General Reports

[Chop]

There is not a single financial advisor that will tell you that you should put your savings into in the stock market.

Well, none of them except Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity, Mason, etc. (Honesty, I've never spoken with Schwab. Betcha they'd say the same as the others though.) I'm going to guess you've never spoken with an actual financial advisor.

[SubCmdr]

"Thailand has received almost 24.5 million international tourists in the first 11 months of the year, in line with the goal established by the government for 2023 but still well below the record of 40 million visitors in 2019.

Between Jan. 1 and Nov. 26 this year, Thailand, one of the world's tourism powers and whose industry was strongly affected by the Covid-19 pandemic, received 24.48 million international travelers, generating income of 1. 03 trillion baht (about $29.6 million) to the country.

The figure is within the goal stipulated by the Thai government, which hopes to attract between 25 and 30 million tourists this year, although it represents only two thirds of the total of 39.87 travelers who visited the country in 2019, before the pandemic.

The data, provided by the Ministry of Tourism, indicates a slower recovery of Thailand's tourism sector compared to its regional neighbors, which is why the administration of Prime Minister Srettha Thavisin has implemented various measures with the aim of stimulating the industry.

Thailand has recently extended temporary visa-free entry for citizens of China, Taiwan, India and Kazakhstan, and relaxed entry conditions for Russian travelers in an attempt to stimulate tourism.

According to ministry figures, a total of 3. 05 million Chinese tourists have entered the country so far this year, far off the government goal of 3. 5-4 million travelers from the Asian giant.

Despite the slowdown, China is still among the main tourist groups registered this year in Thailand, only behind Malaysia, whose international arrivals totaled almost 4 million people since Jan. 1.

Completing the list of countries with the most citizens traveling to Thailand so far are South Korea, with 1. 44 million, India with 1. 43 million, and Russia with 1. 2 million.

By 2024, the Ministry of Tourism hopes to reactivate the sector robustly with the arrival of some 35 million international tourists, 8. 2 million of them from China.

Likewise, it foresees that the total income generated by the industry will jump from the 2. 38 trillion baht expected for this year to 3 trillion baht in 2024, a figure similar to that from the almost 40 million tourists who visited the country in 2019.

International tourism to Thailand, which accounted for 12-20 percent of Thai gross domestic product (GDP) in 2019, fell to 6. 7 million visits in 2020 and 420,000 in 2021, sending the economy into a tailspin. ".

https://efe.com/en/latest-news/2023-...covid-figures/

My Opinion

Thailand is a big place with many tourist attractions. Pattaya is but one of them. The numbers are not broken down by the locations visited in the country. I see a lot of speculation about how High Season is unfolding in the Pattaya Reports thread.

[SubCmdr]

In my opinion your post is intellectually dishonest. Here is why:

The post you are responding to is directly rated to a strategy to use gold as a savings and store of value here in Thailand. This was in response to what your wrote:

And you'll loose your shirt trying to trade gold in Thailand. The US primarily 10 and 18 karat gold. Most gold shops in Thailand are selling 23 karat gold 1. This is equivalent to 96.5% pure gold, which is considered very high by international standards. They will fuck you coming and going with exchange rates, karat differences and grams to ounces conversions. Good luck with that plan.

You knew from the very beginning I was speaking of a specific strategy for Thailand. Why are you commenting in both of your responses about how gold is handled in (Dis) United States of America.

2. You are comparing gold a safe haven (savings) to the US Stock market. There is not a single financial advisor that will tell you that you should put your savings into in the stock market. Savings is money that needs to be there no matter what the market is doing.

You speak as if the market never goes down. Did you actually put your money (as opposed to quoting statistics) where your keyboard is and were you in the market during COVID? Tell me what happened during that time period? Let me tell you what happen to me. Straight down. Looking at 40% losses during the period. I am glad that was holding cash so that if I needed it an emergency I wouldn't have to sell any stock while my portfolio was down 40%.

Yes, gold is considered a store of value. Gold has been used as money for exchange, as a store of value, as valuable jewelry, and as other artifacts. Gold is rare and difficult to extract, which adds to the perception that gold is a valuable commodity. Gold is Only worth what the next sucker I mean investor is willing to pay you. I remember back when gold first hit $800 and ounce and silver was $50+ and ounce. Gold first hit $800 per ounce on January 14,1980 . This was after the price of gold soared when it was released from government control. The current price of gold is $1,994.71 per ounce. You do the math. In round numbers $2000 - $800 = $1200.

Gold didn't just double in 43 years it went up by 150%. That's a whopping 3. 488% per year.

If I can hold onto my gold for another 43 years I will a centenarian and then some. You see I have only begun to consider the option of physical gold. To be quite honest with you my ISG Brother if live that long I will be perfectly comfortable with a 3. 488% return on my savings. Plus rolling like PIMP the entire time with a pinky ring and gold chain. I will be just like Raj Raj says: "One of them poor people". LOL!.

Gold is no longer a safe haven. Gold isnt an effective hedge against inflation. Gold is dead.

You may have heard and read these comments, and others like it, numerous times over the course of the recent everything selloff. This is staggeringly shortsighted to me. Gold is down only around 9.5% for the year, despite surging bond yields, and despite the U.S. dollar being at its strongest level ever relative to other major currencies. Given these incredible headwinds, you would expect gold to have lost far more of its value than it has. But compared to other assets, from stocks to bonds to digital currencies, the yellow metal has been remarkably resilient. And thats gold priced in the U.S. dollar. When we price it in other world currencies, gold has done even better since many currencies have declined significantly in value relative to the greenback. This week, the British pound sterling fell to an all-time low against the dollar, as did the Chinese renminbi.
If it all comes crashing down, I would want to have some gold in my portfolio, which has historically been an attractive store of value when markets cratered.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp...h=5ed566b779ce

A conservative value oriented investor could have put his money in an index fund like the S & P 500.

The average annual return of the S&P 500 index over the past 43 years is 10%.

How long does it take for a market that goes down to recover? Does the S&P 500 represent the entire world market? Are you still going to compare investing verses storing value? How much has real estate increased in Thailand during the same 43 year period of time? Have you been invested in the various stock markets of the world for 43 years? For the last 43 years have you been invested in the S&P 500. If not, why not? I have been invested in stock markets around the world for the last 39 years. Do you still feel the need to lecture me on stock markets? I live in the present. Take a look at the stock symbol: NVDA. I own it. Bought it during COVID. How has it performed?

So let's talk troy oz and actual buying power over the last 43 years:

In 1980, the average price of gold was $614.75 per troy ounce. This is equivalent to $2,378.83 in 2023 dollars 1.

As of November 9, 2023, the current price of gold is $1,994.71 per ounce.

Therefore, the price of gold has decreased by approximately 16.2% from 1980 to 2023.

This comparison is intellectual dishonest. You know you can pick any period of time when looking at investing returns and get a different number. Look at the returns from from 1971.

Gold is not an asset that generates income, but it can function as a store of value when its price appreciates over time. The worldwide average annual return of gold between 1971 (the year the USA Stopped linking the price of gold to the dollar) and 2022 was 7. 78%, but there can be considerable fluctuations from year to year. For example, the annual return of gold in 2022 was only 0. 4%.

How you like me now?

But what about the US dollar?

What about the US Dollar? It is paper. Backed by nothing. Gold is money. USD is debt. A promise to by the USGOV to pay. They just managed to get an agreement to actually pay the debt and borrow more money. Put 100000 dollars into a bank, they can then lend out 1,000,000 dollars. You see your deposit into a bank is a liability for the bank. Assets for a bank are the loans that they make to people to pay back. Do they have 1,000,000? No they don't. They just made it up out of thin air. They created new money. That is why you cannot get ahead in the capitalist system without using debt judiciously and with strong risk management in place.

According to the USA Bureau of Labor Statistics, the inflation rate between 1980 and 2023 was 273.53% 1. This means that the purchasing power of one dollar in 1980 is equivalent to $3. 74 in 2023 1.

In other words, if you had $1 in 1980, it would have the same buying power as $3. 74 in 2023. And l ot of this just happened in the past 2 years.

More statistics eh? Only in the twilight zone does your math make any sense. But hold on tight to that USD my ISG brother. Make sure your put it into a bank. You are going to get rich just from inflation. LOL!. While here in Thailand, I am going to buy gold.

To square the circle what would $1 invested in the S&P 500 be worth? Wait for it. $54.76. Next you'll be touting Bitcoin-555.

Actually I am more interested in the percentage return you actual earned on the money you invested in the S&P 500. Easy to talk about something you have not done. You see if you did not invest in it then it actually does not matter what the returns were to you now does it. If you are just talking about it then you are speaking about history you actually did not live or experience. I spoke about what I have actually done. No one here right now can go back 43 and make and investment in the S&P 500 at this point. Can you tell me what my investment returns will be 43 years into the future?

I am not here to give you or anyone else financial advice.

Please remember that it was you and Raj Raj that challenged my plan to use gold here in Thailand as savings method. You think that I will "loose my shirt" as you put it. Raj Raj thinks it is for poor Thais and that it should not be executed because he is superior to everyone in knowledge of how to judge bar girls and provide investment advice. Did I get that right? Never mind the fact that TooDirty sees things the way I see them. To each their own. I know this will not be enough for either you nor Raj Raj as both of you need to get the last word in. I understand that about you both.

Bitcoin is the peoples money. A digital commodity. Limited quantity. Peer to peer transfer without financial intermediaries. Bitcoin is legal tinder in El Salvador. I dont own any BTC. I also dont own any gold. I just like to talk about them. LOL!

Pro Tip. You don't want to Emulate Poor Thais. No offense.

Pro Tip: Do not take financial advice from Professional Tricks.

Although I don't have any financial advice for anyone I do have some pussy advice. My suggestions: Don't buy pussy, rent it. Remember the more you pay for pussy does not make it perform any better. Keep your booty bill low and spend the rest on yourself or a girl who actually gives a fuck about you. Don't worry about fucking the wives and girlfriends of Thai men. Somebody mentioned that it was ok even if you don't know you are doing it. LOL!.

[Raj Patela]

I only wish I had put everything I could have since 1980 into gold, and I would have never worried one bit. Wouldn't have bothered me one bit that it could have been worth much more with more risk.

On the other hand my pop put $100,000 into bonds for Washington Power, and that huge loss gave him a nice write off on capital gains for many many many years. Can't really compare 1980 to now when we owe a trillion dollars every year just in interest on the federal debt our elites have saddled us with.

If I could I'd emulate those poor Thai folks you seem to think are not smart and buy a bit of land in Thailand too. Unfortunately, I can't do that.

Pro Tip. You don't want to Emulate Poor Thais. No offense.

[TooDirty]

In other words, if you had $1 in 1980, it would have the same buying power as $3. 74 in 2023. And lot of this just happened in the past 2 years.

To square the circle what would $1 invested in the S&P 500 be worth? Wait for it. $54.76. Next you'll be touting Bitcoin-555.

I only wish I had put everything I could have since 1980 into gold, and I would have never worried one bit. Wouldn't have bothered me one bit that it could have been worth much more with more risk.

On the other hand my pop put $100,000 into bonds for Washington Power, and that huge loss gave him a nice write off on capital gains for many many many years. Can't really compare 1980 to now when we owe a trillion dollars every year just in interest on the federal debt our elites have saddled us with.

If I could I'd emulate those poor Thai folks you seem to think are not smart and buy a bit of land in Thailand too. Unfortunately, I can't do that.

[Mr Enternational]

Gold first hit $800 per ounce on January 14,1980 .

So the price fell after 1980? Because I remember when gold was $400 per ounce. "In 1990, an ounce of gold was worth $400, and fell to $280 in early 2000. ".

I was listening to this rich guy yesterday and he said you would have to be a fool to buy gold as an investment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeOum4h19UI

[TConor]

Your opening statement is based on a very BIG assumption. Why would you think I want to sell my gold in the (Dis) United States of America? It is a fucked up country. But this is not the thread to discuss that. To buy gold in Thailand and sell it someplace other than Thailand would be counter productive to my gold plan in Thailand.

Thank your for you very informative post about gold in Thailand and your opinions on trading it. You and I obviously look at finances very differently or your have never actually bought or sold in gold in Thailand. That is ok. Maybe you are sharing your trading experiences and have indeed lost your shirt and don't want me to loose mine. Either way I appreciate it my intelligent and well traveled ISG Brother.

I see gold as a store of value. I take 70000 THB and buy gold with it in Thailand. If times get hard I can sell that gold and (depending upon the price of gold at the time of sale) and get more or less 70000 THB back. No exchange rate issues..

Yes, gold is considered a store of value. Gold has been used as money for exchange, as a store of value, as valuable jewelry, and as other artifacts. Gold is rare and difficult to extract, which adds to the perception that gold is a valuable commodity. Gold is Only worth what the next sucker I mean investor is willing to pay you. I remember back when gold first hit $800 and ounce and silver was $50+ and ounce. Gold first hit $800 per ounce on January 14,1980 . This was after the price of gold soared when it was released from government control. The current price of gold is $1,994.71 per ounce. You do the math. In round numbers $2000 - $800 = $1200.

Gold didn't just double in 43 years it went up by 150%. That's a whopping 3. 488% per year.

A conservative value oriented investor could have put his money in an index fund like the S & P 500.

The average annual return of the S&P 500 index over the past 43 years is 10%.

So let's talk troy oz and actual buying power over the last 43 years:

In 1980, the average price of gold was $614.75 per troy ounce. This is equivalent to $2,378.83 in 2023 dollars 1.

As of November 9, 2023, the current price of gold is $1,994.71 per ounce.

Therefore, the price of gold has decreased by approximately 16.2% from 1980 to 2023.

But what about the US dollar?

According to the USA Bureau of Labor Statistics, the inflation rate between 1980 and 2023 was 273.53% 1. This means that the purchasing power of one dollar in 1980 is equivalent to $3. 74 in 2023 1.

In other words, if you had $1 in 1980, it would have the same buying power as $3. 74 in 2023. And l ot of this just happened in the past 2 years.

To square the circle what would $1 invested in the S&P 500 be worth? Wait for it. $54.76. Next you'll be touting Bitcoin-555.

[Explorer8939]

This was my plan, might still be but just 180 days a year and then off someplace else. I've watched a few videos of people buying baht gold it seemed pretty straight forward from a shop that's been in operation for 100 years. I imagine if they were cheating everybody somebody would know by now. I don't mind paying a premium on gold as I consider the fiat currency I'm using worthless. Even more so in the last three years of build back better. If my house sells soon I might hurry to Thailand temporarily before Jan 1, 2024.

I just use a bank account. When the balance is too low, I use Wise to transfer cash from my US bank to my Thai bank account. It's all in "fiat" currency, which is what the bars and ladies accept.

Try paying your bar bill with gold.

[SubCmdr]

Poor Thais do as the Commander says.

They sure do. Thanks for the confirmation.

Ever seen a Rich Thai wearing a Baht Gold Necklace. The big one.

Unless rich Thais are walking around in Central Pattaya I cannot say I have ever seen that. But in fact I cannot say that I have seen a rich person in any country wearing a gold necklace. You know why that is? Because their gold is in vaults diversified inside and outside of the countries they live in. I am not rich, but I have seen it.

[SubCmdr]

This was my plan, might still be but just 180 days a year and then off someplace else. Ive watched a few videos of people buying baht gold it seemed pretty straight forward from a shop that's been in operation for 100 years. I imagine if they were cheating everybody somebody would know by now.

You and I are on the same page my ISG Brother. Here is how I have seen it work:

The Baht gold weight unit

The standard weight unit for measuring gold in Thailand is the traditional 'Baht' unit, with 1 Baht = 15.244 grams or 0. 4901 troy ozs. With 1 Baht = 15.244 grams and a fineness of 965, this means that there are 15.244 * 0. 965 = 14.71046 grams of pure gold in a 1 Baht weight unit.

Gold Jewelry is 96.5% Pure here (23 karats; Let's say your a straight PIMP like me (you might not be but for the sake of example go with me on it) Pinky ring is is 7. 6 grams and costs 472.26 USD.

Here is the math.

965 x 7. 6 = 7. 33 grams of pure gold; that puts the gold at 64.43 USD a gram.

64.43 x 28.3595 = 1826.51 USD / ounce.

So here is the catch: gold price needs to move up before my premium is covered here.

And the actual transaction is done in THB. I did the conversions so that everyone could understand them.

My understanding is that they give the purchaser a certificate with the date of sale, item purchased and weight and price. This information is recorded in the master book so if you need gold bullion cause your are doing some Jason Borne type shit, the Kingdom is not the place to do it.

I don't mind paying a premium on gold as I consider the fiat currency I'm using worthless. Even more so in the last three years of build back better. If my house sells soon I might hurry to Thailand temporarily before Jan 1, 2024.

My idea is to create a store of value here in Thailand. Not selling into the world gold market. So, what matters is the amount of THB going in and the amount of THB coming out.

If another global crisis comes and a warning is given: shit or get of the mother fucking pot cause we are going to lock down the borders. I do not believe in running like a * I believe in "standing to' and defending my position. The mother fucking Marines are not coming for me and even if they are I am not getting on the helicopters and leaving my love ones like a girly man! I hung tough in place during the last crisis. It is what I will do in the next one.

In my opinion, the new administrative changes to the interpretation of the tax law are looking pretty draconian. The reporting requirements are looking pretty onerous. Many ex-pats (in my circle) have put investments and major spending on hold and are looking for an alternate plan to avoid the going over the 180 day limit.

I am doing the same the same thing. Once again, I will tell everyone it might affect, not to sleep on this. Do not pay any attention to the professional tricks or part time tricks (including me) posting advice about this issue. Learn how it will affect you directly. Get professional tax advice you can trust..

[Raj Patela]

This was my plan, might still be but just 180 days a year and then off someplace else. I've watched a few videos of people buying baht gold it seemed pretty straight forward from a shop that's been in operation for 100 years. I imagine if they were cheating everybody somebody would know by now. I don't mind paying a premium on gold as I consider the fiat currency I'm using worthless. Even more so in the last three years of build back better. If my house sells soon I might hurry to Thailand temporarily before Jan 1, 2024.

Poor Thais do as the Commander says.

Ever seen a Rich Thai wearing a Baht Gold Necklace. The big one.

[TooDirty]

Thai people use gold as a savings account. Gold shops are plentiful and allow you to buy and sell gold for fiat currency (THB) very easily. When in Thailand it often makes sense to do as the Thai people do.

This was my plan, might still be but just 180 days a year and then off someplace else. I've watched a few videos of people buying baht gold it seemed pretty straight forward from a shop that's been in operation for 100 years. I imagine if they were cheating everybody somebody would know by now. I don't mind paying a premium on gold as I consider the fiat currency I'm using worthless. Even more so in the last three years of build back better. If my house sells soon I might hurry to Thailand temporarily before Jan 1, 2024.

[SubCmdr]

And you'll loose your shirt trying to trade gold in Thailand.

Your opening statement is based on a very BIG assumption. Why would you think I want to sell my gold in the (Dis) United States of America? It is a fucked up country. But this is not the thread to discuss that. To buy gold in Thailand and sell it someplace other than Thailand would be counter productive to my gold plan in Thailand.

The US primarily 10 and 18 karat gold. Most gold shops in Thailand are selling 23 karat gold 1. This is equivalent to 96.5% pure gold, which is considered very high by international standards. They will fuck you coming and going with exchange rates, karat differences and grams to ounces conversions.

Thank your for you very informative post about gold in Thailand and your opinions on trading it. You and I obviously look at finances very differently or your have never actually bought or sold in gold in Thailand. That is ok. Maybe you are sharing your trading experiences and have indeed lost your shirt and don't want me to loose mine. Either way I appreciate it my intelligent and well traveled ISG Brother.

I see gold as a store of value. I take 70000 THB and buy gold with it in Thailand. If times get hard I can sell that gold and (depending upon the price of gold at the time of sale) and get more or less 70000 THB back. No exchange rate issues.

I was on the street today and saw: Sell 32700 Buy 32600 a Bhat. That is a 100 THB spread between buying and selling. That is an immediate loss. But I cannot buy a shirt for 100 THB. Well that is a lie, I actually I could, just not one I would want to wear.

Good luck with that plan.

I don't need luck. Like you said, I am smart. That means I am smart enough to understand how the gold system in Thailand works. Then use it for my purposes and goals. They may not be your purposes and goals. But that is ok.

Somebody jumped on me about sharing of information. I am sharing my gold plan in Thailand. In fact, I have spoke with several Thai people who told me that is how they survived in Thailand during the down turn of tourism in Pattaya. They sold their accumulated gold they had purchased when times were good in order to get them through the lean times.

I look forward to your next post in the General Information section if you disagree with my gold buying plans in Thailand. If not, we can put this issue to rest. Bring pristine currency to Thailand if you don't want problems the the money changing booths or the banks.

[TConor]

I disagree. You are only in that position if you have failed to plan. Who travels overseas without a back up plan? I know I don't. I have very little travel experience compared to yours, but I have never been in that position. First of all I have more physical currency that I need. I have never been an a position where ALL my currency has been rejected. Have you?

My point is that particular post was when you return to exchange said money (in the DisUnited States of America) it will not be a problem if you were not the person that created the conditions that caused the Federal reserve note to not meet the standards of the bank or money exchange location where you tried to exchange it. I do my best to ask for the newest most pristine notes directly from a bank before I leave on a trip. That is not always possible if I am in a hurry. But that is the ideal situation.

Intelligent people have back ups to to money exchange. I actually use cash as a back up and rely on ATMs to give me THB for small purchases. ATMs are plentiful and readily and will give you (at least my bank does) superior exchange rates (if you handle the ATM correctly). I use my credit card for larger purchases. It has no foreign transaction fees and also gives me a good rate.

Thai people use gold as a savings account. Gold shops are plentiful and allow you to buy and sell gold for fiat currency (THB) very easily. When in Thailand it often makes sense to do as the Thai people do.

But were you locked out of Thailand when covid hit? I was and couldn't return for 9 months. The best plans can sometimes not work. Luckily for me I have actually never had all my currency rejected. But I know guys not as smart as you, who have. But anyway it just so happens in March of 2020 I was carrying 3 k worth of currency that had great potential for rejection in SEA as I was in eastern Europe for what was supposed to be a couple weeks and then on the States to get clean 100's. I had another 2 k in clean new bills and 3 credit cards and 2 ATMs. Just trying to get back to the States was VERY difficult because the airline were shut down and only repatriation flights for cash were all that was available. I am just trying to let those who may not have your insight and experience know the score. And you'll loose your shirt trying to trade gold in Thailand. The US primarily 10 and 18 karat gold. Most gold shops in Thailand are selling 23 karat gold 1. This is equivalent to 96.5% pure gold, which is considered very high by international standards. They will fuck you coming and going with exchange rates, karat differences and grams to ounces conversions. Good luck with that plan.

I whole heartedly agree with the ATM and CC strategy. It is exactly what I do.

[Nyezhov]

I disagree. You are only in that position if you have failed to plan. Who travels overseas without a back up plan? I know I don't. I have very little travel experience compared to yours, but I have never been in that position. First of all I have more physical currency that I need. I have never been an a position where ALL my currency has been rejected. Have you?

My point is that particular post was when you return to exchange said money (in the DisUnited States of America) it will not be a problem if you were not the person that created the conditions that caused the Federal reserve note to not meet the standards of the bank or money exchange location where you tried to exchange it. I do my best to ask for the newest most pristine notes directly from a bank before I leave on a trip. That is not always possible if I am in a hurry. But that is the ideal situation.

Intelligent people have back ups to to money exchange. I actually use cash as a back up and rely on ATMs to give me THB for small purchases. ATMs are plentiful and readily and will give you (at least my bank does) superior exchange rates (if you handle the ATM correctly). I use my credit card for larger purchases. It has no foreign transaction fees and also gives me a good rate.

Thai people use gold as a savings account. Gold shops are plentiful and allow you to buy and sell gold for fiat currency (THB) very easily. When in Thailand it often makes sense to do as the Thai people do.

Dude this is Asia. Shit happens. Why are you arguing so much. ? Are you the new self appointed expert on everything then. ?