show you where they are. Likewise, it is sometimes possible to meet a semi-pro type girl in some bars and nightclubs who will be ok with the similar price of $100, but it's not a guaranteed result of going to a club.

LANGUAGE AS A BARRIER TO MONGERING.

Global Surfer mentioned non Russian speaking as a reason to use mamba in KIev. The ability to speak Russian is an issue for all the p4p options, including mamba. Ru, because many of the p4p ads on mamba. Ru are in fact agencies or girl apartments where it is only the manager or phone person who speaks English, but the girl who comes will likely not speak English. But this is no reason to limit yourself to english speaking girls. As long as you can set up your laptop in your apartment to use Google Translate to communicate with the girl typing messages back and forth. It is enough to break the ice. The new iPhone even has an application for voice translation of spoken phrases, making communication even easier. Try to conduct all communications for setting up appointments via text message, so that you can use the google translator to prepare your messages and to translate their replies, much like you should use the translator to communicate with girls on mamba itself.

COST HIERARCHY OF P4P IN KIEV.

1. 400 UAH ($50) to 800 UAH ($100)

As stated above, the lower cost possibilities (rates between 400 UAH ($50) to 800 UAH ($100) are to be found using websites such as mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, which have some true pics, and other websites you can locate by searching on the Internet that also have such low prices. However, to use websites, you have to be willing to put up with the fake picture bait and switch tactics of the websites and to expend the time to keep trying in the hopes that the agency you are dealing with will accidentally send you a really hot girl.

Similar low prices can be found also in girl apartments in the downtown area, which you can find using taxi drivers, or if you meet a shill for these apartments in the street downtown. As well, at some bars and nightclubs, you may be successful in getting a girl who is not a professional WG, but rather a semi-pro type, for a low rate of $100 for an hour or two or more, which some members have claimed to have done. It's not an easy or guaranteed thing to achieve when going to a nightclub or bar, but always remains a possibility.

2. $200/2 hours.

If you would prefer to search for a beautiful WG in a way in which you can see the girls in advance and choose to try to get a WG whom you know in advance is truly beautiful, then instead of the fake picture websites, you must go to nightclubs or strip clubs with take out. The possibility of finding pretty WG's or semi-pros in nightclubs for a price of $200/2 hours, like used to be possible at the River Palace up until end of 2010, has been vouched for by Cruiser D and others, so it should be your next level of cost conscious search. Bear in mind that CD recommended searching in other nightclubs mentioned in the thread, and not at the high priced Buddha Bar and D'lux.

3. $300/3 hours.

This rate is the going rate for "take out" of pretty girls at Rio and Mandarin strip clubs. As I have pointed out before, besides getting to see the girls in advance before selecting, as one can do in a regular nightclub, the strip club mongering situation has several added benefits, namely: 1. Allowing you to closely inspect the girls naked body. There will be no surprises due to imperfections hidden by clothing. 2. The ability to actually mess around with a girl in a private dance, which helps one gauge if there is any chemistry between you and the girl. 3. The rules of operation in play at these strip clubs in Kiev, which include there being no rip off drinks with ridiculously high prices with which to gouge customers (as strip clubs in other parts of the world may have) , but rather only drinks at normal nightclub prices being sold, as well as rules which prohibit the girls from propositioning customers for private dances or to take them home for p4p, which in turn results in there being no pressure on the customer from this kind of pestering, and further result in the customer being able to take as long as he wants to speak to the girl and get to know her, before deciding anything. This enhanced the customer's ability to make a better decision as to which girl will be the best bet to get a GFE experience with. This low pressure environment for mongering and making a decision on whether to take a girl or not, is to be contrasted with the high pressure one usually gets from a WG one may meet in a regular nightclub, which is usually much more brusque and requires a relatively quick decision, or she concludes you are probably just wasting her time, and so she moves on to the next potential customer.

Note: It has been pointed out that to this fee must be added the incidental costs of visiting strip clubs which can be between $50 to $100, or more, depending on how many drinks and private dances one gets, and therefore the real cost is about $400/3hours. But the truth is that there are incidental costs of admission and drinks at regular nightclubs too of probably at least $50, and more if you buy more drinks for girls. So in comparing strip clubs to regular nightclubs costs, the incidentals are really a wash, and it is less confusing if one simply compares the direct p4p fees asked by the girls for their time.

4. ALL NIGHT MULTIPLE HOURS REDUCED RATES.

All night multiple hour fees for 8 to 12 hours for $400 or $500.

The all night fee at Rio for example, is $400. At Dolls it was $500."all night" means from as soon after opening time as you can take them out, usually not earlier than around 9:00 PM, until closing time which at Rio is 5:00 AM, but may be later at Dolls. So the "all night" is usually at least up to 8 hours.

You can get a lower rate for a multiple hour all night package deal with girls from mamba. Ru, as well as nightclub WG's too. What is the proper "all night" fee for mamba. Ru girls who charge 500 UAH to 800 UAH / hr for their first hour? Different opinions have been expressed on the thread, but it seems to me it should be something like between triple her first hour fee to four times her first hour fee. So for example a mamba. Ru girl who asked 600 UAH for the first hour, would probably agree to an all night for between 1800 UAH to 2400 UAH, or somewhere between $200 to $300. We've discussed in prior posts whether it's worthwhile to do it if most of the "all night" is spent sleeping. But if most of the time will be during time you are awake and have energy to play with her, such as when you agree upon an "all day" instead of an "all night" date, then you can really reap the benefits of the low costs possible in Kiev with package rates for long term dates of multiple hours.

Similarly, with a very beautiful WG girl from a nightclub, negotiating a long term multiple hour rate can be a way of maximizing the value of your dollars spent. For example, one of the awesome hotties at River Palace in its day, who would never agree to less than $300/2hours, nevertheless agreed to $500 for all night, thereby lessening the cost per hour significantly, and she was a pleasure to spend time with.

5. $300/2hours and $400/2hours.

At this cost level we are already at the higher end of Kiev's p4p options, which at this cost level includes high priced WG's at D'lux and Buddha Bar and Arena, etc, as well as strip clubs with higher take out prices like Dolls or others mentioned on the thread, as well as www.gia-escort.com (which uses true pictures). Www.vodkaescort.com Went out of business but it seems is starting up again with girls from St Petersburg, or may have morphed into www.escortnews.eu, or www.solitairemodels.com, or www.ladiesinkiev.com, and a whole bunch of other escort websites with higher prices that one can easily google search for, but which nobody knows if they use fake pictures or not, because very few guys would pay 150 Euro or 200 Euro per hour in Kiev because truly very beautiful girls are available at half that amount, as above.

LJ

[Stevie69]

It works fine, but you can easily use Mamba also, or instead. At Elena's models you get more "serious" girls, looking for marriage but also a few scammers. I figure that even if I am seriously looking for a wife, it starts with physical attraction and physical interaction (sex) , so I am not being too disingenuous. If they are beautiful, smart and good in bed, then I am open to a long-term relationship, in theory. I usually sign up several month in advance of a trip to Kiev or Moscow, and work the site. I figured it is best to got for gold and get the higher level 6 month membership (200 USD) instead of the 3 months one (100 USD). With one you get only 50 contacts, with the other and unlimited number of contacts, so you do not have to count, or weigh whether a girl is worth using up one of your 50 contacts.

After a while it gets complicated and you have to be organized to keep track of who is who. Last time I went to Kiev I had about 25 real contacts, and twice as many in other cities. I was talking regularly on skype with about 5 from Kiev, and they were all "happy to see me" in person. Of the others, some I could not communicate, some just wanted a good time (which was okay with me) and some just did not feel the "chemistry", which is also fine. I would say that strategy does not work if you are only staying for a few days, unless you are only seeing a few girls. I spent 2 weeks, (3 weekends) , going to the south (Dnipro / Zapo / kherson / Niko / Odessa) and the east (kharkov / donetstk) during the weekdays.

It is definitely nicer to visit one of these smaller cities if you have someone to show you around. In the smaller cities I met 2-3 girls in each; my strategy was if they put put on the first night, I stayed a second one, if not, I got some professional help and moved on the next day. My range was from 21 to 36, all beautiful.

One thing is for sure, if there is a little chemistry, and the girl thinks that you are being honest (and like I said, I was, even if I an still single, and here) , she will definitely give you everything in the bedroom.

Has anyone used Elena's Models dating site with any success recently?

I will be visiting Ukraine in October and am starting to make connections to prospects.

Mostly I am looking for "nice girls" and MILFs to seduce. I think I understand the P4P market reasonably well.

I used Elenas Models several years ago with some success, but have no idea of how useful it is now.

One thing I like about it is that it has a high ratio of Ukrainian women vs Russian women, who dominate some other sites.

The other thing I like is that the women tend to specify an interest in a wider (meaning older!) range of guys than some other sites.

Now, whether they are just more open-minded about who to date, or whether they have been advised to say so, I don't know.

I am over 50, but advertise myself as being slightly under. I will be in Kiev and another city yet to be determined (not my choice).

Thanks for any advice stemming from actual experience with this web-site.