Vienna

[QUOTE=MassimoPotente;2251817]Thank you for your input!

Personally, I am pretty sure they aren't fake at all. FP has become cheaper as a parachute to survive. Had they become better they wouldn't have been forced to install the coupon system to begin with. The hygiene has not improved. Food has but now seeing that you have to pay for it, you needn't compare it to GT's food (which isn't good) or Babylon's food (which is outstanding) but to a normal restaurant instead. So, Food at FP was never good when it was free and now it is ok when you pay for it.

Here is an actual and factual example why comparing FP to any other of the clubs is not working: the same girl has worked Babylon Klagenfurt and Babylon Vienna, Wellcum (not in Vienna), Globe (not even in Austria), Maxim, GT and Funpalast. FP is the only place to which she appears with her hair not washed and her nails not done and nobody of the management will notice or care. Yes, there are more girls at FP now and more new girls there now, too. And it makes sense to go there every once in a while to check out what is new, I do it just as well. But girls go as they come. And there is way more to say critically if one wanted to discuss how girls come to work for a day and leave after a day but this isn't the place to give a philosophy lecture or an insight into the prostitution law.

If a club decides to disrupt the market by giving coupons away it is not likely that any real improvement can ever come out of there. Yes, total number of customers has grown significantly but to what end? This adds nothing to an aching market.

I am also critical of the other clubs because they have not at all dealt with FP's change of system as they should've early last year. I think they didn't take it seriously or something. But maybe I am too far removed with my own porfession to still understand the inner thinking of brothel managers.

One more thought. "Especially more clients who stay for short or medium periods (2-5 hours) at the club. " I am one of them and now I spend less time and less money at FP as I ever did before. I leave early because at later hours, particularly on the weekend, the atmosphere at FP has become predictably unbearable in my POV. The money that I spend less at FP now, I spend more at other places.

Arnold15, maybe it would be helpful to mention the names of the girls who you sessioned with and had a good time with and also point out the one bad apple for people to avoid her.[/QUOTE]I think this is a good answer to explain your point of view, which I had not fully grasped. The girls do look cleaner at GT now that you mention it, I had not thought of that before, but the FP girls I have been with were clean.

About the late night atmosphere, I have never been there that long, into the late night, so I did not experience it, however when I first visited FP in 2013, some Austrian guys there were complaining about the atmosphere and clientelle at GT, I am not saying they were right, but these complaints happen at all FKKs.

Let me ask you one question, I do understand your point of view now and agree with a lot of it, however what is the second best FKK / Saunaclub in Vienna? I would always choose GT first, however all the reports of upselling has put me off a bit.

[QUOTE=MassimoPotente;2251817]The hygiene has not improved. [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Arnold15;2251632]* 5 Euro for 2 extra towels.[/QUOTE]This might be one of the reasons why hygiene hasn't improved.

I already mentioned Clarissa (Greece), 1 session, and Ella (Romania), 2 sessions.

I would have sessioned Clarissa once more if she had been available.

Note that these 2 girls may not be demanded by some men. I prefer at least (6-8) good looking, but with "calm personality" and good service attitude much more important.

Real bad: Mia (Romania). Wanted to have payment before room, "do not do this or that", after happy ending she said suddenly "goodbye" and went out of room, etc.

I was not even angry. I only laughed. Next day, she wanted another session, not understanding that the first was awful.

However, none of the girls were "unwashed".

For both Clarissa and Ella, I had to wait 20-30 minutes when they prepared themselves in the ladies room.

The system with coupons will soon be exported to Germany. Competition between clubs is fierce in Germany. I consider this as a good innovative idea rather than disrupting the market. In a free market, firms can use any entry fee strategy and observe which one works best.

Also outsourcing of restaurant to external firms in other clubs = increased efficiency. Now, you can decide how long you stay and how much you consume. Earlier you had to stay the whole day - otherwise entry fee would have been a big loss.

Food, I compare with other FKK:s in Germany. And it is good now at FP.

[QUOTE=MassimoPotente;2251817]Thank you for your input!

Personally, I am pretty sure they aren't fake at all. FP has become cheaper as a parachute to survive. Had they become better they wouldn't have been forced to install the coupon system to begin with. The hygiene has not improved. Food has but now seeing that you have to pay for it, you needn't compare it to GT's food (which isn't good) or Babylon's food (which is outstanding) but to a normal restaurant instead. So, Food at FP was never good when it was free and now it is ok when you pay for it.

Here is an actual and factual example why comparing FP to any other of the clubs is not working: the same girl has worked Babylon Klagenfurt and Babylon Vienna, Wellcum (not in Vienna), Globe (not even in Austria), Maxim, GT and Funpalast. FP is the only place to which she appears with her hair not washed and her nails not done and nobody of the management will notice or care. Yes, there are more girls at FP now and more new girls there now, too. And it makes sense to go there every once in a while to check out what is new, I do it just as well. But girls go as they come. And there is way more to say critically if one wanted to discuss how girls come to work for a day and leave after a day but this isn't the place to give a philosophy lecture or an insight into the prostitution law.

If a club decides to disrupt the market by giving coupons away it is not likely that any real improvement can ever come out of there. Yes, total number of customers has grown significantly but to what end? This adds nothing to an aching market.

I am also critical of the other clubs because they have not at all dealt with FP's change of system as they should've early last year. I think they didn't take it seriously or something. But maybe I am too far removed with my own porfession to still understand the inner thinking of brothel managers.

One more thought. "Especially more clients who stay for short or medium periods (2-5 hours) at the club. " I am one of them and now I spend less time and less money at FP as I ever did before. I leave early because at later hours, particularly on the weekend, the atmosphere at FP has become predictably unbearable in my POV. The money that I spend less at FP now, I spend more at other places.

Arnold15, maybe it would be helpful to mention the names of the girls who you sessioned with and had a good time with and also point out the one bad apple for people to avoid her.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Arnold15;2251867]
The system with coupons will soon be exported to Germany.[/QUOTE]I think it will the go into the history books as the day "when hell froze over". In all seriousness, I highly doubt that clubs like Sharks, Goldentime Brüggen in Germany, Artemis in Berlin, Palace in Frankfurt or even OASE and Mainhattan, which definitely have seen more successful days, will be desperate enough to do such a thing. They should rather seek to increase quality of things than fighting the low-budget game where everyone always only loses in the end.

[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2251864] but the FP girls I have been with were clean.[/QUOTE]And they aren't dirty. I hope it didn't sound like that. But they will not dress up for the coupon crowd. I couldn't believe it at first when it occured to me but it is undeniably true that the outfits differ greatly depending on where the very same lady is working.

[QUOTE]
Let me ask you one question, I do understand your point of view now and agree with a lot of it, however what is the second best FKK / Saunaclub in Vienna? I would always choose GT first, however all the reports of upselling has put me off a bit.[/QUOTE]FP is definitely second best if money and costs are not in the equation. Fresh is 3rd and there aren't more than those 3.

[QUOTE=MassimoPotente;2251870]I think it will the go into the history books as the day "when hell froze over". In all seriousness, I highly doubt that clubs like Sharks, Goldentime Brggen in Germany, Artemis in Berlin, Palace in Frankfurt or even OASE and Mainhattan, which definitely have seen more successful days, will be desperate enough to do such a thing. They should rather seek to increase quality of things than fighting the low-budget game where everyone always only loses in the end.[/QUOTE]Low-budget game does not automatically mean that quality decreases.

1) In the case of FP, clients get more value for money than before.

2) Also the FP club seems to make more money than before (earlier "red figures" according to your reports).

3) And the girls can make more money. I spent much time talking with the girls about the new entry fee system. Everybody said it was better.

So all these three groups (clients, club and girls) at FP have benefitted from the new entry fee system.

Who has become the loser by introducing the new entry fee?

Correct answer: Other clubs in Vienna.

The clock is clinging for many clubs in Duesseldorf and Frankfurt.
Not for Artemis, since it has a "monopoly" in Berlin.

[QUOTE=Arnold15;2251882]

The clock is clinging for many clubs in Duesseldorf and Frankfurt.
Not for Artemis, since it has a "monopoly" in Berlin.[/QUOTE]Sharks is killing it for a bunch of years already without a monopoly of any kind. If anything they are only getting better.

Let's agree to disagree and let's see if any club in my list will need to do a similar thing. It would be a surprise to me but who I am to predict the future or the FKK landscape in Germany. I would accept quite a few wagers though. I like my chances on that bet.

GT has silently increased the half hour rate with the upselling and it seems to turn out fine for the girls. It's inconvenient for us but they hardly seem the loser in this low-budget game. Problably because they are not playing it.

Heh, Artemis seems to fall due it lack of local competition actually. While the clubs that has more local competition is thriving.

If any coupon system would start to take over, it would need to be like the Macau sauna coupons. Not the Vienna style coupons. And I only see this happening if Germany and Austria removes physical currency and goes all digital.

I am not up to date on the cost at FP, but calling this game low cost in Vienna these days is in best case a distortion of truth. Low cost is Philippines or pattaya where you can bang a girl for 15 euro by having her come to your hotel. 150-200 for one session, entry cost included. As it is now at GT Vienna, it is ten times what I consider low cost. But of course, numbers are arbitrary. And humans normally compares one price to a price elsewhere of the same good.

Say you buy a flawless Yubari melon at a market in Japan, 1000 usd can sometimes be considered cheap. But if you see a cantaloupe melon in your local Aldi for 1000 usd, you double check your eyes to see if there is a comma in there.

[QUOTE=Pistons;2252820]Heh, Artemis seems to fall due it lack of local competition actually. While the clubs that has more local competition is thriving.

If any coupon system would start to take over, it would need to be like the Macau sauna coupons. Not the Vienna style coupons. And I only see this happening if Germany and Austria removes physical currency and goes all digital.

I am not up to date on the cost at FP, but calling this game low cost in Vienna these days is in best case a distortion of truth. Low cost is Philippines or pattaya where you can bang a girl for 15 euro by having her come to your hotel. 150-200 for one session, entry cost included. As it is now at GT Vienna, it is ten times what I consider low cost. But of course, numbers are arbitrary. And humans normally compares one price to a price elsewhere of the same good.

Say you buy a flawless Yubari melon at a market in Japan, 1000 usd can sometimes be considered cheap. But if you see a cantaloupe melon in your local Aldi for 1000 usd, you double check your eyes to see if there is a comma in there.[/QUOTE]I already know it is a mistake to engage in such conversation but hey, I'll try to play along one single time hopefully.

There is no such thing like a "Vienna style coupon". This is an FP idea (not the worst one almost a decade ago to do them monhtly, now it is an everyday thing) which came out of dire straits that they were in. For the longest time they wanted to be and stay a full functioning sauna club with all the mechanics of one including normal entry fee and normal half hour rates and drinks and food plus wellness amenities included. They couldn't maintain it and here we are debating. It was either shutting it down or lowering the price significantly.

Now, I find it far fetched to think that anything like that could "take over" since it is inherently wrong to pay a girl, prostitute, lady, person in coupons. Fair enough, they can exchange them into money, it's all good but of course they lost 10 right there. In addition to that the FP ladies now have to pay a higher entry fee than they ever did before. Fair enough, it is business, so it is all good.

The new entry fee system seems to attract a lot of new ladies which would seem to finally be a contribution that we could see as beneficial but how long do those ladies really stay in FP. There is an increasing number of girls who come to Vienna and start out at FP and Fresh, only waiting to be accepted to work at other clubs. It usually takes a week until they can wander off and so they often do. When you are drowning, keeping your head above the water is a clear success. Long term strategy might be a little more complicated and challenging.

I distance myself from the low-cost comparison made for Pattaya, Phillipines and cantaloupe and melon theories which do not apply to this market.

Might make sense to try understand what the girls want. Much like many of us, some ladies will prefer a smaller number of good (comfortable, easy and profitable) sessions. If possible paid cash and not paper. Even if at the end of the day sometimes more money can be made with the coupons, this might also mean more headache. We all speak to the ladies regularly. They are torn, there is no clear verdict whether this is a curse or the remedy. But I think generosity is going to be scoring points with them always.

[URL]https://www.studiorelaxe-lounge.at/index.php?p=1_187_Antonia[/URL]

Showed up around 6 pm on a weekday. Rang the bell and got buzzed in. Walked down a small flight of stairs to a desk and a small room with girls sitting in lingerie. Maybe six girls stood up in the main room to form a lineup for me. I chose Antonia based on nice body shape and smile. She's older in the face than what is on the website, bit otherwise pics are accurate.

She led me to a room and I asked about Naturservice. She said it would be 20€ extra, just like it says on the website. I paid for a half hour, so 90€ total and she left the room. It was a small room with a bed and a standup shower. I got naked and would have gotten in the shower, bit there were no towels. She came back in a couple of minutes and gave me a towel. I took a quick shower while we chatted and she put a sheet on the bed. Her English is pretty good so it was easy to talk with her.

Onto the bed where we kissed lightly. Really just pecks, so no DFK. She has absolutely fantastic skin. Super smooth and silky. I loved running my hands over her the entire time. She started a decent BBBJ. Good with her tongue, but no eye contact. I had her get on top for some CG. My hands and mouth all over her breasts, which are very nice. And that skin! Flipped for mish. Flipped again for K9. Finished with a nice CIP.

We relaxed and talked for a while afterward. Both showered. She didn't seem to be in any rush. Got a hug and a kiss and was out the door in maybe 35-40 minutes total.

I guess it's sort of like an RTC session in NRW. Only twice as expensive, if you include entry fees at RTCs. I don't think you hang out there for any length of time. Just get in and out. I could be wrong.

MP: you didn't really add anything new there though, hehe.

You could have written down the new prices. Aside from that, it seems we agree on everything. Even the coupon system. We just weigh our words differently. So it ends up being just rethorics.

[URL]https://www.studiorelaxe-lounge.at/index.php?p=1_206_Julia[/URL]

Had a little bit of time to kill, so I figured I would try another girl here. I would have liked to try Studio Relaxe and La Chica, but this place was the easiest for me to get to.

I picked Julia out of a lineup of maybe 8 girls for her slim figure and pretty face. Same deal as last time. 70 for a half hour, plus 20 for Naturservice mit Reinspritzen.

She looks just like her pics. Pecks for kisses. BBBJ was average at best. BBFS was good, bit she used a bit too much lube. She's a pretty small girl, so maybe she does that to prevent pain. Made it through the usual positions until I finished CIP in K9. An average session with a pretty girl. I wouldn't repeat.

[QUOTE=Triptogamont;2253321][URL]https://www.studiorelaxe-lounge.at/index.php?p=1_206_Julia[/URL]

Had a little bit of time to kill, so I figured I would try another girl here. I would have liked to try Studio Relaxe and La Chica, but this place was the easiest for me to get to.

I picked Julia out of a lineup of maybe 8 girls for her slim figure and pretty face. Same deal as last time. 70 for a half hour, plus 20 for Naturservice mit Reinspritzen.

She looks just like her pics. Pecks for kisses. BBBJ was average at best. BBFS was good, bit she used a bit too much lube. She's a pretty small girl, so maybe she does that to prevent pain. Made it through the usual positions until I finished CIP in K9. An average session with a pretty girl. I wouldn't repeat.[/QUOTE]Thanks for the 2 reports. I have been researching Vienna here and on a German board. Julia was one I was considering. Did you have any trouble with language? Webpage says little German. I know Naturservice mit Reinspritzen means AO and I tried to translate on google, came out as Natural service with clean spray. Keeps the reports coming. Are you trying any of the Asian places, such as [URL]http://www.studio-jasmin.at[/URL]? Price seems good at those but many German board reports of mostly fake pics and much older ladies.

No, entry fees for girls at FP has not changed. I asked very carefully about this at my last visit.

Before coupon system, girls paid 90 Euro in entry fee.

With new coupon susyem, girls pay also 90 Euro in entry fee.

Yes, girls lose 10 Euro for client's first room.

But there are 2-3 times more clients now. So girls are definitely better off.

When James Watt introduced the steam machinery in the 18th century, those ineffcient workers who lost their jobs, called this "disrupting the market". But everyone else understand that this was an innovative idea raising the overall welfare.

The point with the innovative Coupon system at FP is that all three groups (clients, club and girls) at FP have benefitted from the new entry fee system!

[QUOTE=MassimoPotente;2253102]I already know it is a mistake to engage in such conversation but hey, I'll try to play along one single time hopefully.

There is no such thing like a "Vienna style coupon". This is an FP idea (not the worst one almost a decade ago to do them monhtly, now it is an everyday thing) which came out of dire straits that they were in. For the longest time they wanted to be and stay a full functioning sauna club with all the mechanics of one including normal entry fee and normal half hour rates and drinks and food plus wellness amenities included. They couldn't maintain it and here we are debating. It was either shutting it down or lowering the price significantly.

Now, I find it far fetched to think that anything like that could "take over" since it is inherently wrong to pay a girl, prostitute, lady, person in coupons. Fair enough, they can exchange them into money, it's all good but of course they lost 10 right there. In addition to that the FP ladies now have to pay a higher entry fee than they ever did before. Fair enough, it is business, so it is all good.

The new entry fee system seems to attract a lot of new ladies which would seem to finally be a contribution that we could see as beneficial but how long do those ladies really stay in FP. There is an increasing number of girls who come to Vienna and start out at FP and Fresh, only waiting to be accepted to work at other clubs. It usually takes a week until they can wander off and so they often do. When you are drowning, keeping your head above the water is a clear success. Long term strategy might be a little more complicated and challenging.

I distance myself from the low-cost comparison made for Pattaya, Phillipines and cantaloupe and melon theories which do not apply to this market.[/QUOTE]