Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[Blood Red]

I really want to see how Ukrainian security can be guaranteed in any peace negotiation. Assuming a deal territories against peace, which foreign troops will be allowed by both Russia and Ukraine to guarantee the demarcation line?

Certainly no Euro troops will be allowed, no way. They can't be trusted.

I don't think anybody is against peace and for war. I think some people when they say they are for peace, they mean that they are for Ukrainian capitulation. During the last negotiations Russia was asking for a severe limitation in Ukrainian Army size and what weapons they would be allowed, which would guarantee that Ukraine could not defend itself anymore. Security guarantees would depend on a Russian veto. There was a treaty, more than 30 years ago Ukraine gave up nuclear weapons for security and territorial guarantees, Russia signed that treaty. What good is that piece of paper now?

You are forgetting that Ukraine was a neutral state, that means no NATO. That is what this war is all about.

Ukraine was neutral in 2014 and there were no talks of the government then that they are asking to join NATO. Then Putin invaded Crimeea. I find it strange that people keep saying "but in 1990 during negotiations some people said NATO would not expand". Maybe, but in the end it was never in any treaty, whatever was in the treaties then was what was accepted by the Soviet leadership at the time. Should Poland, Romania, the Baltic countries be kicked out of NATO because Putin wants that now?

What I find strange is that you totally ignore the western backed coup in 2014 which removed the democratically elected leader of Ukraine. How convenient. Cherry picking events. Why did Russia not take Crimea before 2014? What provoked them into taking Crimea? Put 2 and 2 together.

[Blood Red]

Primarily, to resist paid disinformation and propaganda. I support the cause of democratic liberalism. I want to see a healthy, educated world where there is no armed conflict and international disputes are resolved through legal means.

I had great hopes for the RF after 1992. There was a temporary blossoming of freedom, liberalism and culture, which has been suppressed by Putin's dictatorship. I am an amateur historian and have always had an interest in Russian imperialism, hegemony, territorial aggrandizement and periodic failure. In my opinion, Russia is in a much, much more fragile condition than in either 1917 or 1991. I believe, and I think you know it as well, its failure is inevitable.

As I have said, you live in gaga land. You have zero understanding of how the real world works, about international relations and realpolitik.

[Blood Red]

Really, so all the nonsense spewed by Medvedev or Russian TV is just some regular Ivan talking shit while getting drunk on a street in Moscow and doesn't have the OK from Putin?

Medvedev plays good cop / bad cop. He shouldn't be taken at face value. Someone like Putin or Lavrov, they should.

And the occupied parts from Georgia don't count?

Do you even know how the war in Georgia started and who provoked it?

And he learned that only when trying to occupy Kyiv. Zelensky might be a clown, but he didn't run away.

The clown will run away along with his billions, just wait for it.

Putin is prodding for a long time trying to find out with what he can get away. Murder people in UK or Germany? Is that OK? Endanger public safety due murdering somebody with polonium or nerve agents? Is that OK? Blow up ammunition depots or kill people involved in the weapons business inside Europe? Cutting undersea cables?

How about America blowing up the Nordstream pipleline, was that okay and acceptable?

Who is to say that the next step wouldn't be stirring up unrest in Latvia where there is significant Russian speaking population.

Like the west is doing in Georgia and failing?

You are making my point, your neighbours only feel safe when they are part of NATO because they know you too well from history.

Since when is Russia promising that they withdraw from Transnistria? Let's see, they signed an agreement in 1994 that they will withdraw, well it didn't happen. They signed another one in 1999, with a "firm" date of December 2002, that didn't happen either. Last time I checked it's 2025.

Things like this are why your neighbours don't trust you one kopeck.

I'm not a Russian or anything close. I just understand why the Ukraine war happened and who provoked it and how easily it could've been prevented. Transnistria like the 4 new territories should decide in a fair referendum whether they want to stay with Russia, be independent or join Molvova / Ukraine.

[Blood Red]

Remember that propacondom?

He posted it on 01.01, 10 days ago.

Well, AFU left Kurakhove yesterday. As in 01.10.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russians-...233834454.html

How do you know a Russian propacondom is lying? His fingers are moving.

I don't know what your dumbass is trying to say here, but I posted facts that the Russians captured Kurakhove. The Ukrainians usually take days to weeks to acknowledge their defeat, but now you know it's true. And since you do not have a military background (or much of a brain), I'd like to inform you that when a city or town is taken, it takes several days / weeks to clear it completely of pockets of resistance.

Also, the Russians captured Toretsk.

P. s Ukraine is winning.

[Xpartan]

Appeasing the enemy at its finest.

Remember how a few years back The NYT aired allegations that Putin had offered bounties on the lives of the US servicemen in Afghanistan? Back then the US government concluded it was just unsubstantiated rumors.

Turned out, they weren't rumors, and the whole affair doesn't look good for Joe Biden's legacy.

Democrats cited the 2020 New York Times report as evidence that Donald Trump was failing to stand up to Russia. While it was raised by President Joe Biden in a call with Russian President Vladimir Putin just after taking office in 2021, the U.S. took no specific action over the reported operation.

Six former CIA officers who analyzed the intelligence on the GRU's operations in Afghanistan told The Insider its findings "complement and amplify" the conventional wisdom of the U.S. intelligence community.

The NYT article came around in 2020, two years before the full-scale Russian aggression against Ukraine. Obviously, the bulk of killings occurred under Trump, but it was Biden who dropped the ball. Now the ball is back in Trump's court. Do you know what he's going to do about it? Absolutely nothing!

A former CIA officer told The Insider: "There are many instances when we got punched in the face and were told to do nothing about it for fear of escalation."

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-gru-...bounty-2014673

https://theins.ru/en/politics/277723 - The original The Insider / Der Spiegel story.

[Questner]

While we have to say bye-bye to neutrality of the land of fine chocolate (pesking PESCO indeed, https://www.admin.ch/gov/en/start/do...id-102126.html), here is the Russian Presidential Aide and permanent member of the Security Council Nikolai Patrushev about what Russia should expect from the new Washington administration and how to respond to possible shifts in policy towards Russia, quote:

Question: Representatives of the new US administration, in particular, the advisers appointed by Trump, admit in some of their speeches that Russia will under no circumstances cede to Ukraine or anyone else the territories that have already become part of the Russian Federation.

- This is not even up for discussion. The territories that were once governed from Kyiv became part of Russia based on the expression of will of citizens in accordance with international law, the laws of the Russian Federation and the legislation of these regions.

As for the Russian line on Ukraine, it remains unchanged. It is important for us that the tasks of the SMO be solved. They are known and have not changed. Russian President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly named them.

It is also important that the world recognizes the inclusion of the DPR, LPR, Zaporizhzhya and Kherson regions, the Republic of Crimea and Sevastopol, which are an integral part of our country in accordance with the Constitution, into the Russian Federation.

I would like to emphasize once again that the Ukrainian people remain close to us, fraternal, connected by centuries-old ties with Russia, no matter how much the Kiev propagandists obsessed with "Ukrainianism" claim the opposite. We are not indifferent to what is happening in Ukraine.

What is particularly disturbing is that violent coercion into neo-Nazi ideology and rampant Russophobia are destroying once prosperous cities in Ukraine, including Kharkov, Odessa, Nikolaev, and Dnepropetrovsk.

It is possible that in the coming year Ukraine will cease to exist altogether.

If we talk about specific prospects for further developments taking into account the Trump factor, we respect his statements. I believe that negotiations on Ukraine should be conducted between Russia and the United States without the participation of other Western countries.

There is nothing to talk about with London and Brussels. The EU leadership, for example, has long since lost the right to speak on behalf of many of its members, such as Hungary, Slovakia, Austria, Romania and some other European countries interested in stability in Europe and taking a balanced position with respect to Russia.

[Xpartan]

Navalny and related matters well identify the sort of regime you advocate appeasement towards. It's thus no wonder that you make a beeline to Hiroshima.

Appeasement of the likes of Putin has been a non-starter for the West, and should continue to be so, as such promotes aggression.

I think you very likely understand the Navalny context, but choose to change the subject, while Hiroshima was already extensively litigated in the past. You persistent refusal to stay on topic can likewise be considered cowardly. But as much as you complain about that accusation, looks as though you know we are onto something.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

It feels as if Tiny was trying to develop a fallacy of his own since comparing a politically-motivated murder to a war campaign is way too clumsy to rise up to any known fallacies IMHO.

Say Tiny invokes Dresden or Hiroshima to justify Russia's bombardments of Mariupol (that killed at least TENS of thousands of civilians). That's understandable and predictable and would amount to old, good false analogy.

But this? Simply bizarre.

[Sirioja]

Even I love Russia for the interesting country, but I hate crazy shameful Putin, twin with Trump for me, my big support to courageous Ukrainians resisting to keep their land and freedom. I wish Georgia, Romania and Moldavia will follow such courageous example and same for Canada, Greenland / Denmark versus Trump.

[Paulie97]

"Let's give peace a chance. " Yea, sure, right. Wink.

Russian President Vladimir Putin maintains his maximalist pre-war demands to isolate Ukraine and weaken NATO and reportedly aims to enforce these demands in any possible talks with Western leaders about ending the war in Ukraine. The Financial Times (FT) reported on January 10, citing a former senior Kremlin official and another source who has discussed this topic with Putin, that Putin will maintain his pre-war demands of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO and forcing NATO to withdraw from deployments in Eastern Europe in any such talks by "changing the rules" of the international system to ensure that there are "no threats to Russia," a callback to his December 2021 ultimatum to the United States ahead of the full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Putin demanded in 2021 that NATO commit to not accepting Ukraine or any other countries as new members; the United States commit to upholding the ban on NATO enlargement; NATO not deploy any military forces to states that became NATO members after May 1997; ban any NATO military activity in Ukraine, Eastern Europe, the Caucasus, and Central Asia; ban deployments of intermediate-range missiles in areas that could reach Russian or NATO state territory; and ban the United States from deploying intermediate-range missiles in Europe or nuclear missiles outside of US territory. Putin notably used and intensified this narrative in 2021 to shape the information space and justify the full-scale invasion of Ukraine ahead of his February 2022 full-scale invasion even though the prospect of imminent NATO membership for Ukraine did not drive him to invade Ukraine as he claimed. NATO did not undertake any meaningful actions to expand in Eastern Europe or advance Ukraine's future NATO membership between the 2008 Bucharest Declaration, which promised Ukraine and Georgia eventual NATO membership, and 2022. Putin's December 2021 demands notably extend beyond Ukraine and aim to roll NATO back. The Kremlin likely seeks to resurrect this narrative in an attempt to manipulate Western leaders into acquiescing to Putin's maximalist demands that would weaken NATO under the guise of "compromise" in any future peace negotiations regarding the war in Ukraine. Kremlin Spokesperson Dmitry Peskov reiterated on January 10 that the Kremlin is ready to hold talks with Trump without any "preconditions," but ISW continues to assess that no negotiations will result in a meaningful or sustainable peace as long as Putin remains committed to his pre-war demands for full Ukrainian capitulation and the weakening of NATO.

https://understandingwar.org/backgro...anuary-11-2025

[Paulie97]

The deep state seems to originated this whole shaming crap and making the accusation of being a "Putin lover".

Why does the mythical "deep state" need to do that when Trump has done such a marvelous job of it on his own? The Russian spread of disinformation in the lead ups to our elections has been so ever present as to be be common knowledge, yet Trump publicly just took Little Vlad's word for it that it wasn't going on. Trump called Little Vlad's invasion of Ukraine "genius" and "savy," and the list goes on. No "Democrat" conspiracy theories needed, but smart money is now on Trump caring enough about his legacy to refrain from tossing Ukraine under the bus. That's especially once it's clear that Putin is all in and wants it all.

BTW, a lot of Republicans are freedom loving vets that respect Ukraine while realizing that freedom isn't free. That while they are nauseated by appeasement oriented, conspiracy theory chasing keyboard weasels like you and Tiny.

[Paulie97]

Navalny is one person...Around 200,000 died from the Hiroshima bomb.

Navalny and related matters well identify the sort of regime you advocate appeasement towards. It's thus no wonder that you make a beeline to Hiroshima.

Appeasement of the likes of Putin has been a non-starter for the West, and should continue to be so, as such promotes aggression.

I think you very likely understand the Navalny context, but choose to change the subject, while Hiroshima was already extensively litigated in the past. You persistent refusal to stay on topic can likewise be considered cowardly. But as much as you complain about that accusation, looks as though you know we are onto something.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

[Paulie97]

"CONSPIRACY-PSEUDOSCIENCE.

Sources in the Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category may publish unverifiable information that is not always supported by evidence. These sources may be untrustworthy for credible / verifiable information; therefore, fact-checking and further investigation is recommended on a per-article basis when obtaining information from these sources. See all Conspiracy-Pseudoscience sources.

Overall, we rate ZeroHedge an extreme right-biased conspiracy website based on the promotion of false / misleading / debunked information that routinely denigrates the left. ".

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

The site is based in Bulgaria. But folks, at least we finally got a source citation out of him. That's progress! Wink.

[Xpartan]

Remember that propacondom?

The Russians took Kurakhove.

He posted it on 01.01, 10 days ago.

Well, AFU left Kurakhove yesterday. As in 01.10.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russians-...233834454.html

How do you know a Russian propacondom is lying? His fingers are moving.

[Paulie97]

Yes, I'll be responsible for Ukraine's failure to regain lost territories. Questner and Blood Red are paid Russian propagandists. And one that cracks me up, you and I are cowards. The person or people saying that haven't to my knowledge volunteered to fight on the front lines in Ukraine. I'm not intending to single out Paulie here. Those are just some of the comments posters have made in this thread.

Yea it was your pal Elvis calling on me to go fight for Ukraine. LOL I've never asked you or him to do that for Russia, but someone might have suggested that Blood Red and Questner join the meat grinder for what may well be their nation of origin. Appeasement is cowardly as well as impractical, while your incessant online anti-Americanism is the same.

[Paulie97]

Quoque tu too, and quoque your Ivy Leave philosophy degree.

Really all you need to do is darken the doorway of a community college, or, even easier, just study logical fallacies through your favorite search engine. Your constant whataboutisms only serve to weaken your arguments.

This is my last group of posts for a time as I'm planning a series of travel adventures. Here's hoping my recent posts added some food for thought and discussion.