Bangkok Reports

[Chill Out]

.when the debate was started I was not aware that we were talking about high society non-pros versus whatever type of pro.

That's not what we were talking about at the beginning; we were talking about pros vs non-pros in general.

If a woman already comes from money why the hell would she need money and gifts from you? It seems to reason that whatever she wanted she could buy for herself or her family would provide for her.

I would agree. I've dated several rich girls (not in Thailand though, but in Asia and elsewhere) and money was not an issue at all. One shouldn't confuse the gold-diggers who walk around Siam Paragon with the real Hi-so girls. If you have been Hi-so from birth, you couldn't care less about being taken to brunch at the Sukohtai. You've been there a thousand times before. Yes, for marriage they might want a rich or highly accomplished guy due to family expectations, for dating or fun though, in my experience money matters very little to them. They can buy all the fun they want with daddy's credit card.

[Mr Enternational]

Why continue this in the expat thread? Do you assume non-expats can't get non-pros? Wrong assumption.

Not at all, but the point is not to junk up the thread for regular mongers who are looking for P4P in BKK. But here is a copy of what I put in that thread.

The debate was started whether a non-pro woman is more expensive than P4P. I can only speak for myself when I say that when the debate was started I was not aware that we were talking about high society non-pros versus whatever type of pro. I never dated rich women in my home country so why would I normally do it in Thailand. Sure we can agree that dating Angelina Jolie or Naomi Campbell we would spend more money than LT with #43 at Rainbow Bar. But how many farang in Thailand are dating or have dated a woman as such here or back home? When I entered into the debate I understood by "non-pro" we were talking about everyday office workers, nurses, schoolteachers, etc. I did not know the debate was to include college students who are driving their father's Rolls Royce or 25 year old corporate executives who are making millions of baht per year.

I am from an average middle class family and have noticed that for the most part people around the world date within their own socioeconomic group. I still hold fast to my observation, experience and hypothesis that a non-pro Thai woman is not as expensive as P4P. If a woman already comes from money why the hell would she need money and gifts from you? It seems to reason that whatever she wanted she could buy for herself or her family would provide for her.

Again, I have been coming to Thailand for 5 years and have been living here 1 year. I am not the settling down type, but of 3 non-pros who I have been involved with consistently over the last 4 years (one is in real estate, one is a school teacher, and one is a government worker) they have never once asked me for any money or any gifts, unless it was something small for their birthday. And even then they could care less what the present was. Sure they have told me many times that they want to marry me and I have told them just as many times that I don't want to get married. But I have never had any of them or any other non-pro ask me for money or gifts. I even have a friend who I have known for the same 4 years that wants me to make a baby with her, yet does not want me to support the baby, raise the baby or even see the baby thereafter. The only thing a real non-pro has ever asked of me was my time.

To me asking for money or gifts is skating in P4P territory. And the several Thais that I have had this talk with have said the same. Maybe the guy starts off trying to play Mr. Big Money and is forced to stay the course. Maybe the girl is just a bi*tch (read working girl) to begin with. If you run out of money and the woman is still with you then that is a non-pro. But if you run out of money or stop spending money and likewise went your Thai girl then she was never non-pro to begin with. She was with your money, not with you.

[Chill Out]

As an expat you can do P4P once a week and that's enough. Which isn't so expensive. Normal girls are more expensive because you end up spending more time with them.

But then you have to compare that price-wise with meeting your normal girlfriend once a week as well, which isn't very usual. The average guy sleeps with his girl more than once a week.

This only means that guys need to stop being suckers and falling for someone who only wants them for their money or material possessions.

+1.

How long have you stayed in Thailand with the same "normal" girlfriend on a daily basis? I'm guessing that it has not been very long yet.

The question wasn't for me but I'll comment anyway

My experience in Thailand is limited but I've lived in China for a long time, where a lot of people will also tell you it's impossible to keep a girl for a long time without spending money on her, gifts, fancy dinners etc. It hasn't been my experience there at all. Not at all.

So far in Thailand I can't say that I've needed to spend much to keep my non-pros happy. In fact I've been fucking with a pro for free for weeks now (and going dutch on everything we do outside the bedroom). It all depends on what you bring to the table. I love spending my time with women and making them happy . Not by buying them gifts but by giving them a good time. They are happy with me, and thus don't feel like they need to be paid for it.

Some guys like PinkPearl commented below, can't stand being with girls except for sex, which I would imagine doesn't make them the best companion (and I don't mean this as a personal attack, PinkPearl. To each his own. I'm sure you are better than me at a poker table.). In that case creating a connection is harder and money might be needed to keep a girl interested for a long time.

There seem to be a lot of guys who can't give a girl a good time to save their lives, and who comment on how it's impossible to keep a girl without paying her. Well duh.

[Chill Out]

Why continue this in the expat thread? Do you assume non-expats can't get non-pros? Wrong assumption.

[Lsmonintl]

Hello! I have been planning my first trip to BK, and have gotten much great info from this forum. Thank you all.

I would like to ask, though, if anyone has recently been to Rose Massage, Sukhumvit Soi 22. I searched the forum but only saw report / references from 2009. Which seems like lots of time for things to change. They (of course) have a lovely gallery, but we all know how great photoshop can be.

Thanks in advance! I'll put up reports of my trip (first 2 weeks of June-hey, it's when I could go.) when I get back.

LS

[BionicMan]

Biased and incorrect deduction. Those rich Thais would never spend any money on girls of substandard quality (by local norms) : their mistresses are usually not in the same league than what is available for the average foreigner in Thailand.

Again, it's all about the local market value of the girls. The rich Thais would not spend a single baht for banging the girls (well, most of them) that one can see in the photo gallery and they would be absolutely ashamed of being seen in their company.

Don't underestimate the importance of not "losing face" in Southeast Asia: a rich Thai doesn't always spend his money the way he likes, but often considering the gain in status that he may obtain with his spendings (and then showing off his expensive car, beautiful house, white-skinned young mistress, etc.).

I agree on this.

But the example started from "how much one man (rich local guy) can put to have a second wife or a date": my point ws simialr: they have their own standard and can care the less of the market based on our standards. That market has different standards"

[Mr Enternational]

On the advice of Nic I have continued the debate in the Expat thread.

http://www.internationalsexguide.inf...=1#post1155133

[Goyave]

... When one is rich can dispose of his money the way he likes...

Biased and incorrect deduction. Those rich Thais would never spend any money on girls of substandard quality (by local norms): their mistresses are usually not in the same league than what is available for the average foreigner in Thailand.

Again, it's all about the local market value of the girls. The rich Thais would not spend a single baht for banging the girls (well, most of them) that one can see in the photo gallery and they would be absolutely ashamed of being seen in their company.

Don't underestimate the importance of not "losing face" in Southeast Asia: a rich Thai doesn't always spend his money the way he likes, but often considering the gain in status that he may obtain with his spendings (and then showing off his expensive car, beautiful house, white-skinned young mistress, etc.).

[BionicMan]

That's what most rich Thais (for instance) do with their "mia noi" (= "mistress" or "second wife")!

Same happens in China. When one is rich can dispose of his money the way he likes. And that is not going to add any fuel to the evergoing debate on prices. For sure!

[NicFrenchy]

I'm not pointing to magazine covers. Just follow the money in BKK and you will see the cream of the crop and they are not hanging out with foreigners. They are hanging with rich Thais who are spending tons of cash on them. Thais have plenty of money these days to "keep" them exclusive.

Anyhow, I'm not saying that there aren't pretty, sexy women outside of the cream, its just that cream is at a level that very few, especially foreigners, can get. And that cream isn't going to go hang out with you and eat chicken rice on the cheap table on the side of the road with you on a first date. LOL.

So back to my original point: Cream of the crop Thai girls are more expensive than p4p girls. It's not rocket science!

I love these debates. Hehehe.

But wait. Aren't these discussions why we were segregated to the Expats threads in the first place?

Careful guys, we have fucked up massage threads that are split in 3, an expat section for every post that is not about which is the cheapest ST joint and which girl blows the best in which bar. Thanks to the work of some crybabies on this forum, so if we don't want these fuckers to go cry to the admin, we should move this discussion to the Expat section.

[Amjeck]

The thing is that everybody's cream of the crop is different. You can point to magazine covers all you want, but that stuff is mostly make-up, hair styling, and airbrush. In other words smoke and mirrors. And the real world is not fantasy land.

I'm not pointing to magazine covers. Just follow the money in BKK and you will see the cream of the crop and they are not hanging out with foreigners. They are hanging with rich Thais who are spending tons of cash on them. Thais have plenty of money these days to "keep" them exclusive.

Anyhow, I'm not saying that there aren't pretty, sexy women outside of the cream, its just that cream is at a level that very few, especially foreigners, can get. And that cream isn't going to go hang out with you and eat chicken rice on the cheap table on the side of the road with you on a first date. LOL.

So back to my original point: Cream of the crop Thai girls are more expensive than p4p girls. It's not rocket science!

[Goyave]

... but a car or house or cash money? You must be out of your fucking mind.

That's what most rich Thais (for instance) do with their "mia noi" (= "mistress" or "second wife")!

[Goyave]

To me every woman is average. Cream of the Crop / Quality is a term thrown around pretty loosely on this board when talking about women, whether pro or non-pro […]

But when we speak about women what is cream of the crop? Are we basing it on her level of education? How much money she has in the bank? How much money her parents have in the bank? How many friends she has? How old she is? How much she weighs? How tall she is? Her skin tone? The type of job she has? What material possessions she has? If she has kids or not? Or are we talking in terms of subjectivity here where to each his own and everyone has their own idea of what it is and it may vary?

I did not want to pursue the discussion started some time ago about the girls' real value on the local market, but it seems that some people here don't understand that yes, there are several objective criteria to evaluate it. It does not matter what your own taste is. Here, in Thailand, a girl with a fair complexion has more value than a similar girl whose skin is darker, a girl who has not been pregnant yet has more value than one who is already a mother, an 18-year old girl has more value than a more mature woman (by the way, many local girls consider that they are already old when they are over 25!), etc.

I much prefer eating mangoes (or guavas!) than durians. That's great for me, because mangoes and guavas are much cheaper. As I know the market prices, I would never pay the price of durians for buying mangoes, even if for me, mangoes are more delicious.

Same thing for the local girls: a young tall slim fair-skinned university student originating from an upper-middle class family has much more value in Thailand than a mature dark-skinned undereducated mother coming from a poor rural village of Isaan. You might have more fun and better sex with the latter, but the former is higher placed on the local scale of girls' value, and it's obvious for everyone who has spent enough time in Thailand outside of the tourist-oriented zoos.

Look at the “Sin Sot” (wedding dowry) amounts that the local males are disbursing to marry a Thai woman, and you will get a pretty good idea of what kinds of women are the “cream of the crop” and who are those that have very little value. You might disagree with their taste and criteria, but it doesn't change the fact that the market value of the local girls is not as subjective as you and other members might think.

[NicFrenchy]

Interesting conversations and viewpoints.

As far as I am concerned, I enjoy both. I may have the chance that, for me, money is not an issue. But I do not find non P4P girls to be that expensive.

Anyway, just do what you feel is good and don't lose sight of what is important in every relationship (P4P or Not) , HAVE FUN

[Pro Fesseur]

I will give them a coffee mug, a t-shirt, or in rare occaisions a pair of shoes maybe; but a car or house or cash money? You must be out of your fucking mind.

How long have you stayed in Thailand with the same "normal" girlfriend on a daily basis? I'm guessing that it has not been very long yet.