Kyiv

[TinyHippo]

Having spent the last 2 years in Poland and Ukraine I am surprised myself to conclude that Polish girls are on average more beautiful than Ukrainians.

I mean I can't walk around large cities in Poland without seeing such beautiful girls every few minutes, the like of which I can only remember in Scandinavia. But this may have a lot to do with the fact that Poles today have more money to beautify themselves.

And of course what's so good about Polish girls when they are much harder to get anyway?

Oh, and Polish girls are also hanging in London until Brexit, lol.

If you prefer blondes, I can see that. I prefer brunettes. So, I am more into Ukrainians. Polish girls have a little bit more money and dress nicer. So, that is probably why they are much harder to get. I have had that experience too. Also, don't forget there are so many Ukrainians in Poland. Sometimes 10-15% of the university population is Ukrainian.

[Sorbonne]

As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.

Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.

At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.

My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow.

I don't fly to Kiev to fuck average girls and I've been doing Kiev and before that Dontesek for the last 9 years. Flying to Kiev from London isn't an annual vacation nor do I need a second Mortgage. With my social well established connections we always end up having a ball at much cheaper prices than London or Houston.

According to Numbeo. Prices in Moscow are much Higher than the 20 or 30% you are quoting https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...yCurrency=USD..

Going out to Restaurants "Restaurant Prices in Kiev are 42.53% lower than in Moscow".

You would need around 1,740.06 $ (48,485. 63&#8372 in Kiev to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 2,672.69 $ (180,000. 00р1091;1073 in Moscow (assuming you rent in both cities).

I know prices are not set in stone. But there you have it.

Further recent observations on the subject with figures are most welcome.

Having spent the last 2 years in Poland and Ukraine I am surprised myself to conclude that Polish girls are on average more beautiful than Ukrainians.

I mean I can't walk around large cities in Poland without seeing such beautiful girls every few minutes, the like of which I can only remember in Scandinavia. But this may have a lot to do with the fact that Poles today have more money to beautify themselves.

And of course what's so good about Polish girls when they are much harder to get anyway?

Oh, and Polish girls are also hanging in London until Brexit, lol.

[Jojosun]

DramaFree11,

To fuck UA girls one needs to fly to the main source, a very simple reason.

[DramaFree11]

As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.

Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.

At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.

My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow..

I also respect you and your post are usually spot on unlike others. Easy solution join. I will also be in Moscow, Dec. 20-Jan. 2 and I will also be there late Jan.

Couple of points my apartment in the center of Moscow will be $45-55 a night in the center. Uber is not expensive. If you drink Vodka, it is just not that expensive in Rest. And Bars. I use to hang out in Famous and Buddha Bar in Kiev, just not that much more expensive. That being said I do check the prices before I order. Another big difference in Moscow girls sometimes pay and you are expected to pay for there friends. Many times people have bought me drinks in Russia, this very rarely happens in Kiev. Most Cubs there is no Cover, so you save money there. I do tip the doorman, but I did that in Kiev as well, makes a big difference.

As far as girls there is zero comparison tall Skinny girls all over. I have to stick with average at best in Kiev, if you have local knowledge slightly better. For a newbie probably bellow average. No reason to fly around the world for Kiev girls. Other destinations defiantly yes.

[Jojosun]

Good post, great question. Moscow is 100 times better. Beautiful women are everywhere, I mean everywhere. Less scans and less fake profiles.

Very active nightlife, busy at least three nights a week, in Kiev maybe there's one decent night. Currently Moscow is only 20 to 30% more expensive then Kiev. Also, people can be very rude at first but then they're nice after you get to know.

Girls are attainable and approachable, And like foreign guys. Moscow is much better, I love the energy and the people.

I would say the only drawback, is people in Moscow can be a little racist, But if you dress appropriately, you'll have no problems And behave.

If you want to have fun go to Moscow, if you want to be bored stay in Kiev, and hook up with average looking girls. I will be there in two weeks and again in December anybody wants to join me text me. Happy to help.

As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.

Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.

At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.

My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow.

I don't fly to Kiev to fuck average girls and I've been doing Kiev and before that Dontesek for the last 9 years. Flying to Kiev from London isn't an annual vacation nor do I need a second Mortgage. With my social well established connections we always end up having a ball at much cheaper prices than London or Houston.

According to Numbeo. Prices in Moscow are much Higher than the 20 or 30% you are quoting https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...yCurrency=USD..

Going out to Restaurants "Restaurant Prices in Kiev are 42.53% lower than in Moscow".

You would need around 1,740.06 $ (48,485. 63&#8372 in Kiev to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 2,672.69 $ (180,000. 00р1091;1073 in Moscow (assuming you rent in both cities).

I know prices are not set in stone. But there you have it.

Further recent observations on the subject with figures are most welcome.

[DramaFree11]

Its been 4 days and you could hear a pin drop on this thread as I don' t think anyone who knows the Kiev scene well could've disputed most of the main points in your observations.

Just few points to bear in mind.

Unlike The US and many countries, Prostitution isn't illegal in London & The UK but other activities associated with it are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pros...United_Kingdom.

Nowhere and I mean Nowhere in (Eastern or Central Europe) at present compares to Kiev when it comes to the availability & number of attractive (Semi Pro Girls, my main interest in Kiev) who are available for sponsoring. Maybe Moscow or SP, European part of Russia are in the same league or even better. But I wouldn't know as Russia sounds to me as a much harder nut to crack compared to Kiev.

Anyone with solid experience of both Kiev and Moscow, SP, please post your observations, comparisons with facts & figures relating to the total cost of a mongering experience.

Good post, great question. Moscow is 100 times better. Beautiful women are everywhere, I mean everywhere. Less scans and less fake profiles.

Very active nightlife, busy at least three nights a week, in Kiev maybe there's one decent night. Currently Moscow is only 20 to 30% more expensive then Kiev. Also, people can be very rude at first but then they're nice after you get to know.

Girls are attainable and approachable, And like foreign guys. Moscow is much better, I love the energy and the people.

I would say the only drawback, is people in Moscow can be a little racist, But if you dress appropriately, you'll have no problems And behave.

If you want to have fun go to Moscow, if you want to be bored stay in Kiev, and hook up with average looking girls. I will be there in two weeks and again in December anybody wants to join me text me. Happy to help.

[Jojosun]

Without pretending to know the ultimate truth about Nowadays Kiev, or providing the concise info on Clubs, Apartments or even URLs on specific ladies, please allow me to share some thoughts on related topics and forgive me for errors and mistakes in my logical conclusions, I am human after all.

What are the typical categories of mongers in Kiev?

1. Newbies, first timers.

2. Short term visitors on a tight budget.

3. Short term visitors with deeper pockets.

4. Return visitors with significant success in the past and established base on the ground.

5. Expats and locals.

Its been 4 days and you could hear a pin drop on this thread as I don' t think anyone who knows the Kiev scene well could've disputed most of the main points in your observations.

Just few points to bear in mind.

Unlike The US and many countries, Prostitution isn't illegal in London & The UK but other activities associated with it are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pros...United_Kingdom.

Nowhere and I mean Nowhere in (Eastern or Central Europe) at present compares to Kiev when it comes to the availability & number of attractive (Semi Pro Girls, my main interest in Kiev) who are available for sponsoring. Maybe Moscow or SP, European part of Russia are in the same league or even better. But I wouldn't know as Russia sounds to me as a much harder nut to crack compared to Kiev.

Anyone with solid experience of both Kiev and Moscow, SP, please post your observations, comparisons with facts & figures relating to the total cost of a mongering experience.

[PhotoSlider]

Without pretending to know the ultimate truth about Nowadays Kiev, or providing the concise info on Clubs, Apartments or even URLs on specific ladies, please allow me to share some thoughts on related topics and forgive me for errors and mistakes in my logical conclusions, I am human after all.

What are the typical categories of mongers in Kiev?

1. Newbies, first timers.

2. Short term visitors on a tight budget.

3. Short term visitors with deeper pockets.

4. Return visitors with significant success in the past and established base on the ground.

5. Expats and locals.

6. Remote observers, online masturbators and commentators making unsolicited assumptions and conclusions.

7. Liers and wannabe artists.

We are not interested in the last 2 categories. 1 may overlap with 2 or 3.

There are also other dimensions:

1. Language.

2. Knowledge of local culture.

3. Character.

4. Game.

5. Fitness level.

6. Age.

7. Attractiveness or success with opposite gender.

8. Prowess, virility, masculinity.

Then there are requirements for targeted commodity:

1. 1-10 rating, as subjective as it is.

2. Significance of Acronyms.

3. Preferred modus operandi: one girls for the duration or multiple acts every day, including threesomes and switching partners.

4. Traveling internationally or staying within Ukraine.

5. Strictly Kiev or venturing wider.

The above shows how impossible it is to compare apples to oranges, and strawberries to passion fruits.

Yet there are certain trends and tendencies. Some of us cannot get enough and right after leaving Kiev want to get back as soon as possible, others are disappointed to put it mildly.

One thing we all can agree though. One way or the other, Ukrainian ladies are rather skillful in separating us from our hard earned cash.

Another concept is not that obvious. Allow me to attempt an explanation:

What are the options for single males in countries where democracy is strong and women are rampant protecting their inseparable rights? Say in Chicago or London or Rome, where prostitution is illegal?

1. Escorts with exorbitant prices and uneven service quality levels.

2. Strip clubs.

3. Massage parlors with happy endings.

4. Clubs and Bars.

The first 3 categories cheat and extort, while LE is doing their job fighting abuse and related crime.

The latter category is compartmentalized into gay bars, student clubs, progressive music establishments, and so on and so forth.

Can the person in mid-50's or even mid 30's walk into club or bar with predominantly student crowd? Yes, but with not much success. But we expect that to work in Kiev. And not just that. We, tourists with certain tastes, expect the Ukrainian ladies to congregate in certain designated places that ARE FAMILIAR TO US, but we want to go quite a few steps further: DFK, DS, BBBJ, DATY, etc.

Well, P4 P has existed in Kiev for centuries, but not all of the above categories are native or acceptable to Ukrainian ladies. We keep asking for hunting at clubs and bars. Well, ask and you shall receive, but you will pay dearly and may not be happy in the end because your lady goes through the motions, and portray passion in the most unconvincing way while looking at the ceiling absentmindedly, or shorts you and leaves.

You wanted to pick up a girl at the bar or a strip club? You wanted to extend the illusion they sell you for 20 bucks in your filthy Midwestern hometown strip club in Bumblefuck, Iowa and have an Eastern European beauty do everything as you please? Maybe she will, but don't be surprised if she doesn't, because your desires and especially the environment that is so familiar to you, is foreign to her.

Yes, Kiev businessmen built Arena to make good money, and they run well oiled machine at Rio and other locations all over the place. There is a demand, they listened and provided. For revenue.

Those of us who listened, and observed and analyzed objectively, and tried to understand what resonates with objects of our true desires, were able to get integrated into the natural fabric of local life and fuse it into the new hybrid, that exists for the last 10-15 years and is unlike anything else on this planet.

Can I describe it? I try and fail. Perhaps Rog123, Jojosun, JyMondor, Kozerog, Prosal, Littlejoey and many others who left this Forum, can do so much better than I explaining The Kiev Phenomenon.

Interestingly enough AFAIK Kozerog and Jymondor do not go to Clubs, Bars and Strip Joints for hunting. Neither do I anymore.

Hope this flow of conscience makes some sense to a thoughtful reader.

Respectfully yours,

PhotoSlider.

[Jojosun]

Thought it was you, Jojo. Never mind my length response then.

Enjoyed reading your thoughts on Rural life and it wasn't wasted. I hope the sender of that PM to me demanding to be spoon fed info reads it.

General advice. Would be mongers and other dreamers of easy sex in Kiev who need Visas to visit Ukraine, stay in the city centre or close.

[PhotoSlider]

...There's a lot of illiterate fake marketing "comments" by GIA management positioned as customer feedback...

Just noticed that KEC-GIA removed relatively recent honest comments, that could potentially hurt some of the girls chances of getting booked. They still keep positive comments for multiple years back, and place their own with poor English, but I question credibility of this commercial entity even more now.

There are 42 girls on site today, not that much more than before, yet the highest I remember since October 2015.

It also appears that GIA-KEC girls exchange information internally about us hobbyists.

I wouldn't be surprised to see proliferation of industrious self-organized students and young office workers competing and undercutting KEC-GIA similar to what Riina's source of Ukrainian beauties does in Chicago.

[PhotoSlider]

Clarification. The request above landed in my inbox via PM from a newbie. My advice to go Rural was in response to it.

Thought it was you, Jojo. Never mind my length response then.

[PhotoSlider]

...I need to know where one can find the best girls the best clubs and *houses. Is it better to stay in Kiev or go to some rural areas where I can try farm girls?...

Creative idea.

When some of us go to Tijuana, do they ever venture further deep into rural Mexico? Same for Columbia or Thailand. I think we expect girls to get to us, not vise versa.

Are you fluent in Ukrainian or Russian? Do you enjoy rural life? Can you be useful for community there? Do you see yourself relocated from LA or NYC to greener pastures in the hope of seeing more peasant girls and not get beaten by their local admirers?

IMHO this would require a substantial mindset transformation, and while benefits might increase few orders of magnitude in terms of expenses, you would loose big city's anonymity, that is ability to easily disappear in the crowd when admiration is over or something.

Certainly worth a try for 2-4 weeks, not shorter, but not for a 3-6 months, unless you are looking for a truly long term commitment.

Where? Anywhere! There must be tours. I wouldn't go too far away from Kiev or transportation hubs. Maybe tourist and resort locations. Perhaps study crime density maps, staying away from known trouble spots, away from the East and borders in general.

Having a reliable local scout / guide is a must. Hire 18-21 beauty as your native speaker-interpreter-language teacher. Could be fun, especially if one of your local GFs would provide a landing pad, and will not be jealous about your field studies.

I guess I didn't say anything new. YouTube has some examples of such travels.

[Jojosun]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQEASjIcHs

Its in the Title. In reply to this " Hey there Jojosun, got some inquiries.

I'm actually applying for a visa to visit ukraine for sex tourism. I need to know where one can find the best girls the best clubs and *houses. Is it better to stay in Kiev or go to some rural areas where I can try farm girls?

Update me with what you know".

Clarification. The request above landed in my inbox via PM from a newbie. My advice to go Rural was in response to it.

[Jojosun]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQEASjIcHs

Its in the Title. In reply to this " Hey there Jojosun, got some inquiries.

I'm actually applying for a visa to visit ukraine for sex tourism. I need to know where one can find the best girls the best clubs and *houses. Is it better to stay in Kiev or go to some rural areas where I can try farm girls?

Update me with what you know".

[DramaFree11]

It all depends on success criteria. Somehow I was as happy or significantly happier in November 2017 and Fall of 2018 as compared to Kiev in 2003, 2007, 2008 or post River Palace Era in 2011-2016.2015-2016 seemed like the most expensive period in Kiev.

Most importantly because of establishing my own harem, as well as better understanding how the whole Ukrainian Universe revolves, changes and operates,- what drives it in the most efficient manner and how to avoid the potholes.

Kiev, was still good up until about 5-7 years ago. You might want to read others opinion about Kiev.