Stupid shit in Medellin

[MarquisdeSade1]

Got to tell you MDS, people's naivete on China is amazing. Somehow American deaths from Corona were Trump's fault, and China is blameless. How the hell did that happen? Clearly, China has a great PR team.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...iwan-quicktake

I sure hope so!!

[JjBee62]

It actually leaves us with more than that, which are my issues that are likewise not debatable.

"It traditionally has taken 5-10 years to get a new vaccine."

"On average, it takes 10-15 years and costs $2.6 billion to develop one new medicine, including the cost of the many failures. Only 12% of new molecular entities that enter clinical trials eventually receive USA Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval. " That says 10 years, NOT the 2 months it took for these vaccines! In addition, covid vaccines are authorized for emergency use, but they are not FDA approved.

"On average, it takes at least ten years for a new medicine to complete the journey from initial discovery to the marketplace, with clinical trials alone taking six to seven years on average. " That says clinical trials taking 6 years, not the 3 weeks it took for these vaccines!

On top of that if something happens to you because you took one of these barely tested vaccines, it is too bad so sad. You have no means to do anything about it because the makers of these vaccines are exempted from any legal action.

I need to respond to this again. It reminded me of something and I failed to address the only thing you wrote which is relevant, that it's not debatable. That's correct, but not because of anything you wrote.

When I worked for the towing company I got a call to unlock a Volvo. I arrived, said a few words to the woman and looked inside. The doors were locked and the keys were laying on the front seat. I grabbed my slim Jim and walked around to the passenger side.

When she saw the slim Jim she started telling me it was impossible to unlock a Volvo that way. I needed to get a locksmith to make a new key.

Before she could finish telling me what I was doing was impossible, I had the car unlocked. I opened the door, grabbed the keys and showed them to her. She told me she wasn't going to pay $20 for something that took me 2 seconds. I tossed the keys back on the seat, locked the door and closed it. I told her there was no charge for the first one. If she wanted me to unlock it again it was going to cost $20.

If it had taken me 20 minutes, would the car have been more unlocked?

Now let's address each of your points.

The amount of time it takes to accomplish a goal doesn't determine how well the goal was accomplished. If you run a mile in 4 minutes and I run a mile in 12 minutes, did I run the mile better? Was my mile longer than your mile?

If you spend 5 minutes convincing a non pro to fuck you is that non pro worse than the non pro you spent 45 minutes convincing?

Next, on average it takes years to get FDA approval for a medicine. But medicine and vaccines are 2 completely different things. A medicine, generally works to alter one or more aspects of your body chemistry. A vaccine has only one purpose, to trigger your immune system to produce a specific antibody. It either causes the response or not, then the vaccine goes away.

It's like this. A person throws one punch at you. Either they hit or miss, but that's it. Another person tries to kick your ass. Sometimes they hit, sometimes they miss, but you have to defend yourself until they stop.

In the first example, whatever damage you receive is almost certain to be immediately apparent. In the second, you might not realize how much damage was done for hours or days. So the development, testing and approval process for a medication is unrelated to the same process for a vaccine.

Now we come to "the vaccines don't have FDA approval. " Oxycontin and Fentanyl received FDA approval. Does that mean they were safe? Motrin initially was approved as a prescription medication. Later it was reclassified as non-prescription. Did the change in classification change the drug?

FDA approval is a bureaucratic process. It has nothing to do with the development and testing of the drug or vaccine. It's merely a recognition that the company has done their due diligence. When the vaccines become FDA approved, they will be exactly the same as the vaccines which currently have emergency use authorization.

Which brings us to the final objection, if the vaccine harms you, nobody is going to send you a check for $1 million. If you catch Covid and it harms you, nobody is going to send you $1 million either. However, the chance of Covid harming you is at least 15 million times greater than the chance of the vaccine harming you.

That leaves us with your only reason for not wanting to get vaccinated. I call it "The Mom Gambit. ".

When I was a kid I was very good at convincing my mother to let me do things she was opposed to. Scoring strictly on points, my record was perfect. However, at any time she might employ The Mom Gambit, ending any discussion.

The Mom Gambit is like the Crane Kick from "Karate Kid. " It's simple, it's elegant, it's devastating and there's no defense against it. You're going along thinking "I've got this", when out of nowhere you get a kick to the chin and it's lights out.

The Mom Gambit consists of 4 words, "because I said so. " Boom. Turn out the lights, the party's over.

You don't want to get vaccinated because you don't want to get vaccinated. It's not a decision which is based on logic. It's an emotional choice. It's no different than my attraction to short women. You can talk all day about long legs and big butts. I might even agree with your logic. However, when that little 5' 0" girl smiles at me, guess where I'm going.

Which brings us back to my original point. Nobody on this forum had presented a sound logical reason for not getting vaccinated. Every single objection boils down to "because I don't want to. " Which is absolutely fine with me. We are each free to make our own choices, even in matters which might be harmful or fatal to ourselves or others.

My only objection to all of this is you and the others trying to blow smoke up my ass and convince me there's some valid reason for something you have been unable to justify. Just grow a set of testicles and say "I don't want to do it and you can't make me. It's a lot easier than shoving 2 tons of bullshit, spraying it with Febreze and telling us it's perfume.

[Gray123]

I just went back like 8 pages and still didn't get past the two idiots arguing about covid and vaccines.

There are thousands of places to have a discussion about vaccines and covid. You can even choose one based on if you want an argument or an echo chamber.

If your chosen platform to present your argument is a site for discussing working girls, you probably aren't arguing as eloquently as you think you are.

Are there any moderators here? If so, please moderate all this shit, my own post included.

[JjBee62]

No, not you. I am saying in general. Jj got sick with the vaccine by going to Bogota and Medellin. I have been all over Colombia, all over Brazil, all over Dominican Republic, all over Thailand, all over the USA and other places. I haven't gotten shit. So as Elvis was saying, if Jj is the poster child for antivaxxers, then I am on that same poster right along with him, but for the opposite reason. Not that I am wishing to get shit or trying to get shit, but you have to figure if anybody would have gotten shit then it would have been me.

I need to correct you on that. While I was initially uncertain when and where I became infected, I can now say with 100% certainty that I was infected at home by my brother just over 1 week before I left for Colombia. 4 other people who were around him during the same period have also tested positive. He has not, and probably will not be vaccinated. Had I been tested when I was at the hospital before my trip, I would have tested positive (and never made the trip).

As I've stated before, because of some of the medications I take, I have a weakened immune system, which means, any vaccine is likely to be less effective for me than for the average person. So using me as an example, without considering my overall health condition is like pointing out a man with one leg as proof that nobody is able to run.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Got to tell you MDS, people's naivete on China is amazing. Somehow American deaths from Corona were Trump's fault, and China is blameless. How the hell did that happen? Clearly, China has a great PR team.

Here's a quote from Mitt Romney a few months ago if you can believe it.

Sen. Mitt Romney said Friday that the world is snoozing while China grows as a threat to civil rights, free economies and democracy — and that the Trump administration is failing to build a global coalition to compete against it.

The Chinese "made it very clear that their objective is to become the world's dominant player, to replace the USA As the leading nation on the planet, to replace the USA Economically, militarily and geopolitically," Romney said in a webcast to the conservative Sutherland Institute.

He added that America and the world have not paid attention to the threat.

"We as a nation and the West have been sitting back not worrying much about China, thinking about them as a developing country without recognizing that they are already the second most powerful economy in the world, that they're investing as much as we are in military hardware. ".

He said China achieving its goal as the world's superpower should concern people everywhere.

Chinese leaders "believe in an authoritarian state where there are not two parties, where there's not a free press, where opposition leaders are jailed or worse," he said.

Romney said China gives each of its residents a "social score" that goes higher if they do such things as attend pro-government rallies, but decreases if they go to church, talk to dissidents or attend pro-democracy rallies.

"If your point total gets low enough, you can't get a job," he said. "This is the way they tend to manage their people. They represent a dramatic departure from the principles of liberal democracy that have characterized the great nations of the earth. "

Romney complained that China has learned to use capitalism well but doesn't play by the rules that other nations do.

"They're now cowboy capitalists applying principles that are effective but illegal in most countries," he said.

For example, he said Indonesia produces 80% of the world's nickel used for stainless steel. He said China bought up Indonesia's stainless steel companies and nickel suppliers, and then announced it would not export any outside the county. That would amount to an illegal monopoly elsewhere, which is putting stainless steel companies in jeopardy.

"China does this industry after industry and we and the rest of the world sit there with our mouth hanging open, not knowing what to do," he said. "The answer is. Don't allow China to sell those products in our marketplace. "

But he said China has been spreading billions of dollars in foreign aid worldwide, leading many recipient countries not to complain about Chinese abuses.

"They're looking at spending a half a trillion dollars in Iran. So, of course, Iran's going to be a real friend," Romney said. He adds that similar spending in the Middle East likely has led Islamic countries to be silent about Chinese mistreatment of its Islamic Uighur minority, including beatings and widespread concentration camps.

[Villainy]

Almost any and everything you read will echo that around 99% of the CoVid deaths are in unvaccinated people. I copied a bunch of links below. They are not all parroting the CDC's findings.

(Which should be sufficient for anyone who isn't a conspiracy theorist). Many of the links are reported from individual states or counties (Maryland, North Carolina, Virginia, California, Washington).

The uniformity of the results might lead a rational person to actively seek vaccination. You are not guaranteed against getting the virus, but you are far more likely to survive it.

Isn't that enough?? Do we really need to know exactly how the virus operates or how the vaccine was conceived or who profits or who scratches their balls.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimrevi...vailable-data/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...nd-nationally/

https://www.wavy.com/covid-19-vaccin...s-in-may-june/

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...g-unvaccinated

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2021/jul/0...-cases-deaths/

https://fredericksburg.com/news/loca...2dfa1b406.html

https://www.columbian.com/news/2021/...-unvaccinated/

[Mr Enternational]

I hope you are not responding to me. I am adding to your reply about vaccine development with some additional info that I think is valid, it is nothing against your reply or your view.

No, not you. I am saying in general. Jj got sick with the vaccine by going to Bogota and Medellin. I have been all over Colombia, all over Brazil, all over Dominican Republic, all over Thailand, all over the USA and other places. I haven't gotten shit. So as Elvis was saying, if Jj is the poster child for antivaxxers, then I am on that same poster right along with him, but for the opposite reason. Not that I am wishing to get shit or trying to get shit, but you have to figure if anybody would have gotten shit then it would have been me.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I am in the University of Chicago Moderna study I joined in Aug the MD running the study was telling me in Sept and Oct they were 100% confident in the results they were seeing.

Then 5 or 6 days after the election they made that announcement, they waited until after that date, that was clearly done to fuck Trump.

They didn't want to wait too long, because people were dying (not even 1 week after election day they announced it was ready).

So I want to know, how many people died because they delayed the vax until after election day just so they could fuck orange man?

[GeneHickman]

I was speaking in hyperbole when I said 3 weeks. We know it was not developed in the YEARS that is standard for something of that nature. And again, I am no antivaxer. I do not go around trying to convince people either way. You decide what is best for you to do with your own body. The name calling and attempts to shame do not work on me. You should be able to forgive a mf that may not be on board with something like this when shit like the Tuskegee Experiment and other medical experimentation was done to their ancestors.

Mr. E, I do understand your perspective, but that said, the first people eligible for and that's took this thing were the medical personnel on the front lines. All races and mixes have as well. So if you can't see the difference well.

Even though I am mostly libertarian, I can def. Say that in a public health emergency like this, there is a role for more state pressure. I suspect more mandates will be coming after full FDA auth. And needing a vaccine for international travel could easily come to pass, and I personally wouldn't have a problem with it.

[Nounce]

I was speaking in hyperbole when I said 3 weeks. We know it was not developed in the YEARS that is standard for something of that nature. And again, I am no antivaxer. I do not go around trying to convince people either way. You decide what is best for you to do with your own body. The name calling and attempts to shame do not work on me. You should be able to forgive a mf that may not be on board with something like this when shit like the Tuskegee Experiment and other medical experimentation was done to their ancestors.

I hope you are not responding to me. I am adding to your reply about vaccine development with some additional info that I think is valid, it is nothing against your reply or your view.

[Just Incognito]

I was speaking in hyperbole when I said 3 weeks. We know it was not developed in the YEARS that is standard for something of that nature.

There was a 10 year head start on Mrna vaccines that went into this specific covid vaccine--its been tested and and developed very much in accordance with other vaccines. And with more people in more trials han any other vaccine.

[Mr Enternational]

Are you sure current Covid vaccines only took 3 weeks?

I just want to add the Covid vaccine development time is shorten partly because I have read that there are royalty free technology pooling so that helps and obviously the governments put a lot of money behind it helps too, but I don't know how much speed up is a result of those.

I was speaking in hyperbole when I said 3 weeks. We know it was not developed in the YEARS that is standard for something of that nature. And again, I am no antivaxer. I do not go around trying to convince people either way. You decide what is best for you to do with your own body. The name calling and attempts to shame do not work on me. You should be able to forgive a mf that may not be on board with something like this when shit like the Tuskegee Experiment and other medical experimentation was done to their ancestors.

[MarquisdeSade1]

These are just excuses in the anti vaxer movement. The mRNA technology has been in development for nearly 20 yrs. When the Covid-19 outbreak started, one of the only good deeds the Chinese did was to publish the genetic code for the Spike protein of the virus (it would have been identified by sequencing sooner or later in the west) but it did give a few weeks head start. Then the mRNA envelope and technology and gene splicing know how was already in place, so the actual vaccine development went really fast, just a few weeks, then the trials phase 1,2,3 all happened as normally would, looking at the same statistical end points as pertain to any peer reviewed study. The thing that helped ironically was the fact that the virus raged fast during the time of the study, allowing more in the placebo arm to get infected and reaching statistical significance sooner. If you all remember even as Trump would pressure the scientists to announce it before the election, Fauci et al, would comment that we just don't know when we will hit the end point. So finally we did in November and the safety profile to that point was stellar. Since then hundreds of millions of doses later, and about a year since the start of the phase 3 trials, it's really hard to make any reasonable arguement about short term safety. Now looking at prior vaccine trials the vast majority of issues that ever emerged, did so within that time frame, so realistically what is left is in the realm of paranoia. That won't stop the anti vaxer crowd, but the reality is that these things are proving about as darn safe as the air we breathe. Full FDA approval is forthcoming.

I am in the University of Chicago Moderna study I joined in Aug the MD running the study was telling me in Sept and Oct they were 100% confident in the results they were seeing.

Then 5 or 6 days after the election they made that announcement, they waited until after that date, that was clearly done to fuck Trump.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Are you sure current Covid vaccines only took 3 weeks?

I just want to add the Covid vaccine development time is shorten partly because I have read that there are royalty free technology pooling so that helps and obviously the governments put a lot of money behind it helps too, but I don't know how much speed up is a result of those.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...ne-design.html

[GeneHickman]

Are you sure current Covid vaccines only took 3 weeks?

I just want to add the Covid vaccine development time is shorten partly because I have read that there are royalty free technology pooling so that helps and obviously the governments put a lot of money behind it helps too, but I don't know how much speed up is a result of those.

These are just excuses in the anti vaxer movement. The mRNA technology has been in development for nearly 20 yrs. When the Covid-19 outbreak started, one of the only good deeds the Chinese did was to publish the genetic code for the Spike protein of the virus (it would have been identified by sequencing sooner or later in the west) but it did give a few weeks head start. Then the mRNA envelope and technology and gene splicing know how was already in place, so the actual vaccine development went really fast, just a few weeks, then the trials phase 1,2,3 all happened as normally would, looking at the same statistical end points as pertain to any peer reviewed study. The thing that helped ironically was the fact that the virus raged fast during the time of the study, allowing more in the placebo arm to get infected and reaching statistical significance sooner. If you all remember even as Trump would pressure the scientists to announce it before the election, Fauci et al, would comment that we just don't know when we will hit the end point. So finally we did in November and the safety profile to that point was stellar. Since then hundreds of millions of doses later, and about a year since the start of the phase 3 trials, it's really hard to make any reasonable arguement about short term safety. Now looking at prior vaccine trials the vast majority of issues that ever emerged, did so within that time frame, so realistically what is left is in the realm of paranoia. That won't stop the anti vaxer crowd, but the reality is that these things are proving about as darn safe as the air we breathe. Full FDA approval is forthcoming.