Stupid shit in Medellin

[JustTK]

You want me to be more respectful? Respect is a two way street. If you want it, you need to be willing to give it.

Twice I responded to your post giving specific examples to counter your claims. Did you address any of the points I made? Not one. All you did was complain I was mean to you. I readily admit my tone was rude. I have a very low tolerance for insupportable statements and you made a few. Let's revisit them.

I'm going to paraphrase. Some people won't get vaccinated because the long term effectiveness is unknown.

There's only one thing where the long term effectiveness is certain, death. I think you mentioned eating healthy and keeping in shape in one post. The cemeteries are full of people who ate healthy and kept fit. Those types of risk management behaviors improve the life expectancy of the group, but there will always be individuals who fall outside the curve.

Getting vaccinated may only protect you for 6 months, or you might get hit by a bus 2 weeks later. What percentage of people in ICU on ventilators wish they had gotten vaccinated? What percentage are glad they didn't get vaccinated?

I think that's enough. If you want to have a respectful, friendly discussion, then address the points I've made. Show how they are invalid.

When you respond to a comment straight out of the gate with an insult, you are not going to get any respect back. You have already started down a one-way road.

Twice I responded to your post giving specific examples to counter your claims. Did you address any of the points I made? Not one. All you did was complain I was mean to you. I readily admit my tone was rude.

Often I do not respond to insults and rudeness.

I have a very low tolerance for insupportable statements and you made a few. Let's revisit them.

I'm going to paraphrase. Some people won't get vaccinated because the long term effectiveness is unknown.

There's only one thing where the long term effectiveness is certain, death. I think you mentioned eating healthy and keeping in shape in one post. The cemeteries are full of people who ate healthy and kept fit. Those types of risk management behaviors improve the life expectancy of the group, but there will always be individuals who fall outside the curve.

Getting vaccinated may only protect you for 6 months, or you might get hit by a bus 2 weeks later. What percentage of people in ICU on ventilators wish they had gotten vaccinated? What percentage are glad they didn't get vaccinated?

I think that's enough. If you want to have a respectful, friendly discussion, then address the points I've made. Show how they are invalid.

I am not sure where or what your counter is. It seems that you are agreeing with me that the long term effectiveness is unknown, that good health increases life expectancy. You haven't countered any claim that I made, you have agreed with them. I cannot show how your points are invalid bcos I agree.

"What percentage of people in ICU on ventilators wish they had gotten vaccinated? What percentage are glad they didn't get vaccinated?

I have no idea. Any guess would be wild speculation. Nor do I know what % of people in ICU have been vaccinated.

[JustTK]

It's not arrogance. If someone is saying or doing something stupid, they need to be informed they are being stupid. If they continue, then they require constant reminders.

Let's start with your claim that the vaccine has killed thousands and ElVirus' claim it has hospitalized thousands.

And so it goes on! Really, you're incredible! I never once claimed that the vaccine has killed thousands. I really can't be bothered to read the rest of your diatribe if you can't even get the first premise correct. "You need to be informed that you are being stupid. ".

[MarquisdeSade1]

Oh and I do have a lot of respect for China.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/15/o...gtype=Homepage

[PVMonger]

Wow! This was an epic comeback. The problem with JJBee and the other impassioned Democrats whom I call Democratic douches is their arrogance. They have blamed Trump for all the deaths in America, rode it to a victory, proclaimed their allies didn't steal the election (when it could have easily been stolen), and are now turning that same partisan tactics on with the vaccines. Blue states are vaccinating more than red which mean Democrats are smarter than Republicans.

Of course, the Republican partisan folks do not trust the media and medical guard like Fauci who ousted their beloved leader. They think and are right to mistrust the medical establishment, but the vaccine really was not from the medical establishment but the private sector. However, the pharmacy leaders getting a lawsuit exemption is a tough pill to swallow, and I think they should have had a modification such that people could sue but with a limit on damages. Nonetheless, the benefits of getting the vaccine outweigh the risks for most people..

RepubliKKKans, including the orange buffoon, were against any form of mitigation (masks, distancing, etc) and for vaccines before the orange buffoon got kicked to the curb, now they won't get vaccinated because of, well, who knows? Most of them are just plain obstreperous. Or stupid.

Look at what is happening in red states like Tennessee. Vaccine outreach has been terminated by RepubliKKKans. Why? Makes no sense. Unless being contrary is the goal. But, in reality, who cares? They're just going to kill their own voters!

That COVID cases are rising is no fluke and you are correct on that. The R0 of the delta variant is at least 3 x more infectious than the original (6 vs 2). Do the math if you can. The results will astound you.

All but one at one hospital had been vaccinated? I highly doubt it, especially because you provided no proof (just like Tucker "Your a moron if you believe anything I say" Carlson). The facts are that COVID cases are exploding in states with the lowest vaccination rates. All of those states voted for the orange buffoon. People who aren't getting vaccinated are risking their lives, their parent's lives, etc.

The vaccine has side effects? Big whoop because every vaccine has side effects. Way more than we're being told? How do you know? Were you told? Or did you make it up? Or get your info from some conspiracy theory web site? Rather than spouting raw numbers as your justification, why not use percentages? 170 million people in the US have received at least 1 dose of the vaccine. 750 people have died. What is that percentage? 750 people have died after getting the vaccine? Or 750 deaths can be directly linked to receiving the vaccine? Big difference.

[JjBee62]

I also find it highly arrogant that people resort to insults so easily, just bcos someone else has a different view. They don't even take the time to understand what the other person writes. As you say, politics has taken a strong grip in the USA (and I suspect most here are USAns), which means that there is only room for 2 views in most people's minds. Yet covid has made a mockery of nearly all political positions. I certainly don't think either party in the USA has a commendable position on COVID and my own is different to both.

It is true that cases are rising again in some unexpected places. UK for example (one of the countries with the highest vax rates) is experiencing very high cases again. It seems the vaxes have lowered death rates but have not prevented spread. And in that environment there is no way that the virus will be eliminated. We have to simply learn to live with it. But many people do not want to hear that. So they attack the messenger.

Oh well, it would be a nicer place to chat here if some people were most respectful of others. A different view does not always mean a view from across the political aisle. There is room for more than two views, and often sharing opinions is the best way to learn.

And now for the kinder, gentler response.

You have to take Elvis with a grain of salt. For him everything has to be expressed along political lines. Unless you agree 100% with his current position, you're a liberal and the cause of all the world's problems. This might make sense if his position on the pandemic didn't change drastically from day to day.

For months he claimed it wasn't worse than the flu. Although there were several numbers he claimed the US death toll would never reach, the most renowned was 80,000. Along the way he's claimed masks were ineffective and effective, social distancing was effective and ineffective, travel restrictions were ineffective and effective, the list goes on and on.

My position on the pandemic has nothing to do with any political position. It has to do with 1 thing: deaths. Unnecessary deaths bother me. I don't care about your politics, or anyone else's politics. When it comes to the pandemic I have one question. Is what you're doing likely to increase or reduce the number of unnecessary deaths?

At the individual level, I don't care who gets vaccinated. However, if someone is attempting to promote the idea that getting vaccinated is more dangerous than not getting vaccinated, I'm going to oppose them. See my prior post for an easy to understand explanation.

You want me to be more respectful? Respect is a two way street. If you want it, you need to be willing to give it.

Twice I responded to your post giving specific examples to counter your claims. Did you address any of the points I made? Not one. All you did was complain I was mean to you.

I readily admit my tone was rude. I have a very low tolerance for insupportable statements and you made a few. Let's revisit them.

I'm going to paraphrase. Some people won't get vaccinated because the long term effectiveness is unknown.

There's only one thing where the long term effectiveness is certain, death. I think you mentioned eating healthy and keeping in shape in one post. The cemeteries are full of people who ate healthy and kept fit. Those types of risk management behaviors improve the life expectancy of the group, but there will always be individuals who fall outside the curve.

Getting vaccinated may only protect you for 6 months, or you might get hit by a bus 2 weeks later. What percentage of people in ICU on ventilators wish they had gotten vaccinated? What percentage are glad they didn't get vaccinated?

I think that's enough. If you want to have a respectful, friendly discussion, then address the points I've made. Show how they are invalid.

[JjBee62]

I also find it highly arrogant that people resort to insults so easily, just bcos someone else has a different view. They don't even take the time to understand what the other person writes. As you say, politics has taken a strong grip in the USA (and I suspect most here are USAns), which means that there is only room for 2 views in most people's minds. Yet covid has made a mockery of nearly all political positions. I certainly don't think either party in the USA has a commendable position on COVID and my own is different to both.

It is true that cases are rising again in some unexpected places. UK for example (one of the countries with the highest vax rates) is experiencing very high cases again. It seems the vaxes have lowered death rates but have not prevented spread. And in that environment there is no way that the virus will be eliminated. We have to simply learn to live with it. But many people do not want to hear that. So they attack the messenger.

Oh well, it would be a nicer place to chat here if some people were most respectful of others. A different view does not always mean a view from across the political aisle. There is room for more than two views, and often sharing opinions is the best way to learn.

It's not arrogance. If someone is saying or doing something stupid, they need to be informed they are being stupid. If they continue, then they require constant reminders.

However, let me put it in terms that you and El "it's no worse than the flu" Virus can understand. Oops. I just gave both of you much more credit than you deserve. The chance of either of you understanding it is about 1. 5 of 42,000.

Let's start with your claim that the vaccine has killed thousands and ElVirus' claim it has hospitalized thousands. Let's exaggerate just a bit and make the number: 9,999.

That's the highest it can be before it becomes tens of thousands. And to exaggerate further let's say that's 9,999 confirmed deaths definitely caused by a vaccine.

Now let's look at another number: 4,000,000.

That's the current number of confirmed deaths from COVID-19. Let's put them together so there's a chance you can understand which is the bigger number:

9,999 - assumed, exaggerated, unconfirmed vaccine deaths.

4,000000 - actual, confirmed COVID-19 deaths.

Are you still confused? Let's add 2 more numbers.

First, the number of people who have received at least 1 vaccine dose: 1,900,000,000.

Second, the number of confirmed COVID-19 infections: 188,000,000.

Now let's bring that together for you. After that, feel free to go to my first paragraph and read it with a new level of comprehension.

9,999 ÷ 1,900,000,000 = 0. 000000525.

That's the grossly exaggerated, unconfirmed probability that getting vaccinated will kill you.

4,000,000 ÷ 188,000,000 = 0. 021.

That's the confirmed probability that getting Covid will kill you if you're unvaccinated.

Now let's make that per 100,000 people, to make it easier to illustrate to the stupid people.

For every 100,000 unvaccinated people who get Covid, 2,100 will die.

For every 100,000 people who get vaccinated, 0. 0525 will die.

I guess it's better to raise that to 2,000,000.

For every 2,000,000 vaccines given, 1.5 person might die.

For every 2,000,000 unvaccinated people who are infected with Covid, 42,000 will die.

So you believe it's much better to kill 42,000 people than to take a chance that 1. 5 persons might die?

Still think it's arrogance? Feel free to illustrate to us all how it's more important to let 84,000 people die so you can keep 3 alive.

[JustTK]

Wow! This was an epic comeback. The problem with JJBee and the other impassioned Democrats whom I call Democratic douches is their arrogance. ...

And the resurgence of Covid in America is now not a statistical fluke but one I am seeing myself. Hospitals are full again, and they are full of Covid patients and all but one at one hospital had been vaccinated. Sadly, this is hitting younger ages now and those are the folks less likely to get the vaccine, 30 to 60 year old mostly.

So what is needed now more then ever is an end to the partisan bickering. Yes, Republicans Covid is real. No, Democrats the vaccine has way more side effects than you are being told. Vertigo is more than 1%, women with excessive bleeding after the vaccine is real, pericarditis in young men is real too. 750 people have died after getting the vaccine and 4000+ more have been hospitalized.

The virus has shown the worse of the partisan bickering, and I hope it comes to an end.

I also find it highly arrogant that people resort to insults so easily, just bcos someone else has a different view. They don't even take the time to understand what the other person writes. As you say, politics has taken a strong grip in the USA (and I suspect most here are USAns), which means that there is only room for 2 views in most people's minds. Yet covid has made a mockery of nearly all political positions. I certainly don't think either party in the USA has a commendable position on COVID and my own is different to both.

It is true that cases are rising again in some unexpected places. UK for example (one of the countries with the highest vax rates) is experiencing very high cases again. It seems the vaxes have lowered death rates but have not prevented spread. And in that environment there is no way that the virus will be eliminated. We have to simply learn to live with it. But many people do not want to hear that. So they attack the messenger.

Oh well, it would be a nicer place to chat here if some people were most respectful of others. A different view does not always mean a view from across the political aisle. There is room for more than two views, and often sharing opinions is the best way to learn.

[Elvis 2008]

So well, done. You not only failed to destroy anything of what I wrote, you manage to totally misunderstand every part of what I wrote. Is English YOUR first language?

Wow! This was an epic comeback. The problem with JJBee and the other impassioned Democrats whom I call Democratic douches is their arrogance. They have blamed Trump for all the deaths in America, rode it to a victory, proclaimed their allies didn't steal the election (when it could have easily been stolen), and are now turning that same partisan tactics on with the vaccines. Blue states are vaccinating more than red which mean Democrats are smarter than Republicans.

Of course, the Republican partisan folks do not trust the media and medical guard like Fauci who ousted their beloved leader. They think and are right to mistrust the medical establishment, but the vaccine really was not from the medical establishment but the private sector. However, the pharmacy leaders getting a lawsuit exemption is a tough pill to swallow, and I think they should have had a modification such that people could sue but with a limit on damages. Nonetheless, the benefits of getting the vaccine outweigh the risks for most people.

And the resurgence of Covid in America is now not a statistical fluke but one I am seeing myself. Hospitals are full again, and they are full of Covid patients and all but one at one hospital had been vaccinated. Sadly, this is hitting younger ages now and those are the folks less likely to get the vaccine, 30 to 60 year old mostly.

So what is needed now more then ever is an end to the partisan bickering. Yes, Republicans Covid is real. No, Democrats the vaccine has way more side effects than you are being told. Vertigo is more than 1%, women with excessive bleeding after the vaccine is real, pericarditis in young men is real too. 750 people have died after getting the vaccine and 4000+ more have been hospitalized.

The virus has shown the worse of the partisan bickering, and I hope it comes to an end. To the people who have not gotten vaccinated, talk to those who have. There is little I or anyone else to say that will make you change your mind.

[JjBee62]

A USAn trying to teach English. How sweet! Haha.

Seems that you are stumbling over the double negative that I used, plus not grasping that I spoke of other people, not myself. SO before you attempt to ridicule someone for not understanding English, best if you dble chk your own understanding first. Haha.

"Its good evidence against people that do not want to take the vaccine bcos they think it is ineffective. " - simply means "This is good evidence against vaccine-efficacy deniers. ".

So clearly your are not off to a good start here.

Again, a quite astonishing misunderstanding of what I wrote: "people might question the long term effectiveness of the vaccine. That has not been proven. ".

Nowhere did I state that was my own position. I am writing about the position that others hold. Neither did I ever state the best course of action is to do nothing.

Again, a complete strawman. Well done!.

Thanks for clearing that up. At first I thought you were just confused and unable to express yourself coherently. Now you've clearly stated you have no idea what you are talking about and are simply another idiot without anything useful to provide.

You could have saved about 20 posts by just saying so from the beginning.

[JustTK]

Is English not your first language? If that's the case, I will give you a pass on not understanding what you wrote. Let's take an in depth look, shall we?

A USAn trying to teach English. How sweet! Haha.

You are entitled to believe whatever you want. If you want to believe the Covid vaccines are ineffective, go for it. But stop babbling incoherently about evidence when you obviously are either unwilling or unable to examine the evidence.

Seems that you are stumbling over the double negative that I used, plus not grasping that I spoke of other people, not myself. SO before you attempt to ridicule someone for not understanding English, best if you dble chk your own understanding first. Haha.

"Its good evidence against people that do not want to take the vaccine bcos they think it is ineffective. " - simply means "This is good evidence against vaccine-efficacy deniers. ".

So clearly your are not off to a good start here.

Using your insane reasoning, since the long term effectiveness of the treatment was unknown, she would have been better off dying in 6-9 months after only a few months of being able to live her life. Since neither of us were insane, we went with the course which provided the best hope for a future..

Again, a quite astonishing misunderstanding of what I wrote: "people might question the long term effectiveness of the vaccine. That has not been proven. ".

Nowhere did I state that was my own position. I am writing about the position that others hold. Neither did I ever state the best course of action is to do nothing.

Again, a complete strawman. Well done!

Nobody is forcing you to inject an unknown substance into your wife, child or mother.

Now on to your final total failure to understand what was written. You misundesrtand my analogy.

I posit a Q. Would it be moral for me to take you or a loved one from you without your or their permission so that I could run medial experiments on you / them? Chances are good that it will prevent deaths in creating a vaccine but chances are certain that you will die in the experiment Is that moral?

That is my dilemma. Do you understand the dilemma now?

No one has forced me or my wife or children or loved ones to take part in these experiments. Thats bcos I am lucky. But there are thousands of innocent sentient beings that have been forced in to these experiments. And been murdered. And that is what I do not accept.

So well, done. You not only failed to destroy anything of what I wrote, you manage to totally misunderstand every part of what I wrote. Is English YOUR first language?

[MarquisdeSade1]

https://amgreatness.com/2021/07/08/t...ctual-cholera/

[AmoMedellin]

Vaccine have same side-effects that the original flu, corona has, but only of 1/1. 000 or 1/10.000 or even 1/100.000.

Blod coagulation is a major side-effect of corona infection, responsible for million of deaths, that is in combination with other damages on lunges etc.

Astra-Zenecas caused blood coagulation in 4 of 400.000 people in Norway. One on 100.000, and treatable!

So we are all safe in the 1st world very soon and can sell / give the vaccine to 2nd /3rd world counties in a couple of months and then the battle begins in Africa, Latin-American and Asia. It should eliminated in 6 months in the major population areas and in 12 months globally.

The price for sex services is 16% of that in Copenhagen. It has been around 15% since 2006 when I made my first trip.

Prices was souring when young venezolanas invaded and brought down prices to it's normal 150 k / hour for beautiful girls, which is a weeks salary for unskilled unregistred workers.

I look for my super vopuptuosa prepago-friend-provider Monica, she used the name Zara on Paisadivinas, we had an argument and I can't stand life itself with her, she is the perfect mistress! Big round ass, long legs, big tits, big lips, like a doll but affordable, I always. Hey, why only 150 k including BBBJ.

Anyone know her or anther super-voupuos beauty with great personality, around 30 yo, since they are not trying to rob me / us do all the time, I can't bring them to my apartment anymore, they are hopeless and might cause a scene and make things hell for me.

[JjBee62]

Well I guess if what you wrote is your understanding of what I wrote, then that makes you the idiot, not me. I didn't write any of those positions that you described. But go ahead and criticise those vews if you like. But they ain't mine..

Is English not your first language? If that's the case, I will give you a pass on not understanding what you wrote. Let's take an in depth look, shall we?

Its good evidence against people that do not want to take the vaccine bcos they think it is ineffective.

There are people who think that pulling out is an effective method of birth control. There is no good evidence to support that belief, but those people are either unwilling to examine the evidence, or are unable to understand it. There is no evidence that the vaccines are ineffective, quite the opposite. For some individuals they may provide less protection, for some individuals they may provide no protection. However, for the vast majority they provide significant protection.

And that's how vaccines work, by preventing most recipients from contracting whichever disease the vaccination is for. Poliomyelitis would not have been almost entirely eradicated worldwide, without such widespread distribution of the vaccine. If you want a visual to help grasp that concept, go to Medellin. Walk around some of the poor neighborhoods. Look for the people with twisted and shriveled limbs. They're not difficult to spot. Often they are begging for change. Notice anything about them? None of them are children or young adults. The reason is, the disease was eradicated from Colombia by 1991.

You are entitled to believe whatever you want. If you want to believe the Covid vaccines are ineffective, go for it. But stop babbling incoherently about evidence when you obviously are either unwilling or unable to examine the evidence.

But there are other reasons. For example, people might question the long term effectiveness of the vaccine. That has not been proven.

I hate to keep beating this dead horse, but anyone can question anything they want. That doesn't mean their questions are valid. This is really the departure from sanity point in your post. I'll put it in terms anyone with an IQ above 85 should understand. If you get lost get an adult to explain it to you.

33 years ago, plus a few months, my fiancee was found to have 2 malignant brain tumors, 1 left temporal and 1 right frontal. This was her third about with cancer, with the second being about 4 years earlier. We consulted with Oncologists and Neurosurgeons, we researched all the available alternatives and asked all the questions. The main question was "what are the chances the cancer will come back?

In other words "what is the long term effectiveness of this surgery and treatment combination?

Without surgery, with radiation treatments and massive doses of steroids, she could have hoped to live for 6-9 months, however, she would have effectively been a vegetable after 3-4 months. With surgery, an experimental treatment and radiation treatments, she could reasonably expect to be cancer free for 3-5 years. However, the likelihood of future cancer was high.

Using your insane reasoning, since the long term effectiveness of the treatment was unknown, she would have been better off dying in 6-9 months after only a few months of being able to live her life. Since neither of us were insane, we went with the course which provided the best hope for a future.

In the end, the cancer returned (after 5 years) there was another round of surgery and treatment, which gave another 3 years before cancer ended her life. That's nearly 8 years of life that you believe she should have thrown away, because the long term effectiveness was unknown.

Are you beginning to grasp why I said you're making yourself look like an idiot?

Choosing between being protected nearly 100% against death or long term hospitalization from Covid for a year or more (at no cost to you), with the possibility of needing another dose of vaccine at some point in the future, and having up to a 20% chance of hospitalization and 1. 8% chance of death, if you become symptomatic with Covid (all while racking up huge medical bills), seems pretty fucking simple.

Myself, I would not take a vax bcos I think it is immoral. For example, would you sacrifice your own child / wife / mother so that I can research the effects of a potential vaccine? I assume you would say no. So then why would you expect someone else to sacrifice theirs or for anyone else to take yours without your permission?

Ah! The coup de grace. It's immoral to take a vaccine. I could understand your point if 60% of my cerebral cortex had been surgically removed. I could even understand your point if people were being injected with an untested vaccine against their will and without their knowledge. That would certainly be immoral.

However, the vaccine has been tested. It continues to be tested many thousands of times every day. The rate of adverse effects is extremely low. It is not a "potential vaccine." None of the currently available vaccines are "potential vaccines." Nobody is forcing you to inject an unknown substance into your wife, child or mother.

However, if wish to link voluntarily receiving a tested and safe vaccine with morality then you're on the wrong fucking forum. By being here, on ISG, in the Colombia forum, you are supporting using the poverty of young Colombian mothers as a lever to force them to have sex with you at a price much lower than you could get in other places. Check with your local community standards. I believe you'll find more people think that mongering with impoverished women 20-50 years younger than you is less acceptable than getting a vaccine.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but I'm not trying to claim my moral superiority by my decision on whether or not to get vaccinated.

I'll keep saying it:

If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated. Nobody is holding a gun to your head forcing you to get vaccinated. Not that a bullet to the head has a chance of striking anything you use. It's your personal decision, nobody else's. Just stop spewing your idiocy trying to pretend your decision has any rational basis.

[JustTK]

You travel to impoverished countries, because the high poverty rate enables you to have sex with young women, most who are trying to support a family, at 10% of what it would cost you at home and you believe voluntarily taking a vaccine that has already been received by nearly 1 billion people is immoral?

That could quite possibly be the most incredibly fucked up rationale I've ever encountered.

People might question the long term effectiveness? People might also question the long term effectiveness of having malignant tumors surgically removed, because quite often the cancer will return, further surgery and treatment will be required. However, those are incredibly stupid people.

If you don't want to get vaccinated, don't get vaccinated. Honestly, nobody here really gives a fuck, no matter what they might say. But stop making up all kinds of bullshit, because it makes you look like an idiot.

Well I guess if what you wrote is your understanding of what I wrote, then that makes you the idiot, not me. I didn't write any of those positions that you described. But go ahead and criticise those vews if you like. But they ain't mine. .

[JustTK]

So, first sentence you acknowledge that the death rate is overwhelming among those who are unvaccinated and you say that "is good evidence against people who don't take the vaccie because they think it is ineffective".
But the very next sentence you say some people think it may not have long-term effectiveness? Seriously? So what? If the vaccine is good for a year or two and then you need another. Is that so bad? Since the.
Covid strain at issue has only been around for 1 1/2 years, and the vaccine has only been out about 6 months (after preliminary trials) I guess we'll find out. But the fact that it is effective initially is ample reason to.
Be vaccinated. If it doesn't perform long-term I suspect the drug companies will have improved the vaccine so that it will, in due course.
Lastly you think the vaccine is immoral? Because why?? You understand we are not in an experimental trial right now. Right? You know that the trials don't 'force' your child / wife / grandmother to enter it right??
The last bastion of stupidity is someone saying " I'm not going to take the vaccine because it isn't proven to be 100% effective " Current statistics are running over 90% effective against the virus and the less than 10% who still get infected are surviving at a highly elevated rate vs those who are unvaccinated. Perfect? Not yet. Effective. Damn straight.

Yes, there is a difference between short term and long term. The vaccine clearly helps vulnerable people from dying in the short term. But its long term effectiveness is not proven (bcos viruses mutate). Thats great if your vulnerable or rich, or even better if your both. But billions of people will never get a vax bcos they live in a poor country. That will remain an opportunity for the virus to mutate.

My personal issue is not with the effectiveness of the vaccine. My issue is that I will not support a process that kills innocent beings in the trials. I don't accept that my life is more important than those innocent beings that are being murdered in the trials.