Pattaya Reports

[Expat American]

Y
You are wrong. Prostitution is clearly illegal as well as profiting from it. My colleagues at Siam legal summarize it very nicely here. If you don't know, don't say. The reason you think it's legal is because it is not enforced in many situations, but the laws are clear. Prostitution is illegal in Pattaya and everywhere in Thailand.

Please read.

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand but obviously a big driver of tourism. I don't see what the average punter does as risky from that perspective. However Farang bar owners and managers are probably putting themselves in significant legal risk or at the very least subject themselves to major shakedowns. Why any farang would do that and risk being put in a Thai jail is beyond me. On top of that some of them even have You Tube channels promoting their illegal businesses which seems to be the height of recklessness. It all works until one day the government changes, the US puts some pressure or other reason and it all crumbles.

[EihTooms]

One would think a summary would quote relevant sections, except if there are no relevant sections to quote. Then, in order to hide the fact that there are none, include as much irrelevant information as possible. Minors, third parties, public places??

And you're doing it again. I can read well, so I'm not overwhelmed by the number of words you included, irrelevant though they are. The only thing you've included that comes close is Section 5. And that has a purposeful out. If those things are done- "in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public. " Sorry, your dramatic "nail in the coffin" flopped.

You work in the legal profession. (I have no idea why that is relevant.) Why are there qualifiers in that section?

Why include Section 6? Who's asking about about establishments?

Why include Section 7? Advertisements?

Why section 9? Pimping?

It's simple. The question is- Is it illegal in Thailand for me to ask a woman in my condo if she will have sex with me in exchange for money, and consummate the act? I. e. , prostitution. In my state, it is clearly against the law. No ambiguity, no irrelevancy.

Either show me where in Thai law is says that it is, or stop.

Ok, the translation is bad. Please show the Thai version and I will get it translated. Because nothing here comes close to making your point.

I just wanted to mention here that I have also been making these same points and raising the same questions but since my post submissions are held for quite some time for moderation they have not been posted yet even though I submitted them before yours and others' showed up here.

Just my apology in advance for what might seem like an annoying repetition of what you and perhaps others are submitting and getting posted way sooner than my submissions are getting posted. If they get posted at all, that is.

And I suspect now that these holes in the argument are being laid bare by so many and so effectively, "somebody" will request all of it be moved to another forum, where very few here will ever see them. As happened before.

[Mr Enternational]

I didn't say anything about enforcement. The question is- Is prostitution illegal in Thailand? Whether a law is enforced or not doesn't change its legality.

Well we know it is not legal to offer it online.

https://aseannow.us12.list-manage.co...9&e=56b8e2c51e

[Philip Marlow]

Take for example Dubai and Bahrein, two well known "mongering destinations " in the Gulf. Are you telling us that prostitution is not illegal there because there's no enforcement to stop all what is well known? Countries where, in principle, it is not accepted to show "love and affection in public'?

I didn't say anything about enforcement. The question is- Is prostitution illegal in Thailand? Whether a law is enforced or not doesn't change its legality.

[Philip Marlow]

The summary does not show every law. I posted the link to the law for a reason. I guess you were too lazy to look. I work in the legal profession in Thailand so I know and you don't know.

Here are all the laws form the act related to this. Further, this a bad translation. The Thai version is much clearer and leaves no room for doubt that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Section 5. Any person who, for the purpose of prostitution, solicits, induces, Introduces herself or himself to, follows or implores a person in a street or a public place, or commits such acts in any other place, in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public, shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.

You don't know so don't say. Read

This should close the topic now. Prostitution, while illegal in Thailand is tolerated until there is a reason to enforce the laws. End of story.

One would think a summary would quote relevant sections, except if there are no relevant sections to quote. Then, in order to hide the fact that there are none, include as much irrelevant information as possible. Minors, third parties, public places??

And you're doing it again. I can read well, so I'm not overwhelmed by the number of words you included, irrelevant though they are. The only thing you've included that comes close is Section 5. And that has a purposeful out. If those things are done- "in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public. " Sorry, your dramatic "nail in the coffin" flopped.

You work in the legal profession. (I have no idea why that is relevant.) Why are there qualifiers in that section?

Why include Section 6? Who's asking about about establishments?

Why include Section 7? Advertisements?

Why section 9? Pimping?

It's simple. The question is- Is it illegal in Thailand for me to ask a woman in my condo if she will have sex with me in exchange for money, and consummate the act? I. e. , prostitution. In my state, it is clearly against the law. No ambiguity, no irrelevancy.

Either show me where in Thai law is says that it is, or stop.

Ok, the translation is bad. Please show the Thai version and I will get it translated. Because nothing here comes close to making your point.

[EihTooms]

The summary does not show every law. I posted the link to the law for a reason. I guess you were too lazy to look. I work in the legal profession in Thailand so I know and you don't know.

Here are all the laws form the act related to this. Further, this a bad translation. The Thai version is much clearer and leaves no room for doubt that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Section 5. Any person who, for the purpose of prostitution, solicits, induces, Introduces herself or himself to, follows or implores a person in a street or a public place, or commits such acts in any other place, in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public, shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.

Section 6. Any person who assembles in a prostitution establishment for the benefit of prostituting himself or herself or another person shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding one thousand baht or both. If the offense under paragraph one is committed while being forced or being under such power which cannot be avoided or resisted, the offender is not guilty.

Section 7. Any person who advertises or agrees to advertise, induces or introduces by means of documents, printed materials, or distribute by any means to the public in a manner indicative of importunity or solicitation for the prostitution of himself, herself or another person shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of six months to two years or to a fine of ten thousand baht to forty thousand baht or to both.

Section 9. Any person who PROCURES, seduces or takes any person to commit prostitution, even with his or her consent and irrespective of whether the various acts which constitute such an offense are committed within or outside the Kingdom, shall be liable to Imprisonment for a term of one to ten years and to a fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht. If the offense under paragraph one is committed against a person over fifteen, but not over eighteen years of age, the offender shall be liable to imprisonment of five to fifteen years and to a fine of one hundred thousand to three hundred thousand baht.

This covers public places, private places and bars and massage shops and so on. Section 7 would apply to Thai friendly as well, such as when the ladies write ST 1500 for example. Section 5 mentions or any other place so that would even include your home or condo. Section 9 is the blanket clause that puts the nail in there coffin for you. Procure means "buy".



You don't know so don't say. Read

This should close the topic now. Prostitution, while illegal in Thailand is tolerated until there is a reason to enforce the laws. End of story.

Here are all the laws form the act related to this. Further, this a bad translation. The Thai version is much clearer and leaves no room for doubt that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Section 5. Any person who, for the purpose of prostitution, solicits, induces, Introduces herself or himself to, follows or implores a person in a street or a public place, or commits such acts in any other place, in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public, shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.

The qualifier I highlighted has been on the books, well-inderstood and occasionally enforced for years. But it still doesn't say the act of exchanging sex for money between consenting adults is illegal.

Section 9. Any person who PROCURES, seduces or takes any person to commit prostitution, even with his or her consent and irrespective of whether the various acts which constitute such an offense are committed within or outside the Kingdom, shall be liable to Imprisonment for a term of one to ten years and to a fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht. If the offense under paragraph one is committed against a person over fifteen, but not over eighteen years of age, the offender shall be liable to imprisonment of five to fifteen years and to a fine of one hundred thousand to three hundred thousand baht.

"PROCURES, seduces or takes", "within or outside the Kingdom" indicates that Section is clearly talking about pimps or mamasans recruiting girls to work as prostitutes somewhere, anywhere, in or outside of Thailand.

You can't really be saying that Section is referring to a customer and a working girl or boy agreeing lo have sex in a hotel room or condo. If so, then why did they mysteriously drop the word "solicits" in that Section, which would have eliminated the need to say anything about procuring, seducing or taking? I submit because they are talking about Recruiters, not customers. The words they use are speficially what Recruiters do when they have no intention of engaging in the exchange of sex for money with anyone, just intending to Recruit new girls.

In all your years purportedly involved in the legal profession in Thailand have you ever met someone who was busted for doing what I described between an ordinary customer and a prostitute and spent so much as a day in prison for it, much less a year? Have you even met someone who met someone who did such a thing?

[Gaijin Gigolo]

No, it isn't. Actively profiting from someone else's prostitution is illegal, that's why there's so many loopholes. But the act of buying / selling sex itself is totally legal.

Because they fit the beauty standard far better, because they are culturally way more popular at the moment and because they are far less demanding and aggressive in the bedroom. They're fine with a few minutes of sex a lot of the time and don't watch the clock. Most westerners want to get every last bit of value out of the experience and make the women suck their dick or bend over for lengthy periods of time. Westerners being penny pinchers plays somewhat of a part, but it's a bit of an exaggeration to attribute all of that to someone buying a drink more at the bar.

Finally someone else with a brain on here. Thanks for the input.

[EihTooms]

I frequently am, but not here. If you can cite something that states that it is illegal in the Kingdom for me to approach a woman and offer money for sex, and / or to consummate the act for pay, I would appreciate it. Because nothing you wrote comes close to stating that.

Even this summary doesn't say it.

Nothing about prostitution in my condo, for example. Or the lady's apartment. Why does the law (purportedly, it's been years since I read it) mention specific places? If the law doesn't specifically say something is illegal then it isn't.

This is from the revised statutes from my state in the US- "A person commits the offense of prostitution if the person engages in, or agrees or offers to engage in, sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee or anything of value. ".

Nothing you've cited even approaches such language. Because it doesn't exist.

All that stuff about "procuring / pursuading, taking, etc", "in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public", "in a place of prostitution" and "associates with" doesn't cut it and can not even be proven.

Ok, if I walk up to any woman on the street, in a mall or in the cinema and ask her to come to my room to fuck for 1,000 baht or 10,000 baht, I could see that a nurse, school teacher, secretary, a judge or off-duty policeman or their girlfriend or wife who had no intention of ever engaging in prostitution and felt quite insulted by the question would, could and probably should lodge a complaint. So be careful about that. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong person.

Now, what if I ask her to come to my room to fuck with no mention of money at all? And if she says yes, after we fuck in my room I say, "Here's 2,000 baht to buy that purse I saw you checking out at the mall"? Or if that 2,000 baht topic came up as we entered my condo lobby before we fucked? Did anybody break the law here? Me, for making the offer, her, for saying "ok, thanks" or both if us? Imo, that is the round-about Thai way of saying just don't make it obvious to any bystanders, we are a holy kingdom.

They know such a legal concept can not be proven or enforced. There has never even been in the history of Thailand a "sting" operation complete with audio or video recording devices set up in order to bust someone for engaging in such a conversation and exchange. Nor has there been an idictment, trial and conviction for it for any political rival or national security threat personage for which the Kingdom would be motivated to bust and imprison for something, anything.

Are those Soi 6 bars now "places of prostitution and brothels"? I thought they were bars in the business of selling drinks, to party and meet new friends. Same with massage shops, gentleman's clubs and my hotel room. If the law defines and identifies those as "places of prostitution", they are going to have to explain why they were even open for business in order for people to "associate" with each other in them, whatever that means.

If there is a place of business that provides a line up of girls or boys, presents a menu of specific sex acts with a price next to each item and provides no other service such as massage, resting and relaxing, having a drink, karaoke singing or partying, then the cops might have a shot at rounding up everyone "associating" with people there and I might avoid entering it myself I suppose.

My hotel room or condo? She didn't "procure / pursuade or take" me anywhere to have sex for money nor vice versa. I wanted to show her the lovely etching in my room. Again, anything more than that is unprovable and unenforceable.

These Codes and Addendums are written in the typically Thai fashion where they hope it "looks" to someone not particularly detail-oriented that they are saying "Prostitution, the exchange of sex for money, between or among consenting adults, is illegal" when it really doesn't say any such thing and would take less than 10 clear and unambiguous words to say so.

[BionicMan]

I frequently am, but not here. If you can cite something that states that it is illegal in the Kingdom for me to approach a woman and offer money for sex, and / or to consummate the act for pay, I would appreciate it. Because nothing you wrote comes close to stating that.

Even this summary doesn't say it.

Nothing about prostitution in my condo, for example. Or the lady's apartment. Why does the law (purportedly, it's been years since I read it) mention specific places? If the law doesn't specifically say something is illegal then it isn't.

This is from the revised statutes from my state in the US- "A person commits the offense of prostitution if the person engages in, or agrees or offers to engage in, sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee or anything of value. ".

Nothing you've cited even approaches such language. Because it doesn't exist.

Take for example Dubai and Bahrein, two well known "mongering destinations " in the Gulf. Are you telling us that prostitution is not illegal there because there's no enforcement to stop all what is well known? Countries where, in principle, it is not accepted to show "love and affection in public'?

[EverythingThai]

I frequently am, but not here. If you can cite something that states that it is illegal in the Kingdom for me to approach a woman and offer money for sex, and / or to consummate the act for pay, I would appreciate it. Because nothing you wrote comes close to stating that.

Even this summary doesn't say it.

Nothing about prostitution in my condo, for example. Or the lady's apartment. Why does the law (purportedly, it's been years since I read it) mention specific places? If the law doesn't specifically say something is illegal then it isn't.

This is from the revised statutes from my state in the US- "A person commits the offense of prostitution if the person engages in, or agrees or offers to engage in, sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee or anything of value. ".

Nothing you've cited even approaches such language. Because it doesn't exist.

The summary does not show every law. I posted the link to the law for a reason. I guess you were too lazy to look. I work in the legal profession in Thailand so I know and you don't know.

Here are all the laws form the act related to this. Further, this a bad translation. The Thai version is much clearer and leaves no room for doubt that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

Section 5. Any person who, for the purpose of prostitution, solicits, induces, Introduces herself or himself to, follows or implores a person in a street or a public place, or commits such acts in any other place, in an open and shameful manner or causes nuisance to the public, shall be liable to a fine not exceeding one thousand baht.

Section 6. Any person who assembles in a prostitution establishment for the benefit of prostituting himself or herself or another person shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding one thousand baht or both. If the offense under paragraph one is committed while being forced or being under such power which cannot be avoided or resisted, the offender is not guilty.

Section 7. Any person who advertises or agrees to advertise, induces or introduces by means of documents, printed materials, or distribute by any means to the public in a manner indicative of importunity or solicitation for the prostitution of himself, herself or another person shall be liable to imprisonment for a term of six months to two years or to a fine of ten thousand baht to forty thousand baht or to both.

Section 9. Any person who PROCURES, seduces or takes any person to commit prostitution, even with his or her consent and irrespective of whether the various acts which constitute such an offense are committed within or outside the Kingdom, shall be liable to Imprisonment for a term of one to ten years and to a fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht. If the offense under paragraph one is committed against a person over fifteen, but not over eighteen years of age, the offender shall be liable to imprisonment of five to fifteen years and to a fine of one hundred thousand to three hundred thousand baht.

This covers public places, private places and bars and massage shops and so on. Section 7 would apply to Thai friendly as well, such as when the ladies write ST 1500 for example. Section 5 mentions or any other place so that would even include your home or condo. Section 9 is the blanket clause that puts the nail in there coffin for you. Procure means "buy".



You don't know so don't say. Read

This should close the topic now. Prostitution, while illegal in Thailand is tolerated until there is a reason to enforce the laws. End of story.

[LittleBigMan]

Bottom line: Chinese New Year has no impact on mongering.

I do not disagree with this point but reading his remark that isn't how I perceive his comment!

" Basically no one celebrate CYN except Chinese ".

Taking that comment I responded with my experience and that experience found it to be totally untrue! If I said or implied it affects Mongering I would gladly apologies but until I have evidence I did I hold form to my view.

[Turgid]

I look at the lady drink as an interview for the job of boom boom. I don't particularly enjoy chatting with her, but it often helps in selecting the right lady. Sometimes I buy zero drinks (the Mr. E approach). Typically I buy 1 drink before I either accept or reject her. Rarely I buy 2 drinks for a single lady. Perhaps I bought 3 drinks in 2017. I've never bought 4 or more drinks for a lady. Reports of 10+ drinks seem crazy to me.

It all boils down to the fact that gents are different. I could never sit with a girl for a few seconds and make the determination that she would provide good service. I could sit with her for a few seconds and decide right away that I am not interested in which case I would not buy a drink. However, if I have not so decided I would need a little more time and would not be comfortable sitting and chatting with the prospect in the proprietor's establishment without buying a drink. One drink is usually my maximum, rarely do I buy more.

[Explorer8939]

$300. A night?

I'm staying at View Talay 6 this March for a week and am paying $61. Per night including fees and taxes for a high up room facing the beach to the south. Booked via Dancewatchers.

Much cheaper to come to Pattaya in March than the peak of High Season. Even better to come in May, when the last tourists leave Pattaya, and the ladies are still in the bars, but will soon be heading home due to lack of customers.

[Philip Marlow]

Maybe Rocko20 cant but I can. You are wrong Philip Marlow.

I frequently am, but not here. If you can cite something that states that it is illegal in the Kingdom for me to approach a woman and offer money for sex, and / or to consummate the act for pay, I would appreciate it. Because nothing you wrote comes close to stating that.

Even this summary doesn't say it.

1. The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act:

This Act prohibits both male and female prostitution in public places and brothels....

Nothing about prostitution in my condo, for example. Or the lady's apartment. Why does the law (purportedly, it's been years since I read it) mention specific places? If the law doesn't specifically say something is illegal then it isn't.

This is from the revised statutes from my state in the US- "A person commits the offense of prostitution if the person engages in, or agrees or offers to engage in, sexual conduct with another person in return for a fee or anything of value. ".

Nothing you've cited even approaches such language. Because it doesn't exist.

[EihTooms]

You are correct.



Maybe Rocko20 cant but I can. You are wrong Philip Marlow. Please read below.

You are wrong. Prostitution is clearly illegal as well as profiting from it. My colleagues at Siam legal summarize it very nicely here. If you don't know, don't say. The reason you think it's legal is because it is not enforced in many situations, but the laws are clear. Prostitution is illegal in Pattaya and everywhere in Thailand.

Please read.

Although it's a misconception that prostitution is legalized in Thailand due to popular perception and how openly it is promoted, Thai laws are very much against it. Neither prostitution nor solicitation is legal in Thailand, and there are serious consequences for taking part in it. Regardless of how relaxed the laws may seem to outsiders, it is very much still possible to be fined or prosecuted for soliciting prostitution in Thailand, so it is not recommended for anyone to get involved in the sex industry.

Laws Concerning Prostitution.

There are three primary acts that make prostitution illegal in Thailand:

1. The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act:

This Act prohibits both male and female prostitution in public places and brothels and classifies prostitution as illegal. Anyone who is caught offering sexual services will be fined a minimum of 1,000 THB. Penalties for those supervising them, such as brothel owners, are higher, as this Act is not focused on punishing the sex workers themselves.

2. The Penal Code Amendment Act:

Section 286 of the Penal Code Amendment Act states that anyone over the age of 16 who subsists on the earnings of a prostitute will be imprisoned for 7 to 20 years and fined from 14,000 to 40,000 THB. Convicted offenders can even be imprisoned for life.

This does not apply to those who rely on financial support from a prostitute who is required by law or morality to provide it.

3. The Anti-Trafficking in Persons Act:

This Act criminalizes all forms of human trafficking, including sex trafficking which involves the recruitment, transfer, and exploitation of individuals for the purpose of forced prostitution. The Act also imposes severe penalties on those who assist and patronize the traffickers.

Fines and Penalties.

To demonstrate what is prohibited and what is not and the consequences that come from infractions, below are two of the many laws stated in the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act:

Section 6: Anyone who associates with another person in a prostitution establishment for the purpose of prostitution will be imprisoned for up to 1 month and fined no more than 1,000 THB. Penalties increase after repeated offenses, and deportation and blacklisting from Thailand are also possible. Furthermore, should the solicitation violate other laws and codes, as detailed below, the penalties can accumulate.

Section 8: Anyone who has sexual intercourse with or acts otherwise against a person over the age of 15 but under 18 in a prostitution establishment, with or without their consent, will be imprisoned for up to 3 years and fined between 20,000 to 60,000 THB. However, if it's sexual intercourse with a minor (under the age of 15), the offender will be imprisoned for 2 to 6 years and fined between 40,000 to 120,000 THB.

Below are a few of the laws taken from the Penal Code:

Section 277: Sexual intercourse with a minor (under the age of 15) who is neither the wife nor the husband will result in imprisonment for 4 to 20 years.

Section 279: Anyone who commits an act of indecency to a minor (under the age of 15) will be imprisoned for up to 10 years and face a fine of 20,000 THB. If the act of indecency was committed through threat, violence, or fraud, the offender will be imprisoned for up to 15 years and fined no more than 30,000 THB.

Section 280: Anyone who commits an act of indecency to a minor (under the age of 15) and causes bodily harm will be imprisoned for 5 to 20 years and fined between 10,000 to 40,000 THB. If this results in the death of the minor, the offender will receive a death sentence or lifetime imprisonment.

Section 282: Anyone who procures, seduces, or takes a male or female in order to gratify the sexual desire of a third party without their consent will be imprisoned for up to 10 years and fined up to 2,000 to 20,000 THB. If that person is over the age of 15 but under 18, then the offender will be imprisoned for 3 to 15 years and fined between 6,000 to 30,000 THB.

Pay close attention to number 1 and section 6 and section 8.

Now this is the Pattaya section so I hope this puts this issue to rest and we can move on.

You have posted this before, several of us have read it, all of it, and we have yet to see the part that says the act of exchanging sex for money between or among consenting adults is illegal. And you have yet to highlight or quote the specific passage that states the act of exchanging sex for money between or among consenting adults is illegal. We're not talking about this idea of publicly and openly soliciting it, forcing someone into doing it or procuring someone to do it for somene else. Or anyone other than consenting adults.

We're talking about consenting adults discretely discussing it, deciding to do it and going to a private room to do it.

That specific "Act of Prostitution" is simply not addressed in your list. Yet, it would be blissfully simple to find and post the words that say so.

Here is another place where those clear and simple words are never stated. You'll want to check out every section and word in Title IX:

Criminal Law in Thailand

https://www.thailandlawonline.com/ta...and-penal-code

Again, if you find a statement anywhere in Title IX or elsewhere in that link that clearly states that the specific act of exchanging sex for money between or among consenting adults is illegal, please cite that section number and quote it exactly.

The same as in the list you posted, I have carefully read Title IX several times by now and the statement I am looking for is simply not there.

In fact, the entirety of The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, The Penal Code Amendment Act and The Anti-Trafficking in Persons Act as shown in your list would scarcely be needed if elsewhere in your list, the Thai Penal Code or in the Criminal Law of Thailand link it simply said "Exchanging Sex For Money Is Illegal In Thailand. " But it doesn't.

There would then be no need to clarify or parse words about "public places and brothels. " Why no mention of hotel rooms, apartments, condos and houses? How about using the word "anywhere"?

The bit about anyone "subsisting on the earnings of a prostitute" or anything about "the recruitment, transfer, and exploitation of individuals for the purpose of forced prostitution" are addendum to the idea that have been in The Thai Penal Code for years. But none of that makes an otherwise unmentioned act of prostitution between or among consenting adults more illegal.