View Full Version : Living in Brazil
Interesting story Fartknocker.
If your story of Cabo Frio got out to every frustrated middle aged man in America, I think this country would have a revolution.
Let's face it. Men in America are lost. They forgot (or were programmed to forget) what it means to be a man. A man constantly wants to fuck different young beautiful women to propogate the species. It is good to hear that you continue to this fine tradition.
Re: trophies. I think the difficulty here lies in this blunt truth: trophy girlfriends/wives are highly sought after in Brazil by Brazilian men...sometimes very rich Brazilian men. Thus, in Brazil, a country where money chasing is a way of life, the true stunners (especially with a brain and decent upbringing) know they can trade their bodies and looks for wealth and status. Status being key here. Dating a rich Brazilian empresario may bring more status to her than dating a part-time philandering gringo.
After all, for those with money in Brazil, a middle class life in the United States is almost like becoming a favela dweller. No maid, no cook, no driver, have to do your own laundry? Yes, Brazilians girls can be very spoiled in this way. A green card means shit to them.
So I wonder. For a aging American man. Should learning Portuguese be your single most important activity? I think so. Men with can, is able to live like a man and continually take and bed young women as nature meant you to. Without it, you are stuck in the U.S. mowing your lawn and renting a movie at Blockbuster after a dinner at Sizzler's.
One more question for you Fartknocker. I am thinking of doing another short stint in Brazil. But I wonder. Rent is so cheap outside of Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo. Have you thought of renting a place for 1 year, decorating it, and just having it to use when you go down? I believe economically, even if you only go down for a few months, it may be worth it. A love den if you will.
All,
IMHO I think Rio Nut hit it right on the head. Speaking portuguese is key and if I had only known what treasures awaited down here I would have been studying it in college for sure. That or swedish (a friend recently sent me a set of photos from some clube in stockholm, my god the talent there is unbelievable). but speaking the language gives you so much better access to the girls.
Also, totally concur with the situation of the rich brazilian girls. Most of them have european passports and really don't give a shit about a US greencard. No maid (who cooks, cleans and does the laundry), no beach house, no club in the city, is what potentially awaits them by switching to a gringo. Access to those girls is always through friends of friends or just being lucky, or really being into the dance club scene. For instance, last year there was a dance club that reportedly Ford Model agency sent girls to because they had a financial interest in the club. Best bet for models is non-pro dance club scene.
Alternatively for getting access to really hot brazilian girls, one place is actually New York City (guessing miami runs a close second). I have a buddy in NYC who (without speaking portuguese but after a trip to Rio saw the light) has been able to source some very hot brazilian girls that were up there for fun, school, or work. They weren't pros although one of them my guess after meeting her was that she might be doing tricks on the side. But of course that is much more of an infrequent dabble in the wonders of female brazilian flesh. Being local is always better.
Photo55
Fartknocker
09-06-04, 13:56
Rio Nut,
Brazil is great for the libido and the ego, but it is far from paradise. I wouldn't ever consider trading in my American passport for a Brazilian one no matter how much pussy I would get living down there. I would need to get back to the US regularly to keep my head straight.
I suppose if one were to live in Brazil for several months per year, every year, doing a long-term lease on an apartment would be a good idea. I believe the legally mandated term for a lease is 30 months, so renting for a year would still be "short term." However, most of these leases only require a month's rent to break, so it really isn't as bad as it sounds.
One thing you can do in beach town like Cabo Frio is to sublet your apartment during the summer (Jan - Mar), especially during Carnival. I know most guys on this board would rather be using the apartment themselves during Carnival, but you need to keep in mind that subletting during the summer will probably pay most of the year's rent. So you are essentially using the place for free the other nine months per year.
Besides that, Cabo Frio is really too small for all the Cariocas that come in during Carnival. Traffic is a hairy fucking b*tch. Personally I prefer October to December. The weather is nice, the college girls are back in town, and the traffic is just fine.
Maybe in another five years I'll be doing this, but not until I have all my financial ducks in a row. I made the jump too soon last time and paid the price.
HotTraveler
09-06-04, 21:34
Hello Member 1461!
Here I'm again.
I believe that the correct amount to can to live in Brazin are 2. 500 Reais at month:
750 Reais to rent a apparment (good quality) 450 Reais in food or other things
And the rest to enjoy with girls, going out, etc, etc.
If you don´t like Rio or Sao Paulo, a good option can to be the city of Fortaleza. The prices here are specially cheap in many things and the nightlife is exciting, specially in Monday. About the possibility to put the money in a brazilian bank, I´ve investigated and discovered that, for example, Citibank has the called "fundos de investimento em renda fixa" who offer about 1´00 % of rate of interest for the capital.
In Spain, a financial institution offer only a 0´54 % at month.
It´s the most high interest here.
Greetings
Charm City Dave
09-06-04, 23:44
If you want the best short term interest rate is it the ING Orange account. It is 2.2% no minimum, It has no services like checking or ATM, but you link it to your checking account and that is how you get money in and out. The have a very secure Web site to do the transfers. It is FDIC insured to 100K. I love it.
If you want a $20 sign on bonus, I can send you a link, but you have to PM me your email, first and last name.
Yada yada yada
I agree Fartknocker, Brazil has major problems. I remember getting sick and tired of running into dumb ignorant Brazilians who kept threatening to shoot people after getting drunk. It is amazing how pathetic so many Brazilians are.
Bango Cheito
09-07-04, 07:12
To me, ignorant Brazilians sound just like ignorant Americans. I also feel very strongly that no matter where you are in the world, people generally try to screw you.
And sometimes being off the books is better. I feel like these days, you can't get a break in the US because everything is way too much on the up and up, or at any rate much more so than it used to be.
CBGB, I'd never leave a large amount of money in ANY bank, in BR the US or ANYWHERE. My rule of thumb is once you've got it, use it or invest it! Real estate or equity funds are almost always a better bet than currency. Especially if you buy in a major urban area, you've usually hitched a ride on a train going straight uphill.
Hi Guys,
I am moving to Rio at the end of October for possibly a few months. I use a GSM handset here in London and I was wondering will I be able to use this with a Brazilian SIM card in Rio.
ALso, can anyone attest as to the quality of Brazilian condoms. I will stock up with my own supply if needs be!
Thanks for all the great info
Paddy
Howcome you get so mediocre interest rates in Spain, the US and Brazil? Even in a Swedish account you can get 4.5% annually at the moment and considering the interest rates in Brazil there has to be banks giving more than the quoted rate at Citibank. Or are you giving the rates per month, as many Brazilian banks do? Another thing is of course what the real interest rate become at the end of the year with Brazil's inflation...
goettel
(Off to Brazil tomorrow...)
Paddy,
Don't you worry about the quality of Brazilian condoms! No need to bring your own stock.
If you have a triband cell phone you will be able to use it in Brazil as well, but otherwise they use a different frequency than we do in Europe (think it is 1800 MHz) and you have to get another one. But if you are not worried about status they have cheap Nokia 3310 and similar and I recommend to get a Tim sim-card as they allow you to send SMS to all the world, which they other providers don't. If you have any use of that service, of course.
Goettel
bring you own condoms....... your phone should work...
Member #1461
09-09-04, 23:28
Hello everyone.
Thanks for replying to my original post about living on 1000 Rais a month.
No-one has responded to the last part of my post asking about dual citizenships, the question is that I have 2 citizenships and 2 passports, from 2 different countries (one north american and one european), will I be able to juggle my stay in Brazil by alternating my entrances between them ? I mean like entering on January with passport #1 and leaving at the end of June (after the 3 months + 3 more moths extention) and Re-entering from a different border point 3-4 days later at the start of July with passport #2 and staying 6 months until December. and then doing it all over again.
Anyone ever done that ? anyone know if its doable?
Thanks,
Paul
Member #1461
who knows! maybe. You have to get a visa for the US passport and probably don't need a visa for the european one (depending on which country it is). But they do count your days across both passports. I had to switch passports at one point (I have two as well same situation), and they clearly knew how many days I'd be in the country in total. Had to get an extension from the federal police and frankly they weren't happy that I was using two. said it would cause problems for me (but seemed more of a threat than anything else)
But then again, this is Brasil and I'd take everything on a case by case basis. you might just pull it off esp. if you are arriving at different ports of entry.
Cash Works
09-10-04, 15:35
1461,
It sounds do-able, but risky. If you're staying in one city for most of the time you're in Brasil, the Federal Police may remember you as the Norte Americano who got his visa extended 6 months ago, but now you're a European. I'd say that you're breaking the law, but would probably only get fined. You'd probably be better off by leaving the country for a few days every 3 months and alternating passports when you re-enter, that way, you don't have to deal with the policia federal in whatever city you wind up living in. To be even safer, change cities every 3 months as well - less chance somebody will ask how you managed to stay in Brasil on a tourist visa for a whole year.
CW
Member #3427
09-14-04, 17:27
John,
Thank you for the very useful info on where a decent and affordable doctor is. Besides that, how has your stay in Rio been? I ma considering the same thing as you. Starting out for 6-8 weeks to begin with...learn a bit more, travel a bit, learn the language better and then reassess for future and longer stays.
One thing I have not been able to lovate anywhere is how to find a roommate (i.e. share a nice 2 bed apartment in rio or Ipanema. I figure one can save a considerable amount by doing that and live in a nicer place than getting a one bedroom so-so place.
Have you come across any type of rommate finder or anything of the sort where a person can find a nice apartment to share?
Thanks for any info you have.
The Chacal
Stranger Man
09-15-04, 11:19
I wonder if anyone out there know of any discount airfare web sites from Brazil to Europe. Many thanks in advance.
A good language site for basic portuguese is available at triple
w sonia hyphen portuguese dot com.
Paddy
Chacal,
I have not looked for any room mate situation here because I had company with me and I rented a two bed room in Ipanema for about US$1,200 per month from www.rentaflat.com.br, a rental agency in Copacabana. I am sorry I can't be of any help in regards to room mate. As per my visit in Brazil man I have had the best time of my life. Although, I have not been able to post any pictures due to personal reasons but believe me when I say this that I will never forget my time here in Brazil. I had the visa for 90 days and when I leave tomorrow from Rio I would have stayed here for exactly 88 days.
Moreover, me and my freinds are coming back here in February for the Carnival. I think I will have a blast then again. I have not left this country yet but believe me I am already missing it. I just loved Brazil and it's many cities like Natal, Fortaleza, Buzios and most of all Rio De Janeiro.
Jonny Hit Run
10-03-04, 04:46
I have a barely legible visa stamp in my passport which has caused me consistant delays at immigration upon entering Brazil. I have visited four times since the date of issue Feb-03. I have plans to go three more times between now and Carnaval. The stamp on the visa although hard to read is for five years(tourist.)
In an efffort to rectify this problem I e-mailed the Brazilian consulate as well as various visa services here in California with thoughts of applying for a new visa. More than one party has indicated to me that the Brazilian consulate may look disfavorably upon the frequency and short duration of the visits and elect not to reissue a five year visa.
You think this hobbying thing pisses them off? I come home broke after every visit they should welcome tourists who come and spend money shouldn't they?
Any input as always is appreciated. Thanks.
Photo 55,
You're American, right? Then they always now how many days you have stayed in the country as you have a visa in your passport. As a citizen of one of the Schengen states in Europe I don't need a visa stamped in my passport and have now been in Brazil for 8 months during the last year. This is no problem when switching passports back in Europe or making an emergency one in Brazil before going out, if overstayed. As long as one arrives by plane from Europe the PF should not bother anyone not being involved in any illegalities (except for overstaying, of course).
Goettel
Sunset Strip
10-05-04, 19:05
I am not sure why somebody would say that the consulate will not give you a five year tourist visa. The frequency of your visits should not matter at all. I mean, many people visit Brazil only once in their lives, for example college students. I am sure that consulates do not withold visas because these students are only going for one summer.
Most likely, you have been to Brazil and spent more money than the average person ever will.
If you have not broken any laws while in Brazil then do not worry about getting another visa, especially sine you have to pay for it!
TJ
Hey Guys
Un here, I'm going to Brazil in Jan. to see an internet freebie. She seems cool. I will be near Barra, and I will stay about a month. Any advice on me going? Anything will be helpful, since this will be my first time in Rio.
Any other "brothas" that have been to brazil, please let a fellow "brotha" know whats up?
Thanks guys
-Un
Next year I am moving to Salvador de Bahia, I am from Europe. I found a nice woman there (Thank you Bill Gates because of MSN) and after several vacations with her in Brasil and in my home country I decided that I want to live with her in Brasil. I heard that if you are living 2 years together with a Brasilian woman it is the same for the law as a marrriage in Brasil. This means that suppose we decide to stop the relation after this period we have to split everything. Because she has only debts and I am reasonable wealthy and just splitted everything because of divorce in my home country it is not such a nice prospect. Can anybody advice me if it possible to make a kind of arrangement to prevent me from this.
Thanks in advance.
Fartknocker
10-10-04, 03:36
S Jonnie,
You need some serious professional advice. Get a lawyer in Brazil who can answer these questions for you, and work with him to protect your assets. Do not trust advice from a bunch of internet *****mongers when your personal fortune is on the line.
I adore Brazilian women, but I do not trust them worth a damn. I would never let my namorada find out how much money I have, and I would take great pains to make sure she could never lay a finger on my stack. The day you make it financially beneficial for a Brazilian to screw you over is the day you get screwed over.
S Jonnie,
There is a saying:
Their are 2 parts to being wealthy. The first part is to make wealth, that is the easy part. The second part is to keep your wealth, that is the most difficult part.
I would consult a Brazilian lawyer only to find out about what the laws are in regards to de facto marriages. Then I would get a European lawyer to bury the assets deep in various trust structures and hide them in Europe. It would not be wise to move any thing more than a small portion of your assets to Brazil, the country is way to unstable.
Make sure you get 2 lawyers, one for you and one for her.. Give her the money to pay for her own lawyer.. You don't want a problem later on with a conflict of interest issue arising.
I heard that a guy in Brazil hired a full time, live in maid and the Bit_h filed for support after 2 years claiming they lived as husband and wife during that time..
Fartknocker
10-10-04, 19:35
"I heard that a guy in Brazil hired a full time, live in maid and the Bit_h filed for support after 2 years claiming they lived as husband and wife during that time.."
It wouldn't suprise me if her claim was basically valid. A lot of Brazilian men fuck their maids. Hell, when I owned my bar in Brazil, I fucked my waitresses all the time. Both my roomate and I fucked the girl who cleaned our apartment for us, too. Sex between employee/employer is far more common in Brazil than in the US, and nobody thinks a thing of it.
However, if you have a maid:
1. Who is living with you
2. Who you are fucking
3. Who you are paying under the table (no registration), or not paying at all . . .
well, then, your dumb ass gets what it deserves. She really IS your live-in girlfriend for all intents and purposes, and the law will see it that way.
Personally, I wouldn't have a live-in maid or girlfriend in Brazil. Ass is so easy to come by that you will never be faithful. Having a woman around full-time is bound to cramp your style and complicate your life.
I'm a bit concerned with you guys talking about how living with a girl friend in Brasil for a while she can be by law considered like your wife and basically and technically can wipe you of everything you have...
As Fartnocker mentioned, it is best and logical to make sure that the girl-friend in Brasil or any garotas there does not find out about your assets and or wealth in your respective country for all the obvious reasons. A bit challenging when you have a relationship with a non-pro girl but hey, use some Brasilian jeito to your advantage, that is lying to protect your ass and interests.
Use common sense people.
Btw, to those who wrote they met some Brasilian garotas on the net, which are the best sites to meet regular Brasilian girls to get to know and then, visit once you go there to have some fun with them? ;)
Thanks.
Valeu.
Fartknocker
10-11-04, 23:46
The legal problems of having a Brazilian live-in are really your least concern. Look back through the pages of this forum for the story about the Swiss retiree who was thrown off his 7 story balcony by his Brazilian girlfriend so she could get her hands on $16,000 USD he had stashed. Letting someone live with you gives them access not only to your material goods, but also to your person. That is a lot of trust to be giving to someone who may be setting you up.
I was wondering does anyone know the requirements to get the Brazilian residency. How much money do you need to invest or is there some way to get it without getting married or investing.
Fartknocker
10-12-04, 19:26
Grobo,
All this has been covered extensively. Do a search for "visa" on this forum thread. In short, you have the following ways to get a permanant resident visa:
1. Get married to a Brazilian girl.
2. Invest $200,000 USD in Brazil (must be deposited in a Brazilian bank)
3. Get a job with a company in Brazil that will sponsor you on a work visa.
4. Be of retirement age with an income of at least $2,000 USD deposited every month in Brazilian bank. (on which you will pay taxes).
5. Be a member of the clergy of a church already established Brazil.
6. Have a Brazilian citizen or permanant resident for a relative.
Numbers 5 and 6 are easy, but few qualify. Numbers 2 through 4 are a pain in the ass. Number 1 is dead fucking easy as long as you have money and a pulse.
Good news for everyone contemplating moving for good to Brasil. The Imigration Board of Brasil have reduced the requirements to permanent residency in Brasil from 200USK to 50$K. A person can also apply for permanent residency even tough they may not have the 50KUS$ as long as they guarantee to create 10 jobs for 10 Brasilians. This is brillant news! Finally something that will boost the Brasilian economy!
Here's the full article in Portuguese. :)
http://www.estadao.com.br/economia/noticias/2004/out/06/206.htm
Entrada de pequeno investidor no País está mais fácil
Brasília - O Conselho Nacional de Imigração acaba de aprovar resolução que reduz de US$ 200.000 para US$ 50.000 o volume de recursos que o investidor estrangeiro-pessoa física precisa trazer ao Brasil para se fixar no País.
De acordo com o presidente do Conselho, Nilton Freitas, a redução do valor vai incentivar a geração de emprego e renda no País, além de atrair mais estrangeiros.
Freitas contou que o Conselho vinha sofrendo uma demanda forte por parte das embaixadas e do Ministério do Turismo para reduzir o valor do investimento. Ele explicou que a nova resolução dá também ao Conselho o poder de aprovar o pedido do estrangeiro que não disponha dos US$ 50.000 para investir no País.
Nesse caso, o estrangeiro deverá se comprometer a gerar pelo menos dez empregos no período de cinco anos para *** o pedido de fixação no País aprovado.
Cheers.:)
Cash Works
10-13-04, 02:28
Fartknocker & Grobo,
It may have changed, but 15-20 years ago, marriage alone was not sufficient, it helped, but did not guarantee a visa. You had to have at least one child together and there were apparently still some hoops to jump through. It allegedly became easier with a second or third child.
CW
Fartknocker
10-13-04, 19:09
Jacaré,
That is interesting news. By that definition, I already qualify for a permanant resident visa. My bar in Brazil employs over 10 people.
I'd be willing to be there is a catch, though. The jobs probably have to registered jobs. Once you register a worker, you have to pay an insane amount of payroll taxes and give him all sorts of expensive benefits. That's why out of 14 workers we have about 2 who are actually registered, and the rest are "part time" or "temporary" workers.
The $50k threshold is nice, though. Coming up with $200,000 would be pretty difficult for most would-be expatriots.
Fartnocker,
It is indeed very interesting news.
I'm also aware of that there must be some catch somewhere in this. What are some of the benefits one has to provide to a registered Brasilian worker? I presume we're talking about some kind of retirement benefit, medical benefits, vacation, 13th month salary. What else? And speaking of taxes, what is the tax rate there for businesses and business owners ? Is it progressive or regressive? Any tax advantages for business owners there?
Was it easy for you to open your bar in Brasil? How long did it take you to register it with the Brasilian government? Is your bar in Buzios as per one of your old post stating you had spent a few months there?I'm also looking into opening a business, probably a bar-resto in Brasil within the next 3-5 years. What are the steps to do that over there?
Thanks for any feedback you or others could provide on these matters. :)
Jacaré.
Rabo Verde
10-14-04, 02:00
FARTKNOCKER: Tell us a little about your bar.
Yeah, tell us where it is, so we can patronize your place.
Guys, those new immigration rules are still under discussion. None of that is law yet. And it may only apply to certain nationalities.
Things move slowly in Brazil. Once the government passes it as law, then the department has to set up the new process for applications. If it does go ahead, maybe the new rules will be in force sometime next year.
Fartknocker
10-14-04, 04:54
Sorry. I'm not going to give out any direct info on the location,name, or other details of the bar. A clever person could figure out who I am with a minimum of legwork. I might as well post my real name and address here in the forum for all to see, and that could potentially cause a lot of trouble for me.
I bought a half-interest in what is basically a fairly big street bar. My Brazilian partner was a friend of mine and talked me into it. Turns out this guy is a control freak, a real pain-in-the-ass to work with, and nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is . . . but I am repeating myself. I already said he was Brazilian, didn't I?
I spent several months helping to run the place, which was quite a bit of fun. The problem is that the damn thing doesn't make any money, and probably never will. The fundamental business concept is flawed, in my opinion, and it doesn't help that my partner runs the place on the "resident genius" theory of managment. He can't see the problems with the place because his enormous fucking ego gets in the way. His opinion is that if everybody would just do everything HIS way, the place would be rolling in cash.
So anyway, I left Brazil, came back to the States, and got a job. The bar is still open, and still not making a dime. Sometime after Christmas I am going to go back down to Brazil and kick my partner's ass until he puts the place up for sale, or buys out my part of the business. I can't afford to have so much money tied up in a non-producing investment.
On the plus side, running a bar in Brazil is a blast. Brazilians of all ages go to bars much more than Americans do. It is a very cool social environment that doesn't really have a parallel back here in the US. Being the owner of a nice bar give you a BIG status upgrade (and we all know how fixated on status these people are). It is a great way to meet women, and if you don't hook up with any customers, it is usually dead simple to take one of your waitresses home. (yeah, I'm really that shameless)
Best of all there's nothing better than popping the top on a cold one right in the middle of work, because YOU are the boss, and its YOUR place, and you can drink a damn beer if you want to. One day once I have an income stream coming in to support myself, I'll probably head back down and open a new bar (without a partner). It really is that much fun.
Fartknocker
10-14-04, 05:24
Jacaré,
Ah, Brazilian employment law! It is a socialist's wet dream! Just to give you an idea, here are some of the major costs involved in registering a worker:
-- Employers pay payroll taxes around 100% of the salary paid (compare that to the 9% paid by US companies)
-- Minimum salaries are specified for various levels of employment.
-- Mandatory salary increases are required if the worker has a child during their period of employment.
-- A madatory 13th monthly salary is to be paid at Christmas.
-- The employer must provide four (4) weeks of paid vacation after one year of full employment.
-- The employer must provide food for the employee. They have to give them food (if it is a restaurant), money, a voucher, or a "caixa basica" (food basket).
-- The employer must provide transportation for the employee to and from work. (Usually just bus fare).
-- In case of termination of employment, even with cause, the employee can usually go to court and recieve severance pay proportional to the length of time employed.
These are the major items. There are many smaller nuisance laws that make running a business in Brazil such a pain in the ass. What we did is hire the waiters as "daily" employees. We paid them R$10 per day, plus commission. As daily employees, they are like temps -- they don't recieve the mandatory benefits. The problem with this strategy is that if you go ahead and work someone 5 days a week for an extended period of time, he can go to court, have himself declared a de-facto full-time employee, and demand compensation for all the benefits he should have recieved all the way back to his date of hire.
There are many, many other ways to dodge the laws, but like the "daily labor" dodge, they all can come back and bite you on the ass if you aren't careful.
My understanding is that starting a bar or restaurant from scratch is a real headache. You have a ton of paperwork, inspections, fees, and soforth that have to be taken care of through the local government first. I'm told the process can often take 6 months. It is much easier to purchase an existing establishment that is already properly licensed. That is the route we took. We bought a little street bar with basically no seating, and expanded it out into an unused parking lot until it was about a 120 seat bar/restaurant. We added live music, a full menu, awnings, decoration, a wait staff, televisions, etc. It really has become a fairly popular place.
The problem with the concept is that the place is a low-end bar with mid-end overhead. We have all the bills that a normal bar has, but since we are a "street bar," we can't charge inside bar prices without pissing off the customers. My partner runs the place for the glorification of his own ego and really doesn't care if the thing makes money. If it lets him strut around and be the big man, fuck a lot of chicks, and break even monetarily, then he's happy.
Good luck on your own bar. You will find very quickly that you need a lot of help from a trustworthy Brazilian. It is doubtful you will ever be able to figure out all the laws and regulations, and certain that you will never be able to comply with all of them. You need someone who knows the "jeitinho" to get around the laws, otherwise you will get fucked.
Now, about finding that "trustworthy Brazilian" . . . I can't really help you there. If you figure that part out, be sure to let me know how.
Fartknocker,
I think you should turn your bar into a Terma and be done with it, now that would be interestering to run.
Leif Erickson
10-14-04, 20:36
Fartknocker,
What's involved in applying for a permanent residence visa in Brazil? The tourist visa is OK, but I don't want to have to keep applying for extensions on the 90 days. Thanks. Your posts are real eye-openers!
Lief
Leif Erickson
10-14-04, 20:49
Fartknocker,
I can relate to your situation. I was part owner of a bar in Bangkok. Which was a lot of fun at first, but then after a while I wanted to kill my partner, and then kill myself I was so depressed. I hired a thug to put the fear of G_d into my partner, and luckily for me he agreed to buy me out. I escaped with most of my sanity intact! I disregarded one of the rules of starting a business. Never go into business with a "friend". It's a nightmare.
Later
Lief
Leif Erickson
10-14-04, 21:02
Fartknocker,
Disregard my post regarding a permanent residency Visa for Brazil. If I went through the process; I would be ready for the rubber room. Take care.
Lief
Thanks for your informative post. However, some things are still left unclear such as:
100% paid vacation on top of the 13th month? Plus food and transportation? Are you serious?
About your waitresses/waiters, I assume you hired them on a very short term basis to avoid them declaring themselves de facto a full time employee? Usually, how long did you keep each employee? 1 month before looking for someone else?
What kind of budget one should be looking at to buy say an already established bar-restaurant in a middle sized city such as say Vitoria, Porto Seguro, Floripa or in big cities like Salvador, Recife or Fortaleza?
I have a Brasilian friend who tells me all the time that owning a bar/restaurant with live music is the way to live like a true king in Brasil ===) easy money + loads of women = great live style. :)
Your prevous post confirmed that, at least the latter part of it...
Did you encounter a lot of red tape and other similar BS to expand your bar or it went smoothly as it was already esablished with all the required licences?
Thanks.
Valeu.:)
Fartknocker
10-15-04, 19:16
Jacaré,
Yes, you have to give them a 13th salary, AND 4 weeks of paid vacation once they have worked for you a year. To be honest, the worst of the bunch is the severance pay. If you have someone work for you for several years, and then you decide to let them go, it can cost you a freaking fortune -- many months pay.
As far as the Brazilian government is concerned, your business exists to pay taxes and provide jobs for these fucks.
Getting away with paying your employees as "daily" workers has more to do with how much they work per week rather than how long they work for you. If you only work them 4 days per week or less, you are usually safe. There are some added rules that come along with hiring them like this. For one thing, you MUST pay them at the end of the shift -- no "check at the end of the month" stuff.
In any case, most of our wait staff turned over every few months. Waiters would leave when summer hit to go work on the beach. We would catch them stealing and fire them. We would get tired of them showing up late all the time and doing shitty work and fire them, etc.
When I first went down there, I was shocked at the way my partner treated the employees. When I said something about it to him, his reply was "Why do care anything about these fucking people? They don't give a shit about you!" After a few months, I started to agree with him. They steal, they lie, they're constantly late, they do a shitty job, etc. They may smile to your face, but they will fuck you over in a second if given half a chance .
If you think minimum wage workers are a pain in the ass here in the US, wait till you see what Brazilian business owners have to work with.
The value of a business is HIGHLY variable. I think we only paid about R$25K for the original hole-in-the-wall bar. Improvements and expansions doubled that figure to about R$50K. All the advertising, promoting, and business startup losses have pushed us well over R$100K.
The improvements and expansions were pretty easy to arrange -- I don't remember filing any permits. The major issue was with the busines located beside us. The owner was an asshole and didn't want us expanding. Of course, we didn't have any problems with the guy until he and my partner got into it -- Clash of the Titain Egos, if you know what I mean.
The profitability of the business will ultimately decide how much the business is worth. Quite frankly, though, I can't see anyone selling a business that makes fantastic money. Any place you buy will likely have some issue that needs to be dealt with. The tough part is figuring it what the problem is before the money changes hands. Never pay for 100% of the business up front. Give them maybe 50% and pay the owner the rest over time. If it turns out that the owner was hiding something, you have a little leverage if you haven't paid him all the money. Owner financing arangements are very common in Brazil due to the insane rates of interest that banks charge.
I think your Brazilian friend is out of his mind if he thinks running a bar is "easy money." It IS a lot of fun and you DO get a lot of chicks, but there are a lot of headaches, and it is really easy to hit the end of the month and find that you dn't have enough money in the safe to pay all of the bills. Running a business that is losing money is DEPRESSING! Especially when you are putting in 60+ hours per week trying to make it work. I don't know how many times I went into work in the late afternoon, and came home with the sun coming up and roosters crowing. To think I did that and haven't seen a single dollar in profit makes me wonder why I ever did it.
. . . and then I think of all the pussy I got, and I remember why. ;-)
Rabo Verde
10-15-04, 20:15
Better to earn your bread in the USA and SPEND it in Brazil!
Fartknocker
10-16-04, 04:23
Chuponalgas,
I think you are right. I miss my bar and the good times I had, but the financial situation was making me lose my mind. If I ever have a bar in Brazil again, it will be as a toy for a retired man, not as an investment. IMO, it is better to invest your cash in the US in something that has a nice cash flow (like rental property), and then spend your time in Brazil relaxing.
Leif Erickson
10-16-04, 17:24
Fartknocker,
The taxes on income in Brazil sound oppressive! Is the 25% tax on money you deposit into a bank taxed yearly or monthly?
Thanks. I was thinking of starting a business in Brazil, but after reading your posts-I am definately NOT!
Leif
Does someone here know weather a foreigner can buy Brazilian Treasury Bonds in Reais ? in Bovespa official website I can get no sign of official quotations of these items, can someone here give me the URL of a site showing such quotations ? Thanks in advance for whatever help you can give me.
HotTraveler
12-14-04, 12:35
I would wish to move to Brazil and to live there.
I want to put my money in some brazilian bank who gives me a good interest rate.
Someone has experience about this theme?
Which bank is better?
Greetings.
I'd put that money in a Euro/Amer. bank that has offices in Brasil. Citibank would be a great example. If you deposit 250K U.S., I think you get a Brasil passport, or a visa that's almost equivalent to citizenship. Not sure. Check out "escapeartist.com" for some basics in Brasilian real estate options. Not to sound like a jerk, but I'd do a lot more homework before making this decision.
Happy Hunting and best of luck,
JWadd
HotTraveler,
First off just wanting to move to Brazil is not enough. You must be able to get permission from the Brazilian Government to live in Brazil. You need a residency Visa of one kind or another to stay for more than 6 months a year. Without a residency visa you will not be able to even open a bank account in Brazil.
HotTraveller
If you are over 50 years old, to get a permanent visa all you need is proof from a bank that you can get $2k a month, add $500 for each dependent.
If you are under 50, there is this new law that allows to get perm visa if you can show intent to invest 250k in Brasil. Is putting 250k in bank account enough to show intent, it might be as they give you a temporary visa while paperwork gets done.
Sorry Athos,
But you need to be over 50 years old and have a Pension that can be verified.
A bank saying you receive $2000.US a month will not work. Even if you have investment income over $2000.US a month, it will not work. IT MUST BE FROM A VERIFIABLE PENSION..
Questions on the permanent visa/residency with US$200k (hopefully soon to be changed to $50k) deposited to a Brasilian bank scenario to anyone that knows the answers please:
1. Can you have a deposit account at the Brasilian bank in US$ or Euros (for example, possibly at Citi or BankBoston), or must you convert upon deposit to Reals?
2. Is your deposit taxed in Brasil as income (as with the $2/month pension distribution scenario)?
Thanks!
HotTraveler
12-19-04, 04:03
Thanks you Iron Mike for your information!
Perhaps someday my dream can to come true.
I think in the future to sell my house and the money put in a Brazilian bank.
I can to get 170.000 US $ selling my house and if a bank give a interest rate of 14 % annual, then I´ll can to live in the paradise.
What do you think about this?
About this interesting topic about "invest $200,000 USD in Brasil" to have a permanent visa, does the purchase of an 200,000 $ ++ apartment is considered as an "investment" which could give access the visa ?
Thanks.
About this interesting topic about "invest $200,000 USD in Brasil" to have a permanent visa, does the purchase of an 200,000 $ ++ apartment is considered as an "investment" which could give access the visa ?
Thanks.
Yes, I believe so.
JW
Any large bank deposit can be turned into a trust, which should count as a pension. As for deposit in U.S. funds in Brasil -- dunno, though I'd say that where there's a will there's a way.
Remember, you don't need anything to get the first step done -- tax i.d. W/o this, you're leverage in a Brasilian court is nada. You can never forget just how amazingly corrupt and "bro-dealed" Brasil is. You could buy that house only to find out you've been stung, and that everyone's been paid off to tell you to fuck off -- lawyers (even you own), judges, realtors, cops, neighbors, etc., etc., etc.
Worst case scenario, no doubt -- but w/in the realm of possibility.
Happy Hunting,
JWadd
Sorry, but it's not a $200,000 USD investment in Brazil. It's a $200,000 USD investment in a business in Brazil. You must employ at least 5 full time people in order to qualify. Simply buying an apartment in Brazill will not work.
JWadd,
Depositing a large sum of money into a bank in the USA and turning it into a trust? How much would you have to deposit in order to recieve a $2,000.USD a month pension? A million dollars.
I thought the amount was reduced to USD$50,000. There was a topic going a few months ago about it.
Bango Cheito
12-21-04, 05:17
First off they just lowered the $200000 requirement to $50000.
Secondly it's supposed to be 'to start a business' in Brazil. You actually have to submit a business plan to the feds. However, having said that, I have heard that once you own property they usually let it slide. They really want foreign money coming into the country right now.
Thirdly, don't forget about currency fluctuation. You'd be much better off buying a house and investing the rest of the money. You could actually buy a few nice houses down there for that and have a rental income to live off of, plus live in your own place, all paid off.
I can't understand the people who give wrongful answers about how get a permanent visa. I'm from Sapin. I got a permanent residency here in Brazil. I didn't have a business plan nor did I invest 50000. On paper thats what you need but thats not how things work in Brazil. Thats why I start believing that not many people really live there who writes in this post. My residency cost me 1500 reales and there are guys who fix all the paperwork for it. Open an account in real or any currency costs you 100 to 300 reales and they get you a CEP. I must say to the people who wants to move to Brazil dont believe so much in what people write here because they are wrong. And if you wonder how to find people who do these paper work hust go to diferent asesores and ask until you find one. It shouldnt take more than one day.
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HotTraveler
01-06-05, 02:18
I believe don´t is necessary to have a pension of 2.000 US $ at month to can live in Brazil. With only 1.000 US $ is enough.
Putting a amount of 100.000 US $ at a 12 % interest annual, you get 1.000 US $ monthly.
The problem is to meet a bank who offer this interest rate.
Forget to do a investment in "renda fixa" because you´ll obtain a pittance.
The solution is to put the money in variable rent, but you run the risk to lose the capital.
Other option is the stock exchange. Also risky!
Fartknocker
01-07-05, 23:56
I think the difference between what is being said by some and what Grobo is saying is a matter of theory vs. reality.
If you do everything the legit and legal way, the requirements are steep and the process is lengthy. Frankly none of you should even be asking about the perm. resident visa requirements in this forum. If your lazy ass can't spend 5 minutes surfing the Brasilian consulate site to find the official info, then you don't deserve to have one.
If you have money and a lack of ethics (both of which are absolutely required if you really plan to move to Brazil), then these fucking imigration rules do not apply. In fact, NONE of the fucking bullshit rules the government of Brazil churns out apply to anyone who is rich and connected. As a foreigner with a first-world income, you are by definition "rich." Getting connected is just a matter of getting your head out of your ass and forgeting all that "follow the rules and play nice with others" horseshit you learned growing up in a sane country. If you have cash all you have to do is ask the right questions and the connections will find you.
There is always a way to make ANYTHING happen in Brazil. Legality is irrevelvant. Brazil runs on "jeitinho" (trans: "the little way"). For every crazy rule passed by the army of bureaucrats that rule Brazil, there is some "jeitinho" to get around it.
So if you want that visa, stop thinking like an American/European. Start thinking like a Brazilian and go get it.
Fartknocker
01-08-05, 00:38
I believe don´t is necessary to have a pension of 2.000 US $ at month to can live in Brazil. With only 1.000 US $ is enough.
Putting a amount of 100.000 US $ at a 12 % interest annual, you get 1.000 US $ monthly.
You CAN live on US$1,000 per month in Brazil, but that doesn't mean you SHOULD. The "Brazil experience" that everyone loves so much is the experience of being "rich" for once in your life. Living like a native sucks ass (which is why so many of them want to LEAVE Brazil). At R$2,700 per month (US$1,000 at current exchange rates) you can live better than the average Brazilian, but you won't be living well by 1st-world standards.
I wouldn't want to live there with anything less than US$2,000 per month -- and that's in a small town where things are relatively cheaper. In Rio or SP, I would want even more.
With only US$100,000 to invest, I wouldn't bother trying. You aren't going to make enough money on that big of a stack to live well in Brasil or anywhere else.
I think everything Fartknocker & Grobo said is true in latin America. A friend of mine just went thru the same process in Costa R. The first solicitor he saw said he needed to deposit USD$50,000 in a local bank account, and jump thru all the hoops. The second solicitor he went to said "you can do it that way if you want but you really don't want to have all the cash sitting in the bank, hence I suggest you do it another way". Anyway to cut along story short, ended up costing him USD$2000 and he had a business visa which allowed him to stay in the country for 3 years initially, was processed within 10 days. Ulitmately will lead to permanent residence if he desires.
Interestering thing about CR, 3 out of the last 4 Presidents of the country are either doing time or have done time for crimes committed while President of the Country (mainly corruption). The current President looks like going that way as well. I mention this not to get to far off topic but to illustrate that Latin America is a wild and whacky place.
thinking of buying a place up the coast and wondering if places like angra and buzios have reliable high speed internet access (perhaps via cable tv lines...?).
will be out there in a month or so but was wondering if any of u know off hand...
thanks!
rendorseg
Rendorseg,
I'll be in Buzios April 20-27th. Will let you know what I find. I need the same.
Fartknocker
04-06-05, 02:40
there are definitely high speed internet options in the area. when i was in cabo frio (about 30 minutes from buzios), i knew of a couple of small businesses that had high-speed internet. one was a law office and the other was a t-shirt manufacturer -- not real big internet-focused businesses. i doubt they were wired with their own t1 line.
in any case, there are internet cafe's all over the area. the one i used to use was about r$3 for an hour of internet use. at that price its almost hard to justify getting your own connection.
thanks guys - things are looking good!
i'll be quite curious to see also if some of the surfing town a bit south of buzios for example have high speed 'net connections..... or if for example if some of the nice but far off small beach towns might have 'net connections... to be continued....
Grobo , since you did it the Brazilian way, why not share the details with us? Who did you contact and how can others contact them as well?
If you do not want to post that kind of information on the board, PM it to me. I always heve people asking me for that kind of information. Why not let others benefit from you experience?
Currently, a savings account (conta poupanca) is paying a little over .6% per month. There are small fees/taxes (tarifas) deducted for withdrawls or deposits. No income tax (sem imposto da renda). Insured up to 20k Reals by the Central Bank. Receive an ATM card.
If you are hustling money, I would suggest depositing less than 10k Reals per transaction, per day. Anything over the amounts mentioned is reported to the Ministry of Finance. Last thing you want is the Policia Federal at your door asking questions.
If you can step up another 100k USD, you'll definately be better off.
I believe don´t is necessary to have a pension of 2.000 US $ at month to can live in Brazil. With only 1.000 US $ is enough.
Putting a amount of 100.000 US $ at a 12 % interest annual, you get 1.000 US $ monthly.
The problem is to meet a bank who offer this interest rate.
Forget to do a investment in "renda fixa" because you´ll obtain a pittance.
The solution is to put the money in variable rent, but you run the risk to lose the capital.
Other option is the stock exchange. Also risky!
Ok, sounds nice but how on earth any foreigner is able to open any bank account?
I was in Rio de Janeiro for 2 years (mar 2003 - mar 2005) and I tried several times, banks, accounts etc. and always same response:
A foreigner without a permanent visa can not open a bank account.
I'd love to know how it is possible.
Currently, a savings account (conta poupanca) is paying a little over .6% per month. There are small fees/taxes (tarifas) deducted for withdrawls or deposits. No income tax (sem imposto da renda). Insured up to 20k Reals by the Central Bank. Receive an ATM card.
If you are hustling money, I would suggest depositing less than 10k Reals per transaction, per day. Anything over the amounts mentioned is reported to the Ministry of Finance. Last thing you want is the Policia Federal at your door asking questions.
If you can step up another 100k USD, you'll definately be better off.
I had a friend here in Rio that had an account at Banco do Brasil and with a 100,000 reais deposit he was getting MUCH more than .06% a month on his money... He was getting more than .2% a month.
Fartnocker says:
"If you have money and a lack of ethics (both of which are absolutely required if you really plan to move to Brazil)..."
Come off it, man. I have no money, very strict ethics and have lived here for almost twenty years by following the laws.
In my experience, gringos who start fucking around with bribes and jeitinhos usually end up in very deep trouble somewhere down the line. Once the cops know you're the kind who can get squeezed, the squeeze never lets up. And while some half-assed despachante with a pal in the PF might be able to diddle your paperwork, then again, he might NOT. How the fuck will you know? I mean, he hands you a nice new pink Modelo 19 but YOU have no access to what's written in the PF's computer, do you? It could be that the dude just had a pal in Brasilia zap you up a permanent visa card without taking care of the paper trail.
So you go along fine for a few years, until you get involved in some routine legal hassle and your PF file is brought up. "Wait a minute! Sez here you should've left the country years ago!" Bam! A big, fat fine plus a legal battle against corruption and forgery if you're not lucky.
While there is corruption in Brazil, Brazil is not fucking Nigeria. Believe it or not, the PF does actually do their job more often than not. If you're the kind of guy who thinks "Ahn, all these Latin American pissant banana republics are the same. All you need to do is strat flapping the bribe money around," then sooner or later you're going to get your ass in a really tight spot.
Doing things legally here is slow, inconvenient and often something one needs a lawyer for. But I can tell you from long personal experience that it's generally much cheaper and safer to go the legal route in the long run.
Member #1461
04-27-05, 03:24
Hello everyone. I have a question.
I visited rio twice in recent years, and I know both from personal experience and from friends that Rio can be very very dangerous, with the Favelas being so close to all the good spots. I also heard that Sao-Paulo can be dangerous, but that can be expected of a Metropolis of that size.
I have yet never visited outside Rio and it so happens that I will have 6 free months from work coming to me between this September until the beginning of April, and I plan to spend them all In brasil.
I am not sure where in Brasil I want to spend the time exactly, I would like to settle down in just 1 place, and rent a reasonably nice apartment (for about 400-600R) in one of the state capitals (except Rio and Sampa), but I am not sure which one to choose.
The main factor that will guide my descision is safety, above all is SAFETY, I am pretty scared of spending 6 months in a place like Rio, especially since I will be renting and not living in a hotel.
Can any of you who live in Brasil and know what is the situation in the state capitals except Rio and Sao-Paulo, tell me which state capitals are the safest to live at ?
By safe I mean, there is a very low chance of being mugged at gunpoint or with a knife in broad daylight, or where there are no cases of buses being stopped and passengers robbed, and where in general there is far less crime and more specifically less violent crime.
I know that the south is considered safer then the north but I need to narrow it down to specific cities, and then choose one.
So, which state capitals should I be looking at if safety is my main concern ? what are the 3 SAFEST state capitals in Brasil in your opinion ?
Thanks.
(Oh and BTW I can speak Portugues very well, so language will not be a problem).
GabrielPontello
04-27-05, 14:49
head up to Salvador
it's cheaper than Rio and the weather is nice all year long
it's also a quieter place and there are a lot of garotas all around (especially dark skin chicks)
but, IMHO, Rio is the only place to live if you like fun
might be dangerous, as every place in the world, but it worths every second you spend there
Member #1461
04-27-05, 16:41
Thanks Gabriel.
But fun will not be the issue, I plan to fish for garotas, then bring them to live with me for a month in my apartment, and then exchange for another garota during the 6 months stay, so I will have about 6 of them during my 6 month stay. Thats just my style I prefer it better then picking a different garota every night.
I am asking only in terms of safety, not of fun, I know what to do about the fun part. Which will be the SAFEST state capitals in Brasil. I need an answer only refarding safety not fun factor.
Which are the SAFEST state capitals in Brasil ?
Thanks
Track Star
04-27-05, 17:43
Monger-friends,
Just want to offer my cents worth. I was robbed at night in Rio on my first trip there in September 2004. This because I violated a couple of Rio basic safety rules. After dark never walk anywhere in Rio. Take taxi!!! Cost very little and in the long run it is the best solution.
Second never venture into the streets beyond and behind Avenida Atlantica and Copacabana street...your entering dangerous territory.
Believe me.. don't get overconfident if you are big and muscular. It does not matter how big and muscular you are when you have three guys robbing you with one large ugly knife holding it close up to your stomach. You cannot move or go anywhere and shouldn't ..if you wanna live.
Always have some money in your pocket so if you get robbed the bandidos get something. If you have nothing they may get pissed off and stab you in anyway.
Just give them what they are after. Your life is more important than money and material things in anyway.
This is just my take on things and I think it makes sense. At least it did when I got robbed. I complied, they got my watch and some $R30. No big deal. I was unhurt and could live to tell about it. Everybody was happy.
Track Star
Was it a savings account?
I had a friend here in Rio that had an account at Banco do Brasil and with a 100,000 reais deposit he was getting MUCH more than .06% a month on his money. He was getting more than .2% a month.
Hot To Cool
04-28-05, 08:09
Thanks Gabriel.
But fun will not be the issue, I plan to fish for garotas, then bring them to live with me for a month in my apartment, and then exchange for another garota during the 6 months stay, so I will have about 6 of them during my 6 month stay. Thats just my style I prefer it better then picking a different garota every night.
I am asking only in terms of safety, not of fun, I know what to do about the fun part. Which will be the SAFEST state capitals in Brasil. I need an answer only refarding safety not fun factor.
Which are the SAFEST state capitals in Brasil ?
ThanksMember,
Vitoria in Espirito Santo takes the cake as the safest state capital in my opinion, with Curitiba, Parana as a close 2nd.
Hot To Cool
To answer you bluntly, Member, nowhere in Brazil is safe. Murder stats in Rio are actually DOWN from their all-time high in the 1980s, thoguh we do have more muggings going on now than then. Nevertheless, murder stats have continued to increase nationally due to dramatic rises in those supposedly "safe" state capitals.
Brazil is in no way a "safe" country. If that's what you are looking for, do not come here.
I would pick Fortaleza, Salvador or Porto Seguro.. PS seems the most safe, but smaller. (but remember, none are really that safe).
Sao Paulo is where I stay though, for business and for the night life, not so much girls as restaraunts, clubs, and activies. You can find everything.
I have a furnished apartment near centro area, for R$700 a month, plus phone line and cable TV.. Not the best place, but I am only there 2 weeks a month. You can actually just buy these places for like R$45K.. a bit risky for gringos as you never know if you would get ripped off or not.. but if you have a lawyer that makes it feel better.
I would not pick Rio, seems too dangerous and not as much to do as SP.
Member #4732
05-03-05, 06:28
Is it easy to buy real estate - apartment? I assume you do not have to be a citizen. If you are buying for personal use, but intend to sublet as well are there complications?
Rovnak,
Yes you can buy apartments in Brazil as a tourist. All you need is THE CASH. You can not get a mortgage in Brazil. Then you need a CPF number (like our Social Security #). You do not need a lawyer but I would recommend that you DO use one. They do not have title insurance here in Brazil so you need someone that you trust to do a through title search……. You can then rent use it and rent it. Be careful to read the condo rules and especially see if they have any restrictions on the owners renting the apts out to other people. I had an owner in Ipanema that got screwed by the condo association and we were not able to rent his unit for him.
Member #1461 ….
That sounds like a terrible idea.. Boy are you leaving yourself open to a world of shit…. If not some physical damage… remember a guy named “John Wayne Bobbit “and his lovely, jealous wife Elaine??
Amerioca…
It was sort of a savings account if I remember correctly……
Apartments:
Once you've bought the apartment, there would be complications to subletting as well.
You need to have a manager you trust (not always easy to find in Brazil). You also need to be careful about clients trashing your apartment or stealing things from it.
You would be surprised at the abusive crap people will try if they think they can get away with it. So many people in Brazil wouldn't think twice about ripping off a relative stranger if there was a quick 20 reais to be made.
Safe Cities:
Never been to Vitoria, ES, but its claim to fame was for being the *least* safe capital city in all of Brazil. That was based on statistics, assault and murder rates etc.
As a general rule it's safer in the very south of the country.
Member #1461
05-09-05, 16:41
Kenn, you misunderstood me.
These garotas will be paid, all I was saying is that instead of paying a different one every night I will pay them for 3-4 weeks instead of a night. I didnt mean I will change a different namorada every month but a different garota de programa every month instead of daily, the advantage is that on the whole it will be cheaper because I will negotiate a long term payment agreement plus I will choose the better ones. I will make it very clear to them on a daily basis that this is a paid short time relationship and not an emotional romance. There will be no doubt in their mind they are my escorts not my girlfriends.
Macunaima,
I know Brasil is a dangerous place, but there are different levels of dangers in different regions of the country, all I am trying to do is find which is the safest capital. knowing full well that by European or American standards even the safest place in brasil is dangerous.
Cachorro,
If ES has the highest statistics for murder and assult etc. could you direct me to a web site with these statistics ? where can I find a website with these full statistics about major cities in brasil, so I can look there and find which capital has the lowest rates of assult and murder?
I still need to find the safest state capital in Brasil
Thanks.
Member #1461 .... I did not misunderstand you at all... I have lived in Brazil for over 4 years and I think I have a better understanding of the working women than you. Don't you think that Program Girls get possessive? If you think they will just leave your apartment after a month, kiss you on your cheek never to heard from again, boy you really don't know anything about Brazilian women. I think you are leaving yourself open to a world of problems.
Member #1461
05-10-05, 17:58
Kenn,
Its true I dont have your experience with Brasilian women, Ive only been to brasil on short vacations and had really a few short time relationships while there, nothing over a couple of days.
Could you tell me then, based on your experience, what would be the longest time I can keep a garota on pay without it turning nasty ? Is it doable for a week ? 2 weeks ?
I tought I was being smart picking a good one and keeping her on a payroll for a month and then switching rather then going to the daily trouble of finding a new one.
Member 1461,
Kenn is right ... I know you think it will be just a longer transaction, but in 3 - 4 weeks these girls become very attached. They will become comfortable in this new routine and their heads will start think it could be like this forever.
Concerning finding the safest state capital in Brasil... I lived in Rio & SP without any problems.... Belo horizonte seemed pretty cool .. check out curitiba that might work.. Just curios why it has to be a state capital ?
there are tons of smaller brazilian towns close to a bigger city that are really cool and definetly a lot cheaper.
Btw, my six month stay in Brazil turned into a 1 year stay... so hard to leave.
Good luck
HotTraveler
05-10-05, 22:21
I would wish to know the way to get the document called CPF in Brazil.
I´m spanish and I think those document is important if you want to live in Brazil.
Thanks you for the information.
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Exec Talent
05-11-05, 02:56
I literally have dated women from all over the world. Brazilian women take jealousy to new levels. I also should mention that they also take love and devotion to new levels. I have been in wonderful relationships and thought I had been loved before, but there is nothing to compare to the love of a Brazilian woman. My girlfriend although educated, bright and spirited was almost child-like in her utter devotion me. Asian women are not so much devoted as subservient.
If you seriously think you are going to come to Rio and "employ" a girlfriend for a month, I would think again. I am sure I speak for many here who have had Brazilian women get attached after a night. Often it is not about money, many just aren't used to be treated well.
I have spent a total of 5 weeks in Brasil this year in one city, Londrina.
I'm going back on Sunday for another 3 weeks.
I find Londrina pleasant and safe. My GF suggests we move to Curitiba because it is also a good, clean, safe city and close to the coast since I like the ocean.
I have also read Curitiba is one of Brasil's most modern cities. Check it out.
Curitiba IS nice, but kinda boring.
i would also concur with the assessment of Brazilian women. they are very jealous and possessive. 3-4 weeks for them to get attached khunjbl? make that 3-4 days!!! or less!!. and they're equally as passionate when they're enraged or feel they have been wronged. just this past week a garota gave her lover a poisoned pizza, and another stabbed and killed her husband. :(
kenn's right: you're gonna be in a world of trouble if you employ this tactic.
Member #1461
If I were you, I would just follow the normal mongering rule.
It's ok to sleep with the same girl 4 or 5 times, just never in a row.
Some of them can be like leaches. Once that attach themselves to you, you may have to spill some of your blood to get rid of them. They can smell an easy touch miles away. If they think they can latch onto an easy mark they will fight to keep the money coming in. Because what you pay them for a month would most likely be 3-4 months income to a Brazilian.
Banco do Brasil.
I would wish to know the way to get the document called CPF in Brazil.
I'm spanish and I think those document is important if you want to live in Brazil.
Thanks you for the information.
[Email Address deleted by Admin]
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Cash Works
05-11-05, 14:19
1461,
I hope you listen to what folks are trying to tell you here. I have my own stories about keeping women for extended periods and most are not pretty when the time is up.
I have to say that this possessive behavior is not limited to Brasil though - I've experienced it all over the world - Brasil (My first problematic professional breakup - OK, spent about 6 months over a 2 year period with her - told her on a regular basis that I wasn't interested in getting married, didn't matter), Thailand (rented her for one week from a massage parlor), Nigeria (only spent one night with the psycho beyatch - she harassed me and my friends for the rest of the week), Kazakhstan (spent about 2 hours with her), even Amsterdam (RLD Window chick - spent about 45 minutes with this one).
I think the problem is that most of the women who get into this business have very active fantasy lives. Their primary fantasies tend to be about meeting their husband on the job - some actually do, most don't - when they manage to latch on to somebody who's not too terrible, they easily convince themselves that "he's the one, I can't lose him".
If a girl stays with you for more than one day & she starts cleaning your apartment or offers to cook you a meal - WATCH OUT! TIME TO DUMP HER! She's showing off her domestic talents in hope that you'll be convinced of her matrimonial ability.
If you're intent on keeping a girl for an extended period, you would be smart to move to another city (tell her you're leaving the country or have to go back to work) when you feel it's time for a change.
CW
Track Star
05-11-05, 15:48
Cash Works,
Thank you for great insight. I had this situation on my last trip to rio now in March.
I met this Manaus garota in September. Did her for three nights and the stupid fucker I am I kept in contact with her via email and letter.
Met her again in March and had her for three days. I had told her that I would be there March 25, but she did not show up before three days later so I know she had been fucking a client (probably some italian). And these girls will always make up small lies etc. She said she had been looking for me at the beach. I had told her several times to meet me at Meia Petaca. This was no big deal to me as I had gotten pussy every night in the meantime. No issue.
I was not mad because I had been picking up girls at HELP in the meantime. I was not going to Rio to sit spinning my thumbs in my lap..I was there for sex and sex and more sex.
When she found out I had had other women she become unpleasant the rest of the period I was with her telling me that I did not love her etc.
I explained to her I never said I loved her but I liked her very much. You don't love a GP, but you can like her..okay.
It all ended with that I kicked her out after three days when she proceeded to tell me that she did not need to stay with me and that she just stayed with me because she liked me and that she had gotten the phone number to some friggin italian Gianluca fucker and he would pay her more etc. All manipulation and head games.
So as you guys can see it can get ugly. I then proceeded to kick her out. The only way to go is the Multi Mulher/Multi garota program..a new girl every night. It keeps thing interesting too. Keeps the hunter mentality alive. FFF..find them, fuck them and forget them.
Track Star
Member #1461
05-11-05, 16:41
OK, I think the overwhelming response against the idea of paying a garota de programa for a month stay convinces me its a bad idea.
I kind of thought it was a smart idea at start, because I will pay less for 1 girl for a month stay then 30Xdifferent girls every night. Plus I would pick the best one I could find rather then having to face the uncertain levels of "talent" with different girls I pick on different nights.
But I wont do it, not with everyone telling me its such a bad idea. Youve convinced me, I would be a fool to go ahead with it when not even one response supports it.
I will just do it the "normal" way. a different girl every night.
Concerning the city, at this point in time I believe I will probably go to Curitiba. It seems to have the most positive feedback from most replies as being relatively safe and modern compared to the other capitals (although macunaima says its boring, but im a pretty boring person so ill probably fit it perfectly).
Thanks for your replies everyone.
You can also apply at a Brasilian Consulate or through the mail. Check it out at:
http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/Aplicacoes/ATCTA/CpfEstrangeiro/cpfingles.htm
I would wish to know the way to get the document called CPF in Brazil.
I´m spanish and I think those document is important if you want to live in Brazil.
Thanks you for the information.
[Email Address deleted by Admin]
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending removal of email addresses in the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system to exchange this information. Thanks!
Fartknocker
05-13-05, 03:32
What everyone else is saying about Brasileiras getting attached is absolutely correct. The common misperception about Brazilian girls from sex-crazy gringos is that they are "sluts" who just love to fuck any ol' guy who comes along. What I've discovered, though, is that mostly they aren't "sluts" -- girls who just love no-strings-attached sex. Brazilian girls are just like girls anywhere else except that their love lives are on an EXTREMELY accelerated pace.
When I first started dating Brazilian girls, I thought it was so cool that I could get them into the sack after the first or second date. What I didn't count on was the fact that after a week or two of this, the girl considered herself my girlfriend, and after a month she was asking where things were heading and when we were moving in together. With an American girl, you usually take longer to slide into "home plate," but on the other hand you can usually fuck and around and keep things casual for a month or two before you have to start having those "serious" talks. Talks about cohabitation and marriage with an American chick usually take six months or more.
So basically, Brazilian girls move at about a 6 to 1 pace vs. American chicks, but don't let that fool you. They are both after the same thing -- marriage and family.
Brazilian *****s are the same as any other Brazilian girls, and they have the same dreams. Most of these girls wouldn't be prostitutes if they lived in a first-world country and had reasonable economic prospects. None of them see themselves spending the rest of their lives screwing strangers for chump change. They want to get married and make babies just like good little Catholic girls are supposed to do.
So if you stay with a Brazilian working girl for a month, you should remember the "6 to 1" rule. Its just like spending six months living with an American girl. If she likes you at all, you're going to have a hard time getting rid of her.
Fartknocker
05-13-05, 04:16
In my last post, I talked about Brazilian girls and their propensity for falling in love almost immediately. Now I'll say a couple of words about how you can use this to your advantage.
First of all, if you are a nice guy and all you want is sex (presumably from non-pro girl) you need to communicate this through your actions. If your non-verbal communication is not in line with your verbal communication, she's going to go with what she sees you doing, not with what your are saying.
If you follow standard American dating practice with a Brasileira you are fucked from the start. Don't pick her up at her place with flowers in hand. Don't take her out for an evening of dining and dancing, invite her back to your place, and then spend the next day with her at the beach. If you approach it this way you are communicating to her that you want to be her boyfriend -- her "namorado." If a Brazilian guy just wants to fuck a girl with no strings attached he doesn't go about it this way.
If you just want to "stay with her" ("fica com ela") -- which means no-strings-attached -- you tell her you are going to some club or bar and that she should meet you there. You chat, you flirt, you dance a bit, and afterwards you take her to a love motel and shag her rotten. Then you GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM HER. Don't spend the night with her, and definitely don't spend the next day with her. Get her number, but don't call her until you are ready for a repeat performance at least a week later.
I know this seems cold to a lot of you Romeos, but I'm telling you that an American "Mr. Nice Guy" approach signals a level of interest to a Brazilian girl that an American girl would not assume. But hey, if you want some crazy Brasileira stalking you, just keep doing it like you do back home.
Now for you not-so-nice guys. Brazilian girls are incredibly easy to play if you a prepared to be a major, cold-hearted bastard. If you romance a Brazilian girl, fuck her regularly (particulary if you are doing it without a condom), keep her overnight and spend a lot of time with her, she will effectively consider herself your girlfriend after a couple of weeks. At this point you will not only be getting regular sex (sometimes more regular than you even want), but you will probably get free maid service and the occasional homecooked meal. Virtually all of my Brazilian gf's have cooked and cleaned for me without the slightest prompting on my part.
So now that you have your steady, its time to do what all good rich Brazilian guys do -- fuck every other garota you can get your cock into. As your steady becomes more attached and more jealous of your time, your philandering will eventually be noticed. Expect a blow-out fight of nuclear proportions, an ocean of tears, and a prompt and "final" breakup.
At this point you go looking for your next victim -- probably one of the other chicks you've been fucking around with. Chick #1 moves out, and Chick #2 moves right on in. If your timing is good the dishes in the sink won't even have piled up that much by the time #2 starts rendering her domestics services.
The truly fucked up part about this is that #1 will usually come crawling back after pouting for a few weeks. By that time you already publicly have another "girlfriend," so she becomes your second woman. She'll whine and ***** about it, but she'll still fuck you and hang around hoping to slide back into pole position. So after a couple of rounds of this you'll have three sources of ass -- the current "girlfriend," the ex-girlfriend (or ex-girlfriends), and the casual ass you are nailing on the side.
I don't pretend to be a master at this kind of play, but I learned at the feet of THE Master. My friend/business partner in Brazil is the biggest godamn player I have ever seen in my life, and what I am describing above is EXACTLY how he runs the scam. He is over 40, completely gray-haired, pot-bellied, and arrogant as hell. In the space of six months he had six of these "girlfriends" -- one right after the other. He always had the "girlfriend," the "ex" and at least two or three others he was doing at any given time. Every chick he was screwing was at least cute, and not one was over 25 years old.
He had three things going for him:
1. He's "rich" compared to his girlfriends and he doesn't mind flaunting it. Every lower-class Brazilian girl dreams of marrying rich. It really is their only means of social advancement.
2. He's completely shameless when wooing a girlfriend. He'll tell them he loves them, he'll take care of them, etc. -- whatever they want to hear.
3. He is absolutely the most cold-hearted sonofabitch when it comes to the breakup. He gives them the "pe na bunda" ("kick in the ass") with no remorse and makes them feel like it is their fault that things didn't work out.
So there you have it. Playing the game Brazilian-style.
Hi Fartknocker.
Read your post with great interest as I have been with my first Brasileira GF. I have been visiting/staying with her on and off for 7-10 days at a time returning to US for same amt. of time and back again for some fantastic sex during the last 3 months. I am going there again on Sunday for 3 weeks.
Your description is basically correct regarding nice guy approach. Also she was very quick with talk of marriage, BF/GF relationship, help financially and living together in USA or Brasil. Home cooked meals and even talk of a business partnership.
The only thing you did not mention was dealing with her promiscuity. When the US BF is away, she is surely spreading for other Brasileiros which is difficult to handle. Do you think the US BF should just forget thinking what she is doing or drop her. Afterall, when she talks of marriage, one would suspect she was faithful but she (they) can simply not get enough wood.
BTW, the Brasilian love motels are FAN-FUCKING-TASTIC. Every US gringo should try one.
Member #1461
05-13-05, 11:58
It looks like youve got dating brasilian girls almost to an exact science, you should be teaching "dating brasilian girls 101" at University. Im impressed.
Personally, I wouldnt have the heart to do it, which is why im concentrating on garotas de programa, I dont have enough bastardness in me to knowingly date these girls and promise them false love and marriage and then kick them to the curve and lead them to believe its their own fault. I understand HOW it can be done, but I just cant see myself doing it in reality.
With paid escorts you get all the sex but without all the emotional guilt trips, which is in fact what this ************* board is all about. Cash for pussy.
I think there's some confusion going on here re: the habits of Brazilian pros vs. the habits of Brazilian women in general. For instance, I don't find that a Brazilian woman is any more (or less) likely to be promiscuous or inclined to fuck around behind her BF's back while he's away than, say, a Canadian or American woman.
But jealousy is, by and large, dealt with in a completely different - let's just say more proactive - way here than it is in North America. And while a pro might not be attached to you because of love, she IS attached to you in the same way that a dog is attached to his favorite fire-hydrant: you are her "territory" and by showing jealousy, she's maintianing her "rights" in the eyes of any other women inclined to encroach.
Other women are the prefered audiences for these scenes - either directly or indirectly - any positive effect they have on you is just a nice by-product.
But yeah, overall FN is correct: if you treat a person like a GF they will feel entitled to act like one and here in Brazil that means grabbing on to your short-and-curlies and holding on very tightly.
Fartknocker
05-13-05, 20:43
I would agree with Mac that not all Brazilian girls fuck around behind their bf's back. I've dated a few that were exceptionally faithful to the point of curtailing their own social lives so as not to even APPEAR to be fucking around. Most foreign guys have only experienced girls from in and around Rio, and IMHO Carioca girls tend to be a bit more promiscuous than the average Brasileira. Ask any Paulista what they think of Carioca garotas and you will hear "they're a bunch of sluts." Stereotypes don't always hold, though. One of my gf's in Cabo Frio, a Rio girl, was very devoted and wouldn't even think of fucking around on me (even after she caught me running around on her). On the average, though, I think you are more likely to find a faithful gf in some caipira from Mato Grosso than in a wordly garota from Rio.
Personally, though, I wouldn't worry about a GF sleeping around behind my back unless I were fucking her without a condom. There is a saying in Brazil that basically translates "if you wash it, it's as good as new." I'm a big believer in this philosophy. I don't want to know where a girl has been as long as she's clean and disease free by the time I get on her. Think of it this way: if your gf is any good at all in the sack, she got that way by sucking and fucking a whole lot of dicks a long time before you came around. As long as she's practicing safe sex a few more dicks isn't going to make a damn bit of difference except to your ego.
Now of course this all goes out the window if she's living in my apartment, eating my food, and sleeping in my bed every night. In that case she damn well better be faithful when I'm gone or I'll kick her ass to the curb so fast her head will spin around twice. If I'm paying good money to rent that vagina, I expect to have the exclusive use of it. If that were the situation I would have someone keeping an eye on her when I am gone, and I would keep her guessing about when I was coming back.
But that's just me. Personally I tend to avoid live-in arrangements. A live in gf can seriously cramp your style if you want to get on some other chick. More importantly, when the inevitable breakup happens, she has access to all your household goods and to your sleeping person. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned . . ."
Thanks for the informative, intelligent posts.
She lives in a small city about 250 miles from S.P. in Parana State.
We are having unprotected sex.
I know she has condoms in her purse but I also know what she may use them for. Not necessarily for vaginal penetration and not back door entry.
Yes, she has surely fucked muitos before me. She told she lived in S.P. for one year. I don't believe she is telling the truth about the job she claims she had there.
Yes, she is fantastic in the sack. The best I've tired. I want more.
The male ego and jealousy plays an uncertain role in the relationship.
Fartknocker,
Great posts, as usual.
I value your insight into the Brazilian game since you lived there for some time and played it successfully, without falling into the typical traps (sometimes, as you know, deathly traps) - that speaks volumes about your intelligence and common sense.
Regarding that model whereby you have a pussy A, B, C, etc, would you say that pussies B, C and the like are happy with their roles as supporting actresses or do they usually put pressure on you so that they are upgraded to the upper levels of the alphabet?
Fartknocker
05-14-05, 21:14
Gladiator,
Whether the "other" girls want to be "the" girl depends a lot on the garota in question. I had one "other" with whom I spent almost as much time with as the gf. She knew about all the other girls I was screwing, but she never seemed to be unhappy about our arrangement. Then again I'm pretty sure she was fucking around, too.
My partner, the Fuck Master, had a very cute orthadontist who was one of his "other" girls through about four different gf's. She was a busy professional woman with her own money and really didn't give a shit who he was spending his time with as long as he would come around and fuck her at least once or twice a week.
However, the "ex" gf's will almost always give you shit about the current gf. They'll tell you all kinds of lies and rumors about her and try their damndest to upgrade their own status.
So basically how they react to being the "other" woman varies greatly.
NYC Expat,
If your girl is freaky great in the sack and spent a year at some mysterious job in the big city, she probably was a pro. In my experience, most Brazilian girls who give a really great blowjob are either pros or ex-pros. All my gf's from the little towns usually had only a few bf's before me and were weak on their oral technique.
If your gf is fucking you w/o a condom but carrying condoms in her purse . . . well, she's probably not using them for party balloons. I doubt she is carrying them just for giving blowjobs, because most Brazilian men don't put up with cbj's. So if your gf is still seeing other guys (or turning tricks) back home, she's probably using the condoms for more than oral.
But who really cares? Like I said before, wanting to have a chick exclusively is mostly an ego thing, and that ego-driven jealousy will only make you miserable. I used to try to check up on my girl -- particularly if she was living with me -- but knowing the truth never made me happy. These days I try my best NOT to know, and I avoid live-in's because ignoring her extracurricular activities is impossible.
My advice is to enjoy her and don't worry about it. If you start getting suspcious and feeling jealous, find another girl to fuck around with on the side. Nothing cures jealousy like having another pussy available.
Nothing cures jealousy like having another pussy available.The male ego could be a b*tch, and its only tamed by another b*tch!
Ken_Apples
05-26-05, 12:09
Hi folks!
I have two questions for all fellows out there, who have information about brazilian laws & pregnancy.
Question 1:
What happens if you make a brazilian girl pregnant?
Do you have any (more than moral) obligations that the law enforces on you? (economic support/other)
Question 2:
If you brought the girl back to your country (i.e USA/Europe) and made her pregnant during her visit there, how does that change the matter in form of economic support/other?
If anyone has some info on this subject, please help out - Many fellows would benefit from your knowledge, in forhand of getting into this kind of deep waters.
Best Regards / Ken Apples
ps: I'm not an A**hole that make chicas pregnant and afterwards toss them to the garbage, just want to know what kind of legal problems/obligations i could run into if facing a situation like this. ds.
Hi folks!
I have two questions for all fellows out there, who have information about brazilian laws & pregnancy.
Question 1:
What happens if you make a brazilian girl pregnant?
Do you have any (more than moral) obligations that the law enforces on you? (economic support/other)
Question 2:
If you brought the girl back to your country (i.e USA/Europe) and made her pregnant during her visit there, how does that change the matter in form of economic support/other?
If anyone has some info on this subject, please help out - Many fellows would benefit from your knowledge, in forhand of getting into this kind of deep waters.
Best Regards / Ken Apples
ps: I'm not an A**hole that make chicas pregnant and afterwards toss them to the garbage, just want to know what kind of legal problems/obligations i could run into if facing a situation like this. ds.Answer to your question is yes. You have to support the child. Both cases. You have no obligation towards the mother.
If you have a child with a brasilian, you can apply permanent resident status which you will most certainly get.
If you don't want to support the child, that is possible because its next to impossible to find an individual in any country. You might not be able to visit Brasil anymore, though.
P
Fartknocker
05-27-05, 00:12
Hi folks!
What happens if you make a brazilian girl pregnant?
Do you have any (more than moral) obligations that the law enforces on you? (economic support/other)
Are you kidding? Brazil is more militant about cracking down on deadbeat dads than any other country I've ever seen. There was a story in the paper a while back about a Brazilian guy who didn't pay his child support and they threw his 70 year old GRANDMOTHER in jail for it when they couldn't find him.
This topic has been discussed very recently in the "other info" area. Try that out to see if your questions have already been answered.
Ken_Apples
05-27-05, 11:26
Thanks FK - you always know where to find that little extra :)
For all forumreaders who'd like to know more about obligations and other legal issues regarding pregnancy, I recomend you to read thread 826 to 847, and thread 853 in the "General info" section.
Happy Reading! :)
Ken Apples
Fellas,
I'm not sure if my post will fit in with the current discussion but here it goes: I've been lurking on this board for a week now trying to learn as much as possible about the Brazilan culture. Forgive my ignorance but is disease rampant in the major cities? With all of the fucking going on by pros and non-pros, does anyone have a horror story to tell? I plan to visit Brazil next year sometime. Can anyone tell me when would be the most opportune time to arrive without the distraction of Carnival?
Thanks in advance.
Preme
Supreme,
Condom use is virtually universal for vaginal and anal sex, so the risk of STDs is minimal. All the girls DKF and nearly all give BBBJs, so I suppose there is a risk of oral transmission if she has herpes, gonorrhea, or syphilis (sp?). AIDS, however, cannot be transmitted through saliva. However, no one I know has yet contracted any STD of any nature. But there is always that risk with sex workers.
As for your other question, when to go, that is entirely a matter of personal preference. Personally, I'd much rather go in June, July, or August, which is the Brazilian winter, because it's not too hot. The Cariocas think it's cold, actually, but I think most people from temperate climates will think it's just about perfect. There is a chance that you might run into a chilly and rainy day, but that is unusual. There are also fewer tourists that time of year. Some say there are fewer garotas also, but I haven't noticed that.
Lorenzo
Blue Sterling
06-16-05, 18:10
I've searched the archives for this topic, but I could not find anything.
I am headed to Brazil at the end of July and I was wondering about the laws concerning pharmacies in Brazil. On my visits to Mexico, I just walk in and ask for what I want, pay, and leave. No problems and no script needed. Of course, I am not going in and asking for 200 Soma a time either. My Spanish, while not that great, is OK when it comes to medications.
Does Brazil have similar laws? Will I need to find an MD down there to get a script? I am currently looking for the translations for some medications - if anyone knows of a medical dictionary that would help - or a Brazilian equivalent of the PDR - please PM me.
Thanks!
I was in Rio last week and got some vitamin C. and a Brazilian vitamin V generic that also worked well. Sans a script. I also asked about something that would help me sleep and manage pain really well. And they gave me Diazapam, which is a Valium generic. Also works well, and also without scripts.
Orgasm Donor
06-18-05, 13:21
Im asking advice from Fartknocker, whose advice I respect. but posting in the open forum if anybody has anything to say, and for your entertainment.
Dear Fartknocker,
I have been getting addresses from a legit introduction service to meet a "nice" brasilera. a few of the profiles look suspiciously like GPs (Garota de Programmas / Escorts) I am aware of that since the advertisment is free to all attractive brasileras, a girl can drum up business, or actually meet a descent guy. You just have to use your judgement, like if she is topless in her profile, odds are shes a GP, (or at least part-time, this can be a grey-area folks...)
Well anyhow, I started writing to a girl whose photos looked too good to be true, and she insists she is a wholesome, simple girl looking for a good guy. Being a bit skeptical of this girl whose photos looked a bit too professional, and her admission that she has had silicone breast implants, I did a bit of internet detective work, and not only found her ad as an escort, but the exact suite at the sexo motel that she did the photo shoot.
OK, so I know she is a GP, but I only hinted at my suspicion. She still maintains that she is a "nice" girl.
She hasnt hit me up for money (yet), so I am thinking to myself ... "Hey, GPs need love too, they just do what they need to do." and Im also thinking to myself, "Hey, I know what her game is, so why not be on the level with her, and if we become good friends beyond that, then she is a pretty cool chick".
So Im asking you, do I play "dumb" and hope for some freebies using the logic that the only way she knows how to REALLY win a man over is by the allure of her ass, and then take it from there? or call her on her game right away and make her level with me before we even get to first base, hoping that being totally honest with each other will in the end make us more intimate?
The truth has to come out sooner or later, and I have more evidence on her than Downing Street has evidence of Bush fabricating the threat of WMD.
So what do I want? probably nothing too different than anyone else, A hot Garota that knows how to fuck like a porn star, and have it be a steady thing, (although I dont make it to Brasil 1 month, twice a year) and a bit more substantial than renting a girl for a month or two.
Play dumb? or Play along?
If things stay cool, Ill see her in the flesh in October.
Thanks,
O.D.
Almost every "legit" introduction service is HEAVILY populated by pros and gringo-chasers for the very obvious reason that it costs them nothing to post there. While there also non-pro, relatively sincere women posting on these sites, they are almost impossible to tell apart from the pros.
As a rule of thumb, you should presume that any woman posting on those sites is a gringo-chaser at the very least.
Im asking advice from Fartknocker, whose advice I respect. but posting in the open forum if anybody has anything to say, and for your entertainment.
Dear Fartknocker,
I have been getting addresses from a legit introduction service to meet a "nice" brasilera. a few of the profiles look suspiciously like GPs (Garota de Programmas / Escorts) I am aware of that since the advertisment is free to all attractive brasileras, a girl can drum up business, or actually meet a descent guy. You just have to use your judgement, like if she is topless in her profile, odds are shes a GP, (or at least part-time, this can be a grey-area folks...)
Well anyhow, I started writing to a girl whose photos ...........
O.D.I've had considerable experience with some of the major online agencies and in summary they are not far off being a complete waste of time. In Brasil, its so easy to start talking to people, meeting people is like pressing buttons unlike over here in Europe. Therefore there has to be a reason why these girls use these agencies such as yahoo.parperfeito., match etc.
My conclusions are..
1. They are bullshitters, believe me some just talk absolute crap. Lie about what they do, etc.
2. Fake fotos to suck you in. Quite common.
3. Lie about age, meet one girl who in her pics said she was 25, when I meant her she was in her 40's with a terrible skin complaint yyuuuckk.
4. Personal hygiene problem that their friends are too polite to point out. Honestly, more than a few I have meet had terrible bad breath, which I generally encounter vary rarely in Brasil.
5. Plain f*ckin ugly. Some girls are photogenic, others not.
6. Geeks and weirdos
7. GDP looking to rip you off.
8. And the LARGEST proportion are just TIMEWASTERS, I think they got bored one night and just messed about on the web.
The only benefit of these contacts is to practice your Portuguese and get some background info on the city, ie which nightspots are currently in etc.
I hope this helps.
Orgasm Donor
06-19-05, 18:10
I know alot of these garotas and intro agencies are time wasters, but I also know it pays to have a few contacts made in Brasil before you go. Maybe I got lucky the first time I went to Rio, but I had met a sincere girl from Copacabana, a nurse, who is gorgeous and her family took me in as their own.
But I think she is a little too straight for me. If she found that I was a player she would freak.
So I think maybe Ive come to a conclusion about this OTHER girl that is the GP I mentioned earlier.
I realized she doesnt want to admit she is a GP anymore than I would like to admit I am a monger. I can always keep this ace up my sleeve, and if it doesnt become an issue, no problem. Thanks for your responses.
O.D.
While we are talking about it, anyone else have a similar experience?
O.D.
you sound conflicted. that's OK, Brazilian women do that to you.
so which do you want the madonna or the wh*re? (dont take that as an insult as none is intended)
keep that ACE up your sleeve. don't expect to get a freebie though: aint no such thing. you'll be paying for dinner, and taking her on shopping trips, not to mention paying one of her utility bills. it wouldn't surprise me if SHE introduced you to her to her family too. enjoy your time with her, and try to figure out her game.
as for me i'd pursue the hot nurse. she's brazilian, and as such is more naturally freaky than the women back home. you'd be surprised at what straight looking women are capable of. these women love to f*ck as much as we do. i'd bet she'd outperform the GDP. give her all the O's she capable of, and she's yours.
make her into the woman that you want. :D
it's a great turn on to have a straight looking woman turn into a sex monster behind closed doors ( at least for me) :D :D
BTW, they're all "nice" girls.
best of luck
There are lots of mongers who come to Rio hoping to meet a true love. I don´t believe in meeting a girl using an agency.
At several occasions going to a internetcafé I´ve seen pro's, dressed up for work, writing to their boyfriends. "I miss you, stopped working as a puta, no more Help, stay home with my mother, love you so much and please send more money, much more money..." Sometimes writing to several boyfriends all over US and Europe. Thirty minutes later they will be outside Help.
This makes me laugh. I congratulate the girls and wonder who are the poor guys in US, Switzerland or Italy who works so hard to be able to send money to their "girlfriend"?
I also feel sorry for the guys who find a girlfriend who will treat them as shit. Just because she´s not asking for money for the sex they let her take advantage of them paying bills, buying clothes, a car or even a apartment. I even seen some brazilian girls slap their gringo boyfriends in their faces in public.
There is only one way to make it work with a girl like this:
Don´t treat her like a dog, but show here that you are capable of treating her like a dog. Then you will earn her respect.
I believe this to be true about all women.
The proper name for those kind of guys, Sperto, is "Papai Noel".
I've had considerable experience with some of the major online agencies and in summary they are not far off being a complete waste of time. In Brasil, its so easy to start talking to people, meeting people is like pressing buttons unlike over here in Europe. Therefore there has to be a reason why these girls use these agencies such as yahoo.parperfeito., match etc.
My conclusions are..
1. They are bullshitters, believe me some just talk absolute crap. Lie about what they do, etc.
2. Fake fotos to suck you in. Quite common.
3. Lie about age, meet one girl who in her pics said she was 25, when I meant her she was in her 40's with a terrible skin complaint yyuuuckk.
4. Personal hygiene problem that their friends are too polite to point out. Honestly, more than a few I have meet had terrible bad breath, which I generally encounter vary rarely in Brasil.
5. Plain f*ckin ugly. Some girls are photogenic, others not.
6. Geeks and weirdos
7. GDP looking to rip you off.
8. And the LARGEST proportion are just TIMEWASTERS, I think they got bored one night and just messed about on the web.
The only benefit of these contacts is to practice your Portuguese and get some background info on the city, ie which nightspots are currently in etc.
I hope this helps.
I have had good luck with match.com. Recently before I am ready to leave for Rio I do a mass mailing on match.com to ladies in the Rio area and I have recieved positive results and always set up a few dates for my upcoming trip. Usually for several weeks or months before my trip we converse on msn messenger to get to know each other.
Not everyone has been a score or worked out but I have had a few successes. And all were of high quality as far as looks, education and status in life, no GDP's and yes I have to hide what I am. Once I even was staying across from Help and Meia Pataca and denied that I have even been in Help, that I didn't know what it was, I was staying there because it was so close to Help.
I have even had ladies from all over Brasil contact me, some very nice ones and some that contacted me I scored with, some even came to NY to visit and I scored from the get go and again when I arrived in Rio.
I usually mix it up when in Rio, a little from match.com, some from Help and agencies(escort) and some I meet on the street or bars(non gdp), it makes it more interesting.
Turf Builder
06-24-05, 23:05
Has anyone purchased an apartment in Brazil? Was it difficult to do? Did you wire money to Brazil real estate company? Did they translate sales contracts and paperwork for you? Any info on this subject is appreciated.
Looking at apartments in Vitoria.
Thanks,
Turf Builder
Most of the chicks on that site are gringo chasers, I generally find that the the majority soon disappear from my inbox when they find out...
The about of time and number of visits to Brasil I've made.
I only write to them in Portuguese (maybe the think I'm a Brazilian pretending to me a Gringo?)
I ask specific details, such as which Barrio do they live in( I have an indepth knowledge of where they live, I can tell them what bus number they go to work on).
Generally these types are looking for guys who've never been to Brazil or otherwise ripe for a scam.
If you are getting it on with one of these girls, checking her cell phone when she's in the bathroom can tell you an awful lot(address book,missed calls, texts etc). If her cell phone is switched off when she's with you, or its on silent then you know for sure you're not the only cock on the block. I've noticed that these girls have a technique of checking their cell phone while still in their bag for missed text messages. Quite funny when you know how to spot it.
Also, get to meet her family and friends very early in the relationship, its hard to hide babies and boyfriends. Meet her at her work place. Makes it very difficult for her to maintain a double life.
Never give your trust to a girl who calls you "meu amor" continually. This is so they won't get your name wrong when they answer the phone etc!
Just for reference, I have no problems getting dates there in person.
One last trick, an old devious friend of mine used to let his girls use his laptop while he was in the shower etc. He had a keylogger installed that records all the keystokes. Later he'd hack the girls email account and he'd always find these girls had 3 or 4 other guys at least. Typically they'd be requesting money via Western Union.
I'm a cynical B@stard aren't I!
Trippleecks
06-25-05, 12:26
Turf Builder .... It's best to find a good lawyer that speaks English.
You have to wire money into the Central Bank NOT TO ANY AGENT.!! You can open an account just for this purpose IN YOUR NAME ONLY.!!!
Has anyone purchased an apartment in Brazil? Was it difficult to do? Did you wire money to Brazil real estate company? Did they translate sales contracts and paperwork for you? Any info on this subject is appreciated.
Looking at apartments in Vitoria.
Thanks,
Turf BuilderAll property has its title document held at the local escritorio de imoveis. You need to verify this prior to spending any money. All debts on a property are carried forward to new owners ie condo fee, IPTU etc.
The US embassy, consulate have a list of approved lawyers who SHOULD be more reliable. Never , I mean NEVER except help in these matters from girlfriends, tourist guides, buddies you met at Mia Pataca etc etc(including other gringos). A lot of people get ripped off in Brazil trying to buy property.
You'll also need a CPF to buy property. This is a tax number and is required for any large major purchase ie house, boat , plane, car. You can actually apply for the CPF at the Brazilian embassy in your own country.
I have read alot of reports here on WSG but yours has to be one of my favorites because you totally hit the nail on the head on how these girls operate. A friend of mine just got back from Manila recently and was seeing this girl for about one year, having spent several days with her over the course of a month that he was there, and having emailed her on a regular basis. While they were in the LA CAFE she left her cell phone on the table to go to the restroom so he turned it on and WOW did he ever get an eye opener. He not only retrieved her text messages that showed she had men from all over text messaging her and sending her money, he obtained her access number to her email and voice messaging by scrolling through her directory that provided him with details on all of these men. He also learned she had a 5 year old child she never disclosed to him even when he confronted her about it. He waited for awhile before busting her about all of her lies and manipulative ways, because he did not want to disclose to her that he had her access codes to her email and voice messaging. When he did finally confront her, he told her he knows every move she makes because he hired a private investigator to check on her. This is driving her crazy as she just got back from a trip to Hong Kong only to have him email her asking her how her trip to Hong Kong went, and what it was like in certain bars she frequented, as she met some guy there whom she befriended and gave her email address to, so he wrote her disclosing all the details of the happy night they spent together!. To end this post I have to support the fact you are a KING, the KING they cannot get there bullshit by! Keep up the good work!
@knife
While I agree with most you said, I doubt you are right here:
Never give your trust to a girl who calls you "meu amor" continually. This is so they won't get your name wrong when they answer the phone etc!
In Colombia at least, your girlfriend will NEVER call you with your actual name, but always call you "mi amor". She actually will be insulted or afraid that something is wrong, if you call her with her actual name without any apparent reason.
This might be similar in Brasil, so dont be too paranoid.
Exec Talent
06-26-05, 15:18
Most people I know have other names for the one they love. In the US it is often "honey." Some of you guys really must have been screwed over (and over) by women to be so paranoid, cynical and negative. You really ought to look into the reason for that. My bet is that it is as close as your mirror.
Most people I know have other names for the one they love. In the US it is often "honey." Some of you guys really must have been screwed over (and over) by women to be so paranoid, cynical and negative. You really ought to look into the reason for that. My bet is that it is as close as your mirror.Let me guess, you're in a long term relationship with a girl you meet on Copacabana at midnight. She calls you meu amor and is always checking her phone every 5 mins from within her bag. When the phone does ring, she never answers it or says its a wrong number. After the person has called her 3 or 4 times she swears a little and switches it off. You've never meet her family but only visited her in her apartment where she lives with her irmas?
----
Question: Why are Brazilian girls always late for a date?
Answer: Because the other guy couldn't come.
----
Just for the record, I have no problem pulling non pro's in Brazil, infact I haven't needed to P for P in nearly 2 years. I still have ex GF's pestering me 6-12 months on, their friends & sisters also try and make dates with me once they know I've finished with the other chick. So, I don't think there's a problem in the mirror, its just that the behaviour of the girls down here is much different than the US.
As for using "meu amor", only one girl used this with me in Brasil, and she turned out to be having an affair. The other times I've heard this is down at the mall when a girl is trying to get a guy to buy her something in the store" meu amor, meu amor, compro para mi" while pointing her finger at an expensive hand bag in the window of Victor Hugo.
The oldest MYTH amoungst the gringos is that Brazilian girls only have one boyfriend/client etc. They think that the Brazilian man is too macho to accept a girl who has her fingers in other pies. This is utter rubbish, most guys are quite happy to let the girl pay the bills for them.
In addition, even if you are initially the only cock on the block, local studs will target your girl once they know she has a rich gringo boyfriend. They want a piece of the action ($$$) as well.
"On the Go" Another thing I've noticed, for example you are in the food court in the mall, the girl keeps looking in her bag doing the cell phone checking thing. Then of course she needs the toilet, so you let her go while counting to 30. After you hit 30 you call her cell number, what a surprise, its engaged!
Another observation, was back at a GF's house to pick up some clothes for her to sleep over at the hotel. Funnily she couldn't find some items she had on a few weeks earlier. I wonder where she left them?
Fartknocker
06-26-05, 19:21
I'd wonder about any girl who called me "meu amor" just on general principle. "My Love" is a little strong for casual dating. I've dated several Brazilian girls for months at a time and never been called "amor." More common is "gostoso" (roughly: sexy man) or "lindo" (handsome man). Occasionally "safado" (shameless man/naughty boy), but that's usually in bed. ;-)
These days I actually tend to date more non-pro Brasileiras and only do the pay-for-play scene for an occasional thrill. Even good-hearted non-pro garotas will sometimes hide things from you initially. Often they may not tell you about a kid at home or an ex-boyfriend that is still around because they genuinely like you and don't want you to be put off by their situation. After they feel more comfortable with you and know that you are really interested in them, the details will come out.
The manipulating, multiple-boyfriend scam artist garotas are most definitely in the minority. Most Brazilian girls I've known and dated are genuine, caring and usually faithfull. Their dream is to find a good man, settle down with him and raise a family. These piranhas that make their living working gringo boyfriends for cash are by no means "the norm." Frankly, anyone who speaks the language and knows anything at all about the culture should be able to spot these women almost immediately.
Most of the chicks on that site are gringo chasers, I generally find that the the majority soon disappear from my inbox when they find out...
I only write to them in Portuguese (maybe the think I'm a Brazilian pretending to me a Gringo?)
I ask specific details, such as which Barrio do they live in( I have an indepth knowledge of where they live, I can tell them what bus number they go to work on).
Also, get to meet her family and friends very early in the relationship, its hard to hide babies and boyfriends.
Most of the chicks on that site are gringo chasers, well I would hope so as if they wern't than what would they be doing with me.
Actually some girls tell me that they are mainly interested in meeting Americans or Europeans as for whatever reason they are not happy with the Brazilian men. Also I ask they how do they expect to develop a relationship with an American if you don't speak English ? They tell me that it is very rare to meet an American who speaks Portuguese and that they feel lucky that they met me, speaking Portuguese is a bonus to them.
I really don't care what their agenda is what I care about is what my agenda is and if I am going to reach my goals or not, I do not want to meet their family and I prefer a woman who is married or has a boyfriend so that they don't pester me too much.
Most of the women are impressed when I show them that I am familiar with their neighborhood and various restaurants and clubs in town.
Also I have had a few that looked better in the picture than in person and vice a versa but once I met a girl whose foto was in a bikini with a great body but I really couldn't get a good shot of the face. I met her in a bar in Ipanema after she got off work at 5 pm, when she walked in yes she had a great body but the face was no Giselle Bunchen. She talked nonstop for an hour, I was getting bored and she was talking so fast that I barely could even understand her anymore. Finally I said to myself I have to get rid of her so I told her look you have no shot at ever developing a relationship with me, at best what we can have is now we go back to my apartment and have sex for a couple of hours then I give you cab fare home. I figured she would spit in my face and then leave but no she says sure lets go. Best sex I had all day after that she called me several times a day for the rest of the week, that was the price I paid.
Brasilian girls are like any other species, there are good ones and bad ones. Just have to sift through them.
"meu amor" . Doesn't have the same meaning as "I love you". Much more general in latin america. Girls often greet each other by this when meeting. I don't think it is a problem being called meu amor.
Exec Talent
06-27-05, 03:53
KnifeFish,
Took a look at your other posts most of which clearly indicate your negative view of others and life. For the record, meu amor has spent a lot of time in the US with my family, who adore her; as have I with hers. When I am with her, her cell phone rarely rings and when it does it is usually family or friends. How do I know? She hands the phone to me and I talk with them.
I have been traveling to Brazil for years, quite often and typically stay at least three weeks at a time. I spend most of my time with Brazilians and tourists from other countries. I get more than enough of your attitude living in the US, certainly don't need it when in another country.
The guys I respect here are not the macho ones who like to brag about never paying for it or when they do that they paid bottom dollar. They are the guys who show that they actually care about other people and as someone else said realize that we are guests in another country. Some of us really don't mind the weaker dollar if it means we will have to deal with fewer jerks who no longer can afford the trip to Rio.
Pay no mind to these folks who are criticizing you, for you are the one who has GAME and is not suckered in to the trap of these girls as everything you have said is reality. Sure there are exceptions but for the most part you know there game and you get before you are got!. You should change your name from KnifeFish to KingFish as you are the King when it comes to the women trying to run game as you just will not let it happen!
Exec, so your GF likes your family and you like hers. Want do you want? A cookie?
I've seen plenty of gringo-chasers make nicey with their husband's family and plenty have very nice families of their own. I STILL wouldn't marry them.
If your record for staying here in Brazil is three weeks and you don't speak competent Portuguese, odds are you are with a gringo chaser. That MAY not be the case as there are plenty exceptions to every rule. But I know where I'd place my money.
And what's the difference between a GP and a GC? A GC doesn't get paid by the hour but she is ultimately with you because she feels her life is going to take off in a big way by surfing on your wave. GPs are at least honest with themselves and with you.
Have a PhD, a Pimpin Hoes Degree! You are right again. Maybe this guy found a diamond in the rough and not the Machiavellian, gringo chasing, duplicitous, and clever so-called lovers and potential wives that Brazilian women are. If you are not living here 75-100% of your time (I am in Bahia now), then dont even think about making one of these chicks your girlfriend, as if she loves you. I see all these hoes out every night talking about their gringo boyfriends, and the giving up the a$$ for a few Reais or a nice dinner at Boi Preto. I have even been treated by a hoe to a nice meal because she was so taken care of by her boyfriend, and trust me. Dessert wasnt a friggin gelado!
Don't hate the player, hate the game!
KnifeFish,
Took a look at your other posts most of which clearly indicate your negative view of others and life. For the record, meu amor has spent a lot of time in the US with my family, who adore her; as have I with hers. When I am with her, her cell phone rarely rings and when it does it is usually family or friends. How do I know? She hands the phone to me and I talk with them.
I have been traveling to Brazil for years, quite often and typically stay at least three weeks at a time. I spend most of my time with Brazilians and tourists from other countries. I get more than enough of your attitude living in the US, certainly don't need it when in another country.
The guys I respect here are not the macho ones who like to brag about never paying for it or when they do that they paid bottom dollar. They are the guys who show that they actually care about other people and as someone else said realize that we are guests in another country. Some of us really don't mind the weaker dollar if it means we will have to deal with fewer jerks who no longer can afford the trip to Rio.Good for you, there are some good ones out there, its just that as a gringo, we are perceived as being rich and therefore are targeted by golddiggers. Many guys hit Rio with the intention of P4P, but soon fall in love with some GDP believing all that is said to them.
Exec Talent
06-28-05, 14:06
If your record for staying here in Brazil is three weeks and you don't speak competent Portuguese, odds are you are with a gringo chaser.
I speak Portuguese as well as several other languages and have been to Brazil at least 15 times in 5 years staying about three weeks each visit. I have stayed as long as several months.
Cash Works
07-03-05, 15:21
I realize that things change over time, but when I was living in Brazil (20 years ago), the term "meu amor" was in fairly common useage. While the direct translation to English is "my love", the meaning wasn't the same - something more like "my good friend". It wasn't limited to men & women who were having sex, I remember hearing it used frequently to defuse rather heated business negotiations when there weren't any women around and I'm pretty sure the guys, who seemed to be on the verge of throwing punches, were not involved in any 'mo activities.
Basically, if a GDP said "meu amor" to me, it wouldn't set off any alarms. However, if she started doing little domestic things like cleaning my apartment and cooking for me without being asked - air-raid sirens!
CW
I realize that things change over time, but when I was living in Brazil (20 years ago), the term "meu amor" was in fairly common useage. While the direct translation to English is "my love", the meaning wasn't the same - something more like "my good friend". It wasn't limited to men & women who were having sex, I remember hearing it used frequently to defuse rather heated business negotiations when there weren't any women around and I'm pretty sure the guys, who seemed to be on the verge of throwing punches, were not involved in any 'mo activities.
Basically, if a GDP said "meu amor" to me, it wouldn't set off any alarms. However, if she started doing little domestic things like cleaning my apartment and cooking for me without being asked - air-raid sirens!
CWActually most of non-pro's don't call anyone but their boyfriend / husband meu amor. And non-pro's don't want to be called meu amor either.
Working girls are calling just about anyone on the street meu amor. I have to agree with Macu, if you've heard that phrase, you're dealing with a GP.
P
brazilian women guide:
1. hookers: some are beautiful; some are not; but for someone who makes dollars or euros, they are pretty cheap; also, hookers in brazil don't look like the hardened *****s you find in europe and the us; that's why guys 'feel better' about doing them. especially because you can get lucky and find 'almost normal' girls who are hooking, and they get pretty affectionate; so guys can pretend they are 'almost real girlfriends' that's why guys like brazil
2. poor girls: poor girls want rich guys, and foreign guy is considered rich; at least foreign guy has passport and might be able to take them to faraway lands where money grows on trees; poor girls in brazil want a white knight, and think they will 'show up' their peers by running off to europe and america with a foreign guy and becoming the 'rich madame' they always see in novelas; that's why it seems like girls are easy and affectionate, but really, i would be affectionate too if i had a shot of marrying a rich sugar mama and i was dirt poor
3. middle class girls: these girls are harder, and have higher standards; but some still have white knight syndrome and some are even more money hungry than poor girls; because they think they are so close yet so far to the promised land; many of these ones wont sacrifice completely the looks of the guy, but will make a compromise; most middle class girls, however, dont want fat gringo since they kind of know many are losers back home; these are pretty good places to get real girlfriends if you live in brazil, look normal, and speak portuguese, because then, you become the normal gringo who has the special gringo status but still can communicate, date, and theyre not embarassed to take you to their family and friends
4. upper class girls: these ones are impossible for 99% of guys on here; they live better than you; but if you are a young good looking european guy, then you have a chance; because brazilian girls still want that classic european looking guy like jude law or something; brazilian girls are pretty messed up in the head, and always dream about jude law, brad pitt, etc. basically, anyone without too much black or indian blood
so there you have it. that's why brazil is considered to be a 'paradise' for guys. but really, it's no paradise at all. just simple economics and the wide-eyed pipe dreams of poor brazilian girls
i used to live in brazil.
Brazilian women guide:
4. upper class girls: these ones are impossible for 99% of guys on here; they live better than you; but if you are a young good looking european guy, then you have a chance; because brazilian girls still want that classic european looking guy like Jude Law or something; brazilian girls are pretty messed up in the head, and always dream about Jude Law, Brad Pitt, etc. Basically, anyone without too much black or indian bloodAlmost, but, if you have cash, beyond the expectation of the upper class girl this works too. I can attest to the fact that being a doctor has helped. :)
Then again, my history says that being a doctor is the ONLY thing that I have doing with women. Other than that, I pretty much suck.
S
Having recently run into a well to do garota from Ipanema (born and raised) here in the Chicago area, I beleive you are dead on with your assement of the "upper class" girls in Brazil.
After a few minutes of talking to her this is what I got:
I have a PHD, do you?
I divorced my husband, your married where is your wife?
I can't find any good help in this country, I am going to get nanny from Brazil but I want her to hang around for at least 5 yeas since it is so much trouble to hire a good one.
I had my polite attempt at being polite in Portugese corrected.
I was asked why I would ever go to SP since there was nothing there.
All this in five minutes while sipping my ice tea at a cafe. Imagine this for one day or a year, no wonder all the rich guys in Brazil keep mistresses on the side.
I'm not sure who the loosers are that you are referring to, most of those I met in SP and Rio were business types with some money and some time, most of whom were presentable. The problem is that even if an early 20's girl in the US or Canada wants to date a guy that is fifty the social pressure against it is quite strong. I have had plenty of twenty somethings that qualify as 7-10s offer it to me on the sly but I don't think they would date. So far I have refrained from doing my neighbors daughters, the waitresses and bartenders at my local restaurants, the teachers at my kids school etc. since this would be suicide for me.
"brazilian girls are pretty messed up in the head, and always dream about jude law, brad pitt, etc. basically, anyone without too much black or indian blood..."
Now see, this is the sort of phrase that interests me. Because when mongers talk about how they have a hankering for girls with "exotic" looks, they aren't considered to be "pretty messed up in the head". But a Brazilian girl with the same penchant (only reversed in terms of color), geez, she must be nuts.
What's the difference, man? A fetish is a fetish whether it's for blonds or morenos.
i have no desire for exotic brazilian looks. i just wanted a european looking girl who was easier than actual real european girls. but what i found in brazil was sad, girls who would not be super hot in europe thinking they were super hot because they happened to have a little bit of german blood in them.
i would say, brazil is pretty good place still if you are old and rich. because then, at least you have a warm young girl in your bed anytime you want and people act nice to you because you can throw some dollars or euros around. maybe even get nice girl or wife if you are not so bad looking or not super obese and can talk well.
but if you are young and just want easier girls, not really worth it i think. you will waste a lot of time, just to finish disillusioned. i think i kind of wasted best ofyears of my life in brazil, when i could have been with better girls, smarter girls, more educated girls here in europe. but now im older, still single in europe, and have to work harder to get the nice young girls here.
still, i would not go back to brazil. well, maybe just for vacation :-)
brazil city guide:
so i like european looking girls, not black or indian. just a word of warning
south brazil (porto alegre, curitiba, floripa, joinville, etc): you want blonde girl? there are no real blonde girls in south brazil. yeah maybe a few, but most just dye their hair blonde as much as possible. i mean think about it, even in germany, most girls are brown haired. so suddenly brazilian girls became blonde? all fake. fine, so you get more girls with european heritage. but they think they are hot shit because of this. still, the hookers are the best down here. and you still get poor non-pros, especially in the interior cities, who are pretty easy.
sao paulo: big city, lots of hookers, professional non-pro career girls you can fuck if you live there, but i dont like it because it is big and expensive
rio de janeiro: big tourist city, plenty of hookers, not so good looking to very good looking, all kinds. i would avoid because of STDs (men from all over go, many of these men probably have STD and give it to girls); non-pros kind of easy if you are nice looking european guy, but they are used to getting hit on; can't be tourist either, must live there and speak portuguese and ideally have some money
northeast (fortaleza, salvador, joao pessoa): black + indian + some european blood; girls are okay in these parts, poorer and more ignorant, so guys think they are nicer. but really, too much of a 'culture' clash with these girls for long term relationships i think; lots of euro guys marry the hookers and non-pros and bring them here, almost all of them go to divorce
amazon: forget it, filled with ugly indian looking girls
belo horizonte, goiania, etc: interior girls, so they are nicer and more wife material; pretty good place to find normal wife or girlfriend if you can bring some status, which could be money, foreigner with good looks, etc; also got pretty good hookers too, not as jaded as hookers from sampa or rio;
overall, for non-pros, i recommend interior cities off the tourist path
for pros, i recommend big cities in south of brazil
You got several good points in what you're telling. Still I can't agree with everything.
i have no desire for exotic brazilian looks. i just wanted a european looking girl who was easier than actual real european girls. but what i found in brazil was sad...
I can't understand why you went to Brazil looking for a european looking girl? I like the brazilian women because they look so different from the european girls. In Brazil you have the choice of negras, mulatas, morenas and "ugly indian looking girls" (which I find wonderful).
i would say, brazil is pretty good place still if you are old and rich...
but if you are young and just want easier girls, not really worth it i think. you will waste a lot of time, just to finish disillusioned.
If you are young and wants easy girls I can´t imagine a better place than Brazil. I will never regret that I spent the last 15 years in Brazil instead of getting married with a pale, blond, overweighted european girl who wants her weekly sex on saturday evenings after a bottle of wine. :)
You got several good points in what you're telling. Still I can't agree with everything.
I can't understand why you went to Brazil looking for a european looking girl? I like the brazilian women because they look so different from the european girls. In Brazil you have the choice of negras, mulatas, morenas and "ugly indian looking girls" (which I find wonderful).
If you are young and wants easy girls I can´t imagine a better place than Brazil. I will never regret that I spent the last 15 years in Brazil instead of getting married with a pale, blond, overweighted european girl who wants her weekly sex on saturday evenings after a bottle of wine. :)
So true !!
Guys,
Don't fool yourselves its all an understood hustle by both parties.
Yea, she love you. Can you WIRE me money also.
Trippleecks
07-13-05, 12:35
Liucio you're the expert!!! Everyone listen to Liucio, he is the only guy on the board that knows what is going on with hookers worldwide.
I'm not the expert I just learning you you guys.
I want to find love at the tables also.
I have a great story to share that I experienced 2 years ago in Belo Horizonte, but I do not want to reveal my respite areas.
I learning, I read and I learn and I search for love, like you guys.
So you all want to be able to sleep with beautiful 18 year old girls every night whenever you want and give you bareback blowjobs on command, but also want option of getting non-pro girlfriend or wife who is also beautiful and will love you forever.
So no, this is not really realistic for most of us. Yes, if you move to Brazil, learn the language, live there permanently, and you are rich and personable, anything is possible. But if you are all of this, then you would not be looking to move to Brazil anyhow, because you can do this at home too.
So let's discuss my solution.
Think of Brazil as fantasy island. No, no Tatoo waving at you when you land. But it can be your fantasy island for a little while. Why? Because it's cheap.
So get apartment in a city you like, that has good pro and non-pro scene. Some place in the south of okay. I would avoid Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paulo though.
Now you pay something cheap, like $200 per month for this apartment, which is nothing. Get a bed, Internet access, etc for it.
Now you just come to this apartment and stay for as long as you want 1 month, 2 months, 3 months. Fuck girls. Fuck 3 girls at a time. Get each one to suck your balls and dick and fight over it. Fulfill every twisted fantasy.
Also go out and meet non-pros. Say you are taking time off work, just relaxing. Fuck non-pros too. DO NOT MARRY THEM. DO NOT GET THEM PREGNANT.
Now you will start getting sick of Brazil. Kind of boring. Dangerous. People are stupid and try to trick you for money. Typical Brazilian stuff.
Now LEAVE. Yes, you, unlike Brazilians, have option of leaving. So go home. Get one with life. When you want your next "fantasy", just come back down.
That's the way you use Brazil, and not have Brazil use you.
That's the way you use Brazil, and not have Brazil use you.Best advice I've heard, trouble is most guys do it the other way around.
I was always astounded by the number of older guys retiring down there and blowing all their life savings on *****s within 6 months. I remember one guy in particular, when he first arrived he was at Help everyday getting double portions, less than a year later he was resigned to just sitting in his rented apartment watching TV, occasionally going for a walk and watching the action outside Help from beyond the flower baskets. His friends told me that he had "money" problems. Sad.
I wonder what happens to these guys when they get ill?
"I read and I learn and I search for love, like you guys."
From what I've seen here, you're looking for love in all the wrong places. :-)
HotTraveler
07-21-05, 21:15
I would wish to know,because don´t is advisable to marry with a girl from Brazil. I´ve read this suggestion,and in my opinion it can to intimidate if someone want to find a brazilian wife.
Are brazilian women goods like wife?
I'm 40 years old, but someday I would like to move to Brazil.
See you soon.
Cash Works
07-22-05, 14:04
Dude,
They're women, no better, no worse than anywhere else. I have friends who have been married to the same Brasillera for 20+ years, I have other friends who married multiple times (some in multiple countries). I'm pretty sure this topic has been covered multiple time here.
From what I can see, the ones that last are with women who have at least a little bit of sense (based in reality, realize that the novellas are just entertainment & not an accurate depiction of life) the guys are fairly laid back (not control freaks). Basically, the couples are friends, not just husband and wife.
The guys who married multiple times, IMHO, they would have had the same experience if they married someone from their home country - they found some really hot chick who was willing to get naked and nasty with them, they think they're in heaven & get married, once the papers are signed and they start to get to know each other, they find out that they really don't get along.
Personally, I've never been married and am not planning on ever marrying. The closest I might come to matrimony would be shacking up, but then, there's danger in "common law marriage" if you're shacked up long enough (six months in Brasil?).
CW
I would wish to know,because don´t is advisable to marry with a girl from Brazil. I´ve read this suggestion,and in my opinion it can to intimidate if someone want to find a brazilian wife.
Are brazilian women goods like wife?
I'm 40 years old, but someday I would like to move to Brazil.
See you soon.
Cash Works,
Common-law marriage can now be argued in court from the day you start maintaining a residence with another person, so be VERY careful. AFAIK, the time limit has been drastically weakened by our new marriage laws. Bottom line: do not set up householding with someone without a written agreement as to rights and responsabilities.
Good words on marriage btw. Friendship is what makes a marriage last, not the country the woman is from. And to be a friend with someone, normally you need to have a common language.
Exec Talent
07-22-05, 17:11
I dated a Brazilian for four years. Not an expert, not a newbie. I am a romantic, and a realist. What I loved most about her was sitting across the table from her in a restaurant and talking, taking walks, hiking or bike rides together. Basically, just being in her company. I always found what she had to say interesting and I never felt more loved. Have I found that with women from other countries? Sure. But, Brasileras seem to really know how to love their men. Now if only they weren't so jealous!
Unlike a lot of you guys, I have no women are Bit**es stories. Most have treated me very very well (including last night). My advice is to ask yourself a simple question -- Would I enjoy sitting across the table with this person the rest of my life?
Carlos Primeros
07-23-05, 12:34
I was married once to a wife from a French colony. Never again!!! I burnt not only my fingers, I burnt my both hands!
I am dating now a Brasileira since 6 years - she was studying medicine and was working on the side in a terma to pay for her studies. Now she is a dentist in Rio and I am with her 5 - 6 times a year each time 1 - 2 weeks. I never had a better wife! If I go out with her, I am not bored, if I go to a theater with her, she is not bored, if we discuss things - both are not bored, I am treated like a king. You find a lot of well- educated and good women in Brasil. Mind - they had been growing up in a society where MACHISMO ruled and they have observed how their mothers had been treated. The man is the boss in the house. My noiva - she is now 34 - has now enough money to afford a very good life, she travels with me when she has holidays and I am a happy man. She had enough cock when she was working in a terma and is not interested anymore in other dudes. She does really not appreciate when she catches me mongering around - but - what the hell - I am a man and everytime the very best 4 course-menue requires also a change - sometimes McDonalds will do - or a terma - visit. Also some of my friends in Rio she does apreciate - they are all Brasileiros/Portugues or Germans living in Rio. Most of them are married or are living together with women and we still get together form time to time for an extended weekend with some chicas. The reaction is mostly - when and if they find out - first rage/jealousy, than hurt and in the end all of my friends tell their wives/girls - you can have me as I am or if you do not like it - I get another one and you go and find another one which is doing what you want. As long as you treat them with respect - they will hang on to you because they know exactly that to find a male "gem" is also very very difficult in Brasil. Most Brasileiros - not insult intended - are not taking too much care about their wives/girls. There are simply too many around.
Also a thought about statistics - there are approx. 10 % more women than men in Brasil, and another 10 % of the Brasileiros are gay - so there are in total 20 % more women than men. Somebody has to take care of these 20 % unsatisfied women! Alas - fellow mongers - treat the Brasileiras well and with respect - they repay it 200 % with kindness.
These are my 2 cents.
Carlos Primeros
Sigh. The old "I met my girlfriend/fiancee/wife in a Terma but she is DIFFERENT from the other ones" story. This is not the first, or the last time, I'll hear a story like this that's for sure.
So yes, you may have found that rarest of Terma prostitutes. The one who is a really good girl inside, just doesn't care about money, and is really in love with you because all Brazilian men are horrible and you happen to be the best thing that ever happened to her emotionally and mentally. Yes, it's possible. But not probable.
However, I will say that brasileiras, esp. the more decent non-pros, do seem to put their heart into a marriage once they get empregnated. So while kids will turn a bad marriage into hell, kids may also solidify a marriage that might not survive without children. So yes, I guess the "empregnate the non-pro brasileira" strategy may work for some.
But it is true. If you can be very good "friends" with a woman, brasileira or not, then that has promise.
"I am dating now a Brasileira since 6 years - she was studying medicine and was working on the side in a terma to pay for her studies."
Carlos, I hate to break this to you, but good schools are free in Brazil and it's pretty easy to get financing even for a not very good school, especially if one is going to be a doctor some day and shows some measurable degree of talent for the work.
But if your girl is a dentist, what the hell was she doing studying medicine? The two are completely separate fields in Brazilian universities, as they are in the States. The entire story smells kinda funny.
"I never had a better wife! If I go out with her, I am not bored, if I go to a theater with her, she is not bored, if we discuss things - both are not bored."
Sounds like a pretty nomral experience to me. Both my wives and all my GFs were that way. Then again, I went out with them precisely because I already knew they were good people beforehand, I didn't just pick them up at a bar because they had a great ass or whatever.
"I am treated like a king."
Interesting comment. But if it means that you are never seriously contradicted or that your wife never has serious issues with your behavior, then I think that it's a case of someone looking after their investment...
"Mind - they had been growing up in a society where MACHISMO ruled and they have observed how their mothers had been treated. The man is the boss in the house."
Carlos, how much experience have you had with Brazil on your own? I mean not filtered through the perceptions of whatever girl you're with who's translating for you and trying to butter you up? Because I've lived here for 20 years, man, and that is one of the most assinine and hilarious statements I have ever heard.
You do realize that Brazil was the largest slave society in human history and that slave societies traditionally produce MATRIARCHIES? I don't know a single Brazilian family where the woman isn't calling the shots, at least as regards to most important things in the family's life. Sure, if she's wise, she'll let you have your own life and concerns, as long as these don't make her look like a fool or a chifruda. But rest assured, Carlos, Brazilian women are by and large not passive little girlies in awe of their lords and masters and if this is the vision of sex relations your noiva is trying to give you, then she's running a line on you.
"She does really not appreciate when she catches me mongering around - but - what the hell - I am a man and everytime the very best 4 course-menue requires also a change - sometimes McDonalds will do - or a terma - visit."
If she's caught you several times now and hasn't cut your balls off yet, then rest assured, you probably have a very considerable set of horns on your own head. If that doesn't bother you, fine, but the female attitude towards this sort of thing down here is generally "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".
BTW, I know of NO self-respecting Brazilian woman who'd passively put up with betrayal by her mate UNLESS she was totally bought and sold by him. So either your GF is not as financially independent as you claim or she's getting her own back on the side, which probably isn't too hard to do.
"As long as you treat them with respect - they will hang on to you because they know exactly that to find a male "gem" is also very very difficult in Brasil."
Betraying one's spouse is NOT considered respectful behavior in Brazil and any Brazilian will confirm that to you for the asking. And men who do that kind of thing are universally regarded as scum by women, not as gems. Given the things you say, it looks more and more likely to me that your "angel" is with you for one reason and one reason only: the expectation of cashing in somehow.
"Most Brasileiros - not insult intended - are not taking too much care about their wives/girls."
Unlike you, right Chucky? LOL.
"Also a thought about statistics - there are approx. 10 % more women than men in Brasil, and another 10 % of the Brasileiros are gay - so there are in total 20 % more women than men."
Carlos, where do you dig up those stats? In the first place, 10 percent of the HUMAN POPÙLATION of Brazil is gay, not just the men. So homosexuality just rinses out. Sure, one in every ten Brazilian guys couldn't give a fuck about women. Then again, one in every ten Brazilian women would rather be carpet munching than looking at YOU, so that's that. No imbalance. (BTW, termas chicks and Copa pros are notoriously sophic in their sexual preferences...) As for there being 10 percent more men than women, according to the census (and you can look this up on IBGE's website if you like: http://www.ibge.gov.br/home/estatistica/populacao/censo2000/tabelabrasil111.shtm), that imbalance is closer to 4 percent, pretty much the same imbalance as exists in the U.S. and Western Europe
There are 83,500,000 men in Brazil and 86,200,000 women. Furthermore, most of that imbalance occurs due to the fact that women, on the whole, live longer than men. If we look at the 20 to 24 year old age group, the imbalance stands at less than one percent. In the 30-34 age bracket, which includes your GF, we see that the numbers stand at 6,360,000 men to 6,660,000 women - an imbalance of 5 percent.
And therein lies the true story of why your noiva is with you, Carlos.
Most med students start their studies at around 20 or so and it's a 4 year program. So a serious med student can expect to be out of school and doing her residency by 25. By 34, she should already be well established in her practice.
But your girl is 34 and working as a dentist - and let's be frank here, Carlos: being a dentist in Brazil costs a fair ammount of cash in terms of equipment outlay. I'd lay dollars to donuts that what your GF almost certainly really is is an ASSISTANT dentist - what folks in the States call a "dental hygenist".
So what we have here is a girl who's been working in a shitty, dead-end job while perhaps dabbling in paying for a few courses at a low-end private university - the kind that accepts most anyone with cash. In order to pay for her lifestyle, she's been working as a termas hostess, but now she's passed that magic 30 number and she realizes, as almost all prostitutes do, that it's time to look for a way out of the biz unless she wants to end up at 50 selling blowjobs down in Largo de Santana for 10 reais a pop.
Education is one way to retire, but taking 14 years to complete a 4 year course - especially at a notoriously unpicky private school (and Carlos, unless she's been studying at PUC, that's EXACTLY the kind of school she went to), ESPECIALLY when, given her cash flow as a pro, money isn't the problem - doesn't bode well for her ability to climb into the ranks of Brazil's non-sexual working professionals.
Another way out would be to take her act to Europe or the States, where many guys go for 40 year old Brazilians.
But the third way out is to find and marry some guy who'll be willing to overlook her past and will guarantee to maintain her in the style she's become accustomed to. Now who is she going to find, Brazilians? Not bloody likely. Her complaints about "Brazilian men" are right on the money - as long as we recall that she's probably describing the type of guy she's been meeting and dating at the termas. These are generally married scumbags who are busy ducking out on their wives and who, while they'll countenance to maintaining a concubine for a time, CERTAINLY aren't looking to maintain a forty year old one. What's her chance of finding a "normal" middleclass Brazilian guy? Not very good, precisely because the kind of cock-and-bull story she's told you will ring all of our alarm bells. And while I, personally, would have no problems dating an ex-pro, I CERTAINLY would object to dating one who was trying to pass herself off as a struggling but talented med student, "forced" into prostitution for decade to pay for her education. And most Brazilian men I know are much more morally picky than me: they'll fuck a pro, but marry one...?
So what does that leave Cinderella for choices? Well, gringos looking for Fantasy Island, basically. Guys like you are already mostly convinced before you get here that Brazilian women are some sort of special, sui generis, "issue-free" branch of human femininity. Most of you certainly don't know Portuguese and can't pick up on cultural subtleties, such as what it means to be a "college" student at 34 in a private school in Brazil. You're by and large embittered about the women in your homeland and come here thinking you'll find something "special".... Do you know how easy it is to manipulate a guy like that, Carlos? The pros here in Copa do it ALL THE TIME. They have a whole script set up designed to convince guys like you that you are, in fact, white knights taking them away from "horrible Brazilian men" and a life that they were "forced" into.
Carlos, I TEACH at universities and most of my female students are poor kids from the boonies or even the favelas. NONE of them, as far as I know, turn tricks in order to support their education. The idea that one needs to do this in order to study in Brazil is one of the oldest bullshit stories, ever. It capitulates on mongers' fascination with "college" girls by feeding them the line that one is just a "normal", sex-loving girl who's making her hobby pay off for her. I know hundreds of prostitutes and thousands of college girls down here, Carlos, and I can tell you one thing with certainty: no one begins prostituting themselves in order to make it through school. In every case I've ever seen, the woman in question starts paying for classes at a bottom-rate private school several years AFTER entering into prostitution precisely as an exit strategy from the life. Unfortunately, this doesn't work so well. If the girl had what it took to get into a decent school, seh wouldn't be selling the jelly roll out on Copa. And while her cash might pay for a vacancy at some UNIGRUDI da vida, diplomas from these McUniversities generally aren't worth the paper they are printed on. They are our equivalent of the community college, though most of them don't even offer that relatively high level of education. A "med student" from, say, Univercidade (where an illiterate recently passed the entrance exams) isn't going anywhere in life unless she's incredibly talented and has a lot of luck to boot.
Once the pro in question finds these facts out for herself, she goes to Plan B, which is usually "find a husband". And for the reasons pointed out above, gringo fantasiests are prime rib in that game. Afterall, if the marriage falls apart, why, she's in the U.S. or Europe, isn't she, and she's just effectively added another ten years onto her working career...
Now, all this does NOT mean that your relationship with your GF won't work out. Pros are women long before they enter into the job and long after. They love and live like anyone else. It's possible that a pro will find a guy who she loves and leave the life.
But Carlos, given what you've said above, you are treading on DANGEROUSLY thin ice, my friend. A mix of insult and injury DO NOT rank high as a Brazilian national dish and if 400 years of slavery did anything in Brazil, it created a female population which, by and large, is NOT adverse to taking serious revenge on those men who it feels have wronged them. And Carlos? "Corno" is perhaps the gravest insult you can give to ANY Brazilian, male or female. And here you are, happily glueing great big horns on your bride-to-be's head and thinking that she's aceding to this behavior because there's some sort of cultural complex in Brazil which makes women passively accept the transgressions of their menfolk.
Carlos, ol' buddy, are you EVER going to be in for a suprise somewhere down the road. My reading of the situation is that she's putting up with your shit because she still thinks that it will be her best option in life. The day that that no longer applies, she is going to leave you so fast that it will make your head spin. And she may just take a chunk or two of your anatomy along with her.
Let me give you some very good advise, not that I expect that you'll take it: if you can't keep your dick in your pants, DO NOT tell a woman - especially a Brazilian woman - that you love her and are willing to settle down with her. And if you really do love this noiva of yours and want to make her your wife, then do whatever you need to do to give up mongering, really dedicate yourself to her and hope she forgives you. Maybe she'll be willing to overlook your past transgressions in light of her own past and long as everything STAYS in the past. But frankly, I doubt it.
Mongering and marriage are ultimately incompatible lifestyles and that's true anywhere in the world, Carlos. Brazilian women generally don't accept betrayal by their men and are probably more likely to do really serious damage to the men who fuck them over than any American or European woman I've ever met.
Choose one life or the other: DON'T think you can combine them.
Carlos,
"10% of brazilian men are gay": Did you pull that stat out of your ass? Im just curious. I always read that in America about 1-3 % of men are gay. I dont know why it would be that much higher in Brazil.
Macunaima,
"Mongering and marriage don't mix".
Well said, Charlie Sheen can tell you all about that. I remember when he married Denise Richards, who is a piece of ass, most of the non- mongering guys in the US said he would probably stay faithful and that he had enough of mongering, she was hot, blah blah.. The truth is once your a monger, and have money, it's almost impossible to stop. No matter how hot your wife is, Elizabeth Hurley comes to mind, You will almost always come back. It's a addiction that a wife cant cure. The real strategy is keeping it secret so you can stay married. If they ever cure aids and herpes, it would be 100% impossible to stop. Right now thats the only thing that will keep some guys from going back.
Trippleecks
07-24-05, 13:37
Carlos, you poor sucker... I think you are being suckered out of your CASH like plenty of other guys......
yea here's another Brazilian expert heard from...
Macunaima I think you are correct, he's being taken for a ride with his eyes wide open and he's smiling..
The 10% stat on homosexuals comes from the most recent estimates in Brazil and the U.S. 3-4% of men are OPENLY gay. Probably double that - and the vast majority of lesbians - are in the closet, or even married.
Hell, who do you guys think picks up all those trannies down in the Passeio Público? According to the "girls" down there, it's mostly "happily" married men who are VERY securely in the closet and who feel that getting fucked up the ass by a transvestite is somehow "less queer" than biting the pillow for a pitboy bodybuilder.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your definition of an expert.
What is an expert again?
Because I don't know but and still learning.
Carlos Primeros
07-24-05, 20:54
Gentlemen - point taken.
Carlos
Carlos Primeros,
Your life, make of it what you wish.
Fuck it up,
Enhance it.
Its your's.
Hopefully you know if your bullshitting you.
Hell, who do you guys think picks up all those trannies down in the Passeio Público? According to the "girls" down there, it's mostly "happily" married men who are VERY securely in the closet and who feel that getting fucked up the ass by a transvestite is somehow "less queer" than biting the pillow for a pitboy bodybuilder.I'd always thought of those pit bull guys as being gay, I mean to sit in a gym all day sweating it out with other guys, then go rolling around a mat with each other a la "jiu jitisu" seems a bit queer. You rarely seem them with chicks either, just in big groups on a boyz night out LOL (usually Le Boy I guess).
I'd always thought of those pit bull guys as being gay, I mean to sit in a gym all day sweating it out with other guys, then go rolling around a mat with each other a la "jiu jitisu" seems a bit queer. You rarely seem them with chicks either, just in big groups on a boyz night out LOL (usually Le Boy I guess).Yeah, they really do seem to enjoy the company of other men, don't they? LOL.
The Corn Hole
07-28-05, 14:46
I'd always thought of those pit bull guys as being gay, I mean to sit in a gym all day sweating it out with other guys, then go rolling around a mat with each other a la "jiu jitisu" seems a bit queer. You rarely seem them with chicks either, just in big groups on a boyz night out LOL (usually Le Boy I guess).I think you should share how you feel with them Knifefish. I'm sure they love to hear what traveling gringos think of them. It seems you don't have any trouble giving your opinions anonymously on the web so that would be the next logical step don't you think ? You may even be rewarded for your honesty with a couple of cracked ribs, a broken nose and maybe a dislocated shoulder but the most important thing is your letting your opinion be known.
tchou.
Carlos,
How many kids does she have, if any?
Macunaima,
Some of tese guys r believing that they can score with the average non prostitute and that its easy to do so, without knowing a bit of the language and culture.
They think they there money has no influence on enticing the prostitute.
Do you belive this?
Do you thing these guys can come in a pull a girl that has an education and some skills and that is not in desparate need of selling herself for money.
Maybe I am the 1 who has lost it.
Can you post the wisdom here and burst some bubbles.
Does anyone have any recent experiences with getting a CPF? I should be able to get one easily, if I can figure out where to go exactly.. I am married to a Brazilaria now. I will be in SP next week and starting the process..
So far I think I need to go to a cartório and bring:
1) My passport.
2) Proof of address in Brazil (I guess my wife's information from our apartment, we own a couple of apartments, so I think the deed will work).
3) My birth certificate.
4) Our marriage certificate (was in California). I hope the english original will work.
Then if all that goes smoothly, go a a Caixa Econômica Federal, fill out the forms, pay fees.
The next day go to a Receita Federal office, present all forms above, and get my CPF..
If somone has done this, any pointers, like where is a cartório in SP (Centro/Consoloçao)?
Thanks, and I will post back results in a few weeks..
I think you may also need a criminal background report from your local county court as well as FBI. I am not 100% sure though as last year, I went to Curitiba's Policia Federal to apply for a permenent residency status (as I married to a Brasilera) and part of the check list items was criminal background check. Good luck.
Although I agree mostly with Macunaima's comments on Termas girl working on her doctor degree and about Brasilian women tolerating their men fooling around on the sideline. However, I respect Carlos. Life is a journey and in a journey, anything can happen. We can comment on other's journey but we should be most respectful of the decisions they make as they have the soul and the bravity to walk their path.
Are there termas girl turned straight after marriage? I know one but she had a lot of issues to work out after her marriage. It takes a very determined and patient husband to walk that path with her. Are there termas girl remains same old same old after the marriage. Yes, I know one. Although she married a German who loves her dearly and moved her to Germany, she still comes back to Brasil a few times a year and hang out at the "places" to pick up guys.
Brasilian women subservient to men and allow men to fool around? I know a few Brasilian women and I know none who would do that. In fact, most of them have an attitude very much like American women except they pay more attention to their look (fit and nice looking), their dress style (modest but elegant and none of that Gap look in the US) and they do put family as #1 on their list. Other than this, in my limited experience, I did not see Brasilian women any different from American when it comes to the relationship in a marriage. Having said that, I am not stating that Carlos' experience is false. I thought I spent a lot of time in Brasil but this is a huge country with 250,000,000 people, no way I would know everything.
For my Cpf...
I had to get my Birthcertificate certified by the brazilian consulate which governs the state that I was born in. ex. I was born in NJ so I had to mail by birthcertificate to the NY consulate. The cost is $20 dollars payable by money order from the post office.
In Brazil I had to get the certified birthcertificate translated to portuguese by a registered translator. took only one day .. and think it was 40 reals.
I filed and paid at banco do Brasil .... and then 2 days later I picked up my cpf at a receita federal. Just a paper stating number of CPF
you will receive the card in the mail usually by 6 weeks.
Hope this helps
I got my CPF for foreigners last year in Rio. The office is located in Ipanema.
Very well organised and very efficient.
All you need is your passport.
I also had a letter of the hotel I was`staying stating that but I cannot recall whether it was for the CPF or for opening a bank account. I think it was for the bank account which I finally never managed to open. I had to have a permanent resident card for that. The so called "permanenhee".
You make your application and you have to return in about two days having paid a small amount (R5 ? ) to Banco do Brasil which is around the corner and then they hand you a piece of stamped paper with the CPF number on it
telling you that yuo can commence using it right away.
They say that you will get the CPF card mailed to your address within 3 months maximum. I got it in two weeks time.
No birth certificates or any other.
Hope this helps.
El Greco
El Greco that wasn't the case for me.... exactly how I stated.
I am american so they probably enjoy making things as hard as possible for us ...
Also I got my CPF in Sao Paulo.
probably just depends on the mood of the person behind the desk though!!!!!!
Macunaima,
Some of tese guys r believing that they can score with the average non prostitute and that its easy to do so, without knowing a bit of the language and culture.
They think they there money has no influence on enticing the prostitute.
Do you belive this?
Do you thing these guys can come in a pull a girl that has an education and some skills and that is not in desparate need of selling herself for money.
Maybe I am the 1 who has lost it.
Can you post the wisdom here and burst some bubbles.My experience from summer 2004, is from Fortaleza, Ceara, only.
There was this girl, C. (Carolina) , she was 19 years old as I had meet her, and been talking with in advance on MSN. At this time I was 43.
I would say she come from the upper middle class, portuguese look, sweet and very nice curved.
As I arrive to Fortaleza I was quite keen to meet this girl I had chat with on MSN.
I phoned her, localfrom my hotel. There was no good english spoken by her, but her brother was well educated, as he transfer mine and her words.
It all end up with some ( from mine view ) special treatment.
As I was inviting her to dinner, I had to invite her brother, and also HIS English teacher at his Uni. They thought this would be more interesting, and they where riight! We had a very pleasent evening all together, and they invited me on a local-guided tour of Cerara the following morning.
All in all; it was accepted that I as a 43 year old man could be the boyfriend to this nineteen year old girl, she was very sweet, especially when we was alone. I have seen her home, and it was much more impressive than my own.
Also today, she is a student, and we chat on MSN, via web-cam. We will meet again, for sure!
So, in the end, I would say; it is possible! But it depends on Your behaviour and skills.
Good Luck !
PM me for additionals questions.
I made a deposit on beach front property in Rio and ask the "American" broker if a title company is needed to verify clean title. He told me that the "Brazilan govt" verifies clean title and there will be no need to worry about losing the property once the is final. Is that a true statement or should I hire a Brazilian attorney vetted by the U.S. consulate to verify clear/clean title?
Carlos Primeros
09-10-05, 14:03
Thank you Johan that you resepct the way other people make decisions and live accordingly. I asume you are European and have learned to tolerate different views.
Carlos
Trippleecks
09-11-05, 12:01
Vidal41 ... Are you crazy.
Never believe the broker!!! There are no guarentees on titles in Brazil. The Government WILL NOT guarentee a clean title. Get a lawyer to do a search and see what he can find.
I made a deposit on beach front property in Rio and ask the "American" broker if a title company is needed to verify clean title. He told me that the "Brazilan govt" verifies clean title and there will be no need to worry about losing the property once the is final. Is that a true statement or should I hire a Brazilian attorney vetted by the U.S. consulate to verify clear/clean title?
I was searhing to buy a flat last year in Rio. My Greek friend who lives there for the last forty years had made clear to me that eventually I shall need the services of a lawyer in order to check the titles.
I finally did not purchase one for other reasons.
IMHO a lawyer is a must.
El Greco
DO NOT attempt to buy property in Brazil without the aid of a lawyer that you can trust. The Brazilian government DOES NOT guarantee clean title and the fact that someone would even tell you that they do, to me, is reason enough to suspect their intentions. Ask any Brazilian friend if they would buy property without a title search...
As for girls in the termas and whatnot, what can I say...
EVERY pro knows she needs to get out of the biz sooner or later and one of the easiest ways is to get married to a guy who'll take care of you. So there's PLENTY of incentive to marriage and to making the marriage go right.
My only point here is that it seems to me that this is a case of buying the cow when you only need to rent it. Unless the woman is very special and you know her very well, why would you want to get married to an ex-pro whose language you probably barely know? I mean, isn't it the complaint of most mongers that they go to pros in the first place because "normal" women are too aggressive and too ambitious, too out for their own selves? Well, guys, most pros I know who are looking for a gringo husband are being driven by aggressive ambition and self-interest. Sure, maybe even then things will work out.
But why marry a woman whom you KNOW is going to be using you as a meal ticket if you're adverse to that sort of thing to begin with, as most mongers claim they are?
There is a saying you will hear alot in Costa Rica (the land of the scams) but could equally apply to Barsil.
If it flies, floats, fucks or is Costa Rican Property --- Rent it don't buy it --- If you do, you will live to regret it.
Carlos Primeros
09-13-05, 22:01
I can only recommend that you have a lawyer do the title research. One of my relatives bought five years ago in Blumenau a piece of land. The title research was done and it showed that the sale from a church-organisation to an indvidual 28 years ago was not properly done and that the Catholic Church was still the legal owner of the land - everybody assumed at those days that the transfer was done and closed. The whole thing was settled amicably but why should this happen to you? There are a lot of Brazilians which would like to make a gringo pay for nothing or at least for an invalid title. The Brazilian Government guarantees only one thing: That all their records are hoplessly incorrect and a big mess. In Brazil there is a time-limit in which titles can be contested. It is 30 years. A professional lawyer will do a search to this time-frame.
I assume that the US Consulate in Rio or whereever you want to buy the property will provide you with the address of a semi-decent and skillful lawyer.
Payment: do not - under no circumstances - conclude a contract with a "split price", meaning one figure in the contract and the other amount cash. Remember - you have to bring this money into Brazil leagally. By just taken 40.000 cash to Brazil is illegal and you might be set up paying this money. Make a transfer to an escrow account with Banco do Brazil and pay from this account to the guy. Normally when you open an account in Brazil, you must give your tax-number (CPF), As a foreigner you do not have one - alas - you can open only an account with Banco do Brazil. Alternatively first get a residence permit (permanente) in Brazil and than effectuate the purchase of the appartment. I would do this anyhow first.
One final thought: why are you not renting an appartment? Put your money in some investment - fund, cash the profits out and pay with the profits the rent. If you do not like the place anymore, just terminate the retal contract!
I am also living from time to time for longer periods in Rio but I would never ever by an appartment there. You never know how the situation in a part of Rio developes and suddenly your place turns into a favela. Then you can kiss the value of your appartment good-bye.
These are my 2 centavos.
Carlos
Member #3427
09-14-05, 00:02
I got my cpf card a few years ago at the Copacabana post office using the address of a friend who lives there. Cost approx. 5 reais and mailed to his address in a few weeks.
Royalflush
09-28-05, 21:32
Can someone point me to a good source of listings for long term rental in RJ? The term I have in mind is 4 - 6 months, during the Winter. I'm already familiar with the vacation listings such as EZ, Rioapartments, RentinRio, etc., etc. and I don't want to pay vacation rates.
Thank you
Under100Pesos
09-29-05, 02:02
Can someone point me to a good source of listings for long term rental in RJ? The term I have in mind is 4 - 6 months, during the Winter. I'm already familiar with the vacation listings such as EZ, Rioapartments, RentinRio, etc., etc. and I don't want to pay vacation rates.
Thank youRoyalflush,just got back from living 14 months in Rio.Went through some interesting times trying to find long term.
You have 2-3 options,the first being the newspaper.This can be very good because prices are much cheaper.The down side is number 1,trying to arrange and even get the landlord to show up! Called about 50 adds and got maybe two people to meet me.Then because you are a visitor there with no paperwork they want a fiedor,or co-signer.Sorry about the spelling.Some will deal with 3 month deposit up front,get receipt!
The first apartment i found was through a rental agency.There are about 4-5 of them i checked.They are located in the copa on Barrata Roberto Rua.this is the main street behind Nossa Senora.Sorry don't remember addresses,but they are straight up from the lido district,by the metro entrance.Found a one bedroom apt. for 1000.00 R per month.They can show you pic's on computer,and if interested you can go in person to see.R500.00 deposit moves you in.
I stayed in copa for three months then moved to another barrio.Three months there is enough!I would suggest trying barrio's outside Copa.You will find the people and the experiance much better.I met many friends and normal girls in other areas.The Copa has a bad rep. with the local people.
Hope this helps,have a good trip!
Trippleecks
09-29-05, 12:50
Royalflush
If you look in the newspapers, most of what you will find are UNFURNISHED apartments with owners asking for a 30 month lease and a fiador (co-signer).
Your best bet would be to try real estate agencies and see if they can help you with a furnished apartment.. Trying other Barrios (neighborhoods) other than Copacabana is not a good idea unless you are nearly fluent in Portuguese....
Royalflush
09-29-05, 13:25
Nodd_N & Pesos,
Thanks for your ideas. I do speak Portugese, but I'm not fluent--yet. Perhaps the best way is to check for sublet opportunities in the paper. That way, I can get around the 30-mo lease term.
This is the post that all the apartment agents who inhabit this board under multiple handles never wanted to see.
I live in a one bedroom penthouse with a view of Copacabna beach and the top of Sugar Loaf from my varanda. I pay R$1,200 a month. My deposit is two one hundred dollar bills to be returned to me when I leave. I checked out ads for Temporadas in O Globo and Jornal do Brasil but I found my apartment in Balcao.
In Rio, Balcao weekly newspaper has many ads under Imoveis, Temporada. Ads are free to sellers. The newspaper comes out on Saturdays but you can see ads for free on line at balcao.com
Avoid ads that offer more than one apartment as these will be from agents even though they say owner. This might seem to be difficult if you don’t speak Portugues but many of the real owner speak some English. Foreigners are considered excellent tenants compared with Brazilians who normally attempt to avoid paying their rent. Tip: if an ad mentions “fiador” just skip it.
You can set up appointments to see apartments before leaving for Brazil, but expect to spend a few days in a hotel while interviewing the owners.
Suburb -Maximo - Medio - Minimo
Ipanema 1250000 625000 240000
Leblon 1260000 642000 255000
Lagoa 1200000 545000 220000
Gavea 1100000 518000 230000
Urca 1000000 417000 180000
Jardin Botanico 1000000 437000 220000
Barra e Racreio 1100000 410000 150000
Copacabana e Leme 1050000 381000 165000
Flamengo e Catete 1000000 386000 185000
Laranjeiras e C Velho 750000 339000 165000
Botafogo e Humaita 560000 332000 175000
Ilha do Governador 500000 237000 55000
Tijuca e Rio Comprido 450000 191000 75000
Jacarepagua 300000 167000 55000
Meier e Lins 350000 159000 60000
Andarai e Grajau 360000 159000 57000
Madureira 230000 126000 40000
Centro 230000 127000 50000
The above table (sorry about the formating) was taken from OGlobo-16 Oct-05. It shows the maximum (maximo) price of an apartment sold in the area in the last month, the average (medio) and minimum (minimo). It is interestering in that the most expensive suburb in Rio has an average apartment price of USD$300,000. This would not qualify for an "average" suburb in a big western city. As a comparison, a good suburb in london. IE Chelsea has an average 3br apartment price of USD$2,000,000.
NB: Prices quoted in Reals and for a 3 bedroom apartment.
I have recently bought a 1 br apt in Leme.
Do your research, I researched properties ownership and laws for two yrs before I bought my property.
You had better be careful.
Remeber Brasil does not have property rights written in law and other Developed Countries.
I own my property until the Gov comes and takes it. You can talk to every lawyer or property owner you want but becareful.
I met with 12 people over 10 mos, on 4 trips to Brasil. It wasthe most horrible experience. Misinformation, peolple didn't show up for a business meeting and I have traveled to Brasil for this meeting. It was horrible.
I spent an extra US$3,000 just on hiring people and doting my i's and crossing my T's.
Do your research
Remember a contract means nothing in Brasil.
Exec Talent
10-22-05, 20:46
AMEX just called me to inform me that someone had stolen my credit card number and was charging large amounts at Lojas Americanas among other places. This is the second time that this has happened with a credit card in Rio. Be careful with your cards and check your charges online often.
While I didn't lose any money last time nor do I anticipate a problem this time, it is a hassle because they have to cancel the card and reissue a new one.
I was in Rio mid Sept. I was looking for a 2 bedroom apartment in Copa, checked the O Globo ads. I wanted a long term unfurnished apartment but only found furnished apartments. The owners were also only interested in renting short term and I also had difficulty meeting with them.
Checking the ads in Balcao also yields listings mostly for furnished apartments in Copa, short term. Lots of apartments for sale though.
I don't see too many ads for unfurnished apartments. Perhaps I'm not looking in the right place.
In Rio generally you find all temporary apartments in Copa. Most long term nonfurnished apartments are pretty much in all other areas. Only problem with these long term apartments is that you need someone to guarantee (fiador) you. This because once they rent the apartment to you with long term contract its next to impossible to get you out from that apartment even if you don't pay the rent. That's why owners want someone else to guarantee that they will get their money.
Anyway, I'd give up looking for an apartment in Copacabana and try Ipanema, Leblon, Lagoa, Humaita or Botafogo (if being close to Copa is essential). Also areas like Laranjeiras, Catete, Flamengo and Santa Teresa are pretty nice. Only the centro side of Santa Teresa might be a bit shady, not to mention areas that border with Lapa (loads of drugdealers in that area).
If distance is not an issue you could also take a look in Jacarepaqua. Again there you want to stay in neighbourhood closer to Barra da Tijuca. Other end borders with Cidade de Deus and I'd stay away from there.
Safest area by far is Barra da Tijuca, but again the distance is downside.
So where to find these apartments, look on Sunday papers, O Globo has probably the best selection.
Good luck with hunting.
P
Trippleecks
10-24-05, 11:35
Chingon, don't know exactly what you were looking at but O Globo is FULL of adds for UN-furnished apartments. As a matter of fact, it would not surprise me to learn that it was not 95% unfurnished apartment adds in O Globo..
Trippleecks
10-24-05, 11:38
Sunset ,, Can we get a bit more information on your penthouse please. Any photos or an address?? The address only, if you are no longer living there.. I'm sure you don't want any monger showing up unannounced..
I find it difficult to believe that you actually found a furnished penthouse for 1200 reais a month.
I was (am still) looking for a 2 bedroom unfurnished apartment. I return to Rio Nov 11 :) I'll go over the O Globo ads with a fine tooth comb when i get there.
Trippleecks
10-25-05, 11:11
Chingon....
try this now....best on Sundays..... remember that any prices you see usually DO NOT include Condo fees and taxes.........
the word Fiador means "Co-signer"
http://classificados.oglobo.com.br/ then click on aluguel under Imoveis 856...
You should be able to figure it out fine after that.............
I'm still living here. R1200 includes elec and gas. The price goes up R$200 Dec. thru Feb.
Yankee 617
10-25-05, 20:39
AMEX just called me to inform me that someone had stolen my credit card number and was charging large amounts at Lojas Americanas among other places. This is the second time that this has happened with a credit card in Rio. Be careful with your cards and check your charges online often.
While I didn't lose any money last time nor do I anticipate a problem this time, it is a hassle because they have to cancel the card and reissue a new one.I had this happen to me once. Someone got my CC number (not the card itself) when I was in the NorthEast and started making numerous outrageous charges (and several more commonplace charges) down in Rio. Fortunately, this started only a couple days before I returned to the US and I noticed the charges (and cancelled the card) quickly upon my return. Since I hadn't traveled to (or through) Rio on that trip, it was easier to identify most of the fraudulent charges (although a few were made in the NorthEast and were harder to distinguish from the valid charges). Although I paid for no fraudulent charges, it took a couple months to sort through all the paperwork.
I always make a habit of notifying my CC company of the dates I will be traveling (arrival and departure dates, times & cities) in Brasil before I go. That way I have fewer problems using the card when I'm there and, if any fraudulent charges appear outside my travel window, there is no question.
Thanks Nodd_N
i've been on O Globo's calssified site last 2 days. got some good leads.
Trippleecks
10-26-05, 11:53
Sunset ... got any photos of the place that you would care to share with us?
The bedroom also opens onto the varanda. I'm just high enough so that the neighbors can't see through the french doors.
I just mentioned my apartment as an example of the deals you can find if you take the time to look for yourself. The best method for me over the years has been going from portero to portero in the area I wanted to live. I once found a very large furnished two bedroom in the building above Balcony. If I mentioned how cheap it was any but the old timers would be certain that I'm a liar. I needed both a fiador and three month deposite for that one.
Trippleecks
10-27-05, 12:26
Sunset ... Maybe I missunderstood you before... Do you rent these apartments long term?? If you needed a 3 month deposit and a fiador on the last one, it sounds like you rent long term, not for just a week or so...
Nodd_N
The apartment that I am currently living in, pictured below, is rented as a temporada. I only signed a contract for the first month. The owner can kick me out whenever she wants. But, even though I have refused rent increases she keeps me because I always pay my rent on time without being asked.
The furnished apartment above Balcony was rented back in the eighties on a long term agreement. I remember the contract itself was eight pages long. I found it by talking to doormen all the way down Avenida Atlantica from the end of Leme.
Now a question for you Nodd_N. Are you a rental agent or associated with a rental agent?
Sunset:
ok, i understand the concept of a fiador, (co-signer.) where does one find one and what are the additional cost for his services? i've been told a fiador is needed for a long term apartment.
Sunset:
ok, i understand the concept of a fiador, (co-signer.) where does one find one and what are the additional cost for his services? i've been told a fiador is needed for a long term apartment.
Finding a Fiador is next to impossible. The whole consept is such that Fiador actually quarantees that you'll pay your rent. Fiador must be brasilian or a foreigner with permanent resident status and he must own his own apartment.
Basically it is so that your landlord can get unpaid rent and expenses from Fiador if you fail to pay.
If you do not know any brasilians who'd like to do this to you there is no way going around this.
P
El Austriaco
10-28-05, 17:24
I totally agree with Perkele, as I have also found it next to impossible to find a fiador in Brazil. And even if you do find a suitable one, people are VERY unwilling to act as a co-signor, probably because everyone I know who would serve as a fiador has gotten burnt before by friends who left them with unpaid rent. Tried to rent an apartment in a smaller town in Rio de Janeiro State this summer, and on several occasions, landlords wouldn't budge on the fiador requirement just because it's "the way things are done here". Very frustrating.
The only real way around it is to offer a three-month or longer security deposit and see whether that is acceptable. Of course, in that case, I'd make absolutely sure that this is considered a deposit and not some upfront cash for the landlord's inconvenience. In other words, I'd suggest to draw up a contract specifying that this deposit will be returned to you, possibly with interest, once you terminate the rental agreement. A real headache either way.
EA
Trippleecks
10-28-05, 20:21
Sunset, no I'm not..
just looking for something nice for myself... This next trip I will be there for 3 or 4 months, to practise my Portuguese, not to have 2 or 3 girls every day... I do need an internet connection though...
Am I correct that, given a carefully constructed contract, a fiador would not be necessary if you paid the entire amount of the rent (say 36 months worth) at the beginning of the lease?
Thanks
SD
I never had this problem. 2 yrs ago I was there for 3 mos. and I paid in advance and I had no problem.
No only did I have not problem, I also received a 5% discount and I got two canisters of propane fuel free.
Pay up front and you will have no problem, just as in the States.
I never had this problem. 2 yrs ago I was there for 3 mos. and I paid in advance and I had no problem.
No only did I have not problem, I also received a 5% discount and I got two canisters of propane fuel free.
Pay up front and you will have no problem, just as in the States.
Yeah, 3 months.
Let's see if I'm not wrong originally question was a long term apartment 2 - 3 years. You do need a fiador for those.
Dali as an answer to you I say that I wouldn't trust anyone with that kind of "deposit". Carioca will accept, but you'll be stuck with that apartment until the end of the contract. Also if something breaks, you'll never see repairs unless you fix them by yourself (and pay of course).
Sometimes you might be lucky to find an apartment w/o fiador requirement, but those are rare. Being gringo doesn't help either.
P
I would not lend my word for someont to rent an apartment, and I don't think anyone should ask such a demand from someone.
I won't co-sign here in the States for te same reason. People work to hard for the good word (their credit).
Thats a huge favor to ask anyone if you don't know them.
They become just as responsible for the object as you. So please consider why people would say no to this.
El Austriaco
10-31-05, 07:29
Am I correct that, given a carefully constructed contract, a fiador would not be necessary if you paid the entire amount of the rent (say 36 months worth) at the beginning of the lease?
Not really sure whether you meant to say 3 to 6 months or really 36, but I'll address both cases. Perkele already said that, yes, for three months (i.e. a short-term rental, probably furnished), you can pay everything upfront, and things should be cool. This summer when I was in Rio, the manager of the hotel I stay at offered me a smallish furnished 1 BR in Copacabana on Barata Ribeiro at 1500 Reais, and since he knows me well, for any period of time from a week to several months, no security deposit required. So this is definitely possible.
But paying upfront for a full three years? Let's see, let's assume something like 500 bucks a month, which isn't all that much given the weak dollar, that would mean a whopping 18K... you see my point.
What I was talking about, as Perkele also has pointed out, was a run-of-the-mill rental of an apartment like anywhere else in the world. As far as I can see, there are two major concerns for a landlord anywhere in the world:
1. Can you afford the rent and will you pay it on time? That's where in the US, credit checks, proof of employment, pay slips, and references of former landlords come in. Plus possibly last month's rent, in some cases.
2. Will you trash the place while you're there? That's where the security deposit comes in (plus again, references of former landlords).
For a Brazilian landlord, everything that I listed under 1 or 2 for a US landlord somehow doesn't seem to work all that well, for numerous reasons that would be too lengthy to explain here, and that's why so many simply ask for a fiador, i.e. a co-signor. Somebody who is solvent, local, and has too much too lose not to bail you out in case you are unable to make rent or just happen to destroy the place. That's what works for them.
So the problem for someone like me who comes to Brazil and wants to rent a place (long-term, unfurnished) is simply that what works for the landlord (fiador) is just not feasible for me (because I don't know anyone, let alone someone who actually could or would be willing to act as my fiador). Where I live now, in Mexico, it's the same deal, but I got around it because my cousin lives here in the same city, is married to a Mexican, has two kids, owns her house, her husband is a college professor, and they both agreed to be my fiador. In Brazil, I don't have that luxury.
So, considering that I don't have what a landlord commonly wants, I have to look for a creative solution for providing him with the same or additional security as described above under 1 and 2 in a way that I can actually provide. That's why I would simply talk to the landlord and say, hey, I am a foreigner, I don't know many people here, I don't have a fiador, but I understand your concern about me not paying rent or trashing your place. Let's do this. I give you three (six) months security deposit, so no worries that I am just gonna take off with rent unpaid and leave your place in shambles...
Wave the cash in his face.. which might do wonders. And then, I think that every reasonable landlord should understand that 1. I do have the financial resources, so there's little chance that I can't afford the place month-to-month, and 2. he has enough financial backup to make any repairs should this be necessary once I vacate the premises. I think.
And as I said, the only problem I can foresee with such an arrangement is that once I leave, I never see my security deposit again, so that's why it's important to document all of this in writing, and probably even better to have it drawn up by an attorney. In a worst case scenario, I stay in a place for, say, three years or longer, and I don't get back 3 months worth of security deposit. Not pleasant, but not the end of the world. 6 months? Damn. But 18K? A different story, at least for me.
To answer your question, would a fiador not be necessary given a carefully constructed contract if you paid the entire amount of the rent at the beginning of the lease? I'd say in that case, the landlord is probably gonna party for a few months and wouldn't even want a contract. But seriously, who knows. This is contract law, and the two parties (the landlord and the tenant) are perfectly free to agree on whatever terns they want (subject to certain legal restrictions, but I am not a lawyer). Somebody can rent you a place just on the way you look without demanding any securities, others might put out exorbitant demands. It makes sense to me that if you pay everything upfront, people would very likely not require a fiador, but then again, will every single landlord accept it? No. I have seen it happen on more than one occasion.
I don't have to caution you about the risks of paying everything upfront in Brazil, though. Others have already done that, and I agree with them. What goes for GDPs goes for landlords, too. Or even more so. You might just really get nailed here.
EA
JoshJosh69
11-13-05, 15:22
I need to find someone who knows a dermatologist in Rio. I will be coming down soon and want to buy some cheaper Brasilian supplies for one of my cosmetic machines. Any help would be appreciated.
The fiador issue
Pay me a fee and I'll find you a place for 6mos and you will not need a signer.
But I need a fee and I will be in Brazil Nov 30 - Dec 29
I'm serioous
James Howard
11-13-05, 21:45
Pay me a fee and I'll find you a place for 6mos and you will not need a signer.
But I need a fee and I will be in Brazil Nov 30 - Dec 29
Here is my Visa Info:
Name: James Howard
Card #6969-6969-6969-6969
Exp date: 09/2009
3-digit security #123
Don't use the forum for solicitation.
Regarding apartments, I saw that paying your entire stay in advance was mentioned as an alternative to a fiador. If you are trying to get a decent apartment for an extended time, make monthly payments so you don't pay it all when the real is at it's strongest. Sometime in the coming months, the currency is going to have to drop at least somewhat in response to lower rates.
The fiador issue
The fiador issue
Pay me a fee and I'll find you a place for 6mos and you will not need a signer.
But I need a fee and I will be in Brazil Nov 30 - Dec 29
I'm serioous
My offer stands
who's he?
I can tell you what he is not. He is not someone that has made close to 300 useless posts.
I can tell u I find my post 2 be informative.
I wil be there the 29th ,, I will appresiate any help..
Thanks a lot.
Dealdo
can anyone tell me what the situation is regarding drivers licenses in brazil??. i might want to move there this coming december for 3 months and i NEED to have a drivers license that i can use over there cos its soo big!!..
i currently dont own a drivers license here in europe, would it be possible to get a drivers license down there as a foreighner??, just by doing it there??..
Dutch Boy,
No chance if you do not have a drivers license from your country. If you do you can just get an international driving license if it is mercosul then you will have no problem driving in Brazil, except for the horrible roads, crazy drivers, and police who will be looking for money.
Are you planning on renting a car ? not cheap for 3 months. If you are planning to buy a car ... it is not possible legally without a RNE or it is Called RNG , How are you going to register the car?
Buses or airplanes and taxis... seems to be your only legal option.
Btw, I have driven from Sao paulo to the NE twice.. highways are horrible!!!!
enjoy Brazil
thanxx very much for this, but iam well versed in illigal methotes of transportation so iam sure i can figure out something :-))
I was watching some police this morning near Big Nectar, not the normal group, just 3-4 this time. And then like a bolt a lightning, it hit me. These guys are smart.
OK, here is my theory.
The more they can get together, standing, chatting in large groups, the more crime will occur, as they are really busy standing in large groups every 5 blocks. With more crime, the city residents will plead with the mayor to get more police, ...and have you figured it out yet?
These guys get to have more friends on the force to chat and drink coffee with. Could even lead to overtime.
Fucking Brilliant!!!
I personally have never had a problem of any kind in Rio, or ever seen a crime, but in relation to the police, my friends and associates here do not trust them at all.
Member #1461
02-17-06, 00:48
Hi there,
I have a question about marriage to a Brasilian citizen, and this seems to be the appropriate forum to ask.
When marrying a Brasilian citizen, how much time does it take (roughly) to get a full Brasilian citizenship (not a residency but a full citizenship) , and is this citizenship PERMANENT and identical in all ways to a normal Brasilian-Born citizenship ?
In the case of a later DIVORCE from the Brasilian citizen you married, do you get to keep your citizenship after you divorce her, is it yours for life once you have obtained it no matter what you do later ?
Thanks,
Greg.
Unforgiven
03-16-06, 04:12
I would like to add some info about rentals in Brazil.
Basically, the reason why landlords ask for "fiadores" is that Brazilian laws protect debtors, not creditors. If you rent an apartment and don't pay the rent, the owner will have big troubles to get you out of the house: he needs a judicial order, which may take years. They accept as fiadores only people they know that would rather to pay the debts, instead of going to Justice.
Brazilian legislation treats differently rentals for periods shorter than 3 months; these are considered "aluguel por temporada" (season rentals), and the landlords have more power over the tenants. For example, in short term rentals, you may be obliged by the contract to pay in advance; for long term rentals (over 3 months), it's illegal to charge in advance. That's why you won't see many people offering short term rentals for more than 3 months.
How to avoid the need of fiadores? Where I live, in the Northeast, there is an option for an "rental insurance": you deposit a few months of rental (usually three, but depends on the agreement with the landlord) with the realtors which manage the apartment; after the rental is over, the owner checks out the apartment, deducts any money necessary to fix it, and authorizes the realtors to give the balance back to you.
I may have written something inaccurate. Check out with major "imobiliárias" to get more info.
Unforgiven
03-16-06, 04:20
You won't get a citizenship only by marrying a Brazilian citizen.
If you marry a Brazilian citizen, and meet other conditions, you may be given a permanent visa; this means that you will be allowed to stay in Brazil for as long as you want, and look for jobs (tourists have a limit of time they can stay per year).
To become a citizen, other conditions apply (one which comes to mind is a minimum period of living in Brazil, a few years at least).
As far as I know, the only advantage of becoming a citizen is that you gain political rights (vote and being voted); otherwise, the permanent visa will be just as good.
Member #1461
03-16-06, 22:59
Thank you for your reply.
Do you know if 5 years of living as a permanent resident in brasil will be enough to acquire a full citizenship, do you know of any foreigners who managed to acquire the citizenship after a period of time, and how many years did it take them ?
Also, can a permanant residency be revoked after a divorce from a brasilian citizenship and/or after a period of time of not living in brasil but abroad ? is it limited in time for a set amount of years to begin with ?
Thank you.
Now my contracts of 89 days make more sense, I was wondering why the limit of 89 days per contract.
Thank you for the good info.
IBZ
QUOTE=Unforgiven]I would like to add some info about rentals in Brazil.
Basically, the reason why landlords ask for "fiadores" is that Brazilian laws protect debtors, not creditors. If you rent an apartment and don't pay the rent, the owner will have big troubles to get you out of the house: he needs a judicial order, which may take years. They accept as fiadores only people they know that would rather to pay the debts, instead of going to Justice.
Brazilian legislation treats differently rentals for periods shorter than 3 months; these are considered "aluguel por temporada" (season rentals), and the landlords have more power over the tenants. For example, in short term rentals, you may be obliged by the contract to pay in advance; for long term rentals (over 3 months), it's illegal to charge in advance. That's why you won't see many people offering short term rentals for more than 3 months.
How to avoid the need of fiadores? Where I live, in the Northeast, there is an option for an "rental insurance": you deposit a few months of rental (usually three, but depends on the agreement with the landlord) with the realtors which manage the apartment; after the rental is over, the owner checks out the apartment, deducts any money necessary to fix it, and authorizes the realtors to give the balance back to you.
I may have written something inaccurate. Check out with major "imobiliárias" to get more info.[/QUOTE]
Exec Talent
03-17-06, 23:04
the law, hot dogs and Feijoada should not see it being made.
For reasons which are beyond the scope of this post, I decided that I would make Feijoada especially since I had seen "Feijoada Helper" at my local Rio supermarket. Actually, it was labeled "ingredients for Feijoada" and was in the meat section. I prepare the beans, garlic and get ready to add the meat. Bacon - that's cool. Sausage - so far, so good. Pork tenderloin - I like that. Pork rind - little flavoring, what the heck. Then, just as I get to the bottom of the bag I reach in and pull out something hard. Pig's foot. A quite handsome one I might add. BTW, most of it disolves during the cooking process, so you really don't know it is in there.
I did ask the Chef at my local restaurant if he used pig's feet in his Feijoada and he said today no, but come back tomorrow!
The Watcher
03-18-06, 03:05
the law, hot dogs and Feijoada should not see it being made.
For reasons which are beyond the scope of this post, I decided that I would make Feijoada especially since I had seen "Feijoada Helper" at my local Rio supermarket. Actually, it was labeled "ingredients for Feijoada" and was in the meat section. I prepare the beans, garlic and get ready to add the meat. Bacon - that's cool. Sausage - so far, so good. Pork tenderloin - I like that. Pork rind - little flavoring, what the heck. Then, just as I get to the bottom of the bag I reach in and pull out something hard. Pig's foot. A quite handsome one I might add. BTW, most of it disolves during the cooking process, so really don't know it is in there.
I did ask the Chef at my local restaurant if he used pig's feet in his Feijoada and he said today no, but come back tomorrow!Pig's feet are a southern delicacy as well as ham hocks and neckbones. I also assume you have never had chitlings either (I am from the south but I don't eat that lol)
Unforgiven
03-25-06, 13:20
Feijoada was created by the slaves. Farm owners consumed the best parts of pork, and sent the left overs to the slaves.
Feijoada contains not only feet, but also nose (do pig have noses?) and tails. Some restaurants offer feijoada in pieces: each pot contains specific pieces (rib, sausage, feet, etc), and the client takes only what he likes. Truly appreciators of feijoada take everything.
I really don't know much about naturalization. My father immigrated 50 years ago, and is still a foreigner.
I believe that the first step is the permanent visa; then a few years living in Brazil without any misconduct; then a long bureaucratic fight.
Holders of permanent visa must stay a minimum period in Brazil per year. Many other factors may cause a visa to be revoked (including divorce). However, I think that having a Brazilian offspring is a solid way to keep a permanent visa.
Member #4732
04-04-06, 23:18
yes, i have read numerous posts about needing a lawyer to do a background check on any title. Got that.
What I have not read is what is the price range for apartments in Sampa? I saw a list of prices for Rio that were surprisingly high. Does anyone have any estimates on Sampa. I am familiar with most of the neighborhoods, so I understand (to some degree) location factors.
I talked to a Brazilian flight attendant about a year ago and he told me he had paid 20K for his apartment. No idea how good or bad his place is, but he is based in New York so I assume he has reasonable standards.
thanks in advance.
Member #4732
04-05-06, 22:49
i guess i can partly answer my own question. I don't know what that flight attendant was referring to. Maybe he bought the apartment 5 or 10 years ago, but 20,000 seems extraordinarily low from what I see. Unless he was talking about kitchenettes which I see in liberdade for 10K to 25K US.
Looking at the site http://www.planetaimovel.com/
Lofts in Itaim bibi range from 100K to 200K range.
As anybody tried this services? I do use it extensively...
It can be really economic to call to and from Brasil from many countries all around the world.
After the trial just a little fee to sign-in and to continue using its service.
I hope is a good new for way to be in contact with your 'namorada in Brazil.
http://www.voipdiscount.com/en/rates.html
http://www.voipstunt.com/en/rates.html
The two services are based on the same project but have different rates in differen countries, with the second Brazil is not free.
Give it a try.
Turf Builder
04-09-06, 17:17
your namorada in brazil has to have high speed internet connection to use voip, correct? mine does not have high speed. i doubt that many brazilians have high speed. skype is another site.
i use viapin.com to call brazil. really low rates.
turf builder
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