Rants, Stupid Shit and Coronavirus in Thailand

[EihTooms]

Selective Enforcement
You make my point about prostitution establishments. All other prostitution establishments get a pass. Until they don't. Just like the law against nominee business structures are being enforced now after 20 years of lying dormant on the books. The laws are on the books for the Royal Thai Police to shut down prostitution establishments using the definition found in the the current law anytime they would like.

It's a stretch and highly doubtful that either the Windmill Bar or the Soi 6 bar were determined to be "prostitition establishments" in this case. All of the details of the reports you linked argue against it.

1. The police had to wait to be tipped off by an informant that prostitution was taking place inside the bars before they bothered to go inside them. And even then they had to wait until an offer to exchange sex for money was made to them. That is antithetical to the whole idea of a prostitution in a promiscuous manner establishment being set up for the purpose of prostitution as Thai Law clearly but narrowly defines it. Nobody needs to be tipped off by an informant and sit inside a McDs until someone's asks them if they want a hamburger to know immediately a block away that the building with those Golden Arches and the words "delicious cheeseburgers, 99 baht" on the window is a hamburgers sold in a promiscuous manner restaurant.

2. There is no mention in the reports that anyone was arrested and charged with running a "prostitution establishment", which has its own category of charges and penalties associated with it in the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996.

3. Of the very few arrests and charges mentioned in the reports, the only people who were arrested and charged with anything were 3 people in Windmill Bar who could only have been proprietors, managers and / or mamasans of the Bar. And charges were only left pending for anyone at the Soi 6 bar. There was no mention of prostitutes or customers of prostitutes being arrested and charged for any crime in those bars.

4. As you, I and anyone who has read the Section in the Act related to "prostitution establishments", the Law is that virtually anyone and everyone consorting, working in or patronizing a "prostitution establishment" as characterized by the Act's clear but narrow definition of prostitution in Thai Law is subject to being arrested, heavily fined and imprisoned. And there was no round up and arrests of any patrons or non-management staff in those bars for anything, much less for anything related to them patronizing or working in a "prostitution establishment" according to Thai Law.

It's always possible I suppose. But all of the known characteristics of a WS bar and a Soi 6 bar as well as every detail of those linked reports argues very much against it.

[SubCmdr]

Anyone here getting laid?

In the discussion about the legality of prostitution in Thailand with the Senior Member who lives in Bangkok who is not a Thai Citizen nor member of the bar in Thailand, I am the ONLY one (1) that it is fucking. A review of the plain language of his posts compared to mine will reveal that.

Asked and Answered!

[SubCmdr]

Nana Plaza in Bangkok shut down its on-site short time rooms too for that same reason. That would be too close to the proprietors profiting from prostitution as a commercial business and therefore illegal in Thailand.

Were there any signs? No, there were not!.

We already know that a couple of BJ Bars in Bangkok were temporarily shutdown a few years ago because the ladies sitting outside got too loud, overt and shameless about describing the sex acts for sale inside their venue to the pedestrians passing by. That is illegal in Thailand. But they soon reopened and since then and for years now the ladies just describe the sex acts for sale inside their venue in a normal voice to potential customers that approach them up close.

I have been in Windmill a few times and could see there were customers paying the ladies for "sexual gratification" activities like DATY right onstage, in full view of everyone in the bar and it being done as a matter of routine exchange of money for sex. The fact that we can only vaguely recall one time in the past when that place was closed down for being a "prostitution establishment" but only for drifting into the part of Thai Law where the ST rooms on the premises could be construed as concrete evidence they were running a commercial prostitution in a promiscuous manner establishment

I have made this point repeatedly in my posts and when I quote the law. Thank you for finally acknowledging what I have have been saying this entire time.

That qualifier for the Act's definition for what THEY mean when they say Prostitution follows through into all of the Sections including the concept of a "Prostitution Establishment".

A shop on Sukhumvit Road or Asoke where weed is advertised and sold commercially to anyone and everyone who walks in the door with the proper prescription in a promiscuous manner and regardless how the sales clerk personally feels about it or personally thinks of the customer would be a "weed selling establishment". The same principle would apply but without a prescription required to the various "hamburger establishments", "t-shirt establishments" or "smartphone establishments" in the neighborhood.

According to the plain language definition of Prositution in the Act, owning, operating, managing, working in or patronizing a venue that offers or allows the commercial sale of sex in a promiscuous manner or hawks it openly and shamelessly in a public place (redacted for brevity) is illegal.

Your constant assertions that EihTooms that prostitution is legal in Thailand is incorrect. I will continue you teach you about Thai Law for as long it takes you to learn about how it applies to the actual realities that exist in Thailand.

Prostitution is not Legal in Thailand

Period. Full Stop!

[SubCmdr]

Individuals are speaking about Pattaya without knowledge of the actual nightlife. You cannot find out everything by walking around on the streets observing from outside and watching YouTube. Gentleman's Clubs, Soi 6 Bars, Bars on Soi Buahkao and massage parlors all have rooms available.

The Cmdr knows Pattaya!

[EihTooms]

This is where the line was crossed as far as Thai police were concerned. They don't care if girls are taken elsewhere to bang but to do it in the WS gogo bar was too much to turn the other cheek. There was one other very popular WS gogo bar which also had rooms upstairs but they immediately shut that down when Windmill was busted. I won't name the bar since it's still one of the top 8 WS gogo bars around.

Nana Plaza in Bangkok shut down its on-site short time rooms too for that same reason. That would be too close to the proprietors profiting from prostitution as a commercial business and therefore illegal in Thailand.

And as it is on WS in Pattaya, there is a police station / shack right outside of the entrance to Nana Plaza and the police walking and driving by all the time couldn't care less about the prostitutes from those bars and their customers strolling to the various other short time hotel facilities in the area or back to the customer's or the prostitute's apartment right under their nose. No Serpentine zig-zag running for their lives to those private quarters is required because the police know very well that as long as the prostitute appears to be at least 18 years old and is strolling along with her / his customer of her / his own free will and consent no Thai law has been broken.

There is a new supposed "gentlemen's club" located on the first sub-soi on the right as you walk away from Sukhumvit Road on Soi 8 in Bangkok. There are a few pretty good looking ladies working there too. The name of it is The Whiskey Gentlemen's Club. I have stopped in a couple of times. There are no on-site private rooms, which, is apparently the case for some gentlemen's clubs in Pattaya. Actually, I don't think what happens in that Bangkok so-named gentlemen's club is very much like what happens in many of Pattaya's version of one.

[SubCmdr]

This is where the line was crossed as far as Thai police were concerned. They don't care if girls are taken elsewhere to bang but to do it in the WS gogo bar was too much to turn the other cheek. There was one other very popular WS gogo bar which also had rooms upstairs but they immediately shut that down when Windmill was busted.

You make my point about prostitution establishments. All other prostitution establishments get a pass. Until they don't. Just like the law against nominee business structures are being enforced now after 20 years of lying dormant on the books. The laws are on the books for the Royal Thai Police to shut down prostitution establishments using the definition found in the the current law anytime they would like.

https://mekongmigration.org/labourla...Act%201996.pdf

What the law says is here (translated from Thai Language of course). Need for interpretation by a Non Thai Citizen non member of the bar in Thailand.

FACTS

The Thai legal system does not provide a clear definition for the phrase in a promiscuous manner within the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996.

The Act defines prostitution as sexual acts performed to gratify another person's desires in a "promiscuous manner" in return for money or benefit. Legal sources explicitly state that no clear definition of "promiscuous manner" is provided in the statute. Similarly, the phrase "open and shameless manner" used regarding solicitation is also not clearly defined.

Consequently, the interpretation of these terms relies on judicial discretion and the specific circumstances of each case, such as whether the acts are causing a public nuisance or occurring in established prostitution establishments.

Prostitution Establishment means the place or premises arranged for prostitution or allowed for prostitution, and shall include the place used for making contact or procuring another person for prostitution.

What does it mean to solicit for prostitution?

Solicitation of prostitution is requesting, agreeing to pay, or negotiating for sexual services in exchange for money or something of value, even if no actual sexual act occurs.

Section 6

Any person who associates with another person in a prostitution establishment for the purpose of prostitution of oneself or another person shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month or to a fine not exceeding one thousand Baht or to both. If the offense under paragraph one is committed on account of compulsion or under an influence which cannot be avoided or resisted, the offender is not guilty.

Let me break down the elements of the crime for you:

associates with another person in a prostitution establishment for the purpose of prostitution

Our International Trick is associating with another person in a prostitution establishment.

The prostitution establishment is the place allowed for prostitution: Room Upstairs. These can be found in bars, massage places, gentleman's clubs, Soi 6.

Solicitation: When the male customer asks how much for short time.

All elements of the crime are present to prove a violation of Section 6! Period. Full Stop!

But they both have a defense: If the offense under paragraph one is committed on account of compulsion or under an influence which cannot be avoided or resisted, the offender is not guilty..

They were both drunk!. ROTFLMAO!!

The Prosecution Rests your Honor!

[Banana Boi]

And I remember Windmill being raided and shut down for having short time rooms on site.

This is where the line was crossed as far as Thai police were concerned. They don't care if girls are taken elsewhere to bang but to do it in the WS gogo bar was too much to turn the other cheek. There was one other very popular WS gogo bar which also had rooms upstairs but they immediately shut that down when Windmill was busted. I won't name the bar since it's still one of the top 8 WS gogo bars around.

[EihTooms]

Can we all agree that in Thailand prostitution is de jure (as a matter of law) illegal, but de facto (in actuality) accepted as an every day part of life? That would make both sides of the argument right in the end. It's illegal, but you find it all over the place because the authorities don't enforce the law, except for on occasion and very selectively.

If you had said Thailand and Thai Law's own very narrow legal definition of prostitution is illegal in Thailand but not anyone else's definition of it is illegal in Thailand if that legal definition is the mere exchange of sex for money or money for sex between consenting adults or the mere discussing and agreeing to engage in that exchange in private, then the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996 would agree with you and so would I.

And when it comes to the Thai Penal Code, that legally enforceable document has nothing at all to say about any version or definition of Prostitution except that it is illegal for anyone age 16 or more who can take care of themselves to live off the income of a prostitute. That's it. Nothing more.

The reason consenting adult prostitutes and customers of those prostitutes in Thailand are not arrested and charged with a crime for discussing and agreeing to exchange money for sex or sex for money and then retreating to private quarters to fulfill that agreement is because there is no law in any legally enforceable document citing those behaviors to be illegal, crimes or punishable by any penalty whatsoever.

Which is why there has been no report of any arrest or charge for those behaviors in any bar, nightclub or any other venue or location in Thailand nor has it ever happened "in secret" but mysteriously never reported in the media. Ever.

It isn't because every one of the Thai police have decided to ignore it. Nor is it because every one of them are being bribed to ignore it.

They don't make arrests for those things and the Thai DOJ does not charge or convict anyone of a crime for doing those things because there is no Citation or Section stating those behaviors to be illegal or crimes on the books to charge them for, never has been and never will be.

The question has been asked one way or another dozens of times on this Forum over the years; if someone thinks the mere person-to-person discussion and agreement to exchange money for sex or sex for money between consenting adults age 18 or older and that the mere fulfillment of that agreement in private is illegal or a crime in Thailand then please produce a link to the legally enforceable document in Thailand stating that it is illegal and a crime and a quote of the Citation or Section that says so in a plain language sentence.

So far nobody has been able to do it. Because no such Citation or Section exists, never has and never will in Thailand.

Which, granted, is very different from the legal definition of prostitution and solicitation for prostitution in other countries, in the mind of people from other countries and as it is perhaps commonly understood in the minds of many everywhere.

But, obviously, Thailand and Thai Law doesn't give a shit about those other definitions of it. They have instead taken great pains and gone to extraordinary measures to write laws in words and sentences that travel wide circles around and away from any sentence that might be inadvertently misunderstood to be stating those mere acts to be illegal and crimes when it would have been blissfully easy for them to simply state it as clearly and in plain language as other countries' laws on the topic are written if that was ever their intention. Which it isn't their intention now, never has been and never will be.

Thailand and Thai Law apparently doesn't WANT those other legal definitions of it to come within a mile of their own very narrow legal definition of it. That's why no legally enforceable document in Thailand allows so much as a single sentence to find its way into the text of those documents suggesting such a thing, much less spelling it out in plain language.

[SubCmdr]

I'll have to be very wary of accepting what you "teach" us about Bitcoin, crypto, the stock market and land investments from now on.

Start date October 15,2026.

Three Senior Members individuals have challenged my investment abilities. If they know so damn much here is my challenge to them.

Here is my challenge to them:

3 markets, Oil (Brent), Gold, Bitcoin.

Predict the high and low between the Start date of October 15,2026 and End Date of December 31,2026.

This is the chart we will use for Brent Oil Spot (USD):

https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/brent-crude-oil

This is the chart we will use for Gold Spot (USD):

https://www.apmex.com/gold-price

This is the chart we will use for Bitcoin Spot (USD):

https://www.coinbase.com/price/bitcoin

Each prediction is scored by the distance of the prediction from the high and the low in either direction. The total distance is added up for each market. And like golf, the predictions with the lowest total distance wins. Winner takes the entire pot.

The bet is 30000 THB for each participant placed up front in escrow.

Talk is cheap. Easy to be a critic

Show some testicular fortitude and put some money on the line. Let's see who steps up!

[SubCmdr]

Can we all agree that in Thailand prostitution is de jure (as a matter of law) illegal, but de facto (in actuality) accepted as an every day part of life?

That has been my position during the entire discussion. I have already proven this beyond a reasonable doubt.

That would make both sides of the argument right in the end. It's illegal, but you find it all over the place because the authorities don't enforce the law, except for on occasion and very selectively.

Agreed!

T has not been my goal to be right. My goal has been to inform my fellow International Tricks. As long at the personal attacks continue, I will continue to respond. This is not the NBA, there are no free shots. The Senior Member does not fuck. That is why he gets he jollies going back and forth with me, often straying from the legal argument and writing defamatory statements about me. He hides behind the vail of secrecy using the internet. But what is one to do?

[The Cane]

Can we all agree that in Thailand prostitution is de jure (as a matter of law) illegal, but de facto (in actuality) accepted as an every day part of life? That would make both sides of the argument right in the end. It's illegal, but you find it all over the place because the authorities don't enforce the law, except for on occasion and very selectively.

[EihTooms]

Prostitution IS illegal in Thailand but only Prostitution as is clearly and in plain language very narrowly defined for legal purposes in the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996 while it is totally missing as even the topic of a potential crime in the Thai Penal Code.

Maybe that's why editorial commentary in many media reports on arrests "for prostitution" in Thailand often state that it is "technically" illegal in Thailand. Yeah, only if you apply Thai Law's extremely strict and narrow parameters around the concept of prostitution.

technically
/ˈteknək(ə)lē/
Technically means according to a strict, literal interpretation of exact facts, rules, or definitions, often differing from common perception or everyday use.

That would be it.

SubCmdr's assertion and opinions offered by other countries' state departments and typically lazy media sources that don't even bother to include that telling "technically" qualifier would be accurate if they stated it this way; Prostitution as legally and very narrowly defined in Thai Law is not legal but is nothing like some Podunk country's legal definition of it..

Otherwise, it's very misleading by omission of the critical qualifier.

[EihTooms]

I do remember the Pattaya police arresting a Farang for prostitution, using a recently arrested lady in a sting operation.

And I remember Windmill being raided and shut down for having short time rooms on site.

Explorer, you don't need to provide a link for the Windmill Bar bust or a Soi 6 bar bust.

SubCmdr already provided the links to those reports and, sure enough, as has been the case with every such news report posted in this Forum, it turned out no prostitutes were arrested for exchanging sex for money or anything else and no customers were arrested for exchanging money for sex with a consenting adult in Thailand.

There were only arrests of, presumably, three mamasans and / or managers of Windmill Bar for the crimes clearly stated in plain language in the Act that have been discussed as such here many times. And despite questioning some 18 staff / prostitutes in a Soi 6 bar and encountering perhaps dozens of customers of prostitutes in the bar, none of them were arrested and charged with any crime.

As expected and predicted.

[EihTooms]

SubCmdr takes two more swings and scores two more misses! LOL.

We already know procuring, managing and running a commercial prostitution ring is illegal as is engaging underage sex workers for it. It's right there in plain language in the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act of 1996.

Haven't you read that yet?

Please provide the link to the news story. I am interested in reading it.

Windmill GoGo in Pattaya raided: Three arrested over prostitution and underage sex.

https://thethaiger.com/hot-news/crim...d-underage-sex

From your link:

Police also found accounts detailing customer transactions, timesheets for the women who worked there and condoms.

A man and two women were arrested. They will face charges relating to human trafficking, prostitution and the procurement of underage women for sex.

Human trafficking, prostitution (the proprietors of a commercial prostitution business) and procurement. All of which are stated in plain language to be illegal and never refuted by me or anyone else here.

There is no mention that the people arrested were a customer and any prostitutes. They couldn't have been the three arrested and charged in the entire Windmill Bar bust because Windmill Bar has at least twice as many mamasans and managers as that and they would have been the only ones arrested in that bust.

http://<a href="https://thethaiger.c...derage-sex</a>

Please note that this prostitution establishment was unmarked. Note also the mention of the venue having rooms available above the bar for customers. Yet there are senior members who say prostitution is legal in Thailand.

And here it is again. Who was arrested? What were the charges?

From your link:

Charges from the raid could include human trafficking, prostitution and the procurement of women for underage sex. The 18 staff were interviewed separately to gather evidence for pending legal action against the venue and owners.

Pending legal action against the venue and owners?

So out of 18 staff / prostitutes and likely dozens of customers in the bar, no prostitutes and no customers of prostitutes were arrested and charged with anything, as appears to have also been the case with Windmill Bar bust.

Now, why do you suppose that is, SubCmdr?

[SubCmdr]

Sorry, SubCmdr, you'll have to come up with better ways to communicate with Thai authorities here and elsewhere to encourage them to shut down gogo bars, beer bars, restaurants, hotels, shopping malls, cinemas, temples, bowling alleys and other locations all over Thailand and getting their proprietors and everyone on ISG arrested and interrogated for entering, patronizing and "allowing" something for which there is no crime in Thailand to take place.

This paragraph illustrates why the OP posts here mostly. You won't find a fuck report from him.